> 2533274942655628;7:
> Your post is all over the place. You talk about balance but say sprint as an AA was fine? AAs period is a rock papers scissors deal but the thing is…IT’S WAS MENT TO. It all about strategy, strengths and weakness. Agree or not halo 4 actually balanced AAs unlike reach
>
> You claim sprint is now pointless rights? Do you not listen to the pro sprint threads? Every one of them say the same thing which makes this thread invalid. I not gonna repeat it as it’s been said 1000 times. Sprint is fine and doesnt break gameplay.
My post is well laid out and not “all over the place”. Perhaps if you made more sense in yours I would understand your point but as it stands I can not.
I mentioned it was meant to be rock-paper-scissors in reach. So perhaps you are using a translator and don’t comprehend what I am saying in the OP? And Halo 4 hardly balanced them anymore than Reach. Being a new game they just took out what people complained about the most and turned sprint into default ability all the while adding a couple useless ones.
And yes I read pro sprint arguments and even if they’re all saying the same thing that hardly matters nor does it make the opinion right. If everyone against sprint said the same things (a lot do) does that suddenly make them right?
Also I highly disagree that sprint doesn’t break gameplay just as much as I disagree with it having a use. I saw how AA’s broke gameplay and I didn’t say they were balanced just that sprint was implimented in a superior fashion in Reach when it was left as an AA. Having sprint as an ability that everyone uses is redundant. The map sizes can simply stay smaller with no sprint and we’d achieve the same times to power weapons roughly.
> 2533274813583846;1:
> In summary if Armor Abilities are not Halo as many believe than we need to realize sprint is but an aging cog in an entire system of gears that have stopped functioning for their intended purpose. It only offered a true gameplay enhancer as a tactical choice over other options to tackle a match in a different way each time and fight for map control. Now that we have moved on from AA’s we MUST move on from sprint as well as over bloated map sizes until the day comes when 343 has properly tweaked AA’s and equipment and is ready to reintroduce them in a way that does not fault core gunplay. (THEY SHOULD RETURN AS CUSTOM GAME OPTIONS AND FORGE OBJECTS TO PLACE REGARDLESS!)
This is almost exactly what I said about Thruster Pack. In fact, the same APPLIES to Thruster Pack…
As much as I enjoy Halo 5 gameplay (for the moment that is) I can’t stop asking myself the question: AA’s couldn’t be permanently integrated into Reach’s gameplay, so why should they work better in Halo 5? Is Halo 5 that different from Reach? What has changed SO much since then, that we simply cannot do without Thruster Pack and Sprint in Halo’s formula?
What about the Needler, Plasma Pistol, Fuel Rod Gun, Storm Rifle/Plasma Rifle etc. How will they be effective in Halo 5 with default Thruster Pack on? I guarantee they will miss at least 2 to 5 shots, and while that isn’t much, it’s enough to get yourself killed 1 on 1.
> 2732317809651779;6:
> > 2533274797884886;4:
> > > 2533274896651902;3:
> > > No sprint= Lore breaking. No need 4 that. No h8.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sprint has no bearing on lore.
>
>
> You’re right. Because in the future moving on foot at over 4mph is outlawed. Even in a warzone where running might be appropriate it is still totally unacceptable. All that stuff about Kelly being the fastest Spartan and this being her most useful asset was just in there as a joke.
The way to look at it is simply pressing up full tilt on your stick IS “sprinting”. Just because some other game has it so you cannot shoot as you move with a button press doesn’t make it sprinting in every case.
First point; lore shouldn’t have a place in competitive multiplayer. Neither Walshy, Strongside, Ghosty, or Bravo cared about the lore when they stepped onto the mainstage. Second, you failed to mention the issues that were present with Sprint in Reach or fundamentally. Not that you’re wrong. Just playing devil’s advocate.
