The problem with Infection/Living Dead

I love to play Living Dead in Halo Reach. I don’t like Halo 4 so much so I never play it, and I don’t really like Flood mode either.

But, there is a big flaw with this gametype. It is the scoring system.

The Living Dead gametype shouldn’t be about getting as much kills as possible. That’s what every player tries to do. Go on their own and get as much headshots as possible. It’s basically a team game of 1 team against another with one team starting small, but eventually getting bigger.

This is a big bummer. I say we shouldn’t make the kills the big focus in this. What we should make the big focus is the SURVIVAL TIME. That way the humans will work more as a team and try to survive the horrofying zombie outbreak!

I also have a lot of ideas for Infection, and Forge mode. But I won’t go and say all my ideas because it is pretty pointless. But I just wanted to say this, and since it was a short time to write this I did it.

I hope 343 will make Halo X1 an amazing Halo game! And I hope they’ll make Forge, Infection and custom games blow my mind, since those 3 modes are my favorite things ever in a Halo game!

I agree. I think what you said is obvious and something that should have been implemented from the start.

But one of the things that keeps me from playing Flood, and recent iterations of Reach Living Dead is the difficulty to kill Flood in Halo 4 (as they’re equipped with shields and crazy-Yoink! armor abilities) and in Reach the elimination of so-called “camping spots” (like the roof of the center building of the Cage).

I don’t understand why 343 don’t understand that people like harmless exploits. For example skillful button combos from Halo 2 were removed simply because the unskilled couldn’t pull it off and one or two people complained. Same goes with the Living Dead. I never once saw or heard a person complaining about trick jump spots but nevertheless 343 immediately slapped on the soft kill zones on both the Cage and the invisible walkway of Adrift. Out-of-the-map glitches of Complex I can understand, but if anyone can easily use or access a spot it’s balanced.

@343 I have deep respect for you, but can you please let the game be fun?

> I agree. I think what you said is obvious and something that should have been implemented from the start.
>
> But one of the things that keeps me from playing Flood, and recent iterations of Reach Living Dead is the difficulty to kill Flood in Halo 4 (as they’re equipped with shields and crazy-Yoink! armor abilities) and in Reach the elimination of so-called “camping spots” (like the roof of the center building of the Cage).
>
> I don’t understand why 343 don’t understand that people like harmless exploits. For example skillful button combos from Halo 2 were removed simply because the unskilled couldn’t pull it off and one or two people complained. Same goes with the Living Dead. I never once saw or heard a person complaining about trick jump spots but nevertheless 343 immediately slapped on the soft kill zones on both the Cage and the invisible walkway of Adrift. Out-of-the-map glitches of Complex I can understand, but if anyone can easily use or access a spot it’s balanced.
>
> @343 I have deep respect for you, but can you please let the game be fun?

I totally agree. Not a single map should contain a stupid 10 second barrier on places where zombies also can easily jump onto. I mean, on almost every decent high spot in Halo Reach maps is a 10 second barrier. Especially on the maps that were edited to make the map look more broken and such.

Barriers suck. Put invisible barriers instead, and only on places that could make you glitch out of the map.

Invisible barriers should also be placeable in Forge or something.

And I really hate the fact that zombies get all kinds of weird stuff like Thrust pack, sprint and evade. A zombie doesn’t do that -Yoink-. I also want to feel scared of a zombie you know? Flood models in Halo 4 look limited… 343 should makes different zombie models. Normal zombies, and different kinds of Flood zombies. That way we have also more to work with in custom games and make more fun. :slight_smile:

Or better yet, let us create our own zombie and stuff in a character creation for Spartans and others like Elites. So you can edit stuff like broken armor, blood, cracks, flood infected parts and so on.

Oh, and remember the last mission in Halo Reach where you can get cracks in your visor? We should have the option to turn that on in this Halo game, plus more visual stuff! We also had some for Flood models in Halo 4, and certain powers.

Fun for the survivors, maybe.

But if I remember correctly, personally it wasn’t too much fun getting headshot’d the second you spawn or step outside, and the 5 minutes of deaths before one person out of 5 on the Cage roof finally dies.

Trick spots are cool and fun to use, but not so much when it makes things incredibly lopsided.
I would prefer a mix of Flood and Infection. Flood that can… “handle” themselves nicely (though maybe not so powerful AAs), but a map system that provides better balance. Holdout spots that fit well into the map and gameplay are fine, I like those. But not areas with one way to go in and countless deaths before one of the several campers is finally killed.
I remember my friend groaning everytime he was chosen as Infected.

