I’ve watched you all debate and argue and flame for a time and I’ve waited to see if people would actually piece this together. I see pivotal arguments against sprint and arguments that get it right partly or partly get the basic premise.
Now I want you to just read this post and be civil and reflect about this one. I’m going to spin this in a different fashion involving the reasons why sprint actually had purpose in Halo: Reach and why 343 failed on two counts:
1.) Sprint was perfect as a choice for an armor ability (In my honest opinion even Bungie understood the reasons why sprint shouldn’t be a basic ability in Halo that everyone had at spawn)
2.) 343 shouldn’t have segregated sprint from the other AA’s and when they left it should have too. (To this day I am still an avid supporter of re-tweaking equipment/AA’s and making them as map pick ups though)
I will start off by saying that people are both wrong and right when they say sprint speeds up or slows down gameplay. Why? Let’s look at how Reach used sprint properly. In a standard match of H:R you were given choices in what AA you would use. Would you sacrifice defense for mobility? Or vice versa? This is the genius of why sprint actually mattered. Sprint was an advantage!
Halo Reach introduced larger map sizes not just because sprint broke smaller maps. It was because in order to make these armor abilities have an impact on gameplay they had to increase gameplay space to create a larger distinction between those who choose a mobility enhancing AA from those who did not. When you picked sprint in Halo Reach you were giving yourself the true ability to move faster around the maps as not all players would have it. Creating a large map meant it took longer to reach power weps or positions using default speed and when you picked sprint you essentially traversed the map normally. I think now looking back bungie didn’t allow us to sprint with weapons raised because the armor ability already gave you the advantage of reaching key locations faster and having the slight disadvantage of being caught running with your weapon down was it’s balancer so to speak. Like how armor lock obviously meant no mobility at all but allowed you to survive catastrophic events in return.
I believe 343 made the first mistake by seperating the choice to pick sprint as an AA in H4. Allow me to explain it further in such a way…
As I have mentioned that a larger map size meant an advantage in securing power weps and key spots for those with sprint and jetpack as well as balancing the ability in the first place. When everyone has that advantage it is no longer an advantage of course (when everyone is special no one is) and that means the true purpose of sprint being in Halo is killed off. No longer are you sprinting to be faster to a position but instead are now sprinting just to move around the map normally and trying to keep up with other players. It offers no addition to gameplay other than (as others have said before) to force you to use it to ensure you are evenly matched while racing to the power weapons at start or at respawn.
343’s second error was killing AA’s and not implimenting them in some other more proper fashion all the while keeping sprint as a default ability in which it was intended by default to be part of a larger scheme of pro and con gameplay from choosing and picking armor abilities as a way to enhance your preferred play style. (and the resulting rock-paper-scissors action as a result of which AA helped better in what situation)
In summary if Armor Abilities are not Halo as many believe than we need to realize sprint is but an aging cog in an entire system of gears that have stopped functioning for their intended purpose. It only offered a true gameplay enhancer as a tactical choice over other options to tackle a match in a different way each time and fight for map control. Now that we have moved on from AA’s we MUST move on from sprint as well as over bloated map sizes until the day comes when 343 has properly tweaked AA’s and equipment and is ready to reintroduce them in a way that does not fault core gunplay. (THEY SHOULD RETURN AS CUSTOM GAME OPTIONS AND FORGE OBJECTS TO PLACE REGARDLESS!)
I never liked equipment or AA’s, ever. I do like that everyone is now equal. On the topic of sprint, well thought out arguments like yours make me lean more towards the middle than towards sprint. But I still think with the new cons to sprint, a layer of thought is added to its use.
Absent minded people will be obliterated. Methodical map controlling players will be rewarded.
I saw my friend run around the map for a good 30-40 seconds at half shields because the dimwit refused to notice the cool down. It lengthens the skill gap. Sure, it may shorten it in turn. So really what it’s doing is changing fundamentally how positions and weapons are rushed. Map size may be affected, but not always. Small maps will still exist where sprinting players are more often punished.
Halo has changed quite a bit with this one seemingly insignificant little feature, and I will take one side or the other or become Switzerland after I spend a decent portion of my life playing the beta.