> 2533274857209865;14:
> First point; lore shouldn’t have a place in competitive multiplayer. Neither Walshy, Strongside, Ghosty, or Bravo cared about the lore when they stepped onto the mainstage. Second, you failed to mention the issues that were present with Sprint in Reach or fundamentally. Not that you’re wrong. Just playing devil’s advocate.
Oh I don’t care about multi lore at all actually. I don’t know if it seems that way in my OP but I simply care about game mechanics.
And the only reason I didn’t open up about why sprint was flawed in Reach is because looking back about why it failed as an AA in 2010 for a game that was intended to play differently than the usual halo is sort of irrelevent for a differing sprint mechanic that now alters gameplay radically in it’s own way two titles later. Plus my post was too large as is I needed to stay focused on a few main points.
They’re super soldiers that have been trained to fight in armor. I think they’d know how to run a little faster than a brisk jog. Besides, I’ve always found that Halo needed sprint. I’m glad it’s in Halo 5, and I hope to see it in future Halo titles as well!
> 2535460843083983;11:
> > 2533274813583846;1:
> > In summary if Armor Abilities are not Halo as many believe than we need to realize sprint is but an aging cog in an entire system of gears that have stopped functioning for their intended purpose. It only offered a true gameplay enhancer as a tactical choice over other options to tackle a match in a different way each time and fight for map control. Now that we have moved on from AA’s we MUST move on from sprint as well as over bloated map sizes until the day comes when 343 has properly tweaked AA’s and equipment and is ready to reintroduce them in a way that does not fault core gunplay. (THEY SHOULD RETURN AS CUSTOM GAME OPTIONS AND FORGE OBJECTS TO PLACE REGARDLESS!)
>
>
> This is almost exactly what I said about Thruster Pack. In fact, the same APPLIES to Thruster Pack…
>
> As much as I enjoy Halo 5 gameplay (for the moment that is) I can’t stop asking myself the question: AA’s couldn’t be permanently integrated into Reach’s gameplay, so why should they work better in Halo 5? Is Halo 5 that different from Reach? What has changed SO much since then, that we simply cannot do without Thruster Pack and Sprint in Halo’s formula?
>
> What about the Needler, Plasma Pistol, Fuel Rod Gun, Storm Rifle/Plasma Rifle etc. How will they be effective in Halo 5 with default Thruster Pack on? I guarantee they will miss at least 2 to 5 shots, and while that isn’t much, it’s enough to get yourself killed 1 on 1.
>
> Notice how the beta has no Covenant weapons…
They work better in halo 5 because they are more effective and are integrated within every spartan as EQUAL STARTS. You seem to overlook the basic fundamentals of the actual game itself that made halo what it is. Halo 5 IS that different from reach, hence the different developers what kind of stupid question is that? Maps perfectly suit these abilities because they are considered into the game and even though maps are a little expanded for the sake of these abilities, they still play the same. Also you will miss shots with all the new abilities regardless of what weapon you use. So adapt or die, plain and simple. The lightrifle has returned so I figure there will still be covenant weapons.
> 2533274968707582;17:
> > 2535460843083983;11:
> > > 2533274813583846;1:
> > > In summary if Armor Abilities are not Halo as many believe than we need to realize sprint is but an aging cog in an entire system of gears that have stopped functioning for their intended purpose. It only offered a true gameplay enhancer as a tactical choice over other options to tackle a match in a different way each time and fight for map control. Now that we have moved on from AA’s we MUST move on from sprint as well as over bloated map sizes until the day comes when 343 has properly tweaked AA’s and equipment and is ready to reintroduce them in a way that does not fault core gunplay. (THEY SHOULD RETURN AS CUSTOM GAME OPTIONS AND FORGE OBJECTS TO PLACE REGARDLESS!)
> >
> >
> >
> > This is almost exactly what I said about Thruster Pack. In fact, the same APPLIES to Thruster Pack…
> >
> > As much as I enjoy Halo 5 gameplay (for the moment that is) I can’t stop asking myself the question: AA’s couldn’t be permanently integrated into Reach’s gameplay, so why should they work better in Halo 5? Is Halo 5 that different from Reach? What has changed SO much since then, that we simply cannot do without Thruster Pack and Sprint in Halo’s formula?
