The next Halo - how do you want it?

Community General Discussion
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Hi everyone, this is a topic I initially posted over the Bungie.net forums, but I thought it would be cool to have this discussion here too, especially since 343i are now working on the Halo franchise.

This is a long post, if you only want to know which direction I think the next Halo game should take, go straight to the last two paragraphs.

We all know 343i are most probably working on a new Halo game. Playing on the new Defiant map pack for Reach, thinking of how Certain Affinity made a great job - better than Bungie for the most part - I began to find more hope for non–blam!- to-be Halo games. And also thinking of all Reach’s problems in the campaign, I decided to make a thread to discuss what we’d want to see most in Halo 4 besides playing as the Chief again and continuing the story.

Now, I think one of the main concerns - at leas to me - is for Halo to not take the COD road, as it kind of already did. Halo needs to change. ODST was supposed to play differently, about playing ODSTs and having a relatively fresh gameplay. Yes you are weaker, but that’s basically it. Rookie still incredibly plays similarly to the Chief in Halo CE with the “stamina”. That was a first missed opportunity - besides not giving us incredibly formulatic missions - their “30 seconds of fun”. In fact, I think Bungie’s biggest fault was trying to recreate that particular type of encounters. That gave us mini-missions which are nothing more than stripped down Halo 3 ones, which while quite fun, were still streamlined Halo CE missions. Don’t get me wrong, the game was good, but it can’t compete with Halo CE.

Then came Halo Reach, where they tried to make the ultimate Halo game. But then, we already had FOUR Halo games with practically unchanged gameplay, Bungie NEEDED to up the ante. So they gave us armor abilities and space combat, both which did nothing more than being a bitter tease to the game’s potential. The armor abilities changed nothing on the fundamentals of the gameplay. It did spice up some campaign moments, but just looking at the jet-pack platformer bit of Exodus, and it’s clear it was way too short. When you start to get a hang of it and finding the encounters fun, it over already. What Bungie needed to do, was doing like any good game when you introduce a new ability; let us get a hang of it, and then make things increasingly more challenging. You should’ve have jet-packed around more, into more unique level bits.

And comes another of the great problems of Reach, the level design. Instead of making the ultimate Halo, Bungie just made an extremely polished Halo experience with bits of new things, the level design barely doing anything new. Where was the real open ended spaces with different objectives to work on, with different roads to take? You were still taken by the hand. So we keep going through bits we’ve already been through, having roughly the same experience throughout the game. Space combat was fun, but was too short, tried nothing special and wasn’t much more than your usual Halo encounter in space. Take shields off, finish with a headshot and when taking too many hits, hide a bit and then come back. It was the same thing as ground combat or almost. Then you had inside the ship with some low-grav, but it was quite limited and they tried nothing with it. The New Alexandria mission was probably the best thing, but the moment you got off the Falcon it was standard Halo mission fare.

We all like the Halo gameplay, but Bungie’s problem was that they tried too much to make Halo gameplay, rather than make good and interesting gameplay. Play Halo CE, play Halo 2 and then play 3, ODST and Reach. Look how the Halo gameplay got standardized, formulated over time, particularly since 3 where they seemed to have found “the way” to make Halo games. Halo 3’s game design could’ve been better, but it was still a bit different than Halo CE’s and 2’s, but it’s with ODST and Reach where they tried nothing to stand out of the now very defined norm.

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As much as I like the Halo gameplay, 343 need to at the very least change the way missions are designed almost completely. In fact, I think they also need to change the gameplay. Keep the fundementals - health with shields - but make it play differently. We need some fresh air, or the games will still get increasingly stale, get less good than the last. So encounters have to play differently, levels should be designed differently and FAR, from the “corridor, semi-open space, corridor, semi-open space” that has plagued the Halo series since 3.

And in a way, I think it needs to get back a bit to how Halo CE did some things. Bring back alien worlds - I didn’t mind having no alien world, but it would be fun for Halo 4 to go back to some things which helped the game be so good in the first place - bring back LONG missions. Another thing that plagued Reach was how the pacing was all over the place. You were getting into the game, into the environment where you were thrown in, getting immersed and the next moment, you get thrown off somewhere else. In other words, it played too much like a movie. It was as irritating an problematic to the game as the first 30 minutes of The Phantom Menace.

