> 2533274848599184;1038:
> > 2533274798011936;1037:
> > Look, as someone who was monumentally disappointed in the lack of co-op splitscreen–something Josh Holmes assured us 3 separate times would be in back in December–if there is a legitimate technical reason that the game needs to run at 60FPS, then nothing we say will matter for co-op because split screen is terrible for frame rates. Now personally I hope they can fix this, but if they can’t than they just can’t.
>
>
> More people need to understand this
I am sure that there could be ‘legitimate technical reasons’ as to why this cannot be the case. However, the same was said about the Xbox One’s online only requirement and we know how quickly that was back-pedalled upon and shelved. The Kinect was billed as a fundamental, un-removable, critical aspect of the Xbox One and they have reneged on that as well. Now, I know Microsoft is NOT 343i, but saying it CANNOT be done is unlikely surely? To have made the design decision to aim for a consistent 60FPS across all game modes is understandably admirable and there is no denying it is a beautiful looking game, but to do this at the expense of a feature that every single other Halo game since the beginning has had is what smarts most for me. I’m also pretty tired of hearing what things CANNOT be done only to find that actually, yes, they could be done.
No one would expect them to scupper the solo single-player if they are going for high quality visuals, high resolution, 60 frames but the single-player and split-screen are two different beasts, or at least you would have thought they could / should be. I’d definitely take a hit in frame rate or visual fidelity for the sake of having local co-op and not complain one iota.
I, like you, also hope that something will come to pass but I will not go quietly into the good night before such time passes!!
> 2535466179461106;1042:
> Dude so if I want to play with my little bros, my gf, my parents or my friends …I have to spend 2000$ for console/games/live/tv ? --’
> That’s laughable.
> 2535429756019039;785:
> > 2533274798578400;783:
> > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> >
> > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> >
> > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
>
>
> What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
> 2535417899972539;786:
> > 2533274798578400;783:
> > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> >
> > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> >
> > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
>
>
> Thanks for being level headed about it – truly. I will say this, though. There’s no way 343 could collect accurate metrics of split-screen usage, because so many people who use it are doing so because they’re not connected online! You can’t collect data from a family of 4 playing Halo in their living room on one console with no internet.
>
> That being said, whatever metrics they do manage to drum up will be additionally flawed, for this reason: it was 343i’s own poor implementation of split-screen with H4 and H2A (inconsistent framerate, virtually no LAN support) that has caused it to be used less often in the first place. They can’t honestly cite lower usage, because their own poor development is what led to that! Circular logic.
Certainly, those are good points too. I think another reason that less people are playing split-screen is because the average gamer population is aging. Most of the people that grew up playing halo and video games in general are at an age now where they own their own hardware. And when this is not the case, i think that most of the couch-coop is being done in multiplayer, not with the campaign. At least not outside the first couple of weeks after release.
Regardless, 343 should have found a way to make it work.
> 2533274798578400;1045:
> > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > >
> > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > >
> > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> >
> >
> > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
>
>
> That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
>
> And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
Amen to that, I think the biggest shame here and what most of the detractors to this argument aren’t recognising is that this is as much Halo as the two-weapon arsenal mechanic. As I mentioned in my oratory a few pages back, if they were changing THAT to resemble the mechanics of other FPS games then there would be an even more widespread uproar.
Just because many, most, lots, nearly all, pretty much everyone or whatever DON’T use the feature doesn’t mean it should be stripped from the long-established feature set. A large majority of people these days don’t use busses or public transport. Should we remove that because of the majority of car owners? How about land-line phones which are in great decline, should those be abolished because nowadays most people use social media, email, skype and mobile phones to conduct their day to day business? Or, to borrow an argument from earlier in this thread, how about McDonalds decide to stop supplying ketchup or other condiments just because the majority of people don’t use them perhaps?
