Good in determining skill, bad for the matchmaking experience and enjoyment of playing to improve your rank.
Yay, first part of mission accomplished.
That’s always harder to qualify.
There are so many variables.
And I imagine it’s a lot harder where you sit up the food chain then down here in the mess hall 
This is where I think 343 have “lost the plot” somewhat.
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Matching the CSR and MMR scales is just silly. 0 to 1800+. It’s just not that accurate. You can’t really compare two players of the same number (especially across regions). And people are losing their mind over a handful of CSR points that have little significance in terms of the overall ranking accuracy. The CSR scale has to be significantly smaller.
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They seem to be happy to encourage people to grind “CSR” as opposed to actual skill. Every day I come across squads of Onyx players with smurfs and/or sandbagging accounts. Yesterday it was an Onyx duo with a Bronze 5. These players ruin the experience at my level by disrupting match making - and at higher levels by diluting the skill mix of the Onyx pool.
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We need an XP rank to grind. Skill isn’t something you “grind”. It’s something that evolves organically (and slowly) as you improve.
There are other ways for 343 to create a skill journey. Make the scale of the CSR relevant to the accuracy of the system. eg 1-36 (Bronze 1 to Onyx 6), Or increase it to 10 tiers per division.
Have a “Champion” number you can grind for. Each time a bunch of Onxy 6 players get together in a match with an appropriate ping then the winners get a Champion point. You can then have a Champion’s table each season. The most points “win”.
At the moment I don’t trust the number.
If I see a player with an CSR of 1850 my first, and only, thought should be WOW, that person rocks. At the moment all I’m thinking is how many Platinum teams did they beat up to get that. And that’s not good.
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I think this describes the issue in a bigger way than is obvious. You have made spreadsheets and statistical correlation data during personal time using knowledge in that subject matter. Do the devs expect players to assume this complex algorithm and come to the same conclusions for understanding the system or do they not care or are they aware at all that the player base finds it important that they understand the system which they are playing?
It lends cadence that players asking for a more communicative xp system each game, whether accounting for direct rank change or not, will help the avg player seeing feedback after every match how much their impact played on the game and their rank.
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Agree 100%.
They need more blogs. FAQ sheets. Some sort of regular Q&A. They could dispel and lot of rumour and angst in a handful of key strokes.
But on the same token, it’s a difficult and hostile audience. It’s obvious that some people just don’t care.
OMG. This one hundred thousand percent.
If the masses had an XP rank to grind it would take a lot of focus off CSR and rank in general (and let them get to work quietly in the background like they should be).
Yeah we’re being toxic and hostile for sure. The fanbase has been super ugly on Twitter, so much so that the CM has made multiple statements about the behaviour and plead us to give feedback in a more structured and stoic way. But the internet is hostile, it’s a place of extremes, they should be more aware and less naive as to how people behave on the internet in general. If they’d release some good news in the cadence they’ve been giving bad news I bet they’d get an extremely good response in the same way they get an extremely bad response when congratulating themselves on deploying a fraction of the content they promised during pre-release content. They try to frame their non-news and nothing-updates as something more and you’re just not going to fool the internet like that and you look incompetent trying to.
Here’s my line of thinking… Firstly, mandate some overtime for a month or two. Our community and most gaming communities are hostile and we don’t respond self-care/woke excuses like “priority 0”. So just have a company meeting and ask for dedication from employees for a month or two, in that time actually get some stuff done and then make a PR plan to slice and serve some bite-sized content and improvements over the span of 4 weeeks, once a week, (wk1. deploy gun jamming fix, wk2. give a new map, wk3. deploy UI tweak, wk4. deploy another minor tweak) and the community at large would back off a bit I think.
