343 should hold a referendum ((n.) The right to approve or reject by popular vote a measure passed upon by a legislature.) during a short period (week more or less?) during which all Halo players are asked to vote on what we’d want for a Ranking System?
> “Do you want to see the return of the 1 to 50 Ranking System in Halo 4?”
>
> [YES] / [NO] / [UNSURE]
Using the pop-ups you get when you sign in to Halo: Reach online, 343 could announce this vote and refer people to the site, in order to get the absolute highest amount of participation possible.
It would be the first thing you see when you come to halo.xbox.com during the voting period. Also, it would require a Windows Live ID, linked to a Gamertag that has played a Halo game that 343 tracks on their site.
Of course the “1 to 50 Ranking System” does not mean much about the true functions of that system. In the case of an approval, it would be tweaked a whole lot to prevent abuse like in Halo 3. But it would allow 343 to figure out what would be popular for their game, and increase the sales and numbers online.
In the case of a rejection, it would be left up to 343 to create their own ranking system.
343 wants us to trust them. In return it’s just fair that we ask them to trust us, isn’t it?
Thanks for reading and spread the word if you think it is a good idea.
i don’t think a pop-up in game is possible sadly, they can do a pop-up question using the system they use to notify people of matchmaking updates, how ever i don’t think its possible for them to do a yes, no and cancel option, let alone collect data from it.
the other problem is that people who visit the site isn’t going to give an accurate representation of what people truely want …
I think that everyone should understand that asking or supporting a 1-50 system in Halo 4, doesn’t necessarily mean making a copy paste of Halo 3s 1-50.
I will always support a skill based ranking system in Halo.
The time for the voting should be 1 month, and with something such as this to read before voting:
> it won’t be a must anymore for the casual player to take part of this 1-50), because there will be another separate ranking systems in the game.
> i don’t think a pop-up in game is possible sadly, they can do a pop-up question using the system they use to notify people of matchmaking updates, how ever i don’t think its possible for them to do a yes, no and cancel option, let alone collect data from it.
>
> the other problem is that people who visit the site isn’t going to give an accurate representation of what people truely want …
I did say use the pop-ups to ANNOUNCE it and not to vote… Such a thing is impossible I believe.
> > i don’t think a pop-up in game is possible sadly, they can do a pop-up question using the system they use to notify people of matchmaking updates, how ever i don’t think its possible for them to do a yes, no and cancel option, let alone collect data from it.
> >
> > the other problem is that people who visit the site isn’t going to give an accurate representation of what people truely want …
>
> I did say use the pop-ups to ANNOUNCE it and not to vote… Such a thing is impossible I believe.
>
> I’ve made it clearer though.
oh, well, most people probably won’t care and would just ignore though, the people who will care are the ones who actually want to system in place so they’ll be the ones voting giving an in-accurate representation.
I’d much rather see the Halo Reach ranking system transfer over to Halo 4, but at the same time I’m sure many Halo fans would love a classic mode or social mode with the ranking of 1-50 from Halo 3.
This would give Halo fans the opportunity to show their skill set on Multiplayer rank online, and if prefered, Show the online community their skills on social or classic mode also.
> > > i don’t think a pop-up in game is possible sadly, they can do a pop-up question using the system they use to notify people of matchmaking updates, how ever i don’t think its possible for them to do a yes, no and cancel option, let alone collect data from it.
> > >
> > > the other problem is that people who visit the site isn’t going to give an accurate representation of what people truely want …
> >
> > I did say use the pop-ups to ANNOUNCE it and not to vote… Such a thing is impossible I believe.
> >
> > I’ve made it clearer though.
>
> oh, well, most people probably won’t care and would just ignore though, the people who will care are the ones who actually want to system in place so they’ll be the ones voting giving an in-accurate representation.
Well if they don’t care, then they can’t really complain or have a problem with it (a ranking system) being in the game then can they?
> oh, well, most people probably won’t care and would just ignore though, the people who will care are the ones who actually want to system in place so they’ll be the ones voting giving an in-accurate representation.
Well if these players don’t vote not care, it’s safe to assume they are not against it, therefore it is the same as voting “YES” or “UNSURE”.
I don’t see what the issue is.
> I’d much rather see the Halo Reach ranking system transfer over to Halo 4, but at the same time I’m sure many Halo fans would love a classic mode or social mode with the ranking of 1-50 from Halo 3.
>
> This would give Halo fans the opportunity to show their skill set on Multiplayer rank online, and if prefered, Show the online community their skills on social or classic mode also.
You’ve barely played any Arena at all. How can you claim prefering the Halo: Reach’s Ranking System over another, when you didn’t get to experience its flaws?