The original Bungie idea for Reach AAs was only in campaign (im not 100% sure about it) but when they put it in Matchmaking… Bungie opened a dangerous door, now 4 years after Reach we have 2 stock AAs in H5, thrusters and sprint (unlimited) and maybe three with clamber.
People now want his super Spartans with old Power Ups in his Spartans not in map.
Now, the way is open, where is the limit? who know… In H6 we can have spartans flying, diving… People now wont limits, the point is what is Halo? Some guys hate nades, others hate BRs, others hate automatic weapons or AAs… What keep the Halo DNA? Spartan armours? Skins? Elites? My Halo now is “clunky and dated”, Halo for ME.
In this point i cant see a clean solution for this problem, H4 was catastrophic for this community 343 knows and we have a Beta 1 year after the launch (obviuosly 343 wont another epic fail) but they have a very hard job now a war between “Hipsters&New Is Better fans” again… Honestly i dont know how fix this problem, in a war nobody want loose, but the fact is everybody loose anything in a war loosers and winners.
Sorry my english sux FOCookie n.n
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> > No sprint= Lore breaking. No need 4 that. No h8.
>
>
> Sprint has no bearing on lore.
You’re right. Because in the future moving on foot at over 4mph is outlawed. Even in a warzone where running might be appropriate it is still totally unacceptable. All that stuff about Kelly being the fastest Spartan and this being her most useful asset was just in there as a joke.
Your post is all over the place. You talk about balance but say sprint as an AA was fine? AAs period is a rock papers scissors deal but the thing is…IT’S WAS MENT TO. It all about strategy, strengths and weakness. Agree or not halo 4 actually balanced AAs unlike reach
You claim sprint is now pointless rights? Do you not listen to the pro sprint threads? Every one of them say the same thing which makes this thread invalid. I not gonna repeat it as it’s been said 1000 times. Sprint is fine and doesnt break gameplay.
The extra mobility provided was too valuable for moving around the map, so the other AAs weren’t being used as much. So you could either have an actual ability, but you would put yourself at a disadvantage because everyone else can reach the power weapons before you.
> 2533274942655628;7:
> Your post is all over the place. You talk about balance but say sprint as an AA was fine? AAs period is a rock papers scissors deal but the thing is…IT’S WAS MENT TO. It all about strategy, strengths and weakness. Agree or not halo 4 actually balanced AAs unlike reach
>
> You claim sprint is now pointless rights? Do you not listen to the pro sprint threads? Every one of them say the same thing which makes this thread invalid. I not gonna repeat it as it’s been said 1000 times. Sprint is fine and doesnt break gameplay.
My post is well laid out and not “all over the place”. Perhaps if you made more sense in yours I would understand your point but as it stands I can not.
I mentioned it was meant to be rock-paper-scissors in reach. So perhaps you are using a translator and don’t comprehend what I am saying in the OP? And Halo 4 hardly balanced them anymore than Reach. Being a new game they just took out what people complained about the most and turned sprint into default ability all the while adding a couple useless ones.
And yes I read pro sprint arguments and even if they’re all saying the same thing that hardly matters nor does it make the opinion right. If everyone against sprint said the same things (a lot do) does that suddenly make them right?
Also I highly disagree that sprint doesn’t break gameplay just as much as I disagree with it having a use. I saw how AA’s broke gameplay and I didn’t say they were balanced just that sprint was implimented in a superior fashion in Reach when it was left as an AA. Having sprint as an ability that everyone uses is redundant. The map sizes can simply stay smaller with no sprint and we’d achieve the same times to power weapons roughly.
> 2533274813583846;1:
> In summary if Armor Abilities are not Halo as many believe than we need to realize sprint is but an aging cog in an entire system of gears that have stopped functioning for their intended purpose. It only offered a true gameplay enhancer as a tactical choice over other options to tackle a match in a different way each time and fight for map control. Now that we have moved on from AA’s we MUST move on from sprint as well as over bloated map sizes until the day comes when 343 has properly tweaked AA’s and equipment and is ready to reintroduce them in a way that does not fault core gunplay. (THEY SHOULD RETURN AS CUSTOM GAME OPTIONS AND FORGE OBJECTS TO PLACE REGARDLESS!)
