The Precursor Enemy Theorists

First off, I think the Precursors will come into play, but not in this trilogy. Frank O Connor has stated he hopes to continue the universe for at least 20 more years. (Not saying they wont be in this trilogy, just stating they are planning to drag it out)

I know a lot of people are split with the enemy theory. I have posted my reasoning for some Forerunner faction becoming an antagonist, but I want to hear some theories about how the Precursors will become enemies and why.

All I ever see and hear is that the books hint that the Precursors created the Flood, and plan on testing humanity. Aside from the fact that the Flood outbreak from Inst. 4 was put under control by humans and Covenant, why do the Precursors feel the need to kill us? They wanted us to be the true inheritors of the Mantle because the Forerunner failed, hence the Precursor-Forerunner war. So they planned on testing how we handle the Flood in the future, which could show up in this trilogy. But if we defeat the Flood, why would the Precursors kill us then, if we showed we were worthy of the Mantle?

If they just want to test us by sending rogue races, which is a theory I have seen, then are they truly the enemy? Or just testing us and then when we succeed say “Oh they got this.”

> First off, I think the Precursors will come into play, but not in this trilogy. Frank O Connor has stated he hopes to continue the universe for at least 20 more years. (Not saying they wont be in this trilogy, just stating they are planning to drag it out)

Halo lasting another 20 years is a nice little thought, but doesn’t seem to realistic to me. Either way, whose to say that after this new trilogy, they can’t fill that void with other spin-off games? Lots of material WAY before the start of even Halo 4. The Precursors could be the antagonists who have new creations act as their proxies as they plan behind the scene. In fact, once the Precursors role is established, a Forerunner game can easily be put in to further flesh out the Precursors and the Flood.

> I know a lot of people are split with the enemy theory. <mark>I have posted my reasoning for some Forerunner faction becoming an antagonist</mark>, but I want to hear some theories about how the Precursors will become enemies and why.

No Forerunner faction would have any good reason to be evil, none.

> All I ever see and hear is that the books hint that the Precursors created the Flood, and plan on testing humanity. Aside from the fact that the Flood outbreak from Inst. 4 was put under control by humans and Covenant, why do the Precursors feel the need to kill us?

Because those outbreaks are pretty damn paltry compared to previous waves that ancient man and the Forerunners dealt with. The first wave was merely to save us from the Forerunners wrath and the next one removed the Forerunners from play. We are still due for a galactic wide outbreak. It’s really not to “kill us”, but to see if we can be protectors of the galaxy. Plenty of races failed way beforehand.

> They wanted us to be the true inheritors of the Mantle because the Forerunner failed, hence the Precursor-Forerunner war. So they planned on testing how we handle the Flood in the future, which could show up in this trilogy. But if we defeat the Flood, why would the Precursors kill us then, if we showed we were worthy of the Mantle?

Consider the way the ancient humans had to fight the Flood, pretty much sacrificing 2/3 of their entire population. Who told them that? The Timeless One, a Precursors turned Gravemind. Well, that might be debatable, but he is clearly working for the Precursors.

Fact is, the Precursors threatened us, the Forerunners have not. Unless of course you consider leaving them their technology to use as threatening.

[deleted]

> The precursors will come into play in the next game as will the flood.

What is stopping them from coming into play in Halo 4? Nothing.

If 343 tried to stretch the “main” storyline out for 6 more games I’d be a bit dissapointed.

If halo 4 5 and 6 more less ended the main story, with however many other offshoot games inbetween, I think that’d be great. I mean, there’s a whole 27 year war which has almost NOTHING about it game wise, amongst other things.

I don’t really see what else Chief could be doing in this trilogy if Precursors don’t show up. As of now, the Forerunners don’t make too much sense as an enemy. There’s still the final Forerunner novel, too, but that won’t come out until after Halo 4.

Along with the other reasons stated here and presumed in general about the Precursors’ reasons for fighting Humanity, it’s also quite possible that the Precursors don’t think that Humanity is worthy of the Mantle anymore.

Hey maybe you guys can enlighten me.