> >
> > What about the Needler, Plasma Pistol, Fuel Rod Gun, Storm Rifle/Plasma Rifle etc. How will they be effective in Halo 5 with default Thruster Pack on? I guarantee they will miss at least 2 to 5 shots, and while that isn’t much, it’s enough to get yourself killed 1 on 1.
> >
> > Notice how the beta has no Covenant weapons…
>
>
> They work better in halo 5 because they are more effective and are integrated within every spartan as EQUAL STARTS. You seem to overlook the basic fundamentals of the actual game itself that made halo what it is. Halo 5 IS that different from reach, hence the different developers what kind of stupid question is that? Maps perfectly suit these abilities because they are considered into the game and even though maps are a little expanded for the sake of these abilities, they still play the same. Also you will miss shots with all the new abilities regardless of what weapon you use. So adapt or die, plain and simple. The lightrifle has returned so I figure there will still be covenant weapons.
Have you ever thought that Plasma Pistol might be heavily buffed to compensate for faster movement making for a weapon that instantly zaps anything that isn’t flying around at high speed?
The ssme can be said of the needler.
How will Plasma Rifle factor in? Slow projectiles that do high damage (the way it should be) won’t work.
Fuel rod cannons will be removed for being useless and redundant I suppose. The covy weps will be mostly removed and/or tweaked.
I don’t think using Reach as an anchor for your argument is very effective. As it stands, it’s common knowledge that Reach was a project pushed out after Bungie stopped giving a -Yoink- about Halo all together.
Additionally, rock paper scissors isn’t a good metaphor either. It suggests that in a game of skill > all, that there are obvious counters that can’t be beat by their inferior. Which simply isn’t true.
Making sprint universal isn’t necessarily bad, in a game of skill, are you skilled enough to hit someone running away? Or are you going to let them slip through your fingers? Sprint isn’t only going to be used as an escape mechanism either as people keep suggesting. It’s both offensive and defensive. And it offers utility to people of all playstyles. Are you familiar with the ‘fight or flight’ response? Depending on how a persons brain is wired to react and assess a situation will determine how the will utilize this ability.
Honestly, the only, only, reason I keep seeing regurgitated is this whole CoD fascination. “CoD has Sprint, CoD has ADS, CoD has etc… stop making Halo into CoD.” News flash, all those things didn’t originate in CoD either.
> 2661949065475413;19:
> Honestly, the only, only, reason I keep seeing regurgitated is this whole CoD fascination. “CoD has Sprint, CoD has ADS, CoD has etc… stop making Halo into CoD.” News flash, all those things didn’t originate in CoD either.
Actually, it’s because modern first person shooters popularized things such as sprint and ADS - which is why CoD has turned into a tool for such arguments because it is the classic example of a modern first person shooter. Yes, there are others (Battlefield for example), but CoD’s release schedule frequency is so high that it’s practically universally known, hence why it’s used as a butt for the anti-sprint and anti-ADS arguments.
> 2533274942655628;7:
> Your post is all over the place. You talk about balance but say sprint as an AA was fine? AAs period is a rock papers scissors deal but the thing is…IT’S WAS MENT TO. It all about strategy, strengths and weakness. Agree or not halo 4 actually balanced AAs unlike reach
>
> You claim sprint is now pointless rights? Do you not listen to the pro sprint threads? Every one of them say the same thing which makes this thread invalid. I not gonna repeat it as it’s been said 1000 times. Sprint is fine and doesnt break gameplay.
The pro-Sprint arguments are poorly thought-out, illogical, and asinine. The only reason you are not going to repeat them because you are afraid they will be countered, just like they were four years ago.
Sprint does break gameplay, read the Sprint threads on Team Beyond and then tell me that it does not.
