> 2533274798578400;1060:
> > 2533274953442704;1058:
> > > 2533274798578400;1057:
> > > > 2533274829339976;1054:
> > > > > 2535417899972539;1051:
> > > > > > 2533274798578400;1045:
> > > > > > > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > > > > > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > > > > > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Source? I find that incredibly hard to believe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah… I don’t know about that one
> > >
> > >
> > > Believe it. I didn’t just make that number up, i looked at a few articles and shot for the middle. I try to pull things out of my -Yoink- as little as possible I picked a number that is actually less than some estimates.
> > >
> > > Look Here, and Here, and Here (citing the same study) and Here, and Here is an interesting one about how the average age changed from 37 to 30 in one year due to changes in the calculation including things like mobile that used not to count. And check the “Demographics” section of this too.
> >
> >
> > ya but just because a bunch of old ladies play candy crush doesn’t mean they are “gamers”. Still surprised by the data. I’m 28 and feel like most people my age that I know personally aren’t all that into games. Unless they’re playing with me at a LAN party on 4 player split screen… GRRRRR
>
>
> Lol I thought that too! but if you read the Ars Technica article, it shows that the average age of “gamers” actual went down when they started to include handhelds and mobile devices where games like “Candy Crush” are played on. That would suggest that the average console (and PC-master-race) players are actually older than the 30-31 years old cited by the studies. Previous studies that only counted PC and Consoles had the average at at 37.
>
> Granted, people over their mid 20’s (like me, im 29) may not play as much per-capita as younger kids, But that is because they have jobs and other life responsibilities. That older group is still the group that has the disposable income to actually buy the majority of games and consoles who are usually buying these things for the younger crowd. And the younger (read: teenagers) crowd are not intelligent enough consumers/don’t have a “real” concept of money to make not having splitscreen only for co-op make it not worth it to spend someone else’s money.
That’s actually quite interesting. I still believe our age group uses split screen. Of course I like to get on live and play with a bunch of people I don’t know as well, but the most fun is definitely had through split screen halo parties.I also think the slightly older crowd that does play would like to be able to play with their children. Again this isn’t the majority, but I have seen a number of people post on this thread whose situation is just that.
This news makes me very disappointed and upset. Split-Screen is the biggest aspect of Halo. When call of duty and every other FPS at the beginning of xbox 360 only went with solo or no local Split-Screen, but Halo. Now people have to bring an extra Xbox one to a friends house just to play Halo with them. I don’t think this is a smart move, especially since the multiplayer has been drastically changed and no word of a variant in the multiplayer that will be similar to what we got in Halo 4. I preordered the special edition halo, but with this news not sure if spending $250 for a game I’m becoming more and more weary about is worth it.
> 2533274953442704;1063:
> > 2533274798578400;1060:
> > > 2533274953442704;1058:
> > > > 2533274798578400;1057:
> > > > > 2533274829339976;1054:
> > > > > > 2535417899972539;1051:
> > > > > > > 2533274798578400;1045:
> > > > > > > > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > > > > > > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Source? I find that incredibly hard to believe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah… I don’t know about that one
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Believe it. I didn’t just make that number up, i looked at a few articles and shot for the middle. I try to pull things out of my -Yoink- as little as possible I picked a number that is actually less than some estimates.
> > > >
> > > > Look Here, and Here, and Here (citing the same study) and Here, and Here is an interesting one about how the average age changed from 37 to 30 in one year due to changes in the calculation including things like mobile that used not to count. And check the “Demographics” section of this too.
> > >
> > >
> > > ya but just because a bunch of old ladies play candy crush doesn’t mean they are “gamers”. Still surprised by the data. I’m 28 and feel like most people my age that I know personally aren’t all that into games. Unless they’re playing with me at a LAN party on 4 player split screen… GRRRRR
> >
> >
> > Lol I thought that too! but if you read the Ars Technica article, it shows that the average age of “gamers” actual went down when they started to include handhelds and mobile devices where games like “Candy Crush” are played on. That would suggest that the average console (and PC-master-race) players are actually older than the 30-31 years old cited by the studies. Previous studies that only counted PC and Consoles had the average at at 37.
> >
> > Granted, people over their mid 20’s (like me, im 29) may not play as much per-capita as younger kids, But that is because they have jobs and other life responsibilities. That older group is still the group that has the disposable income to actually buy the majority of games and consoles who are usually buying these things for the younger crowd. And the younger (read: teenagers) crowd are not intelligent enough consumers/don’t have a “real” concept of money to make not having splitscreen only for co-op make it not worth it to spend someone else’s money.
>
>
> That’s actually quite interesting. I still believe our age group uses split screen. Of course I like to get on live and play with a bunch of people I don’t know as well, but the most fun is definitely had through split screen halo parties.I also think the slightly older crowd that does play would like to be able to play with their children. Again this isn’t the majority, but I have seen a number of people post on this thread whose situation is just that.
Yeah i totally agree. I would like for there to still be campaign split-screen mostly because it just feels right to have it in there even though I know I will never use it.
