The Never Ending Ranking System Topic

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

I would love some feed back from all types of HALO players about what type/types of Ranking system HALO 5 should use

In past games we have seen

HALO 2 = ELO

HALO 3 = 1-50

Reach = Arena

Halo 4 = CSR

For me something very smiler to HALO 3s
-RANKED 1-50 system
-SOCIAL xp and exp per playlist system

those are the best in my mind for all types of players

Would you like a team based or individual Ranking ?
Would you like these Ranks visible in game ?

BEST SO FAR IN MY MIND

> *EXP for Ranking up (ONLY EARNED IN MM) = Just like how Halo 3 had it you get 1xp for each win = A long time from bottom rank to the top rank (No skill required just # of games Won)
> *XP per playlist (ONLY EARNED IN MM) = Keeps people coming back for (INSERT RANK HERE)In that playlist again just like HALO 3
> *CR/SR/Credits (EARNED IN ALL GAME MODES) for unlocking = Armor - Visors - Weapon Skins - emblems - Stances - weapons if load outs come back - You could earn these from kills in MM/campaign/Spartan Ops - flag caps - assets - basically medals

List a few ideas / i will try and update as time goes on.

  1. The Importance of Proper Ranked Matchmaking by Vetoed

> > IMPORTANT NOTE
> > This thread’s title once used to be “Proper Ranked Matchmaking > New Features”. However, due to some people misunderstanding the point I wanted to make (and not reading the OP), I have changed it. Please do keep this in mind whilst reading the first part. Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Also, there’s a TL;DR skipping the first part and that highlights the main components of what I consider “required” for “proper” Ranked Matchmaking (scroll down until red text). I’d appreciate it if you read the whole thing though, it’s not that long. Also, be sure to leave a post or thank to show support.
>
> Hello friends.
>
> First off, I must say that I am a very competitive player at heart. But I think a lot of people will be able to relate to this post, whether competitive or casual.
>
> It seems that a lot of you have been very stressed and anxious about some of the new features that were talked about, announced or confirmed. I can’t provide a link for those who don’t know, but please do look around if you care to learn more.
>
> I can’t claim that I don’t feel uneasy about some features announced. I am not going to list them and explain what would suit my personal tastes and needs, even though I would like to believe that it would be the ideal thing to do, based on the experience I have with Halo. And for a few minutes, I ask of you to do the same. We can care about the new features once we TRY them. From there, 343 will use our feedback to improve them. It’s not worth complaining BEFORE that, though. The thing is, there won’t be two opportunities to implement a proper Ranked Matchmaking post-release without a massive update, hence the importance of voicing our concerns right now. So think of this thread as a urgent, desperation call from me, and many Matchmaking players that needs to reach 343’s ears as soon as possible. I hope you, the reader, will join in voicing it.
>
> I have played every Halo game. Each one of them has its ups and downs. None is perfect. I don’t either expect Halo 5 to be. Whether it’s in terms of gameplay, mechanics, or features. But as a Matchmaking player, and a very experienced Halo player (and with the drastic change that Reach was from the usual Halo experience) I have found that I can adapt to most new features that developers decide to bring the to table. I tend not to care until the hands-on / release.
>
> Therefore, regardless of what is announced between now and the release day of Halo 4, I will keep faith and purchase the game. Not as a blind fan, but as a supporter of those who keep my favorite series alive, and as a competitive and skilled player who won’t lose to a “battle” against the features of the game. I will attempt to adapt, because I love Halo. This said, I intend to at least give them a chance to impress.
>
> But 343, what I am about to request you not to leave out, is the most important thing for Matchmaking players in general. Not just competitive ones, but for casual ones as well. The posts in this thread will confirm these words.
>
> Kind of TL;DR starts here
>
> That is, proper RANKED hoppers in Matchmaking.
>
> “Proper” you ask?
>
> - It should appeal to all kinds of players (FFA, 2v2, 4v4, BTB, MLG, that is ALL).
>
> - It needs to be more than a single playlist.
>
> - It should be faithful to the original design of the game (not over-customized, alienating the default players), yet remain very balanced and competitive to be a proper measure of skill.
>
> - The ranks don’t have to be the “1-50 or 100 system”, (even though it would be GREAT for a lot of players) but it HAS to be simple, clear, visible or “reflected” on the player’s nameplate OR global progression in some manner, at all times when connected to Xbox LIVE. That was the biggest downfall of the Arena; no incentive to get high ranks and show them off, as the Divisions were hidden in the depths of the complex Service Record.
>
> - It has to allow players to get FAIR matches with and against people of SIMILAR SKILL, so that even the less competitive players can have a good time and not get spawn-killed over and over by a full team of pros.
>
> - It needs to have a bottom and ceiling in terms of ranking. What this means is that a player’s ranking shouldn’t grow forever even though they keep progressing. It should become limited or “maxed out” to still allow them to find matches, and give players an reachable goal.
>
> - It should be almost unexploitable, yet limit grieving (betrayal for weapons and such). Therefore, it can’t be too stat-oriented, unless there is a high incentive on teamwork (assists, etc).
>
> - It should have reasonable search times! Another one of the Arena’s downfall. Perhaps widen the skill gap for match-ups if population becomes VERY LOW.
>
> - Be creative, <mark>ask us</mark> if needed!
>
> Please, 343. Do not overlook this. I believe you will suceed in making a great game, faithful to the Halo experience, but with your own touch. But this, (having proper Ranked hoppers) is what will keep the game alive and strong in numbers for a long time to come online, like Halo 3 was, and Reach when Arena was good.
>
> Thank you for reading.