I’ve read almost everything there is to read about Halo (all tho some of it was a few years ago now) the only book’s i haven’t read are “Grasslands” the two new forerunner novels (I have the first one, just haven’t read it yet, I’ve been re-reading all the other novels and just haven’t gotten there yet) and “Evolution’s”

my question is, i could have sworn i remember reading this somewhere they mentioned the Pre-curers, didn’t they mention that Humanity created the flood to fight the Forerunner in their war that ended with Forerunner bombing humanity back into the stone age over 100,000 thousand years ago? but humanity having the last laugh leaving the Forerunner to fight the flood?

again, i could be completely wrong. just asking.

DecepticonCobra;880857
[/quote]
No Forerunner faction would have any good reason to be evil, none.
[/quote]
Didn’t Humanity and Forerunner already have a war once before? so how could you say there’s no good reason?

> > First off, I think the Precursors will come into play, but not in this trilogy. Frank O Connor has stated he hopes to continue the universe for at least 20 more years. (Not saying they wont be in this trilogy, just stating they are planning to drag it out)
>
> Halo lasting another 20 years is a nice little thought, but doesn’t seem to realistic to me. Either way, whose to say that after this new trilogy, they can’t fill that void with other spin-off games? Lots of material WAY before the start of even Halo 4. The Precursors could be the antagonists who have new creations act as their proxies as they plan behind the scene. In fact, once the Precursors role is established, a Forerunner game can easily be put in to further flesh out the Precursors and the Flood.
>
>
>
> > I know a lot of people are split with the enemy theory. <mark>I have posted my reasoning for some Forerunner faction becoming an antagonist</mark>, but I want to hear some theories about how the Precursors will become enemies and why.
>
> No Forerunner faction would have any good reason to be evil, none.
>
>
>
> > All I ever see and hear is that the books hint that the Precursors created the Flood, and plan on testing humanity. Aside from the fact that the Flood outbreak from Inst. 4 was put under control by humans and Covenant, why do the Precursors feel the need to kill us?
>
> Because those outbreaks are pretty damn paltry compared to previous waves that ancient man and the Forerunners dealt with. The first wave was merely to save us from the Forerunners wrath and the next one removed the Forerunners from play. We are still due for a galactic wide outbreak. It’s really not to “kill us”, but to see if we can be protectors of the galaxy. Plenty of races failed way beforehand.
>
>
>
> > They wanted us to be the true inheritors of the Mantle because the Forerunner failed, hence the Precursor-Forerunner war. So they planned on testing how we handle the Flood in the future, which could show up in this trilogy. But if we defeat the Flood, why would the Precursors kill us then, if we showed we were worthy of the Mantle?
>
> Consider the way the ancient humans had to fight the Flood, pretty much sacrificing 2/3 of their entire population. Who told them that? The Timeless One, a Precursors turned Gravemind. Well, that might be debatable, but he is clearly working for the Precursors.
>
> Fact is, the Precursors threatened us, the Forerunners have not. Unless of course you consider leaving them their technology to use as threatening.

Halo lasting 20 years does not have to seem realistic to you, it is what 343’s goal is.

So because we are due for a FLOOD invasion, that automatically means the Precursors are the antagonist? Even though they MAY be creating the Flood behind the scenes…I just don’t understand how this means Precursors are the main enemy. If we fail, then yes, they possibly come wipe us out…although if we fail doesn’t that mean we would be gone due to the Flood? Especially since humanity is so thin already.

“The Precursors could be the antagonists who have new creations act as their proxies as they plan behind the scene.”…What may I ask, what are they planning for? If they are really strong why wouldn’t they just come wipe us out themselves? If it is because they do not want to kill us themselves, by sending a Proxy Race, why are they so set on killing us? You say that were going to be tested by the Flood, but in order to uphold something the Precursors believe in. Why would they send Proxy Races just to mess with us?

You would think that if the Precursors were a very evil species they would have stopped us from advancing to a point where we could possibly kill their horrible evil species. But they are not, they apparently just want to find the best species to watch over that galaxy while they are away. And what incentive do they have if we do uphold the Mantle? They seem fine for the last million years or so in a different galaxy.

Fact is, you are wrong. The Precursors have not threatened us. The Timeless One did, something that we do not know EXACTLY what it is, or how it is related to them. However, I do believe we have fought the Forerunner before, but not the Precursors. So as of right this second, the only species out of the two we have had beef with in history is the Forerunners.