When I do go to LAN parties I always play solo on a screen anyway since I bring my own box, monitor and headphones. We never play campaign though, only multiplayer and multiple is going to have 2 player split screen which is all we (by we i mean my friends, not the whole world haha) need. I would rather take turns than play on a tiny screen with 3 or 4 player split screen.
> 2533274848599184;1062:
> Splitscreen or a watered down campaign? Thats what you are choosing.
This is so not true.
Hey, remember every other halo game ever? (Halo Wars not withstanding. And… maybe the isometric ones. Anywho.) Their campaigns didn’t suffer from splitscreen. Neither did their multiplayer. Even halo 4 kept up split screen goodness even if they screwed up co-op. (Seriously, Spartan Ops needing live was dumb.)
The worse thing they should need to do is maybe reduce draw distance or lower resolution. I mean, unless they’re doing what Call of Duty did, which was kill 4 player splitscreen but added in bots, this really isn’t necessary. But that still has 2 player splitscreen. (Not for campaign, unfortunately, but everything else does.)
> 2533274953442704;894:
> > 2533274870973785;760:
> > God, so many of you are acting like you’re entitled to having split screen, and if you’re spamming peoples’ twitter accounts, you’re really immature. 1080p 60fps is the new standard with big titles like this, and games have been moving further and further away from local multiplayer for a while now. You’re all trying to make it seem like 343 is so terrible because they’re not including split screen, but I’m sure if they could, they would. Being displeased about something is fine, but acting like how some of you are acting is kind of pathetic.
>
>
> Just because you disagree doesn’t mean you should criticize. Try to understand how important this is to people. How else are they supposed to be heard?
Interesting how @CJ Stormblessed doesn’t think that anyone should have split screen just because he / she doesn’t want it. A typical entitled response from someone who only thinks about themselves. Well, we have more than one person in the family who wants to play this game and EXCUSE ME if we don’t have enough money to buy a second Xbox One AND a second TV. Glad you don’t care about anyone but yourself and how a whole lot of us have to budget for our games. Thanks for taking a dump on all of us with your superiority and your support of a crappy developer decision that screws a large number of the customer base.
> 2533274791810484;1043:
> > 2533274848599184;1038:
> > > 2533274798011936;1037:
> > > Look, as someone who was monumentally disappointed in the lack of co-op splitscreen–something Josh Holmes assured us 3 separate times would be in back in December–if there is a legitimate technical reason that the game needs to run at 60FPS, then nothing we say will matter for co-op because split screen is terrible for frame rates. Now personally I hope they can fix this, but if they can’t than they just can’t.
> >
> >
> > More people need to understand this
>
>
> I am sure that there could be ‘legitimate technical reasons’ as to why this cannot be the case. However, the same was said about the Xbox One’s online only requirement and we know how quickly that was back-pedalled upon and shelved. The Kinect was billed as a fundamental, un-removable, critical aspect of the Xbox One and they have reneged on that as well. Now, I know Microsoft is NOT 343i, but saying it CANNOT be done is unlikely surely? To have made the design decision to aim for a consistent 60FPS across all game modes is understandably admirable and there is no denying it is a beautiful looking game, but to do this at the expense of a feature that every single other Halo game since the beginning has had is what smarts most for me. I’m also pretty tired of hearing what things CANNOT be done only to find that actually, yes, they could be done.
>
> No one would expect them to scupper the solo single-player if they are going for high quality visuals, high resolution, 60 frames but the single-player and split-screen are two different beasts, or at least you would have thought they could / should be. I’d definitely take a hit in frame rate or visual fidelity for the sake of having local co-op and not complain one iota.
>
> I, like you, also hope that something will come to pass but I will not go quietly into the good night before such time passes!!
>
> [EDIT: Typos]
I was just making this same argument last night. I hope 343i listens to the community and brings back local co-op in some way, perhaps in a day one patch/update.
> 2533274798578400;1066:
> > 2533274953442704;1063:
> > > 2533274798578400;1060:
> > > > 2533274953442704;1058:
> > > > > 2533274798578400;1057:
> > > > > > 2533274829339976;1054:
> > > > > > > 2535417899972539;1051:
> > > > > > > > 2533274798578400;1045:
> > > > > > > > > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > > > > > > > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Source? I find that incredibly hard to believe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah… I don’t know about that one
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Believe it. I didn’t just make that number up, i looked at a few articles and shot for the middle. I try to pull things out of my -Yoink- as little as possible I picked a number that is actually less than some estimates.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look Here, and Here, and Here (citing the same study) and Here, and Here is an interesting one about how the average age changed from 37 to 30 in one year due to changes in the calculation including things like mobile that used not to count. And check the “Demographics” section of this too.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ya but just because a bunch of old ladies play candy crush doesn’t mean they are “gamers”. Still surprised by the data. I’m 28 and feel like most people my age that I know personally aren’t all that into games. Unless they’re playing with me at a LAN party on 4 player split screen… GRRRRR
> > >
> > >
> > > Lol I thought that too! but if you read the Ars Technica article, it shows that the average age of “gamers” actual went down when they started to include handhelds and mobile devices where games like “Candy Crush” are played on. That would suggest that the average console (and PC-master-race) players are actually older than the 30-31 years old cited by the studies. Previous studies that only counted PC and Consoles had the average at at 37.
