The problem of balance remains relevant

The problem of balance remains relevant. I wrote to support, but there is no response.
They send an automatic response.
Quote: “Typically, balance problems are a matter of preference or misinterpretation of intended behavior.” Seriously?
Misinterpreting behavior?
When no one on my team goes to K/D 1, and on the opposing team everyone has K/D greater than 1 and so in 9 out of 10 matches, is it a matter of preference or a misinterpretation of behavior?
Or when the enemy team has a player with 30 kills and 2 deaths - is that too?
Support responds as if we have crooked hands. Like, learn to play. No, it’s not.
There is a balance problem. It is not clear on what principle it is based.
But not on K/D for sure.
Probably 343 wants the players to suffer as much as possible.
You die, you die, you die, you die, you lose, you lose, you lose, and there is not even a light.
There is no joy.
You play constantly at the limit of possibilities, but there is no result.
It’s exhausting both physically and mentally.
I feel like I’m in a tournament, and I go into normal mode, not even into the rankings.
It makes no sense to enter the rating at all, it is even worse there.
There is no logic at all.
Support does not want to help, 343 do not hear us. I don’t know what to do anymore.

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Your choices here are the same as they’ve ever been. You either play, or you don’t.

You’re just shouting into the void. Engagement telemetry matters more than your voiced opinion. If you’re not satisfied with the service, stop engaging.

And give me your Xbox.

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Your answer is very witty (no).

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The automation sees balance and thinks you mean in the sandbox. Your issue is matchmaking not balance as the automation understands the ticket.

According to HaloTracker you’ve won 197 matches and lost 160.

What’s that. Something like 45% W/L?

Hardly a classic sob story of lose, lose, lose.

And a K/D of 1.05 isn’t die, die, die… it’s more like kill, die, kill, die…

It seems that ranking / matchmaking is doing alright by you. Sure you are getting some dodgy team-mates - but it looks like you are getting the right balance of dodgy opponents to smooth it all out.

Do you mean social Team Slayer?

The mode where you have a 70% win record… and a 1.3 K/D?

Stop quitting games for one thing. Just wondering how many of those 105 games could have been wins?

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There is some logic, but you’d have to read their white paper on True Skill 2, Microsoft’s proprietary matchmaking system.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2018/03/trueskill2.pdf

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I’m not going to read their mathematical formulas and calculations. I am not a mathematician. I know one thing - what I see and what I feel during the game. Trueskill2 - works badly. Even if I get more than 1 K/D, my team is losing. I had 11 losses in a row. I thought on purpose. This not normal. You can’t win these matches. The enemy team constantly: either 1-2 players with K / D 1.10 - 1.15, and in my team they play with Chinese sticks while standing on their heads - as you understand, they are bad at it. Or matches where you tear victory with your teeth, with scores of 50/49 - and lose again. You win little with this score, but this victory does not bring pleasure at all. I’m exhausted and don’t feel like playing at all. Sweaty palms. I don’t care how they do it, how exactly they do matchmaking - they do it badly. Maybe it’s Trueskill2, maybe ping, maybe something else - I don’t know. And the numbers can be counted in different ways. I eat meat, you are pita bread, and on average we both eat shawarma.

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You don’t need to. You just need to know enough to appreciate it works.

Neither am I. But I am not going to argue maths against them.

I know one thing. Your HaloTracker record is a 70% W/L and a K/D over 1.

Not much of a leg to stand on.

Umm. Yeah. It’s a team game.

It’s not normal. But far from impossible.

And I didn’t have to scroll very far through your game history to find 10 wins in a row. I assume you didn’t rush here to post how unfair the game was treating your opponents.

Again. 70% win rate. You are either carrying your team supremely… or your opponents are getting the same mix of players.

I love those games. Win or lose. Epic.

If by score you mean CSR. You earn that by beating teams ranked above you. Beating someone ranked equal or below you isn’t going to earn you a lot of (if any) rank. That’s how modern ranking systems work.

In the context you complaining of sweaty palms and one point results - I’d say they are doing it pretty well.

Tell me again how you count a 70% winning record?

A K/D over 1?

