The progression system is bad—here's how to fix it

Games Halo Infinite
1

343i has unveiled that their system of progression for the Battlepass is solely tied to the challenge system. This isn’t good for multiple reasons—I will explain the reasons why and offer changes I think will benefit everybody.

1. Not every match will grant XP—this feels bad!
If XP is only granted for completing challenges, that means there will be matches where the XP bar doesn’t move at all. Not only does this feel bad, it also disadvantages progress for players who don’t have a lot of time to play.

For example, if you only have time to play two matches one night, and one of your challenges is “complete 1 match,” there’s a good chance that second match you play won’t grant you any XP at all. I’m an adult with little time to play, but I’d like to be able to rank up the Battlepass I’ve paid for even though I can’t play all the time.

2. Depending on the types of challenges, this could have a negative effect on gameplay.
If there are challenges like “get 10 sniper kills,” one can only imagine matches where everyone rushes for the sniper and the ensuing potential for griefing. Specific challenges (like weapon challenges or style challenges) encourage players to orient their play style around challenge completion if they want to progress, directly affecting gameplay—not good for an arena style game!

3. Challenges frequently feel more like chores than anything—not fun.
If a player wants to progress, a list of challenges can feel like a chore list, often encouraging you to play modes or use play styles you might ordinarily not be interested in. Let us play how we want to play and progress at the same time.

4. XP boosts will be difficult to use properly.
These boosts only last a short while. It will be a pain to time using them correctly for when we’re expected to finish a challenge within the boost time frame.

…
So how would I fix it? Easy. Let medals and match completion also grant progress.

1. Medals exist—use them!
Medals have been in every Halo game, and they’re the perfect system to grant players XP. Medals feel rewarding already, but they could feel even better! Imagine playing the game of your life—Perfection! Running Riot! Triple Kill! And then seeing all the XP rack up from each individual medal.

Not only does this fix the issue of some matches potentially not granting XP, but it would also allow players to play how they want. It would also incentivize playing the game properly, where objective medals and assist medals actually reward the player.

2. Grant XP for completing matches—hell, grant extra for completing multiple without quitting!
Quitters suck but so would getting no XP for having a game where you get no medals and complete no challenges. So what then? Grant XP when you complete a match. You could even have match completion sprees to discourage quitting, where more consecutive match completions results in more XP.

In summary, having progress tied solely to challenges is a bad idea that I believe is likely in place to get people to spend money. That sucks. Make medals and match completion give XP too.

I hope my thoughts are clear. What does everyone think?

2

Medals for xp make a lot of sense to me. Personally I liked reach which offered many options. They had challenges, commendations, xp for matches, xp for rank in matches, and a slot machine to test luck as well (justifiably controversially though).

I want more ways to level up allowing many players to do their own style at their own pace, pigeoning everyone to just one way to level up seems like going back literal decades. It is a decision I dont think I will ever be able to understand outside an obvious motivation of greed. I hope I am dead wrong, MCC BP was actually better than I thought it would be so who knows, but if I am being honest I am incredibly skeptical at this point.

3

Ok. The problem isn’t the progressive system. It’s the spoiled.um…people who want more and more regardless of anything.

4

I find the exp system in most games to be boring and pointless, it’s refreshing that it won’t have it.

If anything challenges can usually be accomplished in a handful of games so you will have players who can jump on for an hour a day to progress but 100s of hours aren’t needed. I like that as someone who gets less time to play.

People will still play for enjoyment, I doubt many players play to raise their social rank.

5

> 2533274852319616;3:
> Ok. The problem isn’t the progressive system. It’s the spoiled.um…people who want more and more regardless of anything.

You gonna comment on my actual points or just use a strawman argument to insult me?

> 2533274801036271;4:
> I find the exp system in most games to be boring and pointless, it’s refreshing that it won’t have it.
>
> If anything challenges can usually be accomplished in a handful of games so you will have players who can jump on for an hour a day to progress but 100s of hours aren’t needed. I like that as someone who gets less time to play.
>
> People will still play for enjoyment, I doubt many players play to raise their social rank.

By XP I just meant the system the handles Battlepass progression—not anything like a visible rank. And yes, I play for enjoyment too, but unlocking cosmetics is enjoyable for a lot of players, which is why I suggested these alterations to improve the system for a lot of players.

