The Real Problem with Precision Weapons

Games Other Halo
1

Everyone’s complaining about ZB and Reach’s Precision Weapons’ OP-ness, when really the only problem is this:

The Precision Weapon’s rate of fire (whether it be DMR, NR, or whatever).

Precision weapons shouldn’t be inaccurate; having spread on a “precision” weapon is a contradiction in and of itself! The REAL problem is the respective weapon’s rate of fire. The Needle Rifle, without bloom, turns into a fully automatic death machine!

Bloom (Spread) was implemented in these precision weapons to artificially reduce the gun’s rate of fire, when in reality, bloom only makes it easier to spam the weapons at close range. But I digress.

With the advent of the TU, the precision weapons have become even more unbalanced. While bloom is a bad mechanic to have, it forcefully reduced the weapon’s ability to spam the trigger at longer ranges, seemingly turning bloom into a successful attempt at slowing down the precision weapon’s killtimes.

Until, that is, you throw a DMR spammer into a close-range situation against an opponent. At that point, bloom doesn’t help pull on the reigns on the weapon’s rate of fire.

Ultimately, bloom (spread) is just a “beating around the bush” solution at reducing a weapon’s rate of fire, when the real solution is clear as can be:

All precision weapons must have their rate of fire dramatically reduced.

I don’t care about the “pro players” who would whine about the DMR’s killtime being reduced. All precision weapons must ultimately have their killtimes reduced by exponentially reducing their rate of fire. This will not only validate the bloom supporters who claim that pacing your shot is more skillful, but it will effectively make precision weapons less useful at close range.

2

I wouldn’t say dramatically, but yeah the RoF is too high.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure if 343 can even change this if they wanted.

It’s a “lesser of two evils” situation and Reach’s terribly-implemented bloom will always lose out in that situation.

3

> I wouldn’t say dramatically, but yeah the RoF is too high.
> Unfortunately, I’m not sure if 343 can even change this if they wanted.
>
> It’s a “lesser of two evils” situation and Reach’s terribly-implemented bloom will always lose out in that situation.

If 343 has full reigns over the entire game, I’m sure they can tweak a gun’s base attributes. Until then, Halo’s guns can’t have everything (accuracy, high firing rate, high power, etc).

I’m ultimately a supporter of ZB, but accuracy shouldn’t be implemented before fixing the gun’s other attributes.

4

> I wouldn’t say dramatically, but yeah the RoF is too high.
> Unfortunately, I’m not sure if 343 can even change this if they wanted.
>
> It’s a “lesser of two evils” situation and Reach’s terribly-implemented bloom will always lose out in that situation.

They changed the rate of fire for the Magnum in the Anniversary playlists. Don’t you think they could change it for the DMR as well?

5

Yeah, I don’t mean to say that they “can’t technically change it if they really wanted” but more that they discovered it would be a level of effort higher than they are willing to make.

If was really so simple then I don’t think they would have released such a garbage version of the Anniversary pistol.

Or maybe they just really are so short-sighted as to have not realized how bad it is…

Edit:

> > I wouldn’t say dramatically, but yeah the RoF is too high.
> > Unfortunately, I’m not sure if 343 can even change this if they wanted.
> >
> > It’s a “lesser of two evils” situation and Reach’s terribly-implemented bloom will always lose out in that situation.
>
> They changed the rate of fire for the Magnum in the Anniversary playlists. Don’t you think they could change it for the DMR as well?

I wasn’t aware they changed it, when did that happen? Was it announced somewhere?

6

> Yeah, I don’t mean to say that they “can’t technically change it if they really wanted” but more that they discovered it would be a level of effort higher than they are willing to make.
>
> If was really so simple then I don’t think they would have released such a garbage version of the Anniversary pistol.
>
> Or maybe they just really are so short-sighted as to have not realized how bad it is…
>
>
>
> Edit:
>
>
>
> > > I wouldn’t say dramatically, but yeah the RoF is too high.
> > > Unfortunately, I’m not sure if 343 can even change this if they wanted.
> > >
> > > It’s a “lesser of two evils” situation and Reach’s terribly-implemented bloom will always lose out in that situation.
> >
> > They changed the rate of fire for the Magnum in the Anniversary playlists. Don’t you think they could change it for the DMR as well?
>
> I wasn’t aware they changed it, when did that happen? Was it announced somewhere?

Yeah, in one of the Weekly Bulletins that talked about the Anniversary playlists.