This is almost exactly what I said about Thruster Pack. In fact, the same APPLIES to Thruster Pack…
As much as I enjoy Halo 5 gameplay (for the moment that is) I can’t stop asking myself the question: AA’s couldn’t be permanently integrated into Reach’s gameplay, so why should they work better in Halo 5? Is Halo 5 that different from Reach? What has changed SO much since then, that we simply cannot do without Thruster Pack and Sprint in Halo’s formula?
What about the Needler, Plasma Pistol, Fuel Rod Gun, Storm Rifle/Plasma Rifle etc. How will they be effective in Halo 5 with default Thruster Pack on? I guarantee they will miss at least 2 to 5 shots, and while that isn’t much, it’s enough to get yourself killed 1 on 1.
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> > > 2533274896651902;3:
> > > No sprint= Lore breaking. No need 4 that. No h8.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sprint has no bearing on lore.
>
>
> You’re right. Because in the future moving on foot at over 4mph is outlawed. Even in a warzone where running might be appropriate it is still totally unacceptable. All that stuff about Kelly being the fastest Spartan and this being her most useful asset was just in there as a joke.
The way to look at it is simply pressing up full tilt on your stick IS “sprinting”. Just because some other game has it so you cannot shoot as you move with a button press doesn’t make it sprinting in every case.
First point; lore shouldn’t have a place in competitive multiplayer. Neither Walshy, Strongside, Ghosty, or Bravo cared about the lore when they stepped onto the mainstage. Second, you failed to mention the issues that were present with Sprint in Reach or fundamentally. Not that you’re wrong. Just playing devil’s advocate.
> 2533274857209865;14:
> First point; lore shouldn’t have a place in competitive multiplayer. Neither Walshy, Strongside, Ghosty, or Bravo cared about the lore when they stepped onto the mainstage. Second, you failed to mention the issues that were present with Sprint in Reach or fundamentally. Not that you’re wrong. Just playing devil’s advocate.
Oh I don’t care about multi lore at all actually. I don’t know if it seems that way in my OP but I simply care about game mechanics.
And the only reason I didn’t open up about why sprint was flawed in Reach is because looking back about why it failed as an AA in 2010 for a game that was intended to play differently than the usual halo is sort of irrelevent for a differing sprint mechanic that now alters gameplay radically in it’s own way two titles later. Plus my post was too large as is I needed to stay focused on a few main points.
They’re super soldiers that have been trained to fight in armor. I think they’d know how to run a little faster than a brisk jog. Besides, I’ve always found that Halo needed sprint. I’m glad it’s in Halo 5, and I hope to see it in future Halo titles as well!
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> > 2533274813583846;1:
> > In summary if Armor Abilities are not Halo as many believe than we need to realize sprint is but an aging cog in an entire system of gears that have stopped functioning for their intended purpose. It only offered a true gameplay enhancer as a tactical choice over other options to tackle a match in a different way each time and fight for map control. Now that we have moved on from AA’s we MUST move on from sprint as well as over bloated map sizes until the day comes when 343 has properly tweaked AA’s and equipment and is ready to reintroduce them in a way that does not fault core gunplay. (THEY SHOULD RETURN AS CUSTOM GAME OPTIONS AND FORGE OBJECTS TO PLACE REGARDLESS!)
>
>
> This is almost exactly what I said about Thruster Pack. In fact, the same APPLIES to Thruster Pack…
>
> As much as I enjoy Halo 5 gameplay (for the moment that is) I can’t stop asking myself the question: AA’s couldn’t be permanently integrated into Reach’s gameplay, so why should they work better in Halo 5? Is Halo 5 that different from Reach? What has changed SO much since then, that we simply cannot do without Thruster Pack and Sprint in Halo’s formula?
>
> What about the Needler, Plasma Pistol, Fuel Rod Gun, Storm Rifle/Plasma Rifle etc. How will they be effective in Halo 5 with default Thruster Pack on? I guarantee they will miss at least 2 to 5 shots, and while that isn’t much, it’s enough to get yourself killed 1 on 1.
>
> Notice how the beta has no Covenant weapons…
They work better in halo 5 because they are more effective and are integrated within every spartan as EQUAL STARTS. You seem to overlook the basic fundamentals of the actual game itself that made halo what it is. Halo 5 IS that different from reach, hence the different developers what kind of stupid question is that? Maps perfectly suit these abilities because they are considered into the game and even though maps are a little expanded for the sake of these abilities, they still play the same. Also you will miss shots with all the new abilities regardless of what weapon you use. So adapt or die, plain and simple. The lightrifle has returned so I figure there will still be covenant weapons.