> I agree. I think what you said is obvious and something that should have been implemented from the start.
>
> But one of the things that keeps me from playing Flood, and recent iterations of Reach Living Dead is the difficulty to kill Flood in Halo 4 (as they’re equipped with shields and crazy-Yoink! armor abilities) and in Reach the elimination of so-called “camping spots” (like the roof of the center building of the Cage).
>
> I don’t understand why 343 don’t understand that people like harmless exploits. For example skillful button combos from Halo 2 were removed simply because the unskilled couldn’t pull it off and one or two people complained. Same goes with the Living Dead. I never once saw or heard a person complaining about trick jump spots but nevertheless 343 immediately slapped on the soft kill zones on both the Cage and the invisible walkway of Adrift. Out-of-the-map glitches of Complex I can understand, but if anyone can easily use or access a spot it’s balanced.
>
> @343 I have deep respect for you, but can you please let the game be fun?

This has been said many times before and I’ll say it again, Halo: Reach’s Living Dead playlist was a plague in itself.

Problem #1 would be that there were NO maps designed for the Zombies gametype. This led to overall poor gameplay that consisted of 8 dudes camping on the Tower of Power on Ascension while the Zombies got to have no choice but to mindlessly rush the tower until the survivors died. It was duck hunt for the Humans and a slow, miserable crawl for the Zombies, needless to say it was bad. The spots took no skill or tricks to get to and provided numerous positives and no negatives to the Humans in those spots. If you don’t think anyone was complaining about it or hated it I have no idea where you were.

As for making the score system based on survival time, I feel that is fair, but there should still be smaller points awarded for kills and saving/helping teammates. For example, every second a Human stays alive would be 1 point, while every kill would also be a point.

Another painfully obvious thing that should’ve been done long ago is an official gametype for Journey maps. Once a Human reaches the end of the level they are “safe”, but this can end in a couple ways.

  1. A timer starts and any other Humans must reach the end in that time or they will not have survived.
  2. Humans in the end zone are not safe from death and must wait a period of time before an action renders them safe from the Zombies. Examples: door closes, pelican takes Humans in it away from map, bridge or pathway separates Humans from Zombies.

> Fun for the survivors, maybe.
>
> But if I remember correctly, personally it wasn’t too much fun getting headshot’d the second you spawn or step outside, and the 5 minutes of deaths before one person out of 5 on the Cage roof finally dies.
>
>
> Trick spots are cool and fun to use, but not so much when it makes things incredibly lopsided.
> I would prefer a mix of Flood and Infection. Flood that can… “handle” themselves nicely (though maybe not so powerful AAs), but a map system that provides better balance. Holdout spots that fit well into the map and gameplay are fine, I like those. But not areas with one way to go in and countless deaths before one of the several campers is finally killed.
> I remember my friend groaning everytime he was chosen as Infected.

True… But now this.

Who says we will have both the Pistol and shotgun again in Halo X1 Living Dead?

There could be different playlists too. The ones we have now are terrible though, except for Alpha Zombies. Infection have those annoying evades, and I don’t even want to start about Zombie Ghosts…

But what I am trying to say is that we can have a different playstyle this around. Maybe one weapon for each spartan. Or still 2 weapons but with very few ammo. All things are possible.

We can also have a gametype where humans only have their fists as a weapon.

Just saying that I hope there will be a lot of awesome options.

