Alright, my first post on here and I couldn’t find a similar topic, but there is something I think needs to make a return in H5, that being the shared shield/health mechanic with your vehicle. To those of you who don’t know, in Halo 2 and 3, vehicles would never explode unless your Shield itself reached 0. Vehicles themselves had health, but while occupying the vehicle it always shared your health, even while in flames. This changed in Reach and continued in H4. In Reach and H4, vehicles had an independent health system where, even if you had half shields, if the vehicles health hit 0, it exploded and you died. The problem with this is vehicle play is completely dumbed down, making it much easier to take down enemy-occupied vehicles and ultimately making vehicles, especially in big team, seem pointless due to being destroyed much faster and easier. What do you guys think?
I personally would say neither. The first doesn’t make a lot of sense, and the second, as you said, leads to premature destruction. Personally, I’d give vehicles an increased bullet resistance, or some sort of armour meter that has to be depleted before small arms can damage the actual vehicle’s health.
I definitely agree - vehicles were still manageable in reach but due to PP and sticky spawns in 4 were almost useless except tanks / mantis
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> I personally would say neither. The first doesn’t make a lot of sense, and the second, as you said, leads to premature destruction. Personally, I’d give vehicles an increased bullet resistance, or some sort of armour meter that has to be depleted before small arms can damage the actual vehicle’s health.
That. Having the vehicle share your health seems odd. It means that if I get in a nearly broken vehicle in full health, the vehicle will look almost destroyed, but it will be difficult to destroy. The vehicles should have its own health system, like in any other game, but showing that they are military vehicles being more resistent to bullets.
> 2533274824799445;1:
> Alright, my first post on here and I couldn’t find a similar topic, but there is something I think needs to make a return in H5, that being the shared shield/health mechanic with your vehicle. To those of you who don’t know, in Halo 2 and 3, vehicles would never explode unless your Shield itself reached 0. Vehicles themselves had health, but while occupying the vehicle it always shared your health, even while in flames. This changed in Reach and continued in H4. In Reach and H4, vehicles had an independent health system where, even if you had half shields, if the vehicles health hit 0, it exploded and you died. The problem with this is vehicle play is completely dumbed down, making it much easier to take down enemy-occupied vehicles and ultimately making vehicles, especially in big team, seem pointless due to being destroyed much faster and easier. What do you guys think?
we shall not mention halo 4 as it was a poor system. i’d rather the reach system as i quite enjoy the glass cannon aspect, it allows for a quick, high damage vehicle at the cost of durability. Despite what people say i’d say that the skill difference between your average joe and the best players in the banshee, falcon and wraith were tremendous, a skill gap only rivaled by the H3 warthog and chopper imo.
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> I definitely agree - vehicles were still manageable in reach but due to PP and sticky spawns in 4 were almost useless except tanks / mantis
It also did not help that the vehicles in halo 4 will like paper mache
I would like to see vehicles get a buff in general, they are basically larger power weapons, they should not explode from some DMR shots. I think the health system returning could be interesting.
I would like to see the reach system again, even though those vehicles were sort of weak, they had a very strong damage output. If the player knew what they were doing they could still do very good. Opposed to halo 4 where I could get hit by plasma pistols in every direction.
Reach’s and Halo 4’s systems for vehicle health are identical. I thought I ought to put that out there for the people saying Halo 4’s system was terrible and then turning around and saying Reach’s system was the best. Halo 4 just amplified the problems of Reach’s system by adding plasma pistols and sticky nades as spawn options.
Reach’s system was terrible. There were many times when I was in a Wraith or Scorpion, and two-three enemies would be spamming their DMR shots into my tank and ENDED UP KILLING IT WITH TINY BULLETS. That shouldn’t happen, ever. Machine gun turrets and anything more powerful, sure, but not from rifles. Smaller vehicles that were on fire were basically death traps, forcing people to constantly get out of a damaged vehicle and switch to a new one. That’s pretty much why Hemmorhage had two Warthogs instead of 1 like the older versions of Blood Gulch, because they were easily expendable due to the -Yoink- health system of Reach.
It also made the Sniper way too good at everything. People who are truly skilled with the Sniper should be picking the vehicle drivers off, and should not be allowed to put a few rounds into the vehicle for a free double/triple kill.
Halo 2 and 3’s system was the best, hands down. Vehicle SHOULD be more powerful than infantry, and rifles shouldn’t EVER be able to destroy vehicles. We have so many anti-vehicle options in the sandbox now it isn’t even funny, and rifles shouldn’t be one of them. This includes the sniper, which should stick to its original role of anti-infantry.
/rant
I agree entirely. While Halo 4 felt a little better in terms of physics and stability, Reach and H4 have very easily defeated vehicles. I’d much rather have fewer vehicles and have them harder to kill, as in Halo 2 and 3. It makes it more fun as a driver and a gunner, and more fun on foot when you have to do more to blow them up than follow them around with an AR for twenty seconds.