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> > 2535460843083983;11:
> > > 2533274813583846;1:
> > > In summary if Armor Abilities are not Halo as many believe than we need to realize sprint is but an aging cog in an entire system of gears that have stopped functioning for their intended purpose. It only offered a true gameplay enhancer as a tactical choice over other options to tackle a match in a different way each time and fight for map control. Now that we have moved on from AA’s we MUST move on from sprint as well as over bloated map sizes until the day comes when 343 has properly tweaked AA’s and equipment and is ready to reintroduce them in a way that does not fault core gunplay. (THEY SHOULD RETURN AS CUSTOM GAME OPTIONS AND FORGE OBJECTS TO PLACE REGARDLESS!)
> >
> >
> >
> > This is almost exactly what I said about Thruster Pack. In fact, the same APPLIES to Thruster Pack…
> >
> > As much as I enjoy Halo 5 gameplay (for the moment that is) I can’t stop asking myself the question: AA’s couldn’t be permanently integrated into Reach’s gameplay, so why should they work better in Halo 5? Is Halo 5 that different from Reach? What has changed SO much since then, that we simply cannot do without Thruster Pack and Sprint in Halo’s formula?
> >
> > What about the Needler, Plasma Pistol, Fuel Rod Gun, Storm Rifle/Plasma Rifle etc. How will they be effective in Halo 5 with default Thruster Pack on? I guarantee they will miss at least 2 to 5 shots, and while that isn’t much, it’s enough to get yourself killed 1 on 1.
> >
> > Notice how the beta has no Covenant weapons…
>
>
> They work better in halo 5 because they are more effective and are integrated within every spartan as EQUAL STARTS. You seem to overlook the basic fundamentals of the actual game itself that made halo what it is. Halo 5 IS that different from reach, hence the different developers what kind of stupid question is that? Maps perfectly suit these abilities because they are considered into the game and even though maps are a little expanded for the sake of these abilities, they still play the same. Also you will miss shots with all the new abilities regardless of what weapon you use. So adapt or die, plain and simple. The lightrifle has returned so I figure there will still be covenant weapons.
Have you ever thought that Plasma Pistol might be heavily buffed to compensate for faster movement making for a weapon that instantly zaps anything that isn’t flying around at high speed?
The ssme can be said of the needler.
How will Plasma Rifle factor in? Slow projectiles that do high damage (the way it should be) won’t work.
Fuel rod cannons will be removed for being useless and redundant I suppose. The covy weps will be mostly removed and/or tweaked.
I don’t think using Reach as an anchor for your argument is very effective. As it stands, it’s common knowledge that Reach was a project pushed out after Bungie stopped giving a -Yoink- about Halo all together.
Additionally, rock paper scissors isn’t a good metaphor either. It suggests that in a game of skill > all, that there are obvious counters that can’t be beat by their inferior. Which simply isn’t true.
Making sprint universal isn’t necessarily bad, in a game of skill, are you skilled enough to hit someone running away? Or are you going to let them slip through your fingers? Sprint isn’t only going to be used as an escape mechanism either as people keep suggesting. It’s both offensive and defensive. And it offers utility to people of all playstyles. Are you familiar with the ‘fight or flight’ response? Depending on how a persons brain is wired to react and assess a situation will determine how the will utilize this ability.
Honestly, the only, only, reason I keep seeing regurgitated is this whole CoD fascination. “CoD has Sprint, CoD has ADS, CoD has etc… stop making Halo into CoD.” News flash, all those things didn’t originate in CoD either.
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> Honestly, the only, only, reason I keep seeing regurgitated is this whole CoD fascination. “CoD has Sprint, CoD has ADS, CoD has etc… stop making Halo into CoD.” News flash, all those things didn’t originate in CoD either.
Actually, it’s because modern first person shooters popularized things such as sprint and ADS - which is why CoD has turned into a tool for such arguments because it is the classic example of a modern first person shooter. Yes, there are others (Battlefield for example), but CoD’s release schedule frequency is so high that it’s practically universally known, hence why it’s used as a butt for the anti-sprint and anti-ADS arguments.