The paid gambling elements of this game should be removed

A paid slot machine with extra steps
Simply put, this game includes a paid gambling mechanic. Ironically you can’t win money, but you definitely are encouraged to spend it. And you do win things that are indirectly given monetary value. Obviously how a gambling system applies here is less obvious than say, loot boxes in other games. But the principles are still there:

Step 1: a player is given a random set of challenges; some are obscenely difficult. This is the only means of progressing or unlocking certain marketed/incentivizing features.

Step 2: A player may pay to have a challenge randomly swapped out. You pay for the chance of something easier; more attainable. Some challenges can be completed in a single match.

That’s it- it’s already gambling. But THEN

**Step 3: ** Introduce limited events, where players can acquire items of manufactured scarcity IF they complete challenges within a week-long time window, meaning for some players the only practical way to get this is to pay for the random chance of having more attainable challenges.

I’m not sure how it got to this point, but it definitely feels like whomever designed the current progression system- at best- didn’t do their homework on what constitutes as “predatory” and harmful micro transactions in gaming. Obviously this isn’t dangerous for everyone, but it’s definitely dangerous for some folks with certain addictive or otherwise compulsive personalities.

In-game, this hurts matchmaking a lot because many teammates are trying to do challenges instead of doing teamwork to win the game.

In the meta, this is concerning for a healthy player base, and could spell legal trouble for 343, as certain national governments (like Aus and Britain) are known to clamp down on this sort of thing when they get a whiff of it.

4 Likes

Nothing about this system is remotely discernable as Gambling. The system is bad, but is not gambling. What an overreach if I’ve ever seen one.

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I agree that the system in place is very predatory and very much encourages you to open your wallet but I definitely wouldn’t go as far as saying that it’s gambling. This whole thing could honestly be fixed if the progression was based on your performance and the challenges just gave you extra.

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The only part of the game that could be considered gambling, would be paying for a challenge swap, and not knowing what challenge you are going to get.

But even that’s a stretch, because you’re just paying for a lucky dip.

Gambling would be paying for a challenge swap, with the chance of receiving multiple challenges, or no challenge at all.

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Welcome to a challenge system. It’s not gambling, it’s just annoying.

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I hate the agressive monetization and horrid progression/challenge system as much as the next… but it aint gambling

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you keep using that word…Gambling…I don’t think it means…what you think it means.

That said the current system is annoying and predatory, its just definitely not gambling

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Halo 5’s packs were closer to gambling than anything in Infinite is, and those weren’t even classified as close since you were guaranteed a reward in a knockout system that would eventually give you every item.

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Exactly. It was only your personal preference that made it anything close to resembling gambling.

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I’m curious how yall would define gambling.

Paying for the random chance of a reward is gambling by most definitions, and even more this is the kind of game design which is dangerous to people with gambling addictions and other compulsive behaviors.

If y’all are gonna say “it’s not gambling”, can you actually define gambling in a way to where this doesn’t apply?

Gambling is placing something at stake, usually money, with the payout being a negative return, and equal payout, or a net gain.

By this definition, challenge swapping isn’t gambling, because you can’t outright loose ‘a challenge’ or gain more than one challenge when you swap.

Challenge swapping may be a scummy way of praying on the weak, but it’s simply a payment to change your task. The xp payout for said task doesn’t change.

Just because you don’t like the new challenge you are given, doesn’t mean that it’s gambling.

And if anyone needs to challenge swap to the point of being considered an addiction, they’ve got more issues going on upstairs than gambling…

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I agree that the FOMO with the weekly limited time reward does not pair well with the challenge swaps that need to be bought in the shop if you’ve used your free ones from the battle pass and still got tough challenges.

So this is an issue outside of gaming in general, but there really needs to be a word for practices which involve paying money for an uncertain reward with arbitrary / controlled odds. Because while it doesn’t constitute the legal definition of “gambling”, it is 100% a gateway behaviour which preys upon the exact same psychological flaws and causes people to pay way over the odds for goods or services, AKA a predatory monetization strategy.

This issue is present with game lootboxes, collectible cards & other toys, and is the case with these challenge swaps.

The trouble with the legal definition of gambling is it doesn’t adequately cover instances which use the same tactics and have the same moral issues, but reward things of indirect monetary value. And that’s a big problem because people still lose money on these things, they still form addictions, and can be just as damaging as a gateway into more dangerous spending habits.

It’s also an issue because since these things aren’t covered by the legal definition, more and more companies are implementing these tactics in their games & businesses, normalizing this behaviour both to the consumer and to the industry.

So yes legally it’s not “gambling”, but it’s a related practice and you only need to take a look at how prevalent challenge swaps are in the pass to see how heavily this system is designed around them. At the end of the day it’s a loophole to use lootbox mechanics while still saying they’re lootbox free, just like lootboxes are a loophole to use gambling mechanics while saying you are gambling free.

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its going to be so customizable and immersive game yet!, nothing like it to date! However, one small detail. You have to be Jeff Bezos to experience the game in all its glory!

Dont worry guys this is something they are doing on purpose. Aside from gameplay, and the story itself, the game has been designed to be so broken with the battlepass and the challenges and what not, ON PURPOSE. Why you ask? because when we inevitably complain about it, they are going to “fix” it, making themselves appear as though they are the saviors.

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It’s not gambling per se, but I agree with your concerns. Gatekeeping challenges by limiting how many are active at the same time is so ridiculous, all weekly challenges should be active at the same time. No extra slot for battlepass owner and all that crap.

I have played other game with battle pass, they don’t have such crappy system.

Yeh that’s a good point. Didn’t really think of the challenges as gambling until read this. I guess that was sneaky of 343i since one of the biggest complaints about Halo 5 was the loot box gambling.

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Halo 5 was gambling. Halo Infinite just encouraged me to stock up on bulk discounted Rockstar drinks since I get 2 XP and 2 swaps for $1 per can. The challenge system is garbage and should be replaced with an MCC model with the current model as bonus optional challenges for extra XP progression, but not the primary model and only source of XP. There have been some awful challenges in there though, like destroying enemy scorpions and wraiths, or ending enemy streaks, but otherwise, most are pretty doable and not worth wasting skips on.

Yeah its not gambling just needs to be improved

It’s gambling…and not “surprise mechanics” like some companies like to make people believe.

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If people hate it so much, don’t bother with challenges. That’s the only way change comes about.

  1. don’t do, don’t use, don’t pay.
  2. company then re-thinks
  3. consumer wins.

so simple. instead of complaining about the grinding, cosmetics etc. just ignore it.

just saying “pfft…i’m doing the challenges but i’m not liking them” does not bring about a change.

you don’t need to do challenges, you don’t need to buy / unlock skins.

i see many seem to think every mp game needs things like challenges, xp, unlocks, cosmetics, skins to be worth playing…

what happened to just playing for fun? maps and modes should be what keep players interested.

we’ve become too addicted to all the grindy bs in games.

play for fun peeps.