A KDA of 2.5

10 game winning streaks?

The analogy I like is that TrueSkill2 is like a microwave. I don’t understand how it heats up my food so fast. It just does. So why would I go back to heating up my shawarma in the oven.

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I imagine 50% of threads like this are started by people who have literally just come off a match that made them cry. It’s embarrassing.

Maybe I’m a sadist, but these takedowns are the main reason I come on here.

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Statistics from halotracker.
Opponent players: 1 player (kd 1.11. Platinum 1, 22 kills, 14 deaths),
player 2 (kd 0.92. Diamond2, 16 kills, 16 deaths) player 3 (kd 0.85. platinum 5, 11 kills, 7 deaths),
player 4 (recent player no stats, 1 kill, 9 deaths).
My team: Me (kd 1.07, Gold 4, 12 kills, 12 deaths),
player 2 (kd 1.19, gold 6, 16 kills, 13 deaths),
player 3 (kd 1.02, gold 1, 13 kills, 10 deaths),
player 4 (private profile, 4 kills, 9 deaths)
Here’s the deal: 2 platinum, 1 diamond and a new player against 3 gold and a new player.
Who will win?
Here you probably need to connect a supercomputer.
Don’t figure it out yourself.
And then of course a fair selection of players at 100%?
Does the system run like clockwork?
Is everything fair?

This will always be a problem as long as people rely on an AI Matchmaker to pick their teammates for them. Why I generally recommend people make friends with people they play well with and pick your teammates for yourself. It’s waaaaay more reliable.

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As we’ve discussed - this isn’t enough information.

What were the average MMR’s of the two teams?

On paper, which is the best the MM system can do, was it a fair match going in?

The unranked players could have been anything. The Golds on your team could easily have had MMR’s well into the Platinum range.

Were their any weightings for squads?

Again. Depends on the average MMRs of the teams.

The important thing is the system will have calculated who it thinks should win and will reward and penalise the players appropriately.

And even if it’s a great match on paper there are always going to be those players that gel as a team and those that don’t.

Not every match can, or has to be, 50:50. And to be honest, I’m often surprised it works as well as it does.

And besides, for all I know this was a objective game and your team won!

No, just a little effort and understanding.

But you should.

The alternative is to complain about it.

No system does.

And even after all that it could just have been a badly matched game.

Maybe these were the only players available at the time the match had to go to air. And it couldn’t mix the players better because 3 or 4 of them were running as a squad.

And maybe, despite it’s projection, your team just whiffed it on the day.

It tries to be.

But even when it can’t, you are still protected. Because if you were expected to lose then your own MMR isn’t going to take a huge hit.

What’s not fair is picking an outlier result from your game history and using to try and “prove” the system is failed.

What about your W/L of 70%? Have you looked at your whole game history to see how the system is working overall?

You have to accept a small % of games aren’t going to work out.

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“Preferences and Intended Behavior…”

They’re talking about weapon balance man. If there’s a field for “matchmaking” use that instead.

my team lost

judging by kd, these are very weak players - this is obvious

That was sarcasm. Because it is so obvious that 2 platinum and a diamond will defeat 3 gold. no need to go to a fortune teller or connect a supercomputer.

I would argue that both the Supercomputer and the Fortune Teller would both like to know the rank of the mystery player on both teams before making the call.

As well as the MMR’s of the player’s involved. CSR can be a bit misleading, especially early in the season.

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It’s useless to talk to you. You’re just trying your best to justify the matchmaking system like you’re being paid for it. You don’t seem to be a fan of halo infinite, you’re a fan of 343 and trueskill2. Curve selection system. I’m not going to give you the data of other players to prove something. 11 losses in a row is bad, 11 wins in a row too. Playing with a very strong opponent or a very weak one is bad. It is bad when the system does not give a chance, but it does not give it. She knows in advance which team will win. I wouldn’t be surprised if the win % is higher for those who bought a battle pass or some kind of cosmetics. And such a player has a more stable game (in terms of choosing a server, for example). I have no proof, but if someone finds it, I won’t be surprised. No wonder so many players leave this game. Look at the steam data. These are also numbers and they say something. There are a lot of statements about the selection of players on the forum, and these people are also wrong? They are right! The player doesn’t like losing all the time, doesn’t like having high-performing players on the opposing team, doesn’t like sitting and sweating over every match with no chance of winning. Therefore, people go out before the end of the match. Nobody wants to keep losing. Give 100% and still lose. I won’t reply to your messages anymore - there’s no point in talking to a 343 fan. Go to their office and hug everyone there.