And which makes me think, Halo CE had superior level design to the extremely formulatic one of Reach. Remember The Pillar of Autumn, near the end, you could walk around the corridors, go through shafts, it left space for different approaches despite that part to be brief. Think of Halo, where you were driving in a warthog choosing between 3 places to rescue marines. The Silent Cartographer, which consisted of one island you could drive around getting to one place or the other doing objectives - that’s partly what I was talking about when I told of how Halo needs big open spaces with different objectives to do. Or Assault on the Control Room, with the big canyon and bridges that were over it. The level design was very well done here, it intertwined, it made the whole mission, environment feel connected. You could also jump a little segment if you were fast enough to steal a banshee. In the last Halo games, you feel too much as if you always have to go forward, you never really settle a bit somewhere or feel like going through an important place.

Ideally the next Halo game should have semi-sandbox - ie. Far Cry 2 - level design. I said semi, each missions should consist of a relatively big open area, one where you can go from point A to point B in various ways, some more dangerous than others, some longer, shorter, or sometimes there’s not much of a difference. Maybe you wouldn’t have access to everywhere from the get go, maybe you need to do some things in order to unlock an area. And I think there could be some great dynamic gameplay here. Say you need to go to a certain place; maybe you can take the very long road with nothing special to do, or maybe there’s this road with plenty of places you need to unlock, or that one where you have to go over the cliffs, or by the river with a switch or two. Maybe those paths can intertwine, and go from one to the other.

You could also carry items, keycards and such, explosives. They should redefine the Halo gameplay while still making it feel like Halo. I think 343 should also give more subtleties to the gameplay, make the stealth option viable. Make it possible to have Ghost Recon-like encounters where you can get pinned down. So in other words, 343 should make a big change in gameplay, try to do something to bring back life into Halo. Not only that, but make a game that is also different from an FPS point of view. The industry is way too much plagued by copy-cats and developers who don’t bother changing things up a bit. I always was more kind to Halo because of the universe and story, but I think Halo has gone past the point where it can stay a good series only by adding to it.

What about you guys?

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And here is a post by orphan on the same thread:

"A long campaign with levels of varying style and length, with fresh takes on objectives and missions. After Halo:CE, Halo felt like it became “GO BLOW UP THAT HUGE THING. IT’S BAD. BLOW UP THIS SMALLER THING SO WE CAN BRING IN OUR BIG THINGS AND BLOW THEM UP.” A more tactical feel would feel good, such as “Create a disturbance on one end of the field, and we’ll swoop in on the other. Tactically take down these shield generators while we draw them away, use their own huge–Yoink- gun against them, and then arm a bomb and escape.”

New takes on levels would also be great, instead of just changing the basic objective of “blow up the bad things that hinder our ability to blow up other bad things”. For example, have we ever had a Halo mission where we pilot a dropship, covering fleeing friendly troops as enemies bear down upon them in the middle of an epic battle? I don’t think so. We’ve always been those fleeing troops.
Imagine a mission where you are in a triad of Frigates, which are shot down. The Frigate expels all HEVs and Pelicans with troops on board, but you’re stuck inside. Once you crash, you must help gather up the scattered forces and destroy any vital information on the ship, extract supplies, and possibly blow it up for the hell of it, all while under fire. Then, rendezvous with the other two Frigates, possibly helping them out. Maybe one of their bombs malfunctioned, so you have to bring in a new one and detonate it yourself. Then, you must escape the Covenant -Yoinks!- raining hell down upon you from a Corvette or something. Add in new possibilites and actions, such as manning a turret on the side of a crashed Frigate and keeping Covenant dropships from getting too close while your friendly troops escape or extract materials from the ship. It’d be slightly new, but doesn’t entirely change it away from Halo.

I got sorta bored from typing this, that happens a lot. I was ready to write up a huge post, but eh.

