The CSR formula has been broken since launch and I don’t think they’ll change it. I’m losing 3-10 CSR for losing a 3v4 game. I also win 3-10 CSR for winning a 4v4 game. I win 1-2 CSR for winning a 4v3 game. It’s so depressing to see they haven’t even remotely tested the CSR formula. Thankfully you still go up very slightly over time, since there’s more odds of having someone crash/quit on the other team than yours (assuming you don’t quit or crash), but I agree, it feels like performance doesn’t matter at all.
1 Like
We’re on a new game. Those are good key points as to why the games are different, but this is a new one, and your individual skill does still matter. How else are there solo players in the 2000 range? I don’t need to look up your stats or anything like that to try and make a point. I’m just asking, if playing to get to a high skill level was the goal, how far have you gotten in this one knowing the top is at 2000s? I can see someone saying the game is boring, not satisfying if they’re already close to that peak or on that peak because it’s like…ok.been there done that…didn’t feel rewarding. To say that and not be there though, to say it’s uninteresting etc, but if you aren’t close to it, all that means is that there’s much to improve and learn in the game to get there if getting there was a feat desired. It’s not at all to shame anyone’s stats because what matters to you matters to you. Some people desire reaching that peak. Others just play the game and that’s more like a side bonus.
You’ve said lots of times in different threads that you hit champ 1 in h5. I’ve never looked it up. To me your points don’t rest on your highest rank achieved. I can tell how much you know about 5 just by how you describe it. It saddens me to see someone so uninterested in the new game, but at the same time how you describe this one gives a sensation of a struggle you feel in your games where…its perhaps the entire match of you just wishing it felt different, met a different expectation you had for it. On the side note, it also shows that you really haven’t put much into the game for those reasons, and I do believe reaching a peak would satisfy you, but if the base game play doesn’t right now i understand your choice not to care about that.
Your right. And I don’t have that high of a rank right now but as you said it’s because “I’m always wishing it was different” while I was playing. I can’t grind like that. I have to have passion in it for me to actually put effort in to grind and I just dont have that here. You say your sad people don’t feel good about this game but I feel sad that Halo 5 gameplay didn’t get the chance it deserved. The gameplay itself was drowned in bad press about the campagin and the req stuff. I truly believe HCS settings from Halo 5 was “combat evolved”
If I were to reach the peak and become the best player in this game I wouldn’t feel good about it because my gameplay wouldn’t be unique. People had far more varying playstyles in halo 5 and it was far more interesting to know who was on top and why. I was master with the abilites. I was known for making the craziest jumps. Even in the beginning I was top 3 in the world for ground pounds. The skill ceiling was incredibly high. There was always a new jump to learn and the more I learned. The more combos I did the better than game got for me. The more exciting it got. Now it’s just the same gameplay loop over and over again. I just can’t get behind it
I was the guy who said “had halo 5 came out with a different name without the word halo in it, it’s reception would have been extremely different and evolved into a something more its next iteration” something to that extent. So I agree with it being an under appreciated game for what it was. It’s like the smash bros of halo with all the little things to learn, much how I believe the old smash bros has this die hard cult following still, 5 still has its die hard players still playing it.
What is unique to each player is the chess aspect of this halo. The mind games. The decision making. That was a factor in 5, but imho, you could raw out skill players faster than they can trap you in that game. The raw skill had some mud in its water though with the behind the scenes mechanics but that’s a different topic. So it has a pro and con for that in and of itself. Very satisfying to outplay people in both games, but its done very differently in them. In one you have 2 players with equal base traits, perhaps weapons can be dynamic but not always. In the other, this is sometimes true in the outplay, but sometimes you have a rock to their scissors. The equipment. So I’ve understood when you bring this up in other threads. Perhaps this is the mud to the water for you. It’s not to say you can’t outplay with just your br and grenades, skill etc, but to make a fair point we have this comparison.
Infinite has some crazy jumps in it that feel way more difficult to me that anything I learned in 5. I knew all the jumps In that game. This game has something called an overjump and underjump. Jumps you could perform without equipment. The map layouts are different though, so as far as maximum usefulness, is different than it was for say a h5 thread of movement commands you’d pull off into your outplay. I think 5 has more areas to to come from in fights. It’s both good and bad though. I’m pretty sure I talked about a bunch of stuff with you when comparing the 2 games so I won’t go over anything that I’ve pretty much said in the past.
This is semi off topic, but how you feel about this game is how I felt when I played destiny. That sensation is so strong, the wishing the game was different, that I abandoned it. Halo gets updates to playlist, forge, customs browser etc…so…there’s a silver lining to that dark cloud…but…who knows when that will even become available…we get an ETA…and it never feels like a true ETA at times…or…we’re given something…in our heads its one thing…in the game another.