> 2533274848599184;1035:
> > 2533274898924906;1024:
> > There’s something called Xbox Live… I’d rather have a working game running at it’s highest potential than another MCC…
>
>
> ^This
And another thing that I think is important is the fact that if Halo 5 has splitscreen, it’ll be the only competitive shooter that has it on the market (except for MCC but that doesn’t count.) I feel like 343 is missing out on a pretty significant advantage that’ll help Halo 5 stand up to it’s competition. People claim that we need to move past splitscreen. But let me ask you this: why should we?
> 2533274791810484;1043:
> [
> I, like you, also hope that something will come to pass but I will not go quietly into the good night before such time passes!!]
I grew up playing Halo with my girlfriend, who is now my wife. We play Halo together in split screen, campaign and multiplayer. 343 will be alienating the entire base that is similar to my situation by removing split screen. I will not be buying a Halo game for the first time if split screen is removed from Halo 5. I do not care about limiting FPS while in split screen, I still have fun with my wife on all of the previous games. Halo was also the only reason I had to buy an Xbox product over any other system.
> 2533274798578400;1045:
> > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > >
> > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > >
> > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> >
> >
> > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
>
>
> That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
>
> And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
I have posted a few times on here, and read all of this… I and my wife (both 32yo) Have played these split screen co-op from the beginning. I was military, deployed… what did we do when we weren’t working, to keep our minds off of everything going on around us… YEP, you guessed it, pulled out 4 TV’s, xbox’s, controller, and LAN partied the HECK out of these games… OPS vs. Maintenance, Officers vs. Enlisted… Everything you could think of… I refuse to accept the “it can’t be done”, all that says to me is you didn’t ask what we wanted. You didn’t say “Halo community, if we drop the frame rate in co-op, and multiplayer, are you okay with this, single player will still receive full frame rate though.” BECAUSE I COULD TELL YOU THE ANSWER WOULD HAVE BEEN AN OVERWHELMING YES!!! WE’RE OKAY WITH IT!!! I work for a living, bringing in enough money to do everything I want. I could afford to buy 2 XB1’s, and 2 games, and 2 memberships (which I already have 2 memberships since MS took away FAMILY GOLD WHICH ALSO NEEDS TO COME BACK!!!) Halo 5 is what was tipping the scale towards the purchase of an XB1, I have been waiting to purchase one… Get all the HW kinks out of the way, allow system updates, work through the developers learning the new HW and how to use it (AC Unity anyone!!!) But now I have to look at the facts, all the other games that I play, are available on PS4 (which I haven’t bought yet either) Kingdom Hearts 3, SW Battlefront, Assassins Creed, Dungeon Defenders 2 is exclusive to PS4 (don’t know why)… Without split screen, my wife and I won’t have a reason to buy the XB1, nor spend any more money on the games for MS to cash in on. I know that I have more than 100 titles for xbox 360 sitting in my family room. It’s bad enough that if I buy a XB1 that I can’t play them on there, but now your telling me that your last gen system is better for playing with my friends on because next gen can’t support it??? Then I can’t support you or MS… Something needs to change, WE ALL KNOW IT CAN BE DONE, just requires time and money… You want the money, have to make the fans happy
Guys, the change.org online petition to add split-screen co-op to Halo 5 already has 180 supporters, which is pretty freaking awesome. I won’t share the link because petitions aren’t allowed on Waypoint (◔_◔) but I just wanted to encourage you guys with that update
Keep going strong! At this rate, 343 will be forced to give an account of their decision at E3. And don’t forget to Tweet using #Halo5Splitscreen.
> 2535417899972539;1051:
> > 2533274798578400;1045:
> > > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > > >
> > > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
> >
> >
> > That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
> >
> > And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
>
>
> Source? I find that incredibly hard to believe
> 2535429431668342;1050:
> I grew up playing Halo with my girlfriend, who is now my wife. We play Halo together in split screen, campaign and multiplayer. 343 will be alienating the entire base that is similar to my situation by removing split screen. I will not be buying a Halo game for the first time if split screen is removed from Halo 5. I do not care about limiting FPS while in split screen, I still have fun with my wife on all of the previous games. Halo was also the only reason I had to buy an Xbox product over any other system.