Developed characters with enticing and believable backgrounds would be cool too - maybe a soldier who had to kill his parents who were ONI/UNSC officers ala Cole Protocol, or a grizzled war hero who lost his brother and has watched dozens of worlds burn - maybe a jealous ODST who turns against his team after being constantly outshined by their Spartan III leader or something."

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Halo 3 style gameplay with fall damage, health, armor abilities and bloom(though not as much as in Reach).

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The long awaited return of Dual Wield.

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> The long awaited return of Dual Wield.

Ah hell no, the only thing dual wielding did was make a bunch of weapons useless on their own, not to mention it was superfluous. I love that you can actually kill things with the Plasma weapons again.

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Surprise me. I’ll tell ya if I like it or not when it’s over :wink:

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Honestly, I don’t care what they do, just make it a good Halo game. =D

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Also another point is that part of the game must focus on arby. We only got a taste of it in halo 2, and that was it.

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For a start, let’s have a semi-sandbox Campaign. Missions should have multiple paths, each of which is different. For example, you could go down a gully and take a Hog, or go up to a UNSC outpost and grab a Falcon, or take a lift up to the top of a mountain, snipe out a Covenant outpost and fly a Banshee down to support a UNSC advance.

Also, let’s have some original gameplay. Sections like the jet-packing in Exodus and the MAC cannon were good, but too few and far between. We also lacked some of the best moments Halo can offer, such as epic Hog runs, and I’ve yet to see a decent boss battle in any Halo game.

Add in more varied locations, a proper overarching storyline, and great characters. Voila, you’ve got a great Halo game.

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> For a start, let’s have a semi-sandbox Campaign. Missions should have multiple paths, each of which is different. For example, you could go down a gully and take a Hog, or go up to a UNSC outpost and grab a Falcon, or take a lift up to the top of a mountain, snipe out a Covenant outpost and fly a Banshee down to support a UNSC advance.
>
> Also, let’s have some original gameplay. Sections like the jet-packing in Exodus and the MAC cannon were good, but too few and far between. We also lacked some of the best moments Halo can offer, such as epic Hog runs, and I’ve yet to see a decent boss battle in any Halo game.
>
> Add in more varied locations, a proper overarching storyline, and great characters. Voila, you’ve got a great Halo game.

I agree about multiple paths, although it shouldn’t feel like there is path A, B and C, but more open where paths can intertwine and all, ie. it shouldn’t feel like there is different particular paths, but it should feel like your the one making them. Not only the original gameplay section in Reach were too few and far between, but they were quite short and more work could’ve been put into them the gameplay would actually feel really different instead of just a bit more varied and fresh.

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No Boss battles :wink:

At least none like Halo2 because as he said, he’s never had a good boss battle in Halo :smiley:

Actually I take that back. The Reactor Room in CE. That’s a good type of boss battle for Halo. Multiple targets that must be destroyed to take down the larger. It’s about disassembling the bigger objective piece by piece.

The Scarab encounters from Halo3 and ODST are close enough in theory but need some je ne sais quoi.

For me, a boss encounter in Halo are the heavily fortified firefights. Getting to the Banshees on Final Run on tTB in CE. On Legendary, that is quite the encounter. Invisible Elites that come in and attack you while you try to ping the larger crowd off from a distance. The Shade emplacements and Hunters… and then there’s the Elites you can see.

Belly of the Beast, that’s a nice one. A very CQB, high enemy density encounter.

Heck, Halo3’s Brute Chieftains and their subordinates are nice mini-bosses on the Covenant. The ending of the Ark need something more but it’s a mini-boss for me.

As long as we don’t have the Chief pounding on a frail Prophet that should just have its neck snapped the moment we boarded his chair. 343’s death sucked :wink: I like CE’s Drones better. They at least got my attention. And as far as the Heretic or Tartarus… NOOOOOO :smiley:

Pure bullet sponges are no fun for me. Requiring some tactical and strategic play is a minimum. The end of ONI was very monotonous and had little of either. The MAC was ok but too simple by pattern. WC and LNoS had great encounters both mini and end. The Locator was underused, but it is fun giving it to a trooper on Heroic.