7

> > Yeah, I don’t mean to say that they “can’t technically change it if they really wanted” but more that they discovered it would be a level of effort higher than they are willing to make.
> >
> > If was really so simple then I don’t think they would have released such a garbage version of the Anniversary pistol.
> >
> > Or maybe they just really are so short-sighted as to have not realized how bad it is…
> >
> >
> >
> > Edit:
> >
> >
> >
> > > > I wouldn’t say dramatically, but yeah the RoF is too high.
> > > > Unfortunately, I’m not sure if 343 can even change this if they wanted.
> > > >
> > > > It’s a “lesser of two evils” situation and Reach’s terribly-implemented bloom will always lose out in that situation.
> > >
> > > They changed the rate of fire for the Magnum in the Anniversary playlists. Don’t you think they could change it for the DMR as well?
> >
> > I wasn’t aware they changed it, when did that happen? Was it announced somewhere?
>
> Yeah, in one of the Weekly Bulletins that talked about the Anniversary playlists.

Oh definitely; the rate of fire with the CE pistol is much slower (but it still doesn’t detract from the pistol’s godly 3SK).

8

Sort of see the point, but the thing is the DMR is already supposed to have a much slower rate of fire in general, its called pacing your shots and being rewarded with zero spread for doing that.

But you also have the option of mashing the trigger and being punished for that via bloom. Reach is the first game that has given you the choice.

The problem is that perhaps the punishment isnt bad enough, and favours getting more bullets out vs a clean headshot a bit too often (but not nearly as often as is claimed) This is why ive said they should have tried INCREASING bloom and decreasing reticle reset time instead. More punishment for being a spamming noob, but quicker forgiveness for cleaning up your act, and lining up your shots before taking them. All this does is favour accuracy (and tactics), aka skill, over the trigger mashing that the titular pro players partake in, i dont see how anyone could be against this.

9

> Sort of see the point, but the thing is the DMR is already supposed to have a much slower rate of fire in general, its called pacing your shots and being rewarded with zero spread for doing that.
>
> But you also have the option of mashing the trigger and being punished for that via bloom. Reach is the first game that has given you the choice.
>
> The problem is that perhaps the punishment isnt bad enough, and favours getting more bullets out vs a clean headshot a bit too often (but not nearly as often as is claimed) This is why ive said they should have tried INCREASING bloom and decreasing reticle reset time instead. More punishment for being a spamming noob, but quicker forgiveness for cleaning up your act, and lining up your shots before taking them. All this does is favour accuracy (and tactics), aka skill, over the trigger mashing that the titular pro players partake in, i dont see how anyone could be against this.

I am against any sort of spread (inaccuracy) with a precision weapon. People should be given the choice to spam the trigger, yes, but with a different gun. That’s what Halo is all about: having many different options. But a medium-to-long-range weapon should not give players the opportunity to spam the trigger at close range and be rewarded more than people who carefully place each shot.

Your idea is good in theory, but in practical use, a high rate of fire will always turn people into spray 'n pray/spammers. Accuracy and rate of fire must sit on opposite sides of the scale.

10

I do ultimately agree with what you’re saying. I don’t really have much of a personal problem with bloom, because I enjoy CQC more and therefore avoid long range combat scenarios that might be won with luck as opposed to skill. That said, I too have proposed (not on here, but amongst my other Halo-playing friends) that the ranged weapons’ rate of fire (specifically the DMR) should be reduced, so that it simply forces the player to pace their shots instead of bloom, which just kind of tries to encourage them. However, one of my friends made a good point, and said that a lot of players would whine about the weapon not feeling “fast” enough, and therefore reducing its appeal (which might be one reason why they made the battle rifle fire a three-shot burst; three shots and a pause just feels like you’re accomplishing more than one shot and a pause, even if that one shot is three times as powerful as the three). Overall I’d say that there are many, many things that go into multiplayer that can be improved, elaborated and honed to perfection, and I’m sure that 343 industries realizes that.

11

> I do ultimately agree with what you’re saying. I don’t really have much of a personal problem with bloom, because I enjoy CQC more and therefore avoid long range combat scenarios that might be won with luck as opposed to skill. That said, I too have proposed (not on here, but amongst my other Halo-playing friends) that the ranged weapons’ rate of fire (specifically the DMR) should be reduced, so that it simply forces the player to pace their shots instead of bloom, which just kind of tries to encourage them. However, one of my friends made a good point, and said that a lot of players would whine about the weapon not feeling “fast” enough, and therefore reducing its appeal (which might be one reason why they made the battle rifle fire a three-shot burst; three shots and a pause just feels like you’re accomplishing more than one shot and a pause, even if that one shot is three times as powerful as the three). Overall I’d say that there are many, many things that go into multiplayer that can be improved, elaborated and honed to perfection, and I’m sure that 343 industries realizes that.