Link to old post

TON of Stuff here

#2

Halo 3’s. All aspects of it. Done.

#3

In Halo 5 the ranks HAVE to be visible in game, making them only available on Waypoint is just a terrible idea.
I’d prefer to have the rating system simply based off of win/loss and not individual performance since people on the team playing different roles could end up with lower rankings.
As far as how the system should work, I’m split between a traditional 1-50 or divisional/seasonal one like in SC.
Going with 1-50 would be the safe route but I think if they could pull off a good divisional system then it would work out much better then 1-50 over the long run.

#4

> In Halo 5 the ranks HAVE to be visible in game, making them only available on Waypoint is just a terrible idea.
> I’d prefer to have the rating system simply based off of win/loss and not individual performance since people on the team playing different roles could end up with lower rankings.
> As far as how the system should work, I’m split between a traditional 1-50 or divisional/seasonal one like in SC.
> Going with 1-50 would be the safe route but I think if they could pull off a good divisional system then it would work out much better then 1-50 over the long run.

I sort of agree with this and disagree.

Making the ranks restricted to Halo waypoint sort of forces players to log in and see whats going on with the Halo Community. Such as if a certain someone makes a thread about Noble 6 there could be people who were originally here to look at their ranks but now see this and think. Hmm, get interested and interact more with the community even if it was that one moment of interaction it could still define a moment in a major decisions that 343i would make. But for people who are already on the waypoint alot it shouldn’t phase too much as well but i would rather have my level in the game rather than having to go to the waypoint to see it.

Also ranked playlist should give ranks like in Halo 2 while social more like Reach style. So we have Feel Good ranks that give those who have played along time things and Pro ranks that give the best superior things than that of the Feel Good ranks. The split is a perfect means to satisfy more than half of the population.

#5

> Halo 3’s. All aspects of it. Done.

This, but the progression/EXP side of it needs to be stretched out a bit more and filled in with more ranks.

#6

I would like a ranking system that’s both team based, and individual based, as well as the ability to hide ranking in games based on play lists, also give the option to hide ones rank.

#7

> Would you like a team based or individual Ranking ?

This is a tricky one. On the one side ranks are assigned to individuals, and they are supposed to be a representation of the skill level of the individual player. A win/ loss system may not always truly correlate with this. You can play woefully and often still rank up. Just as long as your team wins.

