> 2533274829339976;136:
> > 2533274833375794;135:
> > Xbox one should have been created with specs to handle a Halo game with graphics to blow away the last gen versions and support 4 split screen…that should have been the benchmark. Everything could only go uphill from there.
>
>
>
> Believe it or not, the Xbox One does have the necessary specs to handle 4PSS with faster performance then last gen. Of course, it has to be optimized. The remaining question is whether or not 343 is willing to optimize it.
No it doesn’t.
All the devs like 343, Crytek, Naughty Dog, etc. would have loved the xbox one and ps4 to have amazing hardware, but no one would pay $700 for the consoles.
Optimization will only get you so far, but when both consoles are nearly equivalent to a radeon 7870 or so, there’s only so much devs can do.
Say the xbox one had an equivalent GPU to like a R9 290 or GTX 780, then i think 4 player splitscreen can be done correctly.
Look how hard H4 pushed the 360. It’s simply not feasible for halo 5 to do 4 player splitscreen.
They would have to go back and create lower-quality versions of all the assests(3d models, textures, shaders, lighting system, etc.) to dumb it down so it can run smoothly which would only take longer and cost more for the. Look at say crysis for example, crytek could’ve made a less demanding version, but no developer would ever do that.
I bet you 4 player co-op won’t even be able to pull a smooth 30 fps most of the time like reach and Halo 3 did. Bungie disabled water effects and other things for reach splitscreen, but it still lagged especially on forge community maps.
Suppose 343 adds 4 player co-op for all of you…I guarantee this forum will be swamped with posts complaining about insane lag and slow gameplay.
I’m confident 4 player H5 will be able to run at 30fps. THE PROBLEM IS that it will dip far below 30fps most of the time especially in intense situations such as 3 players chucking grenades at a flag carrier and explosions happening all over the place.
Halo 5 will have 10x the graphics Advanced Warfare has and Advanced Warfare lags online with just two player splitscreen.
I’m fine with locking our frame rates down… Why are newer gen consoles always taking away? why allow up to 4 controller to be connected if the main IP from microsoft won’t support it. Does microsoft not making a net income by selling controllers, headsets and xbox live? Why aren’t you giving us 4 player splitscreen?
I mean for crying out loud ONLY reason I am a xbox live member to this day is because I got to play as a guest in halo 2 and I didn’t like not having or being able to play rank match so I made my own account. You now make 50x3 from our family since 3 of us pay for xbox live. If you only support 2 player splitcreen= you ruining our experience 1st with mcc and now no 4 player split screen? what’s next?
> 2533274835893351;142:
> I’m fine with locking our frame rates down… Why are newer gen consoles always taking away? why allow up to 4 controller to be connected if the main IP from microsoft won’t support it. Does microsoft not making a net income by selling controllers, headsets and xbox live? Why aren’t you giving us 4 player splitscreen?
>
> I mean for crying out loud ONLY reason I am a xbox live member to this day is because I got to play as a guest in halo 2 and I didn’t like not having or being able to play rank match so I made my own account. You now make 50x3 from our family since 3 of us pay for xbox live. If you only support 2 player splitcreen= you ruining our experience 1st with mcc and now no 4 player split screen? what’s next?
They can lock the frame rate down that’s not the problem, the problem is the frame rate will drop ridiculously low during heavy combat.
For example, in BF4 on pc when i look at the sky i get 90-100 fps.
If i look down normally where all the action is happening that 90-100 dips down to 40-60.
(I have an older phenom ii x6 cpu which bottlenecks my r9 290).
Now imagine the frame rate at 30…how ugly and stuttery things will get during intense areas it will dip down as low as 20, which will be unplayable.
Only solution to 4 player splitscreen is for 343 to create additional lower quality assets, that would replace the default high res ones when multiple players are playing.
However that would require additional time, effort, and money which i really don’t believe they will do and additional storage space on the disc and then on the console since games have to be installed.
Splitscreen halo is a childhood memory for me, it sucks hard that it can’t be done, but oh well.
This whole console generation is about pushing visual fidelity, 343 will not sacrifice that.
> 2533274974596436;144:
> I’m honestly surprised that people are against this. You fools should be ashamed of yourselves.
>
> #SaveHaloNight
No one is against it you fool take the time and read. It just isn’t possible due to the xbox one and ps4 being not as powerful as devs hoped they would be.
It truly is shameful that the next-gen consoles, especially the Xbox One, are so lackluster when it comes to computational and graphics power.