Having the precision weapon’s population wane wouldn’t be too bad of a thing, now that you mention it. Besides, people have always complained about everyone using either the BR or the DMR constantly, with no variety. Less people liking it = more variety utilized. But to your point, if everyone hated it, then it would have failed as a utility weapon.

12

(EXCUSE MY SPELLING I DONT CURRENTLY CARE)
Not like anyone around here listens to anything I got to say , but , I’m currently working on gametypes that seperate Precision weapons and Automatic weapons into 2 different gametypes .

In the Precision gametype you start with choice of NR/Pistol and DMR/Pistol .

In the Automatic gametypes you start with (here’s the kicker) AR/Plasma Pistol .

The power weapons stay the same whether its Precision or Auto , but in the Precision gametypes there are no Automatics and vice versa .

The main focus of these gametypes are AA’s as pick-ups to balance the AA’s a bit more .

No matter what angle you try to look at it from the DMR/NR/Pistol cannot function well with AR starts . The AR becomes completely useless and always will be as long as Precision weapons are on the same map .

13

> (EXCUSE MY SPELLING I DONT CURRENTLY CARE)
> Not like anyone around here listens to anything I got to say , but , I’m currently working on gametypes that seperate Precision weapons and Automatic weapons into 2 different gametypes .
>
> In the Precision gametype you start with choice of NR/Pistol and DMR/Pistol .
>
> In the Automatic gametypes you start with (here’s the kicker) AR/Plasma Pistol .
>
> The power weapons stay the same whether its Precision or Auto , but in the Precision gametypes there are no Automatics and vice versa .
>
> The main focus of these gametypes are AA’s as pick-ups to balance the AA’s a bit more .
>
> No matter what angle you try to look at it from the DMR/NR/Pistol cannot function well with AR starts . The AR becomes completely useless and always will be as long as Precision weapons are on the same map .

That sounds like a good gametype. I always kind of disliked having both Utility weapons in one game (AR and BR). One of them almost takes the spotlight out of the other, making the second inferior inevitably.

14

I would like to see that game type. Im a huge fan of BR/DMR slayer pro types. Never was a fan of AR starts. But we need both starts for players who love Precision and and auto. It makes wonder me how some people don’t enjoy preceison weapons. :confused:

15

I haven’t gotten to play it yet (still incomplete and i’ll need testers when im done) but the automatic gametype , from what ive been trying to design , looks like it’ll be a load of fun . One problem i’ve come across though is the Sniper on BTB Auto gametypes would probably dominate .

16

> Everyone’s complaining about ZB and Reach’s Precision Weapons’ OP-ness, when really the only problem is this:
>
> The Precision Weapon’s rate of fire (whether it be DMR, NR, or whatever).
>
> Precision weapons shouldn’t be inaccurate; having spread on a “precision” weapon is a contradiction in and of itself! The REAL problem is the respective weapon’s rate of fire. The Needle Rifle, without bloom, turns into a fully automatic death machine!
>
> Bloom (Spread) was implemented in these precision weapons to artificially reduce the gun’s rate of fire, when in reality, bloom only makes it easier to spam the weapons at close range. But I digress.
>
> With the advent of the TU, the precision weapons have become even more unbalanced. While bloom is a bad mechanic to have, it forcefully reduced the weapon’s ability to spam the trigger at longer ranges, seemingly turning bloom into a successful attempt at slowing down the precision weapon’s killtimes.
>
> Until, that is, you throw a DMR spammer into a close-range situation against an opponent. At that point, bloom doesn’t help pull on the reigns on the weapon’s rate of fire.
>
> Ultimately, bloom (spread) is just a “beating around the bush” solution at reducing a weapon’s rate of fire, when the real solution is clear as can be:
>
> All precision weapons must have their rate of fire dramatically reduced.
>
> I don’t care about the “pro players” who would whine about the DMR’s killtime being reduced. All precision weapons must ultimately have their killtimes reduced by exponentially reducing their rate of fire. This will not only validate the bloom supporters who claim that pacing your shot is more skillful, but it will effectively make precision weapons less useful at close range.

If I am reading this right, you want bloom. If so then I agree with 100%.