Unfortunately for all of us, i think there are very few people who are in that particular situation haha. My wife hates halo, she is more of a platformer/JRPGer
Honestly, I’m ok with a downgraded frame rate when playing split screen, I do love 60fps, but don’t remove split screen to keep it there, if they want 60fps on co-op, they will play over xbox live, if they don’t, then they will play it at a lower framerate, on splitscreen!!!
> 2533274829339976;1054:
> > 2535417899972539;1051:
> > > 2533274798578400;1045:
> > > > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
> > >
> > >
> > > That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
> > >
> > > And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
> >
> >
> > Source? I find that incredibly hard to believe
>
>
> Yeah… I don’t know about that one
Believe it. I didn’t just make that number up, i looked at a few articles and shot for the middle. I try to pull things out of my -Yoink- as little as possible I picked a number that is actually less than some estimates.
> 2533274798578400;1057:
> > 2533274829339976;1054:
> > > 2535417899972539;1051:
> > > > 2533274798578400;1045:
> > > > > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > > > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > > > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
> > > >
> > > > And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
> > >
> > >
> > > Source? I find that incredibly hard to believe
> >
> >
> > Yeah… I don’t know about that one
>
>
> Believe it. I didn’t just make that number up, i looked at a few articles and shot for the middle. I try to pull things out of my -Yoink- as little as possible I picked a number that is actually less than some estimates.
>
> Look Here, and Here, and Here (citing the same study) and Here, and Here is an interesting one about how the average age changed from 37 to 30 in one year due to changes in the calculation including things like mobile that used not to count. And check the “Demographics” section of this too.
ya but just because a bunch of old ladies play candy crush doesn’t mean they are “gamers”. Still surprised by the data. I’m 28 and feel like most people my age that I know personally aren’t all that into games. Unless they’re playing with me at a LAN party on 4 player split screen… GRRRRR
> 2533274819051113;1010:
> > 2676022814316908;961:
> > > 2533274819051113;952:
> > > > 2533274836697068;951:
> > > > > 2533274819051113;943:
> > > > > I didn’t say why are people not preordering. I said why are they cancelling preorders. If you’ve already made the decision to buy the game, it is a little radical to go out of your way to cancel a preorder just because splitscreen is not available. It has been only a few days since they said there would be no splitscreen. With any luck we’ll get it back by being vocal. So why go out of your way to cancel? I don’t know I just think it’s strange.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Because actions speak louder than words.
> > > > If for argument sake there was a dramatic cancellation of pre-orders, that directly effects Microsoft’s/343i’s pocket. So you better believe they’ll take notice.
> > > > If it’s just us being vocal on the forums, but we have already shown we’re going to buy the game regardless, they have almost no incentive to care or listen if they already have the money.
> > > >
> > > > It sends a stronger message.
> > >
> > >
> > > And I was really taking you seriously until you said Halo is like CoD because it doesn’t have splitscreen. Grow up please.
> > >
> > > Cheers.
Look, you have your priorities and I have mine.
I was with you until you freaked out and told me to “grow up”? Are you serious? I was respectful to you start to finish. You disagree and want to go another way, be my guest. No one is stopping you. But there’s really no need to get rude because I don’t want to buy a game you want to buy. Who’s being childish in this scenario? I never insulted you or spoke harshly to you sir. I never suggested you should ascribe to my values and follow me in cancelling, did I?
The CoD remark is because they move closer to courting that audience with each game. And of course there was a bit of hyperbole going on. But Halo 4 was choking on features that were desperate to appeal to CoD’s audience. Kill-streaks, kill-cams, care packages with weapons, all are very similar to the CoD model of multiplayer. Adding Aim-Down-Sights in 5 feels an awful lot like the same kind of thing. But I was happy to stick it out through all of those things that I didn’t care for until they took away the mode I use the most; Split-Screen. That is a step too far. I understand that long running series need to move forward with the times. But it feels like Halo has been losing it’s identity one feature at a time.