I would like to think I’m a pretty conversational guy.

Justify is not quite the right word.

More defending it from being unfairly maligned?

Huge fan of Infinite. Supporter of 343. Big, big fan of TS2.

You say that like it’s a bad thing?

No? But you are very happy to put up one carefully selected game to prove the system is broken.

And I’m the one useless to argue with?

I agree. But you haven’t given me an example of that happening.

You need to know what the average MMR was of both teams. We can’t tell that from the example you gave. And that’s all the system can do - match on MMR’s. How the players gel into a functional team is pretty much in the lap of the Gods.

And I’m not saying the occasional bad match up doesn’t happen. Time pressures on the MM service etc.

She knows which team will probably win. Maths with curves. And the result can be used to work out how much rank everyone needs to change.

Woah, we’ve really derailed now. When did we descend into flat earth territory?

Besides. If that was true I’d be Onyx. :smiley:

Desync, lack of content, extended seasons, no forge, no co-op, rebellion against FTP, the store, no XP progression.

All would be much bigger factors.

In most cases yes. Or at least a little misguided. :wink:

Pretty much everyone I’ve had similar discussions with has had a W/L of 50% plus. Except for Kris - but that’s a pretty unique (and fascinating) situation. The problem is that, for some reason they expect the game somehow owes them more?

As for the high ranked opponent - that’s mostly friends playing as squads. I’m all for that being taken out of the game. But whenever you push for that you get a flood of responses that they have the right to play with their friends! You just can’t please everyone.

Sweating over every match with no chance of winning? Again, come back if and when your W/L falls below 45%.

Sorry about that. I apologise if I’ve offended you in anyway. I know I can be a bit flippant in my responses sometimes (mostly that’s just my tendency to be sarcastic and/or cynical). But overall I enjoy the discourse. And not every discussion has to end with someone changing their mind.

Good luck with you Halo future. I hope you find the 90%+ win rate you are looking for (yes, that’s me being sarcastic again).

The guys in the office say hello.

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@Darwi I thought you made many salient and well articulated points in response nor did it seem you were trying to defend anything.
I hope to have many a worthwhile eiscussion in the future.
Some people on the foeums think its only a good conversation if they male the other party mirror how they feel in the end and it can detracht from some great discourse.
Have a spendid day!

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LOL, i just got the same canned message when voicing my concerns to 343 about uneven ranked matchmaking. i had team of low plats on my team while we faced up against an Onyx and Diamond 3. this was the response i received -

"Hello ssj2trunks,

Issues like these are unintended by the developers and can be fixed by repairing the game’s programming.

Typically, balance issues are a matter of preference or misinterpretations of the intended behavior.

Thank you,
The Superintendent"

i could not believe what i read! i just had to google it because it sounded so canned and templated. low and behold, found this exact messaging here lol.

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Yes, friend. Everything is just like that. And everyone convinces you that the matchmaking system works fine, but the problem is with you. Such position and at this forum. Look at the posts above. You will be told a lot and used various methods to either confuse you or make you look like an idiot. Classic types of manipulation. And you show! And you give me the data! And you didn’t tell me all the data! And I looked at your statistics here! And this is up to you! It’s like you came to test drive a car, and it has a steering wheel on the ceiling. You’re like: guys - this is not the best solution. This does not work. And they answer you in response: do you see the steering wheel spinning? they can turn the wheels, everything works! you are just an idiot! And they also answer in support and here on the forum. I’m tired of explaining: the player needs the end result. There is an expression: If you think that something seems to you, then it does not seem, but it is so. I sit and see and feel that the balance of the players is wrong - no matter what you tell me. I play, I actually face it. Why make an idiot out of me? And in fact, a lot of people complain about the balance.