So what do you guys want for infection in the next Halo game? Me, I would like it to be somewhat similar to Hivemind in Halo 4 where you spawn with Assault rifles and have power weapons on the map for you to pick up to increase your chances of surviving. Also I want the infected to have shields so that they won’t be killed too easily (like in Reach) and it would be less frustrating to play as the infected. So what do you think should be included in infection mode in the next Halo?
> Look At this guy’s series of Ideas, I like the sound of them
343 should take notes from that guy. Also I want the lobby size to be larger at 12 or 16 players.
First of all I want them to bring back ALL of the options lost from Reach to H4.
Actually, scratch that.
First I want a fundamental shift in how Infection is scored. Scoring it by kills is utterly asinine. At least on Human side because it massively favors the Humans. Their potential scoring pool is based on how much ammo they have and how good their aim is. On the Zombie/Flood side, the most kills you can have is 7. And that number is split between all the Zombies, which progressively gets harder the more Zombies you turn.
DavidJCobb, one of your own Mods here 343, laid out the best Infection scoring system I’ve seen to date. Implement that. Barring that, go down to the pub/tavern/bar, get drunk, have a good time, come back, and then implement it anyway. Literally any other way you attempt to score players is going to be rife with abuse or just flawed.
IIRC it in a nutshell: Score Humans by how long they survive and score the Infected by how long their kill survived.
Once that is fixed THEN bring back all of the features lost from the transition from Reach to H4.
And for the love of Guilty Spark, do not make the launch gametype variant another Brains clone. Brains being defined as Shotgun/Magnum starts with default Human settings and shieldless Zombies with Swords. Brains is perhaps the most broken Infection variant I’ve played outside of Speed Demons on Avalanche*. Use the current Hivemind gametype in H4 as your launch gametype if you can’t/don’t/won’t do anything else. It’s the best balanced Infection gametype I’ve played to date.
Edit: One more thing! No default maps with random crap thrown into them to make them “look” destitute.
*Reference: Speed Demons on Avalanche was incredibly broken due to there only being three spawn points for Zombies, a Warthog given to Humans, and no shields for said Zombies. Ergo it was incredibly easy to set up a spawn trap with the Warthog pointed at the spawn points and for a player to rack up MASSIVE kills and killstreaks for doing nothing but holding down the trigger on the Warthog’s LAAG while the Zombies do nothing but respawn into the bullets that killed them 0.01 seconds ago.
The idea for flood mode was a good one, but it could’ve been better. 343 could’ve made more maps specifically for the mode. I liked the aesthetics for the flood but it seemed kind of cheep to just have a reskinned energy sword, it even had the same emblem :(, just little things like that would’ve made a better mode. I like hivemind with the power weapons around the map and how it takes two hits to kill the survivors. Just a few tweaks to the current flood mode would make me happy for the next infection mode.
I just want it like regular Flood in 4, and in an unranked playlist. No me gusta el Hivemindo.
first a minor thing
i think the playlist that is named flood should be renamed infection again
the playlist name infection has a nice ring to it and makes more sense especially for players that are new to halo.
but the infected should still be turned into floods ofcourse ( makes alot more sense then turning into a green sprayed spartan).
> IIRC it in a nutshell: Score Humans by how long they survive and score the Infected by how long their kill survived.
genius idea, i think this is by far the best solution for Infection scoring.
a K/D scoring system does not belong in a playlist like infection.
player count should also be increased imo.
also it would be cool if atleast in start of the game the Floods starts with some NPC flood carrier forms or something like that to make it a bit easier for the flood side early game.
My biggest gripe with infection in its current state, is that you cannot edit the infecteds base traits enough. I would love to see the ability to customize their starting weapon, color, shields, and speed like you were able to in Halo 3. It makes for more fun and diverse custom infection game types.
> > Look At this guy’s series of Ideas, I like the sound of them
>
> 343 should take notes from that guy. Also I want the lobby size to be larger at 12 or 16 players.
I third this.