You still have not proposed a theory, a well thought out theory that describes why they are doing this other than you think they are going to send the Flood our way. Give me a real theory with factual points and reasons. Regardless if you think my theory lacks reasoning, you have not shown me yours.

> DecepticonCobra;880857

No Forerunner faction would have any good reason to be evil, none.
[/quote]
Didn’t Humanity and Forerunner already have a war once before? so how could you say there’s no good reason?

[/quote]
Times have changed considerably. The war back then was “accidental”, and a war now would go completely against everything the forerunner have been built up to be since.

> Hey maybe you guys can enlighten me.
>
> I’ve read almost everything there is to read about Halo (all tho some of it was a few years ago now) the only book’s i haven’t read are “Grasslands” the two new forerunner novels (I have the first one, just haven’t read it yet, I’ve been re-reading all the other novels and just haven’t gotten there yet) and “Evolution’s”
>
> my question is, i could have sworn i remember reading this somewhere they mentioned the Pre-curers, didn’t they mention that Humanity created the flood to fight the Forerunner in their war that ended with Forerunner bombing humanity back into the stone age over 100,000 thousand years ago? but humanity having the last laugh leaving the Forerunner to fight the flood?
>
> again, i could be completely wrong. just asking.

The two new forerunner novels contain 99% of the info we speculate on concerning the plot of Halo 4 and beyond. I’d suggest reading them. While the obviously tell the tale of what happened 100,000 years ago, it all has implication as to what will happen next.

“100,000 years from now, humanity will be tested”

like that…

I do believe the Precursors are the true enemy but I don’t think we’ll be facing them directly. The Primordial confirmed the Precursors survived and continued to “Create” which I assume means they continue to develop new species. This could mean that the enemy we will be fighting in the Reclaimer trilogy will be this new species which they created to replace us, just as we were created to replace the Forerunner.

However things are currently out of whack because the Forerunner are still alive and Humans are now growing back up and always eager to fight. We also have the Sangheili and other Covenant races which could possibly be recruited to help fight and what not. All these things will happen over the course of the trilogy of course. I’m not saying Galaxy wide unity would happen in a single game.

One vibe I got from Primordium was that the Primordial was trying to convince the Humans to rise up and continue the fight against the Forerunner. In the scene where Forthencho was being projected by the Monitor and he was talking about past Human glory and rebuilding it. At first it seemed maybe it was him but I have a feeling it was just an attempt by the Primordial to confuse the Humans and get them to fight the Forerunner. Kind of like how ONI wants the Elites to take each other out so they will be in a weaken state, it’s possible the Precursors want the Humans and Forerunner to destroy or wound each other so that they may be weak prey for this new species.

The Primordial said that he was the last of his kind which I believe means the Flood. He said they would return and this could mean the Flood attack in the Halo Trilogy but I personally don’t believe this. The Flood outbreak in the last trilogy was just that: an Outbreak. They never actually returned or invaded it was just an outbreak of Flood left over from the last great war. They were defeated and put back under control and the Primordial’s statement they they will return is actually him saying the Precursors will have a new test for them.

So I do think the Forerunner will be our enemy at first in Halo 4 because we are both being played by the Precursors. Then this actual new enemy will attack and we will be forced to unite to stop it. The broken Covenant is a wild card as they could go either way. It will be up to the Chief and the Arbiter to unite everyone against a much more deadly threat.

That’s my theory.