6

I think giving a bunch of XP for winning a match will also have a great effect. As is, people will be sprinting for that sniper rifle to complete their sniper challenge and deliberately forfeiting the match. This is not fun. There should be a huge incentive to actually winning a match, otherwise winning becomes meaningless and the game ceases to be competitive

7

> 2533274846978810;6:
> I think giving a bunch of XP for winning a match will aalso have a great effect. As is, people will be sprinting for that sniper rifle to complete their aniper challenge and deliberately forfeiting the match. This is not fun. There should be a huge incentive to actually winning a match, otherwise winning becomes meaningless and the game ceases to be competitive

Agreed. They could be using the BP progression system to encourage and foster better game play but instead limit it to challenges which, ideally, won’t be overly specific so as to affect gameplay negatively but will be limited nevertheless.

Like I just wanna play the game how I’d like to any given day and level up. That doesn’t seem like a wild concept to me, especially as someone who will only be able to play a few matches a night if I’m lucky.

8

Remember back the days, when you unlock stuff by achievements, or ingame currency like Credits in Reach?

Or when a AAA-Halo title was released with content, a totally fine working progress and reward system?
Well thanks for all the effort to destroy stuff like that @-Yoink!- and 343.

You will never see me paying for XP-Bonusses.

9

I would rather people be rewarded for being good and completing challenges than just grinding the game down for Time in Game rewards. The system makes sense to me in that aspect.

10

> 2533274852319616;3:
> Ok. The problem isn’t the progressive system. It’s the spoiled.um…people who want more and more regardless of anything.

that’s right dude, you took the word out of my mouth.

11

> 2533274852319616;3:
> Ok. The problem isn’t the progressive system. It’s the spoiled.um…people who want more and more regardless of anything.

“Show concern that challenges can feel like a chore, and that they can alter the way people play, negatively affecting the matches for other participants”.

Your response: Oh how spoiled people are.

> 2540646754085145;9:
> I would rather people be rewarded for being good and completing challenges than just grinding the game down for Time in Game rewards. The system makes sense to me in that aspect.

And doing, say
-5000 kills / month
-Capture 50 flags / month
-500 splatters / month
-100 sniper kills / week
-250 “worst weapon kills” / week

Isn’t grinding?

12

Nice points. I want to see how the challenges will actually be (since the flight was bugged with them according to Unyshek) but it’s slightly worrying and kind of confusing.

13

> 2540646754085145;9:
> I would rather people be rewarded for being good and completing challenges than just grinding the game down for Time in Game rewards. The system makes sense to me in that aspect.

Getting multi kill medals, spree medals, objective medals, assist medals, style medals, etc. aren’t measures of “being good”?

14

Aslong as there is a spartan type ranking system I am happy we will have weekly events too. Time will tell though.

15

> 2533274795123910;11:
> > 2533274852319616;3:
> > Ok. The problem isn’t the progressive system. It’s the spoiled.um…people who want more and more regardless of anything.
>
> “Show concern that challenges can feel like a chore, and that they can alter the way people play, negatively affecting the matches for other participants”.
>
> Your response: Oh how spoiled people are.
>
>
>
>
> > 2540646754085145;9:
> > I would rather people be rewarded for being good and completing challenges than just grinding the game down for Time in Game rewards. The system makes sense to me in that aspect.
>
> And doing, say
> -5000 kills / month
> -Capture 50 flags / month
> -500 splatters / month
> -100 sniper kills / week
> -250 “worst weapon kills” / week
>
> Isn’t grinding?

I think the problem is more that the challenges are maybe too few. Like you are not good with the sniper but - when you are unlucky - you have to complete two weekly challenges were you have to make sniper kills and headshot with an sniper.

Simply solution would be more if it would be like “kill X enemies with the sniper, x enemies with a shotgun or x enemies with the gravity hammer”. Giving people more variarity.
Or “complete 50 matches of any playlist, 35 matches of BTB or 35 matches of Team Objective”. This would work way better.