I would rather have Reach’s infection back even if i hated the AA’s
> First I want a fundamental shift in how Infection is scored. Scoring it by kills is utterly asinine.
Maybe they should change the scoring system. I haven’t looked at it but you should be able to change the scoring for Zombies to 5 for each kill in Reach. Meaning Humans need 5 kills for every Zombie kill to keep up. Maybe someone needs to test that out and get feedback to see if it is a good idea, or to keep tweaking it until you find the right amount of scoring.
It’s also why I liked that Safe Haven gametype for Reach. Could only score while in the zone and had to keep moving.
Personally I want 343 to give some forgers like Mr. Pokephile the game a week or so early so that they can build customs maps and gametypes for the playlist. That or 343 could remake past maps like those Hivemind is played on. I enjoyed Halo Reach Alpha Zombies but the maps sucked and I don’t really want to play on anything other than custom made maps which have decent atmospheres and play spaces ect.
A mix of halo reach and halo 4, keep the floods skins and small shields but had the alpha zombie gametype based (shotgun and pistol start). Also have the overwhelming amount of options like in halo reach.
P.S. Can we have some dedicated infection maps just for the game mode? Been asking sense reach if there time for that or add them later on.
> > First I want a fundamental shift in how Infection is scored. Scoring it by kills is utterly asinine.
>
> Maybe they should change the scoring system. I haven’t looked at it but you should be able to change the scoring for Zombies to 5 for each kill in Reach. Meaning Humans need 5 kills for every Zombie kill to keep up. Maybe someone needs to test that out and get feedback to see if it is a good idea, or to keep tweaking it until you find the right amount of scoring.
>
> It’s also why I liked that Safe Haven gametype for Reach. Could only score while in the zone and had to keep moving.
Changing the kill values so that Humans killed are worth five and Zombies are worth one is a bandaid solution.
It’s an easy one to apply, one that probably should have been applied by the community themselves for the gametype rather than have 343 do it. 343 has the power to implement DJC’s scoring system and solve the issue rather than trying to plug a bullet wound with gauze.
And Safe Haven was a good idea on paper but still largely flawed. The Havens were all in death traps. Bungie might as well have decorated the locations with ancient Aztec stonework and poison tipped blow darts. Not to mention that they “encouraged” players to go to the Havens by, IIRC, halving your damage outside of it. None the less due to the settings (Magnums with shieldless zombies and headshots enabled) Havens weren’t required, people ended up camping at the edge of Boardwalk anyway and overall Safe Haven ended up being a lame (in multiple senses of the word) version of Brains.
> Changing the kill values so that Humans killed are worth five and Zombies are worth one is a bandaid solution.
>
> It’s an easy one to apply, one that probably should have been applied by the community themselves for the gametype rather than have 343 do it. 343 has the power to implement DJC’s scoring system and solve the issue rather than trying to plug a bullet wound with gauze.
>
> And Safe Haven was a good idea on paper but still largely flawed. The Havens were all in death traps. Bungie might as well have decorated the locations with ancient Aztec stonework and poison tipped blow darts. Not to mention that they “encouraged” players to go to the Havens by, IIRC, halving your damage outside of it. None the less due to the settings (Magnums with shieldless zombies and headshots enabled) Havens weren’t required, people ended up camping at the edge of Boardwalk anyway and overall Safe Haven ended up being a lame (in multiple senses of the word) version of Brains.
Maybe it is a bandaid solution but I do think it needs looking into. If zombies score more then people won’t get annoyed when they spawn as the zombie for the third time in a row with no chance of victory. At least then they can feel good about beating that one human player with 30 kills.
Maybe we should look at loadouts. Like what would happen if the Magnum was replaced with the AR. Or if we take advantage of the Loadout system and have say, one loadout with just the pistol, one with the AR and one with the shotgun. Players will have to carefully think about which weapon to spawn with.
I do think people should look into the various options available to them. The community have seemed hesitant since Halo 3 do to stuff like this. Get feedback, tweak options, etc. Maybe 343i will implement them into the Infection playlist.