> I do believe the Precursors are the true enemy but I don’t think we’ll be facing them directly. The Primordial confirmed the Precursors survived and continued to “Create” which I assume means they continue to develop new species. This could mean that the enemy we will be fighting in the Reclaimer trilogy will be this new species which they created to replace us, just as we were created to replace the Forerunner.
>
> However things are currently out of whack because the Forerunner are still alive and Humans are now growing back up and always eager to fight. We also have the Sangheili and other Covenant races which could possibly be recruited to help fight and what not. All these things will happen over the course of the trilogy of course. I’m not saying Galaxy wide unity would happen in a single game.
>
> One vibe I got from Primordium was that the Primordial was trying to convince the Humans to rise up and continue the fight against the Forerunner. In the scene where Forthencho was being projected by the Monitor and he was talking about past Human glory and rebuilding it. At first it seemed maybe it was him but I have a feeling it was just an attempt by the Primordial to confuse the Humans and get them to fight the Forerunner. Kind of like how ONI wants the Elites to take each other out so they will be in a weaken state, it’s possible the Precursors want the Humans and Forerunner to destroy or wound each other so that they may be weak prey for this new species.
>
> The Primordial said that he was the last of his kind which I believe means the Flood. He said they would return and this could mean the Flood attack in the Halo Trilogy but I personally don’t believe this. The Flood outbreak in the last trilogy was just that: an Outbreak. They never actually returned or invaded it was just an outbreak of Flood left over from the last great war. They were defeated and put back under control and the Primordial’s statement they they will return is actually him saying the Precursors will have a new test for them.
>
> So I do think the Forerunner will be our enemy at first in Halo 4 because we are both being played by the Precursors. Then this actual new enemy will attack and we will be forced to unite to stop it. The broken Covenant is a wild card as they could go either way. It will be up to the Chief and the Arbiter to unite everyone against a much more deadly threat.
>
> That’s my theory.

Thank you for the first actual theory. I think its a great one. Ive also believed at first the Forerunner will be our enemy, but the only difference is I think that Faber is alive and will stay an antagonist. But yea thats a really good point about him trying to confuse everyone in order for them to come out on top. That makes WAYYY more sense than just sending Flood at random species.

> Fact is, you are wrong. The Precursors have not threatened us. The Timeless One did, something that we do not know EXACTLY what it is, or how it is related to them. However, I do believe we have fought the Forerunner before, but not the Precursors. So as of right this second, the only species out of the two we have had beef with in history is the Forerunners.
>
> You still have not proposed a theory, a well thought out theory that describes why they are doing this other than you think they are going to send the Flood our way. Give me a real theory with factual points and reasons. Regardless if you think my theory lacks reasoning, you have not shown me yours.

I’m sorry, how is it a fact exactly that he is wrong? You just don’t think he is right. That doesn’t make it a fact.

And if we are going by what the books have told us thus far, then the Timeless One is a Precursor, the last of “this” kind. So by the TO being the last Precursor, and threatening us, then yes, the Precursors did in fact threaten us. And if, as it is believed, the Precursor did in fact create the Flood, then they first threatened everything in the Galaxy by releasing the Flood spores initially.

The last Precursor himself, before being killed, says Humanity will be tested next, in 100,000 years. He also told the Didact that it is his duty to kill this one so that another may be released. Seems kind of like the Precursors have the plan set in motion already.

> > Fact is, you are wrong. The Precursors have not threatened us. The Timeless One did, something that we do not know EXACTLY what it is, or how it is related to them. However, I do believe we have fought the Forerunner before, but not the Precursors. So as of right this second, the only species out of the two we have had beef with in history is the Forerunners.
> >
> > You still have not proposed a theory, a well thought out theory that describes why they are doing this other than you think they are going to send the Flood our way. Give me a real theory with factual points and reasons. Regardless if you think my theory lacks reasoning, you have not shown me yours.
>
> I’m sorry, how is it a fact exactly that he is wrong? You just don’t think he is right. That doesn’t make it a fact.
>
> And if we are going by what the books have told us thus far, then the Timeless One is a Precursor, the last of “this” kind. So by the TO being the last Precursor, and threatening us, then yes, the Precursors did in fact threaten us. And if, as it is believed, the Precursor did in fact create the Flood, then they first threatened everything in the Galaxy by releasing the Flood spores initially.
>
> The last Precursor himself, before being killed, says Humanity will be tested next, in 100,000 years. He also told the Didact that it is his duty to kill this one so that another may be released. Seems kind of like the Precursors have the plan set in motion already.

He was stating that quote as a fact, which is not yet. Like I said before, no one KNOWS exactly what he is or how he is related. IF IT IS A PRECURSOR, than yes, they (Precursors) threatened us.