I posted this reply again cause my phones acting up and idk if the other one went through.
Oh yeah. There are hard jumps for sure. I found out about super slides days within playing. While it may be different I was able to get a lot done in halo 5 with just the Sprint and the slide so a lot of pro jumps barely look cool because you can do those types of jumps and MORE in halo 5.
What captured me the most is the momentum of the ablities. Your speed affected how the ability reacted. So when you go to Sprint and stabilize it will carry you farther then just jumping into it and then adding a slide made it faster and then a thrust slide even faster.
If I were to think about this system in real life that’s exactly how it should react because of gravity. That’s why to me it adds another layer to combat because it’s not just a gimmick. In halo 5 it feels like I’m in a car with really good brakes and I can stop on a dime at any moment. Canceling the moves of the ablities made it so that you have independence of where you are in a a 3d sphere. In halo infnite if feels like I’m on an ice rink constantly. Someone said in a party chat that people are starting not to jump in competitive Halo and I got sad because Halo is a qauke like game. Your suppose to be bouncing every where doing platforming while grabbing weapons not staying grounded like in call of duty always sprinting and sliding everywhere.
Classic is a different thing. You can’t clamber or even attempt to slide anything so in nature it’s competitive because it’s limited comepletly. Halo infinite it just feels like a half and half. The middle. You can’t do the middle right. it’ll never work. That’s why Halo 4 and Halo reach failed because it was the same concept. Other people having different abilites on field as other players.
Halo 2 and halo 5 did it right. Funny enough Halo 2 is my first and favourite Halo and Halo 5 is my next favourite after that
Also I know what you mean by mud in the water.
People are making grimey plays already but that’s always been in a thing in every Halo in the beginning.
Halo 5 had its fair sure and some of it isn’t even known. I’ve seen people break Halo 5 in ways that you just question your exsistince.
I don’t how else to explain it. You should do some reading on ELO systems. The beauty of the system is that it can find your approximate level very quickly… but to sort the actual order of a group of players takes a lot of games between those players.
The reality of Infinite is that hardly any of those players are actually playing each other regularly. So picking the top 200 is just guessing.
But if that floats your boat?
That’s on you. Not everyone is Onyx. And statements such that come across as condescending.
I don’t know the actual break down in Infinite… but it’s probably somewhere around 2-4%. Is that not enough?
And I don’t get why people thought ‘50’ was a reward for their efforts - but Onyx isn’t. I guess it’s some psychological thing about being at the maximum number. Especially because an Onyx is higher skill than 50 used to be.
Again it sounded cool. But the system can’t accurately sort out who is #45 or #76 - so why lie to the player to make them feel good about themselves?
Some sort of 'Champ" status could be awarded to high Onxy players… as I suggested, maybe for reaching a certain MMR for a period of time. But trying to put an actual ranking number on that player in the absence of a formal tournament structure is ludicrous.
Someone is always at the top tho. Someone at any given time always has the top stats in the game. Meaning that top stat should be champoin 1. Even if it fluctuates whoever is at the top would still be consider champ 1. Are you saying that the numbers change to fast to give a champ rank because onnce someone is one the top they can have their place taken in seconds by another person in another game?
There are advantages to having them separated.
They can protect against rank moving opposite to the result… and soften wild swings. Especially early in the season when your rank is more volatile.
I mean people are already freaking now.
The main situation is where you just cross into a new rank. The separation means the system can buffer and stop you ranking up and down with each win/loss.
I’m saying that;
-
The numbers become less significant as you drift out further. And grinding out a few extra wins against lower ranked players (who are your available opponents) is not really reflecting any increase in your skill.
-
The system is making a lot of guesses at the top end. It could eventually rank everyone is order of skill if everyone played enough games against each other. But this isn’t going to happen.
-
The numbers do change. And if population is healthy enough there could easily be hundreds of players around the same MMR. Can you imagine the angst if you made #1 and then suddenly lost Champ status entirely despite winning (or not even playing).
The inherent problem is people are grinding their MMR. It’s not the way it works (and probably why they kept the actual number hidden all these years). To work properly it needs a structure of regular tournaments.
1 Like
I lost every single placement match. My KD was <0.50, and I was consistently bottom on the leaderboard.
I was put into Diamond 1.
Please tell me how this works. I should be in Bronze.
2 Likes
That’s exactly how it worked tho. When I was in the top 50 of the champ ranks I would constantly go down in rank the more I didn’t play. If an hour went by and you were top ten and you didn’t play your top ten would be taken.
Either way I’m arena specifcally boosting is a thing and reverse boosting so unless you have a full team it’s hard to gauge what someone’s rank is based on individual play.