Same thing with Havens. Maybe look at expanding the zone so that the humans have more choice on moving to the next zone. Or removing radar. Stuff like that. You say people just camped but usually that didn’t last long. Only the magnum could be used and if two zombies was close, out of ammo or needed to reload then it was game over. I usually beat those players by 10x the score when I was moving to each zone. I think you also scored a point when you reached the zone but I could be wrong about that.
Methew’s first post. Plus we need maps DESIGNED for infection. I also hope we keep or get more flood model designs and still keep the long lunge range. I like how the flood behave in default flood. I’d like that to stay.
I would like the flood to actually look like flood, not…whatever Halo 4 was. And what the hell happened to the claw with the tentacles coming out of it? I don’t ever remember flood having energy swords as their melee weapons?
> Maybe it is a bandaid solution but I do think it needs looking into.
Really it’s a bandaid solution for bad gametypes. And fixing the gameplay would alleviate the scoring issue as well as the motivation issue with players being the zombie.
Sure, being on par with your opponent because your kills were worth more helps, but it sure doesn’t alleviate the feel of frustration and the Yoink!-this mentality that players get.
> Maybe we should look at loadouts. Like what would happen if the Magnum was replaced with the AR. Or if we take advantage of the Loadout system and have say, one loadout with just the pistol, one with the AR and one with the shotgun. Players will have to carefully think about which weapon to spawn with.
Shotgun should never be a spawning weapon. A pickup from the map, sure, but never a spawning weapon. And if you have a Magnum in the loadouts, then Zombies have to have shields.
At the very least 343 could/should/needs to use Hivemind as the default gametype mode for the next Infection. Doing yet another Brains clone with Shotgun/Magnum starts is an atrocity.
I do think people should look into the various options available to them. The community have seemed hesitant since Halo 3 do to stuff like this. Get feedback, tweak options, etc. Maybe 343i will implement them into the Infection playlist.
> Same thing with Havens. Maybe look at expanding the zone so that the humans have more choice on moving to the next zone. Or removing radar. Stuff like that. You say people just camped but usually that didn’t last long. Only the magnum could be used and if two zombies was close, out of ammo or needed to reload then it was game over. I usually beat those players by 10x the score when I was moving to each zone. I think you also scored a point when you reached the zone but I could be wrong about that.
No, after a while, people just stopped voting for Safe Havens and when it was voted for, half the players drop.
And yes, it’s possible for a pair of Zombies riding one after the other to get a shot at a Human with a Magnum. But possibility doesn’t always pan out to actuality. Vast majority of my Safe Haven games was filled with absolutely brain dead players who individually rushed the Humans. Not to mention the Magnum’s fire rate is still pretty quick, getting two shots off on two different targets doesn’t take that much time.
Not to mention that Boardwalk was the most voted Safe Haven gametype, if not the only map for Safe Havens, and the camping spot was on the second floor, all the way in the back. There was no way to approach them without being forced to cover large amounts of open ground.
Course, that was when they weren’t abusing the plehtora of unintended camping spots that made it all but impossible for Zombies to approach said humans.
That said, I think there’s merit in the Safe Haven’s idea. The whole premise is that the Humans are moving from Point A to Point B for Reason Q. Use your favorite nouns to fill in the blanks. That is, in essence, the only objective in other, popular, zombie gametypes (L4D, L4D2, and even Dead Space 2’s MP.)
Sometimes taking away the feeling of hopelessness is all you need to stop a gametype from being bad (it’s why I’ve always said that spawn protection would help against spawn killers and the Banshee). If the scoring is upped for the zombies then players probably won’t mind spawning as the zombie three times in a row. Really, the only reason I got annoyed spawning as a zombie is because it severly reduced my chances of winning, especially compared to the players who spawn three times as a human. At least beating them by twenty points will make me feel good. That’s why I’m saying we should test this, to see the general reaction of most players.