Sigh…before I start, earlier in my post I raise questions that you nor him have answered as to why the Precursors want to continue to harm us and kill us, besides just testing to see if were worthy to protect a galaxy. If that is all your theories are, then that’s fine. Not to mention neither of you have given a general theory. But that does not make them very bad per-say, instead they just want a good race to take control. So like I said earlier in the post, it ultimately means the Flood would be the in game antagonist, rather than the Precursors that sit back watching.

So, I will ask you this. Since we know that MC wont be fighting the Flood in Halo 4, that leaves us two games to fight the Flood invasion and succeed. Or fight them and fail, which then means the Precursors come to completely wipe us out, also implying that even though we failed the test, the Flood haven’t killed us yet…Seems to be a lot of ground to cover in that theory for the last 2 games.

So are Precursors going to be the enemy in Halo 4? Which in that case kind of kills the whole we are going to have the Flood invade you to test you, which is what the Timeless One said. Im just asking because only Shadow has given a good theory about how he thinks this happens. I want to hear yours if you are going to come in write. And sorry if my tone on here sounds bad, I honestly just am curious to other people’s theories.

Look at the Precursors with everything we know. A vast majority of them were wiped out by the Forerunners aeons ago. The survivors fled beyond their reach, probably going outside of the galaxy and hiding out, yet still creating. The Flood is the first thing they made in exile. The Mantle is there concept and ideology and they still fully intend to test humanity. Look at the piss poor job the Forerunners did when they gave themselves the Mantle, galactic stagnation for nearly every single race sans the San 'Shyuum and humans. Sending in the Flood allowed the Precursors too both preserve humanity from the Forerunners and remove the Forerunners from the big picture. With all that in mind, the Precursors still fully intend to test us to see if we can uphold the Mantle. If not, we shall come and ago like every race that had failed the test.

Now here is some speculation as to WHY they continue this test. Look at the results of the two races who claimed to uphold the Mantle, the Forerunners and Prophets. Under their rule those who they ruled over fell to stagnation. As we saw in Halo: Legends, every race was prehistoric. under the Forerunners, not one group appeared to be spacefaring. Under the Prophets, they did bring technological progress to some cultures, yet once the Covenant fell apart no group had any clue on how to work, fix or make their own ships and such anymore, they grew too dependent on the Covenant.

It would appear the Mantle is not meant to be held by a single group, it leads to abuse and decay for anyone under said groups rule. Perhaps the goal of the Precursors is to unite every race in a common effort of survival, meaning the Mantle is to be shared. The humans can be the lead group at first, but it would not be a lasting position, merely a launching ground for unity.

That is what I believe their goal to be, to unify every race and to see if they can put aside all of their differences and cooperate for the good of the galaxy. That is the end of my speculation on THAT matter.

> > > Fact is, you are wrong. The Precursors have not threatened us. The Timeless One did, something that we do not know EXACTLY what it is, or how it is related to them. However, I do believe we have fought the Forerunner before, but not the Precursors. So as of right this second, the only species out of the two we have had beef with in history is the Forerunners.
> > >
> > > You still have not proposed a theory, a well thought out theory that describes why they are doing this other than you think they are going to send the Flood our way. Give me a real theory with factual points and reasons. Regardless if you think my theory lacks reasoning, you have not shown me yours.
> >
> > I’m sorry, how is it a fact exactly that he is wrong? You just don’t think he is right. That doesn’t make it a fact.
> >
> > And if we are going by what the books have told us thus far, then the Timeless One is a Precursor, the last of “this” kind. So by the TO being the last Precursor, and threatening us, then yes, the Precursors did in fact threaten us. And if, as it is believed, the Precursor did in fact create the Flood, then they first threatened everything in the Galaxy by releasing the Flood spores initially.
> >
> > The last Precursor himself, before being killed, says Humanity will be tested next, in 100,000 years. He also told the Didact that it is his duty to kill this one so that another may be released. Seems kind of like the Precursors have the plan set in motion already.
>
> He was stating that quote as a fact, which is not yet. Like I said before, no one KNOWS exactly what he is or how he is related. IF IT IS A PRECURSOR, than yes, they (Precursors) threatened us.
>
> Sigh…before I start, earlier in my post I raise questions that you nor him have answered as to why the Precursors want to continue to harm us and kill us, besides just testing to see if were worthy to protect a galaxy. If that is all your theories are, then that’s fine. Not to mention neither of you have given a general theory. But that does not make them very bad per-say, instead they just want a good race to take control. So like I said earlier in the post, it ultimately means the Flood would be the in game antagonist, rather than the Precursors that sit back watching.
>
> So, I will ask you this. Since we know that MC wont be fighting the Flood in Halo 4, that leaves us two games to fight the Flood invasion and succeed. Or fight them and fail, which then means the Precursors come to completely wipe us out, also implying that even though we failed the test, the Flood haven’t killed us yet…Seems to be a lot of ground to cover in that theory for the last 2 games.
>
> So are Precursors going to be the enemy in Halo 4? Which in that case kind of kills the whole we are going to have the Flood invade you to test you, which is what the Timeless One said. Im just asking because only Shadow has given a good theory about how he thinks this happens. I want to hear yours if you are going to come in write. And sorry if my tone on here sounds bad, I honestly just am curious to other people’s theories.