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> I agree entirely. While Halo 4 felt a little better in terms of physics and stability, Reach and H4 have very easily defeated vehicles. I’d much rather have fewer vehicles and have them harder to kill, as in Halo 2 and 3. It makes it more fun as a driver and a gunner, and more fun on foot when you have to do more to blow them up than follow them around with an AR for twenty seconds.
Halo reach had a big skill gap with vehicles. Somebody good with vehicles could make them last a long time, they may have been weaker in terms of armor, but they were very deadly if used right. I would love for the reach system to return.
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> Reach’s and Halo 4’s systems for vehicle health are identical. I thought I ought to put that out there for the people saying Halo 4’s system was terrible and then turning around and saying Reach’s system was the best. Halo 4 just amplified the problems of Reach’s system by adding plasma pistols and sticky nades as spawn options.
>
> Reach’s system was terrible. There were many times when I was in a Wraith or Scorpion, and two-three enemies would be spamming their DMR shots into my tank and ENDED UP KILLING IT WITH TINY BULLETS. That shouldn’t happen, ever. Machine gun turrets and anything more powerful, sure, but not from rifles. Smaller vehicles that were on fire were basically death traps, forcing people to constantly get out of a damaged vehicle and switch to a new one. That’s pretty much why Hemmorhage had two Warthogs instead of 1 like the older versions of Blood Gulch, because they were easily expendable due to the -Yoink- health system of Reach.
>
> It also made the Sniper way too good at everything. People who are truly skilled with the Sniper should be picking the vehicle drivers off, and should not be allowed to put a few rounds into the vehicle for a free double/triple kill.
>
> Halo 2 and 3’s system was the best, hands down. Vehicle SHOULD be more powerful than infantry, and rifles shouldn’t EVER be able to destroy vehicles. We have so many anti-vehicle options in the sandbox now it isn’t even funny, and rifles shouldn’t be one of them. This includes the sniper, which should stick to its original role of anti-infantry.
>
> /rant
I would have to disagree, the reach system just had a big skill gap and halo 4 would have had good vehicle gameplay if the weapon system was not so flawed.
In reach, somebody decent with vehicles could get some kills, however if a player used the vehicle in a smart way it would become a tool of destruction. The reach system encouraged you to be defensive alone, however offensive with your team. Teamwork played very well with the vehicles.
The vehicles had to be balanced this way because of how strong their attack were. Vehicles were treated as sort of just big power weapons, you cannot go up against multiple people without any form of defense.
Ex. You wait for the enemy while in a tank and take out pushing enemies, once your team advances, you push with them and they give you support. If you support your team while they push up while they support you, you can choke the enemy team and proceed to destroy them. Don’t directly run into crowds of enemies, keep a good distance so your tank does not become surrounded and you should be fine.
However I do agree the snipers were a bit over powered, they should still be able to take down smaller vehicles and mid sized vehicles, as the sniper is a power weapon. The sniper should be able to take down larger vehicles by pin pointing certain weak points, such as removing -Yoink- pit armor and proceeding to snipe the driver.
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> Reach’s and Halo 4’s systems for vehicle health are identical.
Reach’s vehicles still resist damage if the driver’s shields are high, even when badly damaged. There’s some math there.
In Halo 4 this does not occur.
> 2535432359236232;7:
> Reach’s system was terrible. There were many times when I was in a Wraith or Scorpion, and two-three enemies would be spamming their DMR shots into my tank and ENDED UP KILLING IT WITH TINY BULLETS. That shouldn’t happen, ever. Machine gun turrets and anything more powerful, sure, but not from rifles. Smaller vehicles that were on fire were basically death traps, forcing people to constantly get out of a damaged vehicle and switch to a new one. That’s pretty much why Hemmorhage had two Warthogs instead of 1 like the older versions of Blood Gulch, because they were easily expendable due to the -Yoink- health system of Reach.
My 35-0 run Wednesday with the Wraith in Hemorrhage would like a word with you.
If I remember correctly, your vehicle will be destroyed by any weapon if you let your health drop too low in Halo 3 and 2, and it takes 9 consecutive shots with the DMR just to damage a Banshee one lousy level in Reach. It would take more than 4x as much to damage a Wraith. Your driving just wasn’t great, man…
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> It also made the Sniper way too good at everything. People who are truly skilled with the Sniper should be picking the vehicle drivers off, and should not be allowed to put a few rounds into the vehicle for a free double/triple kill.
Some objectivity there!
> 2535432359236232;7:
> Halo 2 and 3’s system was the best, hands down. Vehicle SHOULD be more powerful than infantry, and rifles shouldn’t EVER be able to destroy vehicles. We have so many anti-vehicle options in the sandbox now it isn’t even funny, and rifles shouldn’t be one of them. This includes the sniper, which should stick to its original role of anti-infantry.
>
> /rant
Faster + more health and firepower than infantry = stronger than infantry…
If you and 3 other people are on the wrong end of a Warthog turret in Reach, yes, it will chop all 3 of you down every time.
I would like to see them create a system where bullets barely hurt vehicles but plasma damages it fairly quickly. It kind of makes sense from a canonical perspective, as blasts of hot plasma would probably damage a vehicle more than a fast moving piece of metal. It would also give people more reason to use plasma weapons.