His main point is that your stats shouldn’t depict top player. Playing against the top players and fighting it out amongst each other is what should decide top player order. Not a race of csr through stats in games that ultimately don’t matter. It sounds great on paper that someone can reach a rank called champ 1, but if you look at their match history and see them in lobbies that are mixed that sometimes don’t even have a really high onyx let alone a similar champ…it becomes less and less meaningful. That’s why he’s basically like
“If it floats your boat”
I watch some of the pros stream sometimes…and dude it’s painful to watch 1 guy at the top in a lobby so far beneath his skill getting almost 80 kills when his peer is in another lobby against a stacked team while he’s playing alone and might even win only to get 1 csr point. We don’t live in a perfect world, and it seems hard to really attain a perfect ranking system when so many other factors are in place. Like, it’s more that players are grouped into tiers than anything else…but even still, under close inspection we just see this too often where the player at the top can have super inflated stats from somehow just getting these matches he or she shouldn’t have at all. It’s just how MM works sometimes. Not to say that reaching the tail end of csr and mmr is meaningless, but at a certain point where peers should face each other it seems like they aren’t as often as they should.
I have found that KD doesn’t matter, and it goes based off game score (high kills definitely helps).
In your situation, and likely why many people are seeing onyx as inflated and very easy to obtain is your mmr is very high. You are likely playing against high rated onyx players every game resulting in you playing poorly. Now the problem is losing doesn’t seem to lower ones MMR very fast, if at all.
So even though you lost all placements, you were still playing against onyx, so the game put in you the closest rank to onyx it can and that is currently D1. And even if you continue to play and lose most of your games, if your MMR doesn’t go down you too will eventually get to onyx too.
The published article on TrueSkill2 talks about a weighting for kills per minute.
Rating games are a different beast.
Your “skill curve” is wider (large standard deviation)… so the system is a bit more forgiving. It’s just trying to ball park you as quickly as possible.
You may have lost / struggled in the placements - but the system saw enough in your performance to grade you as Diamond 1 or above. You must of at least held your own in games vs Diamond 1… and struggled appropriately if you played higher ranked teams.
There is no way you should be Bronze. It would only place you Bronze if you played other teams ranked Bronze and lost.
People are expecting too much of the MMR. It’s a (match making) ranking tool. Not an XP grinding mechanism.
The old format of Champ doesn’t make sense.
Maybe they could just put a star next to your Onxy ranking if you are in the top 1%. At least that (probably) has some statistical significance.
Some people sure as hell like to generalize players experience. It’s not easy at all to get Onyx for me.
I was Onyx in H5. In this game they put me in Plat 4 first. I level’d up to D4 super easy like everyone’s saying. Going up even when losing sometimes.
But now I’m in the purgatory that is D5. I go positive most games, but when I win I go up by a tiny amount. When I lose, I lose a quarter of a rank. And I check their ranks postgame to figure out why it is like it is but it’s not because they’re much higher or lower.
I don’t know if it’s rigged or what, but everytime I get to half D5, I lose 5+ games in a row and I go straight back to D4. It happened about 10 times since 2-3 weeks.
Beating a team close to you in rank only gives you a small increase rank.
Losing to a team that is of lower skill costs you dearly. There is a weighting to losing (or at least there was in H5). And/or the system is realigning your CSR with your MMR now that you finally lost a game.
If you are stuck at D4… dare I say it could because you are a D4 (in Infinite at this point of time). And that’s not bad… not a criticism in anyway. I dream of being a D4.
For whatever reason, the teams you play in are functioning at D4.
Part of that may be out of your control. Part of that may be on you. I don’t know.
I dont understand why me, a diamond 1 in solo controllers, 436 games, (diamond 3 on crossplay) is being paired up with a Plat 1 new player with 44 games and a super negative KD. I’ve noticed every single I have played I am either the highest rank, or the only person playing objective. My team has lost ME so many games, as condescending as this sounds. I know I am not alone, you are trying your heart out, aiming at your best, moving around the map the best you can, holding choke points, guarding power weapons and abilities. Playing the F objective, most likely with the most objective points. While your team runs around getting kills, or simply running the wrong way and just going where no enemies, or the objective is to just die.
People seem to just be awful at this game on the average, and all the players who are invested in the competitive side of halo have to carry these players on our backs because ranked is not only being forced on players to progress, but also so easily enterable and they easily rank up to platinum or diamond due to THEIR team mate winning the game for them.
I won a ranked match with me holding the ball for 2.5 minutes and my fireteam mate holding it for the remaining 30 seconds, and yet, the dude who was AFK and got 3 kills and 28 deaths ranked up more than me and my friend who did ALL OF THE WORK.
Ranked is seriously the worst way to experience halo RN