That being said, if they don’t find a way to keep 4-player split-screen fully supported (i.e. FPS never below 30) in Halo 5, they will be destroying a defining characteristic of Halo - social gaming. It’s what put CE on the map.
Here’s how we know that there’s much more that 343 could be doing, but isn’t doing, to make split-screen better: Halo 4’s 4-player split-screen on the Xbox One has experienced virtually zero improvement over its Xbox 360 counterpart. That is inexcusable.
#Halo5SplitScreen P.S. Everybody reading this far sure as hell better be blasting 343 on Twitter @franklez, @PlutonForEver, @JoshingtonState, @Brav, @Halo, etc. I refuse to lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.
I don’t mine having 4 player split screen at all and it help out a lot for my Halo Parties I been holding since Halo CE came all those years ago.
But for some improvements I would like to see on the Xbox One are
Since the Xbox One has the feature to use 8 players on one Xbox I would love to see this be on the future Halo games. - Now yes I do understand that’s a lot of people on one screen but if a player has 50’’ and higher then its possible.
If the 8 players was put on or not I would love to see a adaptor to come out to stream the other 3 or 7 screen to a different TV. So what this would do is take the other screens off one Xbox and stream them to a split screen adapter that plugs in the HDMI port on another TV. So each guest player would now have there own screen.
When one player signs out make it so it doesn’t kick everyone from the party.
If we have a vote system or not make it count as one vote per account.
If there’s loadout make it so everything that the normal player has unlock it unlocks it for all the guest as well.
If a player has to change there controller layouts or anything else make it so it comes up on that player screen only. (Like in Halo 2)
I would like the notification to pop up in the top left or right hand corner of the normal player screen only.
Drop the frame rate down a little bit so everything nice and smooth at all times.
These are the ideas I love to see on the Xbox One. I will update it when I think of some more…
> 2533274804280158;148:
> 8. Drop the frame rate down a little bit so everything nice and smooth at all times.
They can lock it to either 60 or 30, but either way it will dip heavily during intense moments. Seeing the halo 5 e3 trailer, i’m pretty sure we will be exploring vast environments bigger than other halo games before.
pretend there is a horse. The more you pack onto that horse the slower it will go. There is no way to make the horse stronger. Only option is to get a bigger better horse who is much stronger.
MS would have to push out a new console. I had a bad feeling these so called next gen consoles wouldn’t be that great hardware wise. Only reason i have an xbox one is to play halo.
I would have rather preferred that MS and Sony charged $600 and provide a much superior machine.
If the xbox one had a beefy gpu, 4 player splitscreen wouldn’t have been an issue
> 2533274874116484;146:
> Here’s how we know that there’s much more that 343 could be doing, but isn’t doing, to make split-screen better: Halo 4’s 4-player split-screen on the Xbox One has experienced virtually zero improvement over its Xbox 360 counterpart. That is inexcusable.
>
> #Halo5SplitScreen
> P.S. Everybody reading this far sure as hell better be blasting 343 on Twitter @franklez, @PlutonForEver, @JoshingtonState, @Brav, @Halo, etc. I refuse to lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.
Halo 4 was a simple port to xbox one. I bet you if halo 4 was rebuilt for xbox one from scratch it would be much better than the 360 version.
“lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.”
You just don’t get it do you? The devs can only do as much as the hardware provides. In pc gaming dev’s can implement whatever feature they want and if your pc can’t handle it than f*** you too bad.
343 obviously can’t do that since they’re dealing with a console audience.
> 2533274846258994;150:
> > 2533274874116484;146:
> > Here’s how we know that there’s much more that 343 could be doing, but isn’t doing, to make split-screen better: Halo 4’s 4-player split-screen on the Xbox One has experienced virtually zero improvement over its Xbox 360 counterpart. That is inexcusable.
> >
> > #Halo5SplitScreen
> > P.S. Everybody reading this far sure as hell better be blasting 343 on Twitter @franklez, @PlutonForEver, @JoshingtonState, @Brav, @Halo, etc. I refuse to lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.
>
>
> Halo 4 was a simple port to xbox one. I bet you if halo 4 was rebuilt for xbox one from scratch it would be much better than the 360 version.
>
> “lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.”
> You just don’t get it do you? The devs can only do as much as the hardware provides. In pc gaming dev’s can implement whatever feature they want and if your pc can’t handle it than f*** you too bad.
> 343 obviously can’t do that since they’re dealing with a console audience.
You are underestimating the computing power of this console generation. You are overestimating the computing power required for split screen. The console doesn’t actually have to do 4x the work because of optimization. This optimization is equivelant to the low graphics mode for PC gaming. It’s amazing how much performance changes between the low setting and the high setting.