We would respond really well to UI improvements and bug fixes. Drop the MLG HCS bullcrap quit updating the game with that stuff in mind. Personally I still don’t know why they haven’t drilled down and fixed the custom games issues and Forge. I would make custom games browser #1 because then you give the community a way to create their own content and entertain themselves for long enough to work on the other issues in order of Forge, bug fixes, desync, etc. then you have the community making their own content while you take care of the big issues like Priority 0, Raytracing, MKB vs Controller balance, Campaign scoring/multiplayer would be last on my list because frankly, in the mind of a corpo-rat… it doesn’t make any money the way an active and happy multiplayer community would make, an active community would feed your revenue with purchases of store items and boost etc.
That’s my idea, it’s basically worthless because I really don’t have faith that 343 reads any of this stuff. I would give 343 so much more of my patience and respect if they’d at least respond to these kinds of posts and efficiently respond as to why they can’t do it. Idc if they say no to mine and our ideas, I just wanna know they’re here and we’re heard.
They really ought to introduce a few additional ranking systems that coincide with the current CSR system that’s in use within the ranked environment; though, they should bring back Halo 5’s top 200 Onyx “Champ” titles.
First, they should introduce a new rank system that’s more geared toward being a playlist/mode win based progression system. I like to think of the military playlist rank system as it was introduced in H3 for an example. They could even pair it with a numeral grind for the ranked environment that correlates more or less with the individual CSRs while leaving the social arena environment to simply feature the military-based win progression rank only, This would give people more of a progressive grind element to sink time into (per playlist/mode). To be clear, this is not to replace the current CSRs in the ranked environment which do a good job of quickly relaying a fairly accurate indication of player skill level. This would only serve to provide an additional metric to keep players interested in.
It’d also be neat if they brought back a concept like Spartan Companies, but at a Fireteam level that allows people to register a specific group of individuals (Fireteam sized) to earn strictly-team based CSRs. These CSRs wouldn’t deal with the zero-sum individual performance adjustments post-match. Thus making these CSRs an equal adjustment amongst the registered team members from the team-based net adjustment post-match. Maybe have these tie into earning a team-based “Champ” title at the highest skill levels as you described it because it’s not just a focus on the top 200 players like the individual based CSRs.
Anyways, just some really neat opportunities that 343i didn’t take advantage of for Halo: Infinite, but hopefully someday will. Lastly, they also really need a game-wide personal XP rank too; essentially, they should bring back a Spartan Rank system similar in scope to Guardians or Reach. Though, this needs to coincide with being able to earn match performance & time-based XP. Hell, it’d be fantastic if they’d associate progressing through Spartan Ranks with earning some minor amount of real in-game credit for use in the store. Present an incentive for people to sink copious amounts of time into the game in order to lessen their need to spend actual cash. It may inspire power users to pursue unlocking everything without going broke. Needless to say, earning Spartan Ranks should’ve been a fundamental design component for the title at launch. Very disappointing that it wasn’t present then or now.
Kind of becomes counter productive because then you have to give everyone time off after wards.
Better off settling into a steady work rate.
Isn’t that an “us” problem?
Most of the stuff that is complained about as “MLG” -yoink- is actually just common sense game balancing. I doubt much of it has anything to do with the actual pros.
Yes. This plus Forge would be a huge step forward.
That would be awesome. So much wasted potential.
Yep. Weighted to wins and performance (eg. medals).
I would have CSR left as purely skill. Like it is. But take away the number. Make Onyx 1 to 6 like the other Divisions.
Then call Onyx 6 champions. And as I mentioned in a previous post award “Champion Points” in games where there are 4v4 Champs and everyone has a good ping. Keep a table of these points.
Bring back Spartan Ranks for XP. Make each level exponential out to SR 150 the same as Guardians. But after that just keep repeating level 150 for the same XP. You can continue indefinitely 150, 151, 152, 153…
Then tie the skill and XP ranks together for a Seasonal Military rank. Get to a certain level in each for each rank.
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I agree that it is not better to “slay” than “play”.
However, it is quite frustrating to win a game for your team by scoring most objectives, but only get rewarded with a tiny sliver of rank increase because your KDA happened to be 0.0. Next you will lose a huge chunk because the matchmaking gave your team three players and a full team for your opponents in Strongholds.