> > >
> > > Granted, people over their mid 20’s (like me, im 29) may not play as much per-capita as younger kids, But that is because they have jobs and other life responsibilities. That older group is still the group that has the disposable income to actually buy the majority of games and consoles who are usually buying these things for the younger crowd. And the younger (read: teenagers) crowd are not intelligent enough consumers/don’t have a “real” concept of money to make not having splitscreen only for co-op make it not worth it to spend someone else’s money.
> >
> >
> > That’s actually quite interesting. I still believe our age group uses split screen. Of course I like to get on live and play with a bunch of people I don’t know as well, but the most fun is definitely had through split screen halo parties.I also think the slightly older crowd that does play would like to be able to play with their children. Again this isn’t the majority, but I have seen a number of people post on this thread whose situation is just that.
>
>
> Yeah i totally agree. I would like for there to still be campaign split-screen mostly because it just feels right to have it in there even though I know I will never use it.
>
> When I do go to LAN parties I always play solo on a screen anyway since I bring my own box, monitor and headphones. We never play campaign though, only multiplayer and multiple is going to have 2 player split screen which is all we (by we i mean my friends, not the whole world haha) need. I would rather take turns than play on a tiny screen with 3 or 4 player split screen.
I’m used to playing 4 players on a 20-32 inch tv from when I was a kid. We still play some 4 player split screen now when we have halo parties, but that’s either on a projector or 55 inch. Not ideal, but it allows us to have more people play since we only have 3-4 guys with systems.
> 2533274861160024;1068:
> > 2533274953442704;894:
> > > 2533274870973785;760:
> > > God, so many of you are acting like you’re entitled to having split screen, and if you’re spamming peoples’ twitter accounts, you’re really immature. 1080p 60fps is the new standard with big titles like this, and games have been moving further and further away from local multiplayer for a while now. You’re all trying to make it seem like 343 is so terrible because they’re not including split screen, but I’m sure if they could, they would. Being displeased about something is fine, but acting like how some of you are acting is kind of pathetic.
> >
> >
> > Just because you disagree doesn’t mean you should criticize. Try to understand how important this is to people. How else are they supposed to be heard?
>
>
> Interesting how @CJ Stormblessed doesn’t think that anyone should have split screen just because he / she doesn’t want it. A typical entitled response from someone who only thinks about themselves. Well, we have more than one person in the family who wants to play this game and EXCUSE ME if we don’t have enough money to buy a second Xbox One AND a second TV. Glad you don’t care about anyone but yourself and how a whole lot of us have to budget for our games. Thanks for taking a dump on all of us with your superiority and your support of a crappy developer decision that screws a large number of the customer base.
Hey now, I was the one stating people shouldn’t disagree. I want local split screen! not sure how you missed that, but it’s all good. Just watned to set you straight.
Just to give people some tech back-end information.
A game can have various FPS modes set to various components. Some games frequently give higher FPS in single player vs Multiplayer or vice-versa. What I’m trying to say is - cutting split-screen was NOT done solely because of the preservation of FPS. They could have very well have 60FPS for lone player while switching to 30 FPS for co-op play/splitscreen. They did not do so. This is ridiculous, with this new hardware - it seems that some of the features that gamers just took for granted and as of-course-this-will-be-supported are now being dropped.
I seriously believe that this was not a tech limitation, but that the co-op splitscreen play was dropped due to some design decision.
> 2533274818084099;1073:
> Just to give people some tech back-end information.
>
> A game can have various FPS modes set to various components. Some games frequently give higher FPS in single player vs Multiplayer or vice-versa. What I’m trying to say is - cutting split-screen was NOT done solely because of the preservation of FPS. They could have very well have 60FPS for lone player while switching to 30 FPS for co-op play/splitscreen. They did not do so. This is ridiculous, with this new hardware - it seems that some of the features that gamers just took for granted and as of-course-this-will-be-supported are now being dropped.
> I seriously believe that this was not a tech limitation, but that the co-op splitscreen play was dropped due to some design decision.
Very, very true. This is pretty much the only rebuttal needed in this entire “debate” (if such an obviously one-sided dilemma can even be called a debate. Sort of like “debating” the shape of the Earth…)
> 2676022814316908;1077:
> > 2535417899972539;1076:
> > > 2533274818084099;1073:
> > > Sort of like “debating” the shape of the Earth…)
>
>
> It’s flat I say! FLAT!
> 2535413614971800;1078:
> I don’t get why people are making this a framerate vs splitescreen debate. Splitscreen only effects the framerate in splitscreen.
It’s because some people come in here saying we can’t have Split Screen because the game must be 60 FPS…
Which, of course, makes no sense. Split Screen wouldn’t have any effect on a solo play.
But as we go on with all this, it appears more and more that the exclusion of Split Screen isn’t just for the sake of having a 60 FPS experience.
> 2535413614971800;1078:
> I don’t get why people are making this a framerate vs splitescreen debate. Splitscreen only effects the framerate in splitscreen.
As I said, I don’t know how we can make this any clearer.
I picked a number that is actually less than some estimates.