No one loves the Halo brand more than I do, but every game 343 has made they’ve either taken something I enjoyed about the series away or they’ve made a complete hash of it. I do not owe them my loyalty, no one does. Likewise, they do not owe me any features or modes either. They put a product on sale and I decide if it is worth the money they’re asking to purchase it. With the latest feature they’ve removed, I no longer feel that what they are offering is worth buying. I don’t see why that’s so hard for you to understand. If I went to buy a car, and I wanted a Mustang but the salesperson kept talking about their SUVs, I wouldn’t just say “Okey dokey, you know best, give me the Explorer, please and thank you”. So why would I buy a game that no longer features modes and game-play that I want?
> 2533274953442704;1058:
> > 2533274798578400;1057:
> > > 2533274829339976;1054:
> > > > 2535417899972539;1051:
> > > > > 2533274798578400;1045:
> > > > > > 2535429756019039;785:
> > > > > > > 2533274798578400;783:
> > > > > > > 1) people are totally overreacting to this. there is definitely a big disparity between how much people think they would use split screen campaign coop, and how often it actually happens. I’m sure 343 has some numbers on this from previous games/the surverys they are running and if it was actually that big of a factor, they would have found a way to make it work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) Frankie said its not just a simple matter of turning the framerate down to 30 fps. Turning it down does other things to the engine that -Yoink- up the experience for other reasons.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3) They have walked into a PR firestorm by not getting split-screen working, and they should totally have it in the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What about those who share an Xbox One with a sibling? I use split screen a lot because I play with my brother a lot, 2 of my friends have brothers who use split screen all the time. Do we just leave them in the dust," sorry, if you want to play with your brother who is in the same room as you, you will have to buy another $400 console and $60 game".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That is a perfect example of what I am saying. An n=1 sample size is not representative of the population as a whole, which is what 343 cares about. The average age of the console gamer is 31 and aging. Most people most of the time around that age are not playing split screen on a regular basis.
> > > > >
> > > > > And of course lets not forget what i said in #3, and perhaps should have been more clear about: Despite the fact that most people were never going to use split-screen campaign co-op to begin with, its been a staple of the franchise for so long and is so recognizable that 343 should have found a way to make it work anyway.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Source? I find that incredibly hard to believe
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah… I don’t know about that one
> >
> >
> > Believe it. I didn’t just make that number up, i looked at a few articles and shot for the middle. I try to pull things out of my -Yoink- as little as possible I picked a number that is actually less than some estimates.
> >
> > Look Here, and Here, and Here (citing the same study) and Here, and Here is an interesting one about how the average age changed from 37 to 30 in one year due to changes in the calculation including things like mobile that used not to count. And check the “Demographics” section of this too.
>
>
> ya but just because a bunch of old ladies play candy crush doesn’t mean they are “gamers”. Still surprised by the data. I’m 28 and feel like most people my age that I know personally aren’t all that into games. Unless they’re playing with me at a LAN party on 4 player split screen… GRRRRR
Lol I thought that too! but if you read the Ars Technica article, it shows that the average age of “gamers” actual went down when they started to include handhelds and mobile devices where games like “Candy Crush” are played on. That would suggest that the average console (and PC-master-race) players are actually older than the 30-31 years old cited by the studies. Previous studies that only counted PC and Consoles had the average at at 37.
Granted, people over their mid 20’s (like me, im 29) may not play as much per-capita as younger kids, But that is because they have jobs and other life responsibilities. That older group is still the group that has the disposable income to actually buy the majority of games and consoles who are usually buying these things for the younger crowd. And the younger (read: teenagers) crowd are not intelligent enough consumers/don’t have a “real” concept of money to make not having splitscreen only for co-op make it not worth it to spend someone else’s money.
I picked a number that is actually less than some estimates.