> 2661949065475413;19:
> I don’t think using Reach as an anchor for your argument is very effective. As it stands, it’s common knowledge that Reach was a project pushed out after Bungie stopped giving a -Yoink- about Halo all together.
>
> Additionally, rock paper scissors isn’t a good metaphor either. It suggests that in a game of skill > all, that there are obvious counters that can’t be beat by their inferior. Which simply isn’t true.
>
> Making sprint universal isn’t necessarily bad, in a game of skill, are you skilled enough to hit someone running away? Or are you going to let them slip through your fingers? Sprint isn’t only going to be used as an escape mechanism either as people keep suggesting. It’s both offensive and defensive. And it offers utility to people of all playstyles. Are you familiar with the ‘fight or flight’ response? Depending on how a persons brain is wired to react and assess a situation will determine how the will utilize this ability.
>
> Honestly, the only, only, reason I keep seeing regurgitated is this whole CoD fascination. “CoD has Sprint, CoD has ADS, CoD has etc… stop making Halo into CoD.” News flash, all those things didn’t originate in CoD either.
I disagree with your sentiment that Bungie didn’t care about Reach. Did I hate Reach? Yes. But it sure as hell allowed me to play it with longevity and there were still new things in the game along side some really great improvements over Halo 3 such as forge or file share search.
Couldn’t even properly get into H4 and I tried like all hell. Halo 5 atm feels the same way to me from the beta.
My rock paper scissors metaphor is simply implying advantages and disadvantages to a choice in your AA load out. Being there are many load outs and many gametyped that suit them differently it doesn’t come down to jetpack beats sprint and sprint beats armor lock. I know.
Making sprint universal ISN’T inheritantly bad. I agree but it is bad for Halo. Further more speaking of fight or flight if someone chooses to sprint out of an engagement right away why does my skill just factor in if I was only able to pull off x amount of trigger squeezes by the time s/he decided to dip out? People COULD escape encounters before (chasing kills in Halo is a risk vs reward situation and more often is too much risk) and with sprint it is only further complicated by being forced to put my weapon down and sprint after someone around corners and such into unknown situations just to keep up. That is NOT inheritantly Halo. The real option is to not chase. So that leaves the finality being that sprint creates a larger risk for the winning fighter in a skirmish to finish his kills. The other finality is you don’t have to hug walls to escape like previously. You can engage more out in the open and still get to safety in time. Disallowing shields to regenerate doesn’t stop people from running they’ll just keep running until they get to their team mates now.
If anti-sprint arguments are regurgitated non-sense stemming from “its from cod”. Then pro-sprint arguments are nothing more than “spartans should sprint because I feel slow”.
To be honest, I totally agree with your points. With sprint you can speed up gameplay or slow it down depending on how you choose to play. (Passively/Aggressively)
That’s not the main reason I dislike sprint though in this game. It’s really just because I don’t think thrusters and sprint should exist. In fact, I think adding mobility not only allows people to play how they way to (fast/slow) but it also adds a skill gap by allowing greater skilled players to evade. Although, I think both sprint and thrusters did not effectively utilize the evade method.
Evading should be an escape, and you shouldn’t be able to retaliate while evading. What I’m trying to say is, in Halo Reach there was an armor ability called Evade. It added a proper skill gap (assuming there was a larger cooldown) by not allowing you to shoot at your opponent while in an evade, and making it proper for escapes while not being too overpowered as a long-long-long distance sprint over time, and not as unbalanced as allowing you to shoot while thrusterpacking. Halo 4’s thruster at least had it right, you couldn’t shoot at the same time. Both sprint and thrusters seem unfavorable to me. Both are overpowered or wrong in their own ways.
I think Halo 5 should have either Short distance (with >7 second cooldown) Thruster/Evade without the ability to shoot during the process
OR Nothing at all.
> 2533274813583846;22:
> > 2661949065475413;19:
> > I don’t think using Reach as an anchor for your argument is very effective. As it stands, it’s common knowledge that Reach was a project pushed out after Bungie stopped giving a -Yoink- about Halo all together.