Optimization alone doesn’t do it, of course. The next step is the use of concurrency, where multiple processes — called threads — are used for computing. This allows the CPU to do multiple things at the exact same time, reducing the number of subroutines between each iteration in the main loop.
Split screen needs both to function at it’s highest potential. Optimization is simple, concurrency is a pain in the -Yoink- — any programmer will say the same thing. However, it is possible and well worth the effort, because concurrency is a very powerful and useful tool, especially when the procedure for the game becomes so complicated that the GPU can’t keep up.
> 2533274846258994;141:
> > 2533274829339976;136:
> > > 2533274833375794;135:
> > > Xbox one should have been created with specs to handle a Halo game with graphics to blow away the last gen versions and support 4 split screen…that should have been the benchmark. Everything could only go uphill from there.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Believe it or not, the Xbox One does have the necessary specs to handle 4PSS with faster performance then last gen. Of course, it has to be optimized. The remaining question is whether or not 343 is willing to optimize it.
>
>
> No it doesn’t.
> All the devs like 343, Crytek, Naughty Dog, etc. would have loved the xbox one and ps4 to have amazing hardware, but no one would pay $700 for the consoles.
> Optimization will only get you so far, but when both consoles are nearly equivalent to a radeon 7870 or so, there’s only so much devs can do.
> Say the xbox one had an equivalent GPU to like a R9 290 or GTX 780, then i think 4 player splitscreen can be done correctly.
>
> Look how hard H4 pushed the 360. It’s simply not feasible for halo 5 to do 4 player splitscreen.
> They would have to go back and create lower-quality versions of all the assests(3d models, textures, shaders, lighting system, etc.) to dumb it down so it can run smoothly which would only take longer and cost more for the. Look at say crysis for example, crytek could’ve made a less demanding version, but no developer would ever do that.
> I bet you 4 player co-op won’t even be able to pull a smooth 30 fps most of the time like reach and Halo 3 did. Bungie disabled water effects and other things for reach splitscreen, but it still lagged especially on forge community maps.
>
> Suppose 343 adds 4 player co-op for all of you…I guarantee this forum will be swamped with posts complaining about insane lag and slow gameplay.
>
> I’m confident 4 player H5 will be able to run at 30fps. THE PROBLEM IS that it will dip far below 30fps most of the time especially in intense situations such as 3 players chucking grenades at a flag carrier and explosions happening all over the place.
>
> Halo 5 will have 10x the graphics Advanced Warfare has and Advanced Warfare lags online with just two player splitscreen.
Irrelevant. A big thing about splitscreen is just playing 2v2 with your friends. Not just playing in matchmaking as guests. People will readily accept an exchange of visuals as a tradeoff for 4 player splitscreen. I know I am.
> 2533274829339976;151:
> > 2533274846258994;150:
> > > 2533274874116484;146:
> > > Here’s how we know that there’s much more that 343 could be doing, but isn’t doing, to make split-screen better: Halo 4’s 4-player split-screen on the Xbox One has experienced virtually zero improvement over its Xbox 360 counterpart. That is inexcusable.
> > >
> > > #Halo5SplitScreen
> > > P.S. Everybody reading this far sure as hell better be blasting 343 on Twitter @franklez, @PlutonForEver, @JoshingtonState, @Brav, @Halo, etc. I refuse to lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Halo 4 was a simple port to xbox one. I bet you if halo 4 was rebuilt for xbox one from scratch it would be much better than the 360 version.
> >
> > “lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.”
> > You just don’t get it do you? The devs can only do as much as the hardware provides. In pc gaming dev’s can implement whatever feature they want and if your pc can’t handle it than f*** you too bad.
> > 343 obviously can’t do that since they’re dealing with a console audience.
>
>
> You are underestimating the computing power of this console generation. You are overestimating the computing power required for split screen. The console doesn’t actually have to do 4x the work because of optimization. This optimization is equivelant to the low graphics mode for PC gaming. It’s amazing how much performance changes between the low setting and the high setting.
>
> Optimization alone doesn’t do it, of course. The next step is the use of concurrency, where multiple processes — called threads — are used for computing. This allows the CPU to do multiple things at the exact same time, reducing the number of subroutines between each iteration in the main loop.
>
> Split screen needs both to function at it’s highest potential. Optimization is simple, concurrency is a pain in the -Yoink- — any programmer will say the same thing. However, it is possible and well worth the effort, because concurrency is a very powerful and useful tool, especially when the procedure for the game becomes so complicated that the GPU can’t keep up.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t DirectX12 help with this? With concurrency?