But on the other side of the equation, if you have an individual ranking system, it can encourage selfish play. With an individual system you are actively pitching everyone up against each other, irrespective of the teams. You need to be one of the top 2 MVPs. That’s your goal. The team performance doesn’t matter. Who cares who looses. Who cares if I steal kills from my team mates. This is not something we want a ranking system to do.

So… Can I say both. Have a system that both calculates individual performance and W/L all in one system. Have a system that only really promotes the players that both won and played well at the same time, and only demotes players who both lost and played poorly. So if you played well but still lose, you are not punished, your rank progression stays about exactly the same. Same goes when you win but suck while going it. Your rank doesn’t move.

In regards to the individual side we can’t have another pure progression system like CSR. People should be awarded for playing well, not just for getting in the action more often. Obviously you shouldn’t reward camping so it needs be to a degree processional but you can’t ignore deaths. So base it mainly on kill spread not k/d ratio.

Assists and objective points need to also play a big factor… Rank differences between players also need to have a large effect…

I also think in regards to the W/L it should differentiate between land slides and close games. If you can 5-0 a team at CTF in 3mins you should be hugely rewarded for it. Conversely if you loose a Slayer game 49-50 W/L shouldn’t play that big of a factor.

The ideal ranking system I think is pretty complicated. I don’t envy the Mathematical wizard who has to figure this stuff out.

#8

There should be a exp ranking system like Reach and 4 for those who don’t like multiplayer and want to unlock armour and stuff along with a Halo 3 like system

#9

> There should be a exp ranking system like Reach and 4 for those who don’t like multiplayer and want to unlock armour and stuff along with a Halo 3 like system

Absolutely. You need xp ranking, even if only in the interest of awarding player customisation options. Armour, vissor colours, weapon skins, stances… For what ever reason it is more appealing and engaging for many people to have this kind of stuff rewarded gradually as opposed to gifted all at once. And it works as a great player incentive.

It’s so shallow… but I mean Competitive ranking is no different.

But I think it is important to actually include a visible Competitive Skill Ranking system come Halo 5. A long side an xp rank.

#10

> > There should be a exp ranking system like Reach and 4 for those who don’t like multiplayer and want to unlock armour and stuff along with a Halo 3 like system
>
> Absolutely. You need xp ranking, even if only in the interest of awarding player customisation options. Armour, vissor colours, weapon skins, stances… For what ever reason it is more appealing and engaging for many people to have this kind of stuff rewarded gradually as opposed to gifted all at once. And it works as a great player incentive.
>
> It’s so shallow… but I mean Competitive ranking is no different.
>
> But I think it is important to actually include a visible Competitive Skill Ranking system come Halo 5. A long side an xp rank.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts

#11

> > Halo 3’s. All aspects of it. Done.
>
> This, but the progression/EXP side of it needs to be stretched out a bit more and filled in with more ranks.

Exactly. Mix 3 and Reach.

#12

> > Would you like a team based or individual Ranking ?
>
> This is a tricky one. On the one side ranks are assigned to individuals, and they are supposed to be a representation of the skill level of the individual player. A win/ loss system may not always truly correlate with this. You can play woefully and often still rank up. Just as long as your team wins.
>
> But on the other side of the equation, if you have an individual ranking system, it can encourage selfish play. With an individual system you are actively pitching everyone up against each other, irrespective of the teams. You need to be one of the top 2 MVPs. That’s your goal. The team performance doesn’t matter. Who cares who looses. Who cares if I steal kills from my team mates. This is not something we want a ranking system to do.
>
> So… Can I say both. Have a system that both calculates individual performance and W/L all in one system. Have a system that only really promotes the players that both won and played well at the same time, and only demotes players who both lost and played poorly. So if you played well but still lose, you are not punished, your rank progression stays about exactly the same. Same goes when you win but suck while going it. Your rank doesn’t move.
>
> In regards to the individual side we can’t have another pure progression system like CSR. People should be awarded for playing well, not just for getting in the action more often. Obviously you shouldn’t reward camping so it needs be to a degree processional but you can’t ignore deaths. So base it mainly on kill spread not k/d ratio.
>
> Assists and objective points need to also play a big factor… Rank differences between players also need to have a large effect…
>
> I also think in regards to the W/L it should differentiate between land slides and close games. If you can 5-0 a team at CTF in 3mins you should be hugely rewarded for it. Conversely if you loose a Slayer game 49-50 W/L shouldn’t play that big of a factor.
>
> The ideal ranking system I think is pretty complicated. I don’t envy the Mathematical wizard who has to figure this stuff out.