KDA (or kills per minute) does seem to be a factor as to how much you gain rank, and it is annoying to see rank going up only a little bit even after multiple wins and then lose all those gains in a few games when the matchmaking expects you to carry lower ranked players to victory.
I don’t have many issues with Halo Infinite, and I love the gameplay itself. But ranking and matchmaking system seems very flawed. This is purely anecdotal, but I often can’t tell the difference between platinum, diamond, or onyx players whilst playing the game.
Couple of things. Firstly you get the win. That’s the important bit.
But you should be able to come out with kills. You need them to get the flag, the oddball, or clear a zone. And if you are playing carefully you should still be working on your KDA. Even with the oddball you should be dying on your feet trading the kill, not just letting it fall out of your dead cold hands.
And the main metric is kills per minute. And it kind of works over the previous games. Not the game you just played. It’s not intuitive.
But even then. It doesn’t really matter.
Bottom line is that tiny sliver is based on the shape of your MMR curve and the quality of the opposition. This far outweighs your K/D or KDA for that game. Someone getting more CSR is due to their MMR being higher and pulling harder on their CSR to catch up.
You don’t have to give people time off for overtime. It’s an elective thing. Overtime means extra loading and extra pay, nothing more.
That’s why you get a job to get paid.
If it was getting done the issues would start to be reduced.
7 months in and nothing has changed, it’s not getting done.
The job of fixing this slag heap.
Wow. Seriously?
I work in a hospital. I see the nurses take on extra / double shifts to fill the gaps. The expectation to not let anyone down.
COVID etc.
And the are very well paid for the over time.
But I also see the exhaustion. The pressure it puts on their lives. The burn out. The high turnover.
It’s just not sustainable.
It’s optional.
No one forces them to do it.
“Hey can you do an extra shift this week”
“No sorry”
“Ok”
Easy.
Nothing to write to Jason Schrier about….
We’re not talking about frontline medical staff either. We’re talking about game developers…. Who for the most part can work from home anyway….
What i gather from all this is that “slay or play” just don’t die.
the spread shows that the only thing that matters is DO NOT DIE.
Staying alive is key for the point spread (K/D) or time on objective.
So remember don’t die kids.
@Darwi since you are such a big fan of the system, any explanation for this?
https://halotracker.com/halo-infinite/match/2b1ac3ea-135b-4fef-b4cc-7f5c48588899
destroying a d5 and an onyx, going kda of 12, on a winning streak, steaktactular. not ONE CSR. xD
edit: let me guess… the curve. ;D
Average MMRs were 1296 to 1134.
So your team were solid favourites?
I imagine they had been waiting a while for a game (as a squad) and this was the best the system could throw them. And TBH I don’t know if the 1134 includes their squad weighting or not.
You got to flex a bit. Congrats - you had a good one.
And it wasn’t so much the Onyx and D5 that was their undoing. It was the D2 and G1 - going 4 & 23 between them.
And while I love me some curves… I really don’t like teams who are grinding by sandbagging. That Onyx player has been teamed up with that Gold player for the last 7 or 8 games. Grinding his MMR from 1550 to 1582.
It was great you guys slowed him down a bit.
Still tryna figure out how I get two golds on my team while I’m Onyx at the same time as playing against a team of D2, D5, Onyx, D6.
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So close 
Religions don’t tend to rely so much on actual facts / data / science.
Same here. Im platin 2 in ranked. Always searching solo in ranked matchmaking.
Few days ago my teamates were: 1 Onyx, 1 Silver, 1 Gold
The other Team: 4 Platin
We lost. 
The good thing about the ranking system: it’s completely irrelevant how you play or if u finish the game. Since I obviously reached a cap at d3 where I gain 1-3 CSR per win, no matter who the opponents are and how well/bad I play, quitting out in losing games, bad servers and bad teammates doesnt matter at all. Im back at D3 in no time and I don’t have to bother with crappy games.
So I only play fun games, doesn’t care about the rank and all in all its a much more relaxed experience:)
if the matchmaking/rank system was so good no one would complain.
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