Well it’s assumed the Flood is the test. However it is never blatantly said. Like when the Primordial tells the Didact humanity will be tested next. He never flat out says the Flood will be the test. And he said Forerunners failed long ago. In that time we know that the Forerunners chased off and destroyed most Precursors in this galaxy. The test could actually be the Precursors, and the Flood being sent in could kind of be like a pre-test, to see if a race is worthy of the actual test. I mean honestly fighting the flood becomes pretty simple tactically speaking. They adopt tech from species they take over. They can’t make their own ships (as far as we know) lay waste to the planets they are on, and don’t go to the ground and you pretty much have it handled. Now fighting an advanced race from the start seems a little harder. A species capable of building their own ships, and weapons.

There is a lot of talk of the Forerunners being the enemy, but I think personally a better idea would be to have a technologically superior Precursor come in and humans and Forerunners are forced to work together to fight a common enemy.

> Look at the Precursors with everything we know. A vast majority of them were wiped out by the Forerunners aeons ago. The survivors fled beyond their reach, probably going outside of the galaxy and hiding out, yet still creating. The Flood is the first thing they made in exile. The Mantle is there concept and ideology and they still fully intend to test humanity. Look at the piss poor job the Forerunners did when they gave themselves the Mantle, galactic stagnation for nearly every single race sans the San 'Shyuum and humans. Sending in the Flood allowed the Precursors too both preserve humanity from the Forerunners and remove the Forerunners from the big picture. With all that in mind, the Precursors still fully intend to test us to see if we can uphold the Mantle. If not, we shall come and ago like every race that had failed the test.
>
> Now here is some speculation as to WHY they continue this test. Look at the results of the two races who claimed to uphold the Mantle, the Forerunners and Prophets. Under their rule those who they ruled over fell to stagnation. As we saw in Halo: Legends, every race was prehistoric. under the Forerunners, not one group appeared to be spacefaring. Under the Prophets, they did bring technological progress to some cultures, yet once the Covenant fell apart no group had any clue on how to work, fix or make their own ships and such anymore, they grew too dependent on the Covenant.
>
> It would appear the Mantle is not meant to be held by a single group, it leads to abuse and decay for anyone under said groups rule. Perhaps the goal of the Precursors is to unite every race in a common effort of survival, meaning the Mantle is to be shared. The humans can be the lead group at first, but it would not be a lasting position, merely a launching ground for unity.
>
> That is what I believe their goal to be, to unify every race and to see if they can put aside all of their differences and cooperate for the good of the galaxy. That is the end of my speculation on THAT matter.

The San 'Shyuum (Prophets) never held the title of the Mantle, as the concept didn’t exist at their time? Where did you think that the Prophets held the Mantle? Seriously.

The Precursors have the ability to unite all the galactic races into unity, without strife, or conflict, or class, or anything. It is called the Flood. This is stated in Primordium (I believe). We don’t know anything about who the Precursors (or the Timeless One) really were, or if they are still out there, or anything actually involving them. We can only sit and wait.