> 2533274873486404;153:
> > 2533274829339976;151:
> > > 2533274846258994;150:
> > > > 2533274874116484;146:
> > > > Here’s how we know that there’s much more that 343 could be doing, but isn’t doing, to make split-screen better: Halo 4’s 4-player split-screen on the Xbox One has experienced virtually zero improvement over its Xbox 360 counterpart. That is inexcusable.
> > > >
> > > > #Halo5SplitScreen
> > > > P.S. Everybody reading this far sure as hell better be blasting 343 on Twitter @franklez, @PlutonForEver, @JoshingtonState, @Brav, @Halo, etc. I refuse to lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo 4 was a simple port to xbox one. I bet you if halo 4 was rebuilt for xbox one from scratch it would be much better than the 360 version.
> > >
> > > “lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.”
> > > You just don’t get it do you? The devs can only do as much as the hardware provides. In pc gaming dev’s can implement whatever feature they want and if your pc can’t handle it than f*** you too bad.
> > > 343 obviously can’t do that since they’re dealing with a console audience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You are underestimating the computing power of this console generation. You are overestimating the computing power required for split screen. The console doesn’t actually have to do 4x the work because of optimization. This optimization is equivelant to the low graphics mode for PC gaming. It’s amazing how much performance changes between the low setting and the high setting.
> >
> > Optimization alone doesn’t do it, of course. The next step is the use of concurrency, where multiple processes — called threads — are used for computing. This allows the CPU to do multiple things at the exact same time, reducing the number of subroutines between each iteration in the main loop.
> >
> > Split screen needs both to function at it’s highest potential. Optimization is simple, concurrency is a pain in the -Yoink- — any programmer will say the same thing. However, it is possible and well worth the effort, because concurrency is a very powerful and useful tool, especially when the procedure for the game becomes so complicated that the GPU can’t keep up.
>
>
>
> Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t DirectX12 help with this? With concurrency?
I sure hope so. All I know is I will never forgive MS for making the GPU so much weaker than the PS4’s. We wouldn’t have to rely on bandaids like “properly utilized ESRAM”, 50% of one additional core (which is being opened up for devs in Xbox’s new API release), and DirectX 12. We just need stronger -Yoinking!- graphics.
> I sure hope so. All I know is I will never forgive MS for making the GPU so much weaker than the PS4’s. We wouldn’t have to rely on bandaids like “properly utilized ESRAM”, 50% of one additional core (which is being opened up for devs in Xbox’s new API release), and DirectX 12. We just need stronger -Yoinking!- graphics.
PS4 and Xbox one have the same APU (cpu + gpu combo) it’s just that the xbox one has more resources dedicated to system functions like multi-tasking.
> 2533274829339976;151:
> > 2533274846258994;150:
> > > 2533274874116484;146:
> > > Here’s how we know that there’s much more that 343 could be doing, but isn’t doing, to make split-screen better: Halo 4’s 4-player split-screen on the Xbox One has experienced virtually zero improvement over its Xbox 360 counterpart. That is inexcusable.
> > >
> > > #Halo5SplitScreen
> > > P.S. Everybody reading this far sure as hell better be blasting 343 on Twitter @franklez, @PlutonForEver, @JoshingtonState, @Brav, @Halo, etc. I refuse to lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Halo 4 was a simple port to xbox one. I bet you if halo 4 was rebuilt for xbox one from scratch it would be much better than the 360 version.
> >
> > “lose this game-defining feature because of a bunch of incompetent, lazy programmers.”
> > You just don’t get it do you? The devs can only do as much as the hardware provides. In pc gaming dev’s can implement whatever feature they want and if your pc can’t handle it than f*** you too bad.
> > 343 obviously can’t do that since they’re dealing with a console audience.
>
>
> You are underestimating the computing power of this console generation. You are overestimating the computing power required for split screen. The console doesn’t actually have to do 4x the work because of optimization. This optimization is equivelant to the low graphics mode for PC gaming. It’s amazing how much performance changes between the low setting and the high setting.
>
> Optimization alone doesn’t do it, of course. The next step is the use of concurrency, where multiple processes — called threads — are used for computing. This allows the CPU to do multiple things at the exact same time, reducing the number of subroutines between each iteration in the main loop.
>
> Split screen needs both to function at it’s highest potential. Optimization is simple, concurrency is a pain in the -Yoink- — any programmer will say the same thing. However, it is possible and well worth the effort, because concurrency is a very powerful and useful tool, especially when the procedure for the game becomes so complicated that the GPU can’t keep up.