Oh the Library. I love that level. Though I agree in retrospect, the Forerunners would have such a facility looking a bit more elaborate (but not much), I thoroughly enjoyed the encounters all the way through. Aesthically it may not have been great, but geometrically it was awesome.

Ironic, the most length in a Halo game came from one that recycles the most architecture, yet there are so many that want claim to want diversity over length, without accepting the change in terrain as diversity. I love CE’s feel of there and back again. he he he. Reach did a good job of doing it again. For me, seeing the effect of change has more impact than diversity of view alone.

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A mix of Halo 1,2,3, ODST and a weeny bit o’ WARS.

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With a BR.

If the CE remake goes ahead that will be three Halo titles in a row without the fabled Battle Rifle.

Not cool.

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  • Dedicated servers! :wink:
    This is a must, we’ve all seen that p2p and “host” issues can ruin any game. Homefront got it, Gears 3 will have it, Section 8: Prejudice will have it (live arcade). It allows 32+ players to play, with multiple vehicles and bots, without any lag :smiley:

  • 32 players, or at least 24. 16 is feeling way to little these days, 32 is teh new standard or 64 probably next gen (if not 128 -> need dedicated servers)

  • Allow vehicular gameplay, let us have maps like Sand Trap, Valhalla, even Avalanche where we may use and enjoy the vehicles in Halo. Breakpoint/paradiso/Haemorrhage is pretty worthless for vehicles sadly, small and campy :frowning:

  • Balance the weapons, please!
    Every Halo has had a “noob weapon”, a jack of all trades. Either the pistol (Ce) the BR (2,3) or the DMR (Reach) that is perfect for every situation. Great for long distance, good at close, no one will ever use anything else unless it’s another power weapon

  • Nerf the sniper
    Ok, Halo Reach is a bit like CoD, camp + snipe = win. The sniper should fire slower, have more sway, deal less damage (unless HS), or have less ammo. Right now a sniper is 10+ free kills even in the hands of a newbie, not balanced at all :frowning:

  • Dedicated anti-vehicle weapons.
    We had missile pod, plasma pistol, rocket launcher and brute shot for a reason in Halo 3. In Reach, you either use your super-DMR and shread any vehicle, or a sniper (better then laser imo). They got plenty of ammo and work for everything else too, not balanced and disables vehicular gameplay at all :frowning:

  • Firefight online, like it should be :slight_smile:
    All since ODST we wanted to play Firefight online, with other players, but we can’t. In reach we get a watered down 30 minutes super-easy version, it’s pretty boring. Firefight arcade is fun though, but we need an regular unlimited Firefight classic (no max time) with varied waves, like in ODST.

  • Dedicated separate maps for campaign and online.
    Reusing maps just don’t work, nuff said.

  • Full split-screen support
    Halo has always been a social game, and split-screen is crucial. In Reach you can play a few playlists in split screen, and almost none if you have 3-4 players. Not to mention you get no post-game commendation screen/stats if you play splitscreen, just fade to black and then lobby :frowning:

  • Epic battles in campaign!
    We like Halo, we like big maps and battles, Halo is a series about wars, not corridor sneaking like in Reach with a max of 10 enemies and 2 vehicles. We want Scarab battles like in Halo 3, but bigger if possible. Let us be a part of teh fight, not just a bye-stander :wink:

  • Warthog Race at the end!
    Well, since Halo 1 it’s more or less a tradition to race with some kind of vehicle (warthog/ghost/mongoose) at teh end of the game, even ODST offered it but not Reach :frowning:

  • Hidden skulls
    The journals were nice and interesting enough, but the skulls were a timeless classic and is so much Halo. Always possible to hide both, but skulls are more interesting and fun to hutn imo ^^

  • Good vehicle physics
    Ok, The warthog in Reach is a bad joke when it comes to physics, it’s piratically lighter then a mongoose/ghosts since it flips easier, it got greased wheels and is annoying and boring to drive, no grip, not to mention that a spartan actually does weight less then a full W-hog, since a grenade makes the hog flip higher fully loaded then one single spartan standing on the ground, wtf?