And how would we have a Ranking System in Social? That’s a paradox. It needs to be in Ranked, to have a RANKING.
Unless you meant the progression system… Which has been announced at this time, and isn’t going to change… Also is irrelevant to skill.
> > oh, well, most people probably won’t care and would just ignore though, the people who will care are the ones who actually want to system in place so they’ll be the ones voting giving an in-accurate representation.
>
> Well if these players don’t vote not care, it’s safe to assume they are not against it, therefore it is the same as voting “YES” or “UNSURE”.
>
> I don’t see what the issue is.
its an issue with people not knowing what they want really, if the result of such a poll would be a skill based ranking system being the only ranking system then the people who didn’t vote would suddenly have an objection to it.
how ever, if 343i is looking for information on whether or not to add a skill based ranking system along side the activity based system but no reall interaction then there is no need for a poll, instead they can just look to their forums because the majority of the people posting here are competitive and hardcore players which would be the type of players interested in it.
It’s not easy to be for or against something when you don’t know much about it. A question about the return of “the 1 to 50 Ranking System” won’t mean anything to people who just started playing Halo with reach. And then if you’re vaguely including mention of “an updated/revised system”, then even people who played halo 3 don’t know what it is, not to mention that halo 2 also had a number-based ranking system that would be unknown to even more people who only started with halo 3.
The easiest way to discourage abuse is to not display a number. Since I feel like the main reason for manipulating the system is to get the highest number next to your gamertag to tell everybody you’re the best…if the number isn’t there, people won’t be as likely to buy accounts or boost or do other silly things. You can just have a solid matchmaking system, which would be able to offer competitive play.
> > > oh, well, most people probably won’t care and would just ignore though, the people who will care are the ones who actually want to system in place so they’ll be the ones voting giving an in-accurate representation.
> >
> > Well if these players don’t vote not care, it’s safe to assume they are not against it, therefore it is the same as voting “YES” or “UNSURE”.
> >
> > I don’t see what the issue is.
>
> its an issue with people not knowing what they want really, if the result of such a poll would be a skill based ranking system being the only ranking system then the people who didn’t vote would suddenly have an objection to it.
>
> how ever, if 343i is looking for information on whether or not to add a skill based ranking system along side the activity based system but no reall interaction then there is no need for a poll, instead they can just look to their forums because the majority of the people posting here are competitive and hardcore players which would be the type of players interested in it.
If people don’t vote, then they are not allowed to complain. That is what I say when voting for politics as well. If you don’t exercise your right to vote for President/Prime Minister/whatever, then you forfeit the right to -Yoink- and complain. It should be the same thing here. If you don’t exercise your right to vote for a ranking system, then you forfeit your right to -Yoink- and complain about it later.
> > You’ve barely played any Arena at all.
>
> Don’t go any further than this, okay?
>
> Stat flaming = bad.
I know you’ve read the rest of the post and know that it was nothing like flaming. I’m a respectful person, even though I’m competitive and all, it doesn’t make me some kind of elitist.
Sure you can take this sentence out of context and it makes it look like some sort of insulting, but it’s to say that if I’m not a programmer, I’m not going to go around telling people what makes proper coding and what doesn’t. Just like how if you weren’t a monitor you wouldn’t be enforcing the rules right now.
Hope you understand the point that I’m making.
> It’s not easy to be for or against something when you don’t know much about it. A question about the return of “the 1 to 50 Ranking System” won’t mean anything to people who just started playing Halo with reach. And then if you’re vaguely including mention of “an updated/revised system”, then even people who played halo 3 don’t know what it is.
>
> The easiest way to discourage abuse is to not display a number. Since I feel like the main reason for manipulating the system is to get the highest number next to your gamertag to tell everybody you’re the best…if the number isn’t there, people won’t be as likely to buy accounts or boost or do other silly things. You can just have a solid matchmaking system, which would be able to offer competitive play.
The easiest way to discourage people from playing it at all is also to not display a number. Sure you can play games against every one else and win to prove you’re the best but it would be far too long and pointless.
Abuse will always happen whether you want it or not. Taking this into consideration, you’d want to create a system that limits it as much as possible, but also is popular to the rest of the legitimate and competitive players nonetheless.
Unless 343 wants a Reach-ish population (80-100K) for Halo 4 over the potential 400-500K at a time, based on Halo 3 numbers and the progress of Halo since then.
Trust me, I totally understood what you were saying and I wasn’t yelling at you in particular. I should have made it clear that that was just a general, “I don’t wanna do any work or ban anyone today” reminder for the whole thread. Please don’t misinterpret my post as me yelling or anything of the sort, I just edited out the parts that didn’t relate to the point I was trying to make.