> >
> > Additionally, rock paper scissors isn’t a good metaphor either. It suggests that in a game of skill > all, that there are obvious counters that can’t be beat by their inferior. Which simply isn’t true.
> >
> > Making sprint universal isn’t necessarily bad, in a game of skill, are you skilled enough to hit someone running away? Or are you going to let them slip through your fingers? Sprint isn’t only going to be used as an escape mechanism either as people keep suggesting. It’s both offensive and defensive. And it offers utility to people of all playstyles. Are you familiar with the ‘fight or flight’ response? Depending on how a persons brain is wired to react and assess a situation will determine how the will utilize this ability.
> >
> > Honestly, the only, only, reason I keep seeing regurgitated is this whole CoD fascination. “CoD has Sprint, CoD has ADS, CoD has etc… stop making Halo into CoD.” News flash, all those things didn’t originate in CoD either.
>
>
>
> I disagree with your sentiment that Bungie didn’t care about Reach. Did I hate Reach? Yes. But it sure as hell allowed me to play it with longevity and there were still new things in the game along side some really great improvements over Halo 3 such as forge or file share search.
> Couldn’t even properly get into H4 and I tried like all hell. Halo 5 atm feels the same way to me from the beta.
>
> My rock paper scissors metaphor is simply implying advantages and disadvantages to a choice in your AA load out. Being there are many load outs and many gametyped that suit them differently it doesn’t come down to jetpack beats sprint and sprint beats armor lock. I know.
>
> Making sprint universal ISN’T inheritantly bad. I agree but it is bad for Halo. Further more speaking of fight or flight if someone chooses to sprint out of an engagement right away why does my skill just factor in if I was only able to pull off x amount of trigger squeezes by the time s/he decided to dip out? People COULD escape encounters before (chasing kills in Halo is a risk vs reward situation and more often is too much risk) and with sprint it is only further complicated by being forced to put my weapon down and sprint after someone around corners and such into unknown situations just to keep up. That is NOT inheritantly Halo. The real option is to not chase. So that leaves the finality being that sprint creates a larger risk for the winning fighter in a skirmish to finish his kills. The other finality is you don’t have to hug walls to escape like previously. You can engage more out in the open and still get to safety in time. Disallowing shields to regenerate doesn’t stop people from running they’ll just keep running until they get to their team mates now.
>
> If anti-sprint arguments are regurgitated non-sense stemming from “its from cod”. Then pro-sprint arguments are nothing more than “spartans should sprint because I feel slow”.
Bungie outsourced everything after the release of Reach. They never personally touched the game again after it launched. They put it out, fulfilled their contractual obligations, and dipped. They put so little effort into it that the story line is all over the place, and doesn’t make sense at all. As a stand alone it is fine, but it does not fit into the chronology of the Halo universe AT ALL. You want to bash on 343i? Bungie was the first to make ‘Halo not Halo.’
How much of the beta did you actually play? Because you give off this sense that sprint is some sort of unstoppable escape mechanic, when it isn’t. You don’t recharge shields when sprinting, and after sprinting the recharge delay is further increased. Not to mention bullet stagger will break a sprint. If you shot your target successfully, they would not be capable of sprinting.
You put yourself in these ridiculous scenarios where you are the only person on your team and your target will always run to their team for support. Where is your team support? If you play as a lone wolf, you have no one to blame but yourself if you fall into a baited trap.
Additionally, saying that all pro sprint arguments boil down to “Spartans should sprint because I feel slow” just shows how narrow minded you can be. I never once said I felt slow. And although, you didn’t mention CoD personally, 3/4 of your argument was tied directly to Reach and loadouts which I had already touched upon here and in my original post.
> 2732317809651779;6:
> > 2533274797884886;4:
> > > 2533274896651902;3:
> > > No sprint= Lore breaking. No need 4 that. No h8.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sprint has no bearing on lore.