  • More maps like Defiant mappack :smiley:
    The maps of Reach ain’t nothing we’ll see on the “remake” list, unless we mention the defiant mappack, it’s sop much better. The maps follow cannon and tell a story (genius!) and they play good too, even a Firefight map with vehicles, tell Certain Affinity they rock big time! :slight_smile:

  • Lower killtimes and faster gameplay
    Halo was never “fast”, after playing UT3 it feelt pretty slow, but Reach took it down another notch. Please bring back the naturual speed and flow of the previous Halos, we want to be able to move at a decent speed even at ground, we play as spartans after all. Same with killtimes, I must say it’s funnier to play if you die/respawn faster, since you get a chance to clear out the enemies from say a base. The slow killtimes in Reach has encouraged camping even more, and tactics like flanking even less :confused:

  • AAs/Equipement
    Personally, I think AAs either should be left in Crysis (suit abilities) or implemented more like they were in crysis. You can use all, but they drain your energy and you can specify which ones to improve. Still, cloaking is a horrible AA (all camping, both games). In Crysis you run decently fast but sprint still adds a nice extra, in Reach you’re painfully slow without sprint. In crysis, armor makes you take an extra hit or two, in Reach armor lock freezes the game for 3-5 seconds, etc. I preferred equipment, less abused and better gameplay :slight_smile:

Keep up teh good work as you (and CA) did with Defiant Mappack, and listen to teh fans on your forums. Sure, some are loud mouthed, and misbehave, but we all just want a as good game as possible and sometimes people speak straight from the heart.
Try to understand what people mean and why they want it so much before you ban, and please do answer, if just a little, in the threads. It’s worth a word to us players if you show you listen, even if it’s just a “no, we don’t think that would work/add anything good”.
Cheers and the best of luck! :smiley:

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Some good posts here. Decided to bum this up considering the announcement of Halo 4. And I stand by what I said, hopefully 343 will understand what made Halo good in the first place, but also what kinda made it a regressive series. Constantly streamlining a particular formula, looking at what to do, rather than what you want out of a mission\sequence. Please, no more linear levels and rehashing of the same encounters all over again. Please, dynamic objectives, optional and secondary ones too, please different ways to attend an objective. Don’t make this Halo 1.5, 3.5 or Reach 2, make it truly an Halo 4. This is a new trilogy, so we should truly see a step up, bringing new elements, but without going against what is Halo. I think armor abilities were a great error (at least in MP), and I hope 343 can see this. Make truly satisfying missions, massive ones. It’s kinda abnormal that Halo CE is still the one that has the biggest missions, except maybe for one or two Halo 3 mission, but it feels like each subsequent game, while staying good, got less good over time, as the missions got more and more streamlined for the COD crowd. Please, give us big, expansive environments again.

Halo Reach felt like playing a movie (Halo 3 too, but less so even if it felt way more Hollywood-y, which is bad), so give us that game feeling again, make us feel like in there exploring, not get thrown out of our experience every once in a while so you “don’t get bored” or something, Reach’s pace was truly all over the place and not satisfying. Lastly, give us back a real Halo campaign game. Since… Halo 3, it seems the campaign was made as an afterthought, rather than the main meal. I guess a lot of people didn’t like Halo 2’s campaign and the mp definitely got a lot of attention, but I still think it was a great campaign, a bit linear yes, but still loads of different environments, a good story, and it missed 3 missions anyway, missions I’d love 343 to make (hopefully there’s some info about how they were supposed to go and all) and put then in a remastered Halo 2.

Hopefully 343 won’t take things for granted and try to outdo themselves over the course of the new trilogy, rather than settling with a formula they think can’t be improved, which is probably Bungie’s greatest error - and most developers’ greatest error nowadays too.

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After some reading, now I say make Halo4 as though James Cameron and Micheal Bay were competing for the universe’s biggest bang since the original. Is that too much? :slight_smile:

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I would like to see some very large-scale battles.