> > > > oh, well, most people probably won’t care and would just ignore though, the people who will care are the ones who actually want to system in place so they’ll be the ones voting giving an in-accurate representation.
> > >
> > > Well if these players don’t vote not care, it’s safe to assume they are not against it, therefore it is the same as voting “YES” or “UNSURE”.
> > >
> > > I don’t see what the issue is.
> >
> > its an issue with people not knowing what they want really, if the result of such a poll would be a skill based ranking system being the only ranking system then the people who didn’t vote would suddenly have an objection to it.
> >
> > how ever, if 343i is looking for information on whether or not to add a skill based ranking system along side the activity based system but no reall interaction then there is no need for a poll, instead they can just look to their forums because the majority of the people posting here are competitive and hardcore players which would be the type of players interested in it.
>
> If people don’t vote, then they are not allowed to complain. That is what I say when voting for politics as well. If you don’t exercise your right to vote for President/Prime Minister/whatever, then you forfeit the right to -Yoink!- and complain. It should be the same thing here. If you don’t exercise your right to vote for a ranking system, then you forfeit your right to -Yoink!- and complain about it later.
but what if the people who didn’t vote where the majority and they quit because they didn’t like the results?
this isn’t politics, its a game, because its a game makes it option so if there is something they don’t like then they can just walk away where as with politics you can’t.
> Trust me, I totally understood what you were saying and I wasn’t yelling at you in particular. I should have made it clear that that was just a general, “I don’t wanna do any work or ban anyone today” reminder for the whole thread. Please don’t misinterpret my post as me yelling or anything of the sort, I just edited out the parts that didn’t relate to the point I was trying to make.
>
> Truce?
I hear you. I might have not explained things in a proper fashion either in the original post, or not used decent wording to make the point I was intending to make.
But rest assured that it wasn’t in vain, I’ve learned something out of this.
> > It’s not easy to be for or against something when you don’t know much about it. A question about the return of “the 1 to 50 Ranking System” won’t mean anything to people who just started playing Halo with reach. And then if you’re vaguely including mention of “an updated/revised system”, then even people who played halo 3 don’t know what it is.
> >
> > The easiest way to discourage abuse is to not display a number. Since I feel like the main reason for manipulating the system is to get the highest number next to your gamertag to tell everybody you’re the best…if the number isn’t there, people won’t be as likely to buy accounts or boost or do other silly things. You can just have a solid matchmaking system, which would be able to offer competitive play.
>
> The easiest way to discourage people from playing it at all is also to not display a number. Sure you can play games against every one else and win to prove you’re the best but it would be far too long and pointless.
>
> Abuse will always happen whether you want it or not. Taking this into consideration, you’d want to create a system that limits it as much as possible, but also is popular to the rest of the legitimate and competitive players nonetheless.
>
> Unless 343 wants a Reach-ish population (80-100K) for Halo 4 over the potential 400-500K at a time, based on Halo 3 numbers and the progress of Halo since then.
I don’t know the relative populations who play video games to have a number associated with their gamertag versus people who play video games for entertainment purposes. I also don’t think the change in ranking system were Reach’s main problem.
But is your point that you need a limit? You want to get a 50 and then quit, show it off to everyone to brag? Or even before reaching the highest rank, just using that number to say how you’re better than people with lower numbers? Or do you need to see a number that tell you you’re improving? Or is it something else?
What about just displaying somebody’s win % for that playlist when you move your cursor/select thing over their gamertag in the lobbies? With a decent skill-based matchmaking system in place, the player with a higher win % would be the historically better player. Although that would make people who start off poorly sad, so perhaps displaying a win % from the last month, or X number of games would be better. Perhaps it can also keep track of a person’s “best” performance someplace on that same view for people who want to be good briefly and then stop.
The point of a rank is not just for bragging purpose and aiming to be the best, but also to provide competitive matchups once you reach the highest levels.
Think of it this way: Pretending you reach the max rank, you earn the right to claim that (in theory) you are better than those below you. Now from that point, there are still people who are equal to you in ranks, therefore in skill (in theory) and that’s where you end up proving that you are the best of the best and make a name for yourself. Stats, such as a win % wouldn’t work for that reason.
If there was no limit to the ranking, it would become impossible to find matches and the top rankings would become irrelevant to one another. Top players would stop playing it over a while, and so on, decreasing the population on the long run, and dimishing the theorical “skill ceiling” before you can’t find games anymore. It could also lead to some sort of excessive circle boosting. Nevertheless, it’s out of question.