> > I agree. I think what you said is obvious and something that should have been implemented from the start.
> >
> > But one of the things that keeps me from playing Flood, and recent iterations of Reach Living Dead is the difficulty to kill Flood in Halo 4 (as they’re equipped with shields and crazy-Yoink! armor abilities) and in Reach the elimination of so-called “camping spots” (like the roof of the center building of the Cage).
> >
> > I don’t understand why 343 don’t understand that people like harmless exploits. For example skillful button combos from Halo 2 were removed simply because the unskilled couldn’t pull it off and one or two people complained. Same goes with the Living Dead. I never once saw or heard a person complaining about trick jump spots but nevertheless 343 immediately slapped on the soft kill zones on both the Cage and the invisible walkway of Adrift. Out-of-the-map glitches of Complex I can understand, but if anyone can easily use or access a spot it’s balanced.
> >
> > @343 I have deep respect for you, but can you please let the game be fun?
>
> This has been said many times before and I’ll say it again, Halo: Reach’s Living Dead playlist was a plague in itself.
>
> Problem #1 would be that there were NO maps designed for the Zombies gametype. This led to overall poor gameplay that consisted of 8 dudes camping on the Tower of Power on Ascension while the Zombies got to have no choice but to mindlessly rush the tower until the survivors died. It was duck hunt for the Humans and a slow, miserable crawl for the Zombies, needless to say it was bad. The spots took no skill or tricks to get to and provided numerous positives and no negatives to the Humans in those spots. If you don’t think anyone was complaining about it or hated it I have no idea where you were.
>
> As for making the score system based on survival time, I feel that is fair, but there should still be smaller points awarded for kills and saving/helping teammates. For example, every second a Human stays alive would be 1 point, while every kill would also be a point.
>
> Another painfully obvious thing that should’ve been done long ago is an official gametype for Journey maps. Once a Human reaches the end of the level they are “safe”, but this can end in a couple ways.
> 1) A timer starts and any other Humans must reach the end in that time or they will not have survived.
> 2) Humans in the end zone are not safe from death and must wait a period of time before an action renders them safe from the Zombies. Examples: door closes, pelican takes Humans in it away from map, bridge or pathway separates Humans from Zombies.

Defintely. There were no good maps for Living Dead. That is why we need a map creator in this Halo game so we can create the best experience! :slight_smile:

> Defintely. There were no good maps for Living Dead. That is why we need a map creator in this Halo game so we can create the best experience! :slight_smile:

A map creator isn’t a necessity, although it is highly desired for many reasons, Zombies doesn’t need a new fancy-schmancy map creator to make good maps. Halo 3 had plenty of good/okay Zombie maps, and although I haven’t played on any in Reach or 4 I’m sure there are some good maps from there too.

For the MM experience it all relies on 343i gaining some form of understanding about how Zombies functions and plays. If they take popular and properly balanced maps/gametypes from the community and put them in the playlist then all should just be fine.

its becuz of the AA’s i like it without them…

Camo or Decoy/clone i forgot the AA name ( Shame on me )

thats the only AA’s i would allow in infection.

  • i dont like where everything on the map is blocked… even a small ledge were EVERYBODY can get onto gets Barrier blocked… thats why 1 main thing about halo 2 was so great… you could go anywhere everywhere and there were so much fun things like super bounce/ small glitches etc… what didnt realy affect the game itself only in custom games…

I think in halo 5 they shouldnt make places reach able and then block it off with death barrier. then dont build it or change it in to something that works.

I think Hivemind plays better than standard Flood mode in Halo 4. Everyone starting with an AR and even shields between Flood and survivors feels perfect (except the SAW is pretty OP.)

Agreed.

People just run off and try to get the most kills and then get horribly slaughtered.

Infection should revolve around teamwork and survival.

That’s why I always played with friends in Halo 3.

We’re getting closer to the next Halo. Closer to news that is…

I really hope Infection isn’t screwed up this time, but improved! It’s one of my favortie things in Halo. Infection, Forge and custom games.

If infection is ruined, then I won’t buy the next Halo. Only rent it for the story.

I am just really worried. :[

> I don’t understand why 343 don’t understand that people like harmless exploits.

People also like -Yoink!-, drugs, violence, and money that isn’t there’s. That doesn’t mean you should give into these clearly harmful impulses (since remember for every zombie that’s exploited for a cheap kill a PERSON is too) because, guess what, what people like isn’t always what’s best for a civil population.

> > I don’t understand why 343 don’t understand that people like harmless exploits.
>
> People also like -Yoink!-, drugs, violence, and money that isn’t there’s. That doesn’t mean you should give into these clearly harmful impulses (since remember for every zombie that’s exploited for a cheap kill a PERSON is too) because, guess what, what people like isn’t always what’s best for a civil population.

What the heck are you on about?

My Opinion
Halo Xbox One: Flood 2.0 or rather Infection 5.0; should include more fear, paranoia and blood lust. But i think were going about it the wrong way… Survivors should always be working together as a team, resting on each others shoulders to survive; while Flood are just an endless wave of constant enemies, pounding at your defenses until your consumed.

My Idea
Here is my ideas to make Flood a more fearful, paranoid, blood lust filled match type, while adding some unique and fun features.