> One vibe I got from Primordium was that the Primordial was trying to convince the Humans to rise up and continue the fight against the Forerunner. In the scene where Forthencho was being projected by the Monitor and he was talking about past Human glory and rebuilding it. At first it seemed maybe it was him but I have a feeling it was just an attempt by the Primordial to confuse the Humans and get them to fight the Forerunner. Kind of like how ONI wants the Elites to take each other out so they will be in a weaken state, it’s possible the Precursors want the Humans and Forerunner to destroy or wound each other so that they may be weak prey for this new species.
>
> The Primordial said that he was the last of his kind which I believe means the Flood. He said they would return and this could mean the Flood attack in the Halo Trilogy but I personally don’t believe this.

The humans wanting revenge on the forerunners was just that, the humans. Medicant bias new they would work with him so he also offered a chance for revenge, the primordial wasn’t involved with that. It was stated in the book that the human-forerunner war devastated the primordials plans so i doubt he would try having the humans lose again.

He said “Last of this kind” and also says “Precursors-flood, there is no difference” That makes it more like a race that gave itself to the flood them him actually being “the flood”. Not to mention after the conversation is over Forthencho says “We have met our creators” right after we are told the precursors created both races.

> The humans wanting revenge on the forerunners was just that, the humans. Medicant bias new they would work with him so he also offered a chance for revenge, <mark>the primordial wasn’t involved with that.</mark> It was stated in the book that the human-forerunner war devastated the primordials plans so i doubt he would try having the humans lose again.

Of course he was, Mendicant Bias had been working for the Primordial this whole time. Forthencho didn’t go to them and say he wished to continue the fight. Mendicant Bias went to him and told him he could give them power only if they joined him.

Primodrium Page 303

“And now we are brought here, for this moment, by a machine that has long since turned against Forerunner. It wishes us to defeat them - to cause them misery and dismay. And so we shall!”

It was Mendicant Bias who went to Forthencho and told him what he wanted from him and Mendicant Bias is working directly with the Primordial Gravemind.

Page 303 Continued…

“There is little time and so extreme measures have been authorized.”

They’re reaching out in desperation. Chakas then mentions in his thoughts that Mendicant Bias is indeed not in charge of any of this.

Primordium Page 306/7

“My first question was, why? What value, these old ghosts, to Forerunner machines? What value could I have? Worse, I knew that the green-eyed master of the wheel was not actually in command - had not been in charge of the wheel for many decades. I knew, but could not act on my knowledge.”

Mendicant Bias is doing this under the orders of the Primordial Gravemind.

Primordium Page 308/9

“Humans? The last dregs of us that remain after so many Forerunner victories? We became animals. We were devolved - and only the Librarian thought enough of us to raise us back up again!”
“It doesn’t care!” the Lord of Admirals said. “The machine will do everything it can to destroy Forerunners. It knows that I have fought Forerunner before.”
“And lost.”
“But also learned! I have spent my time within you going over and over old battles, studying all our past failures and now, I have full access to their new strategies! This wheel is but one of the weapons at our disposal - if we join.”

If we join.

Page 309 Continued…

“Out there, awaiting our commands, in many orbits around thousands of other worlds, in other star systems, are reserves of tens of thousands of ships of war - and more Halos. We will be irresistible!”

He lies. They have no control over the other Halos and the majority of those fleets of ships are Flood infested.

Primordium Page 309/10

“I seemed to see through this sham to the Captive, the Primordial itself… I was fading. illusion passed into illusion - and I preferred my own. Mongoose, the trickster, I remembered, had been responsible for creating humanity. It was Mongoose who had convinced Mud to mate with Sun and breed worms, and then teased and angered the worms until they grew legs to chase him over the grasslands. Worms became men. The wheel’s green-eyed master was a bit of a trickster, like Mongoose, playing jokes upon the humorless gods known as Tree and River, rock and Cloud.”

Chakas wasn’t a fool. He knew it was all a trick and I have to believe him. It was just their attempt at saving themselves.

> He said “Last of this kind” and also says “Precursors-flood, there is no difference” That makes it more like a race that gave itself to the flood them him actually being “the flood”. Not to mention after the conversation is over Forthencho says “We have met our creators” right after we are told the precursors created both races.

But it said that he had been the last of that particular kind which would seem to imply another kind exists. He even says that once he is dead another shall take his place. It can’t be another like him because he is the last so he had to have been referring to something new, something not yet encountered.