>
>
>
> You’re right. Because in the future moving on foot at over 4mph is outlawed. Even in a warzone where running might be appropriate it is still totally unacceptable. All that stuff about Kelly being the fastest Spartan and this being her most useful asset was just in there as a joke.
In other words:
“Going to use the lore as an argument only when it’s convenient”.
“Sprint is the only way to increase movement speed”
Lore only comes up when it’s convenient. I mean, shouldn’t spartans be close to invurnerable to ballistic weapons, even from their armor only? Throw in the energy shielding and you have a mess when talking plasma weapons. What does the energy shielding absorb actually? Kinetic energy only? Shouldn’t plasma then just stop and fall to the ground and burn there? If it’s all kinds of harming energy, shouldn’t either one plasma bolt from any plasma weapon strip your shields? I’d say that they have faar more energy than a simple bullet only having kinetic energy. Or, kinetic bullets shouldn’t do squat against the energy shields as they can withstand several plasma bolts.
It’s also amazing that if the basic movement speed previously ever was a problem, sprint is the only solution. Not say, increasing the base movement speed and/or increase FoV.
> 2533274806427910;21:
> > 2533274942655628;7:
> > Your post is all over the place. You talk about balance but say sprint as an AA was fine? AAs period is a rock papers scissors deal but the thing is…IT’S WAS MENT TO. It all about strategy, strengths and weakness. Agree or not halo 4 actually balanced AAs unlike reach
> >
> > You claim sprint is now pointless rights? Do you not listen to the pro sprint threads? Every one of them say the same thing which makes this thread invalid. I not gonna repeat it as it’s been said 1000 times. Sprint is fine and doesnt break gameplay.
>
>
> The pro-Sprint arguments are poorly thought-out, illogical, and asinine. The only reason you are not going to repeat them because you are afraid they will be countered, just like they were four years ago.
>
> Sprint does break gameplay, read the Sprint threads on Team Beyond and then tell me that it does not.
Attack the argument, not the man. Don’t try to disguise Ad Hominem as an argument m80.
There is a fatal flaw in your argument, Sprint does not “break” gameplay. Have you seen Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5: Guardians footage? The gameplay is not broken and functions correctly.
I could state that your arguments are poorly thought out and illogical without elaborating, but we wouldn’t get anywhere with that, would we?
> 2533274878211546;26:
> > 2533274806427910;21:
> > > 2533274942655628;7:
> > > Your post is all over the place. You talk about balance but say sprint as an AA was fine? AAs period is a rock papers scissors deal but the thing is…IT’S WAS MENT TO. It all about strategy, strengths and weakness. Agree or not halo 4 actually balanced AAs unlike reach
> > >
> > > You claim sprint is now pointless rights? Do you not listen to the pro sprint threads? Every one of them say the same thing which makes this thread invalid. I not gonna repeat it as it’s been said 1000 times. Sprint is fine and doesnt break gameplay.
> >
> >
> >
> > The pro-Sprint arguments are poorly thought-out, illogical, and asinine. The only reason you are not going to repeat them because you are afraid they will be countered, just like they were four years ago.
> >
> > Sprint does break gameplay, read the Sprint threads on Team Beyond and then tell me that it does not.
>
>
> Attack the argument, not the man. Don’t try to disguise Ad Hominem as an argument m80.
>
> There is a fatal flaw in your argument, Sprint does not “break” gameplay. Have you seen Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5: Guardians footage? The gameplay is not broken and functions correctly.
>
> I could state that your arguments are poorly thought out and illogical without elaborating, but we wouldn’t get anywhere with that, would we?
I fail to see how I attacked him.
There is no fatal flaw. I said it breaks the gameplay because it breaks what was greatly implemented in the first three games. And I would explain why if I was on my computer instead of my phone.
No, but unlike many people here, I do not use the “it makes sense” or “Spartans are 'super-soldiers” logical fallacies.