16

> 2533274861263132;15:
> > 2533274795123910;11:
> > > 2533274852319616;3:
> > > Ok. The problem isn’t the progressive system. It’s the spoiled.um…people who want more and more regardless of anything.
> >
> > “Show concern that challenges can feel like a chore, and that they can alter the way people play, negatively affecting the matches for other participants”.
> >
> > Your response: Oh how spoiled people are.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2540646754085145;9:
> > > I would rather people be rewarded for being good and completing challenges than just grinding the game down for Time in Game rewards. The system makes sense to me in that aspect.
> >
> > And doing, say
> > -5000 kills / month
> > -Capture 50 flags / month
> > -500 splatters / month
> > -100 sniper kills / week
> > -250 “worst weapon kills” / week
> >
> > Isn’t grinding?
>
> I think the problem is more that the challenges are maybe too few. Like you are not good with the sniper but - when you are unlucky - you have to complete two weekly challenges were you have to make sniper kills and headshot with an sniper.
>
> Simply solution would be more if it would be like “kill X enemies with the sniper, x enemies with a shotgun or x enemies with the gravity hammer”. Giving people more variarity.
> Or “complete 50 matches of any playlist, 35 matches of BTB or 35 matches of Team Objective”. This would work way better.

Not for people like me who don’t have time to complete that many matches or get that many kills in any given day, week or month. Then I’m left earning almost no progression. This is why progression should happen every match with challenges acting as bonuses and additional means.

17

> 2533274870929230;16:
> > 2533274861263132;15:
> > > 2533274795123910;11:
> > > > 2533274852319616;3:
> > > > Ok. The problem isn’t the progressive system. It’s the spoiled.um…people who want more and more regardless of anything.
> > >
> > > “Show concern that challenges can feel like a chore, and that they can alter the way people play, negatively affecting the matches for other participants”.
> > >
> > > Your response: Oh how spoiled people are.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2540646754085145;9:
> > > > I would rather people be rewarded for being good and completing challenges than just grinding the game down for Time in Game rewards. The system makes sense to me in that aspect.
> > >
> > > And doing, say
> > > -5000 kills / month
> > > -Capture 50 flags / month
> > > -500 splatters / month
> > > -100 sniper kills / week
> > > -250 “worst weapon kills” / week
> > >
> > > Isn’t grinding?
> >
> > I think the problem is more that the challenges are maybe too few. Like you are not good with the sniper but - when you are unlucky - you have to complete two weekly challenges were you have to make sniper kills and headshot with an sniper.
> >
> > Simply solution would be more if it would be like “kill X enemies with the sniper, x enemies with a shotgun or x enemies with the gravity hammer”. Giving people more variarity.
> > Or “complete 50 matches of any playlist, 35 matches of BTB or 35 matches of Team Objective”. This would work way better.
>
> Not for people like me who don’t have time to complete that many matches or get that many kills in any given day, week or month. Then I’m left earning almost no progression. This is why progression should happen every match with challenges acting as bonuses and additional means.

Forgot to mention that :smiley:

Yes, the only really good and best solution would be progress through EXP through matches, not by achieving challenges which - as you said - should more work like an bonus.

Myself work 40 hours a week, have a gf, private responsebilities and when I play, I shouldn’t be forced to grind/buy stuff to get forward into that pass.
More and more I think -Yoink!- and 343 want just those kids from fortnite to spend parents cash-card into that game.

18

I like it!! Could also have it so that the harder medals grant more XP as well. Getting perfections could give you a decent amount of XP, compared to just a double kill. Medals could feel amazing like you said, and it gives players the freedom back. I support this.

19

> 2535413973616628;18:
> I like it!! Could also have it so that the harder medals grant more XP as well. Getting perfections could give you a decent amount of XP, compared to just a double kill. Medals could feel amazing like you said, and it gives players the freedom back. I support this.

Exactly! Perfections and killimanjaros feel amazing already, but seeing the XP bonus for it would feel even better and would let people progress without having to worry about challenges.

20

I think your suggestions are great!
Using medals to award XP works because you have to play to earn them. That way, anyone AFK-ing will only be awarded for match complete.

But I’d like to suggest a new medal.
Nappin’ Out Back - Awarded for every 60 seconds a controller receives no input, or unchanged input (for the rubber band clan).
You could attach a negative XP value to the medal, so if a standard loose/win payout was 2000 and 3000, this medal could deduct 250 every time earned.

I also really like the No Quit Streak.
It could start low and increase to a max value over the corse of say 5 matches. It would need to be worth it though, otherwise it wouldn’t function as a deterrent.
Again, if the loose/win is 2000 and 3000 as a standard, you could be awarded 300 for your first match, 600 for your second, etc over 5 matches. So at max earnings, you’d be at 3500 for a loss and 4500 for a win.
You could also implement a cool down timer for anyone who does quit, so that the bonus won’t be applied to games played for half an hour.
In think that would be enough of an incentive not to needlessly quit matches. I know we all end up playing matches that we don’t like, but hey ho.