Smart-Time Maps (Unique, Fun)
343 Industries could actually make a few maps that has complex smart-time mechanics, that changes weather and lighting elements randomly, making each match unique. The smart-time map could constantly change with implemented weather like some matches it may be foggy, other raining sometimes it during the day and others at night. They also have unique features like open/closing doors and buildings to hold up into.

Smart-Time Map Example:
Think Halo 3:ODST campiagn level Mombassa Streets.

Sound Effects and Music (Fear, Paranoia, Bloodlust)
To really get fear, paranoia and blood lust feelings across in Flood, the sound effects and more specific game music, should be centered around these emotional tones, or situations. When the music changes, it gives players a ear curling feeling, and strikes the targeted emotion in people, create a lot of immersion.

Sound Effect and Music Example
Imagine your a survivor, and the music suddenly changes to a fast-paced action sound that signifies being in a firefight with the flood, and that your life is at risk. Or your exploring the map and trying to find somewhere to hold out, which could have paranoid exploration music playing. Or if your a Flood you go into a frenzy and the music speeds up, and becomes louder and more heavier. Or your a Survivor, and are running from flood, and the music becomes fearful and slightly high pitched… all these techniques can be used in various ways, to give a sense of emotion and immersion to players.

Survivors (Fear, Paranoia)
Survivors should have flash light, which are their armour abilities, they constantly go out, if not managed properly; and survivors have sprint, like in Halo 4; but only for matchmaking Invasion and Flood; competitive matches no way! The Survivors should have basic weapons, like in Hivemind which promotes teamwork, but have other weaponry pickups on map, and some other ones spawn in later, creating risk over reward moments.

Survivor Example
Imagine you and your fellow survivors are in a raining, night time match, so would have very poor visibility. You and your team mates are in a firefight with Flood, yet you don’t notice your flash light starts to die out… You loose almost all your visibility… making you even more fearful and scared, you try to sprint away but get caught in a flood ambush…

Flood (Bloodlust)
Flood players should have Promethean Vision, as their only armour ability, but it is slightly unique. It has the silhouette colors as green, yellow and brown (flood bio-mass color), instead of orange/red and white. This way it could actually imitate a pheromone, or biological, attraction to sentient life, so Flood Vision. It would work like Promethean Vision, but has a few changes… the Survivors would be brown, the terrain green, and a yellow pheromone trail, that lingers in the air, which shows survivors movements for like a few moments which leads to their hit box; thus gives a constant fear of being tracked by a flood form. They could also add a unique feature, that if a flood successfully infects 3 survivors, without dieing, he goes into a frenzy mode, which increases speed and damage (damage boost and speed boost). Survivors could know if their is a frenzied flood by a slight red glow around their hit box, like how damage boost is a red glow, the frenzy mode would only last a few moments, like how damage boost. Flood players should always have the Flood tentacle, as their base weapon.

Flood Example
Imagine your a flood, it is a foggy, night time map, which has poor visibility for the Survivors. The Flood forms use their flood vision and catch on to 3 survivors scents, or trails, they follow it to the source and unleash hell, you manage to infect all three. You then go into a frenzy mode and decimate most of their team, in one coordinated and swift move, the Survivors have become extremely fearful and uncoordinated as a team making it easy to pick off the last few stragglers.

Traps/Fortifications (Unique and Fun)
Maybe an auto turret or mini-dominion turret to assist players… or build defenses like deploy-able cover or building onto other objects…?

Traps/Fortifications Example
Survivors are trying to find a good place to hold up into, they find a building with an open/closing door, they get inside and deploy two deploy-able cover just behind the door, making a make-shift wall. The other survivors use the buildings balcony which overlooks the door and set up a few mini-dominion turrets. The Survivors then start patrolling, their defensive positions, and are hoping they survive.

Those button combos are no different from AA’s anyway. Useable to all and irritating to many. Plus they make the game go from “Halo” to “Super Master Chief Fighting Time.”

> I think Hivemind plays better than standard Flood mode in Halo 4. Everyone starting with an AR and even shields between Flood and survivors feels perfect (except the SAW is pretty OP.)

Touchdown. This.

> Those button combos are no different from AA’s anyway. Useable to all and irritating to many. Plus they make the game go from “Halo” to “Super Master Chief Fighting Time.”

Except you can always use them, as opposed to when you have to spawn with one or pick it up on the map. They also aren’t game-breaking, they are loved by many competitive and professional players, and they aren’t in other FPS.