Also, I want the pp overcharge freezing vehicle function to die.
While i agree with you 100%, reach did have this health system, only halo 4 had independent vehicle health
> 2533274827546373;8:
> I agree entirely. While Halo 4 felt a little better in terms of physics and stability, Reach and H4 have very easily defeated vehicles. I’d much rather have fewer vehicles and have them harder to kill, as in Halo 2 and 3. It makes it more fun as a driver and a gunner, and more fun on foot when you have to do more to blow them up than follow them around with an AR for twenty seconds.
There is a serious problem when anything on the map/loadout is an effective anti-vehicle weapon. I couldn’t ever use any vehicle effectively, especially the Mantis, because as soon as you get in the thing, you have DMR, BR, etc fire all over you and only a few shots completely annihilate you and whatever you were driving. And to people saying that the Halo 2/3 system makes no sense and say vehicles should have their own shield system, that is essentially what the original system was, or it at least worked just like that proposed idea for the most part.
Don’t really know enough about this topic to give any input.
Hypothetic scenario. Let’s say my vehicle is on fire, and I have like 3x overshields. You’re saying my vehicle won’t explode even after numerous rockets just because of my shields?
Halo 3 vehicles felt way more durable compared to current ones, but I had no idea that was the reason why.
> The problem with this is vehicle play is completely dumbed down
I don’t see how separating player and vehicle health dumbs the game down.
I disagree. The vehicles should have health, but where Reach and 4 went wrong, was not showing the health bars. Bring back the vehicle health bars from CE, but unlike CE, give health bars to UNSC vehicles too. However, give vehicles much more health than before. A sniper or DMR should not be able to take down vehicles by themselves, unless each vehicle had weak spots for more damage. Like a Warthog’s wheels, and Scorpion’s engine. Halo 2 and 3 already started this with the Ghosts’ gas tank (though it shouldn’t be quite as weak as Halo 2), and the Wraith’s back engine.
God no. Vehicles should retain an independent health system or you would NEVER be able to kill the Mantis. Vehicle health based on shields of occupants never made sense in the first place and in my opinion was very unfair at times. If you get hit with a rocket and barely survive because of luck, then you should have to abandon the crippled vehicle. Not wait for your shields to recharge and pretend it didn’t happen, it doesn’t reward the player who went out of their way to attempt to kill the warthog. It turns it into an all or nothing scenario and I feel that discourages the average player from trying to help the power weapon guy from taking out the vehicle in the first place. Not organized teams mind you, but solo players for sure.
The problem with vehicles currently is the over saturation of plasma pistols and grenades that people can have in their loadouts, and the fact that small arms fire needs to have smarter hit registry. I also feel the sniper has more power against vehicles than it has a right to have.
Instead of the current vehicle health, you should be rewarded for aiming at a vehicles weak spots. I’m fine with rifles doing a noticeable amount of damage so long as they are hitting a weak spot, like the wheels on a warthog, the rear of a wraith tank, the sides of a ghost, the wings of a banshee or perhaps the rear, and either the treads or the rotational axis of the scorpion tank for example. Vehicles should have different amounts of armor ratings against small arms fire based on the class of vehicle. Light vehicles like the ghost would have a little armor in the front whereas the warthog sides would have a moderate amount of armor. The scorpion would have a large amount of armor, and the wraith tank slightly more armor than the scorpion on the front since it is just a hunk of metal. If you are shooting these armored sections then a ghost would notice it but not be alarmed if at full health, the warthog driver wouldn’t be too concerned as it is an ineffective way of weakening it, the scorpion wouldn’t notice at all so long as it isn’t an inch from death, and the wraith would be virtually invulnerable to it. Again though, this is if they are shooting armored sections. The weak spots should have no armor or very little and should do damage relative to what we currently have in Halo 4 (not Reach).
This is the kind of innovation that 343 should actually be looking into because it enhances gameplay.
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I have to agree with this guy^ The Reach system may have had some flaws but it was still a good system and rewarded good drivers. I’ve never had more fun in a Wraith tank than in that game, it really was an absolute terror. The banshee from that game though can die in a fire, those flip mechanics and banshee bomb were also the worst halo experience I’ve ever been on the receiving end of. Worse form of being spawn killed.
Recently I’ve been replaying the MCC on legendary and it’s bothered me more often than not that vehicles and players share health, even when the vehicle was being damagedone and not the player it’s often the player that perishes first. Personally I don’t like that, I feel like the vehicle should have its own finite amount of health as well as certain damage resistances depending on how large or small the vehicle is. If the player is being shot and not the vehicle the vehicle shouldn’t be taking damage, vise versa for vehicle damage. Especially frustrating in full cover vehicles like tanks, wraiths, ghosts, choppers, and warthogs. Not so much hogs as the glass does get shattered and broken, I guess it’s too complicated to add a damage meter to glass. Still love playing halo, and still one of my favorites since I was young. A few issues here and there but in the end what can you do.