I don’t mind spawning with a shotgun, it kinda is the point of Infection. But with my loadouts idea you’ll be limited to your choice. Spawning with a shotgun means you can’t pick off Zombies out in the open. Spawning with the pistol means at close range you’ll most likely die, even during a lunge.
Or you could try giving loadout options to zombies, like Spartan Laser or Plasma Launcher only. But then again, infinite ammo would probably make those options unfair.
I’d say the real reason people didn’t vote for Safe Haven is because most players will choose the easier option. Similar to FF Arcade, they’d rather have the option that’s easier for them to deal with rather then the option they have to think in.
But really, we’re talking about the default maps here and not the Forged ones. Which players would also vote for because they know of the broken spots to camp a high K/D ratio. Ever since they were created I’ve always wanted the default maps taken out.
But then again, what we’re really fighting against are players who hold the objective to pad out their stats. Unless you force them they’ll keep doing that.
> Sometimes taking away the feeling of hopelessness is all you need to stop a gametype from being bad (it’s why I’ve always said that spawn protection would help against spawn killers and the Banshee). If the scoring is upped for the zombies then players probably won’t mind spawning as the zombie three times in a row. Really, the only reason I got annoyed spawning as a zombie is because it severly reduced my chances of winning, especially compared to the players who spawn three times as a human. At least beating them by twenty points will make me feel good. That’s why I’m saying we should test this, to see the general reaction of most players.
We can also fix the hopelessness, as well as other issues, by addressing the gameplay options.
Default Flood mode here in H4 would arguably need, say, a 5 to 1 kill ratio between Humans and Zombies.
Hivemind wouldn’t.
> I don’t mind spawning with a shotgun, it kinda is the point of Infection.
It’s typical fare for almost any Zombie themed piece of media, seems almost to go hand in hand with the whole zombie apocalypse.
But for gameplay, it is incredibly frustrating to fight against Humans with Shotguns. You get close, you’re mid-lunge, your so tantalizingly close to victory, and you’re dead. You failed. Why did you die? Did you do something wrong? Nope. It’s just that the Shotgun is a trump card at CQC. It takes massively skill imbalances to overcome it or distraction and flanking maneuvers.
And part of the joy and the wonder of Infection is that there’s a part of the community that plays to make the game toxic. They camp. They camp Sword Base ledge, they camp Red Tunnel on Sword Base, they camp Roof on The Cage. They pick the spot that forces Zombies to come in one, or the fewest number of directions possible, while giving long sightlines to ensure they have to run a gauntlet of bullets.
They don’t play Infection. They play a glorified high graphic fidelity version of Duck Hunt. And the Shotgun only enables them. Camping small rooms in Hivemind is just going to get you killed. It’s not just the shield settings. The lack of a OSK weapon in CQC is what really does it.
And in the end, flanking or distraction maneuvers are effectively impossible options.
> But with my loadouts idea you’ll be limited to your choice. Spawning with a shotgun means you can’t pick off Zombies out in the open. Spawning with the pistol means at close range you’ll most likely die, even during a lunge.
> Or you could try giving loadout options to zombies, like Spartan Laser or Plasma Launcher only. But then again, infinite ammo would probably make those options unfair.
I’ld think that it would make modest improvements, since I see most players picking Shotgun and at the very least you don’t have to deal with a pocket sniper dropping you from a mile away, but why settle for modest improvements on the Brains/SOB gametype when we have Hivemind?
> I’d say the real reason people didn’t vote for Safe Haven is because most players will choose the easier option. Similar to FF Arcade, they’d rather have the option that’s easier for them to deal with rather then the option they have to think in.
There’s challenging but possible, and then there’s so difficult it’s effectively impossible.
Or in this case, so frustrating it’s a why bother.
> But really, we’re talking about the default maps here and not the Forged ones. Which players would also vote for because they know of the broken spots to camp a high K/D ratio. Ever since they were created I’ve always wanted the default maps taken out.
>
> But then again, what we’re really fighting against are players who hold the objective to pad out their stats. Unless you force them they’ll keep doing that.
Which is why we HAVE to stop scoring humans by their kills.