Everyone knew that this console generation was going to be under powered.
I hope they can get it working right at a nice constant 30 fps at least, 4 player is a staple of halo i grew up playing it as well
Side note: I used COD: AW as an example, i just realized that game has -Yoink- optimization anyways lol sorry
> 2533274846258994;156:
> Everyone knew that this console generation was going to be under powered.
Yeah, but not that underpowered. Just because it wasn’t the best hardware available doesn’t mean that it’s underpowered. It is actually quite powerful, just not the best.
> 2533274846258994;156:
> I hope they can get it working right at a nice constant 30 fps at least, 4 player is a staple of halo i grew up playing it as well
Glad to have you with our cause!
> 2533274846258994;156:
> Side note: I used COD: AW as an example, i just realized that game has -Yoink- optimization anyways lol sorry
also allow the option that each splitscreened player can have the option to vote maps by turn
you know like, kinda unfair how in MCC maps get extra votes in a single press of a button.
Sure there might be people who will force but, not everyone will do a huge change i believe.
> 2533274829339976;1:
> Welcome to the Official Splitscreen Thread.
> (Please make yourself at home.)
>
> We’ve all heard the news: Halo 5 won’t support 4 player split screen, according to multiple tweets from Josh Holmes. We have to take Holmes’ words seriously because he’s the creative director for Halo 5, meaning that he makes those kinds of decisions.
>
> As an individual who uses 4 player split screen often, this decision is extremely disappointing; it’s a shame because I loved the beta. The fact is, Halo 5’s lack of splitscreen support discourages me from buying it, and might prevent me from buying it. I certainty won’t pre-order it.
>
> Here’s the deal: if 343 wants our support, their going to have to reconsider this decision.
>
> Reasons to support 4 player splitscreen:
> - 343 will get my money
> - Splitscreen is one of the few advantages that console gaming has over PC gaming
> - Halo 5 will have a feature that its competition lacks
> - LAN parties will once again prosper
> - The social lives of gamers will flourish
> - Every single Halo FPS has featured 4 player splitscreen
> - Not including it for performance reasons makes the Xbox One seem like an inferior console
> - From a logical standpoint, it doesn’t make sense to remove splitscreen on next gen hardware
> - Splitscreen was one of the major reasons that allowed Halo Combat Evolved to be successful
> - Halo night will live on
> - Including split screen due to consumer backlash can help improve 343’s abysmal public relation reputation
> - The lack of 4 player split screen could be considered a design flaw
> - A considerable amount of split screen users are willing to sacrifice graphics for performance
> - Single player graphics won’t be effected by split screen optimizations
> - Removing it makes the game less flexible
> - Splitscreen is a great way to advertise the game to friends, making them likely to buy it after playing it on your Xbox
> - 1v1 multiplayer isn’t a particularly memorable experience
> Todo List for Optimizing Splitscreen
> - Lock the split screen frame rate at 30 FPS to provide a consistent experience and allow the user’s brain to adapt
> - Disable anti aliasing, anistereopic filtering, depth of field, FXAA and dynamic lighting on split screen
> - Reduce/remove particles, mist/smoke effects, decals, and shaders on split screen
> - * Important: Use reduced-polygon meshes on split screen. Most 3D modeling programs have a plugin that will do this.
> - Reduce the render distance but don’t go crazy on it. We should be able to spot other players across the map. (Geometry can simplify, but make sure that players are distinguishable.)
> - Use low-res textures on split screen but make that they aren’t loaded at runtime.
> Raising Awareness for Splitscreen
> The developers at 343 don’t browse these forums on a regular basis, and frankly, I don’t blame them. The problem is, they won’t see this thread. In order to effectively convince 343, we need to use social media to contact them.
>
> I’ve created a hashtag on Twitter for our cause: #Halo5SplitScreen. Hash tags are powerful and spread quickly.
>
> In order to raise awareness, tweet why you support split screen to @Halo, @JoshingtonState (Josh Holmes), @Brav, etc. Be respectful and polite: you catch more bees with honey. Be sure to provide a link to this thread because it contains valuable information. Also, include the hashtag I mentioned.
>
> References to split screen from 343
> - https://twitter.com/joshingtonstate/status/545000766969114625
> - https://twitter.com/joshingtonstate/status/551899554191142912
> - https://twitter.com/joshingtonstate/status/546126391201128448
> I’ll add to the OP once my Writer’s Block clears up.
>
> Until then, let us come together and prove to Josh Holmes and the rest of 343 Industries that this is unacceptable.