If 343 could perfect this setup, Halo 5’s ranking system would completely blow 1-50 out of the water.

#13

The best ranking system that has been in any Halo game is Halo 2, hands down.

It was forever changing and if a player got boosted and played on the account without doing we’ll he/she dropped ranks quickly. Also, the game should always be built like a bell curve when it comes to ranks.

Halo 3 was way to easy to reach level 50 and there is no reason for this. Halo 3 also had 50s that were reached in less than 40 games, I remember making one is 27 games. Having so many 50s generated horrible gameplay even with all 50s because the top ranking was still far from balanced or even.

Halo 2, hands down generated back to back to back competitive games based of rank. If you can’t surpass a 20, that’s where you should fall. Fine, have another rank besides that if you want to see how much you play, but a rank needs to be WHERE YOU ARE IN THE POPULATION.

I’m beyond bored in Halo 4 because you have no idea who’s going to be in your game.

I could play as a random in Halo 2 and the games were generally evenly matched and well played. Only a small % should reach the max level if the system is working correctly and balanced.

#14

4’s was a complete gail, no doubt about it.

#15

> Halo 3’s. All aspects of it. Done.

Halo 3 had both a Ranked and Social Ranking system with xp and exp per playlist for both styles of players .

Agreed and I believe there are some very simple ways to fix the account boosting/ will go into that later

#16

I’m currently trying to work on a ranking system that isn’t overly complex but creates a fair and balanced way of not only ranking up as a team, but as an individual of that team.

Math is not my forte however and instead of a formula i ended up with a flowchart.

Also, hopefully with the switch to real life currency and Microsofts new ‘reputation’ system or whatever, we should see less boosting/buying accounts.

#17

For actual Ranking of the player: ELO. Just make sure it is set that if you were to end up fighting a very low ranked opponent somehow(and it will happen), you don’t rank down after you win.

For unlocking looks, progression ranks and commendations.

As a Side-Note, I’d like to not see achievements that are similar to the DLC-specific achievements, especially if we are not going to see them often, and that that would require a specific situation that it would need to be boosted to get it done. Get 4 kills with a rocket launcher is more plausible, and natural, than assasinating a ball carrier 5 meters from a goal.

#18

> In Halo 5 the ranks HAVE to be visible in game, making them only available on Waypoint is just a terrible idea.
> I’d prefer to have the rating system simply based off of win/loss and not individual performance since people on the team playing different roles could end up with lower rankings.
> As far as how the system should work, I’m split between a traditional 1-50 or divisional/seasonal one like in SC.
> Going with 1-50 would be the safe route but I think if they could pull off a good divisional system then it would work out much better then 1-50 over the long run.

For me the key points to a great Ranking system are

Needs to be visible in game
Needs to be team based of W/L so people care about winning

Needs to be more then 1 playlist maybe a good amount so everyone can be happy

Should match part size vs part size

I will add more on my next brake :slight_smile: I’m working really hard by the way

#19

Its called Team Slayer so it has to be Team based. Nothing more to say.

I would love Halo 3s 1-50 and Halo 4s commendations. (If they fix it a bit, PP for example)

#20

updated op with some info you might like