The necessity of ranked and social in Halo -

X-post from Matchmaking, as it seems most conversation for H4 matchmaking is occurring here (not sure why the mods haven’t made an announcement that Matchmaking related things should be moved to the Matchmaking forum, but I digress)


Now, I don’t know if this is an issue for much of the forum community, but I know it is frustrating for me, many of my friends, and I’m sure thousands of other gamers.

The bottom line? Sometimes people just want to relax, other times they want to put their try hard -Yoink!- on. I would think very little of the community wants to try their absolute hardest every game.

In Halo 4, we have what is essentially “ranked” gameplay it seems, matching players as if they were playing Arena in Reach or Ranked in H3. This is good for when players want to play competitively, but not so much when players are trying to relax.

With the way H4 matches are currently set up is that you cannot have fun playing with people who have much higher or much lower skill than you. Most of my friends whom I like to play with aren’t that good, and when they play with me, they go negative every game and get frustrated.

Also, 3v4 games, which happen quite frequently, are a serious issue when it comes to how H4 matches players. At minimum, JIP needs to be fixed to at least allow fair games if true skill continues to be this tight. On top of this, it seems that teams of 4 can match “randoms”, another serious problem when it comes to tight-true skill matches.

In my opinion, the best solution is simply to return to the dichotomy that H3 and Reach had, having both ranked and social.

I personally don’t care too much about how ranks are shown in ranked playlists, whether it’s on waypoint or in game or even there at all, so I will leave that for other players to delve into. Honestly, even if there was just “ranked” and “Social” but the ranked playlists simply had tight matches and social had loose matches would be fine with me. Of course, I would prefer in game ranks, but I understand if that is not a possibility. All that matters is that we have separate areas to best serve players of varying skill levels and moods.

I have always been a player who prefers to relax in social, and really don’t know how much longer I can spend playing this game with no playlists which I can just zone out and play for fun. I am sure that there are many others who feel the same way.

Please support this thread if you agree, and/or please provide a thorough argument against the return of ranked and social. honestly I would love to hear some objections, because I really see no reason that such a system shouldn’t be implemented.

Completely agree. I played with my roommate who doesnt play halo and he went -20 or something like that. I love playing competitively thats my thing, but sometimes theres times were social is needed.

I agree completely with what you are saying. On the other hand competitive halo is back =)

Ranked games were awesome because guests were not allowed in those. Now with 100% social playlists we have guests put into the population. Guest cannot be accurately matched with other players.

Also, Join in Progess has completely botched the Win/Loss statistic because we can now be placed into games that are not winnable.

> X-post from Matchmaking, as it seems most conversation for H4 matchmaking is occurring here (not sure why the mods haven’t made an announcement that Matchmaking related things should be moved to the Matchmaking forum, but I digress)
>
>
> ________
>
> Now, I don’t know if this is an issue for much of the forum community, but I know it is frustrating for me, many of my friends, and I’m sure thousands of other gamers.
>
> The bottom line? Sometimes people just want to relax, other times they want to put their try hard -Yoink!- on. I would think very little of the community wants to try their absolute hardest every game.
>
> In Halo 4, we have what is essentially “ranked” gameplay it seems, matching players as if they were playing Arena in Reach or Ranked in H3. This is good for when players want to play competitively, but not so much when players are trying to relax.
>
> With the way H4 matches are currently set up is that you cannot have fun playing with people who have much higher or much lower skill than you. Most of my friends whom I like to play with aren’t that good, and when they play with me, they go negative every game and get frustrated.
>
> Also, 3v4 games, which happen quite frequently, are a serious issue when it comes to how H4 matches players. At minimum, JIP needs to be fixed to at least allow fair games if true skill continues to be this tight. On top of this, it seems that teams of 4 can match “randoms”, another serious problem when it comes to tight-true skill matches.
>
> In my opinion, the best solution is simply to return to the dichotomy that H3 and Reach had, having both ranked and social.
>
> I personally don’t care too much about how ranks are shown in ranked playlists, whether it’s on waypoint or in game or even there at all, so I will leave that for other players to delve into. Honestly, even if there was just “ranked” and “Social” but the ranked playlists simply had tight matches and social had loose matches would be fine with me. Of course, I would prefer in game ranks, but I understand if that is not a possibility. All that matters is that we have separate areas to best serve players of varying skill levels and moods.
>
> I have always been a player who prefers to relax in social, and really don’t know how much longer I can spend playing this game with no playlists which I can just zone out and play for fun. I am sure that there are many others who feel the same way.
>
> Please support this thread if you agree, and/or please provide a thorough argument against the return of ranked and social. honestly I would love to hear some objections, because I really see no reason that such a system shouldn’t be implemented.

I agree 100%.

Twice my friends and I have been put into a btb game where the score was literally 30 to 5 on Vahalla and the other team had both mechs and both banshees.
We won one of those at a score of 100-95. and lost the other 30-100.
honestly, 343. fix your game.

> Ranked games were awesome because guests were not allowed in those. Now with 100% social playlists we have guests put into the population. Guest cannot be accurately matched with other players.
>
> Also, Join in Progess has completely botched the Win/Loss statistic because we can now be placed into games that are not winnable.

I totally forget about the guest thing. I think we can all agree that the vast majority of guests are severely lacking in skill compared to their host; with such tight true skill, I find it rare that a guest who actually is trying could be having too much fun in H4. Just one more reason to Social and competitive (seeing as they won’t necessarily be “ranked”) playlists.

In regards to JIP, I don’t think the way the system is now was the intended outcome. We have games starting 3v4 and ending 3v4, or 3v3 games that become 4v3. Regardless, in a tight-trueskill setting these are fully unacceptable.

Also there is the glitch where if you backout after the game is won, it will count as a loss. This is especially an issue when if you don’t backout, you have a good change of unbalanced teams next game, or the infamous 4v0 where you automatically get a victory after 5 min of game setup -_____-

I agree witht his topic, there isn’t a reason for someone to act all high and mgihty all the time, being social helps sometimes.

1-50 Ranked + Social. Everyone’s happy!

Matt can they make this change in midstream? I would support this if it would have all the same things as ranked would.

I agree! I’m not having any fun because of the players they’re matching me up against. Sometimes I just want to play without going into tryhard mode like I am having to EVERY game.

> Matt can they make this change in midstream? I would support this if it would have all the same things as ranked would.

I think there is a high chance that they could. I would think they already have what is essentially a dial to tone up or tone down true skill matches. All they have to do it add some more playlists, turn it up a little in some, down a lot in others, and there you have it. Ranked and social.

Well said OP. It seems H4 more than any of the others is a constant try hard fest. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but when I have friends that aren’t so great at Halo how is it going to be fun for them to have to play against some of the higher skilled players who have to try hard because there’s no competitive playlist?

I want competitive to come back for various reasons. I’ve gotten up to level 57 but there’s no sense of accomplishment. Playing to finish this specialization simply feels like a chore at this point because the only time I find the game truly enjoyable and feeling like “Halo” is when my friends are online. Other than that, no one’s working together, no one cares about wins or loss. Preserving KDR is all that matters to the “competitive” Halo 4 community because that’s the only skill gauge we have left. I’m not saying KDR matters, it doesn’t, but when that’s truly the only visible marker of skill in this game can you really be surprised when players put a large amount of value on it?

I never cared for KDR in the past and without sounding like a major dork I always preferred objective games and sacrificing the body to get the mission done. But now I find myself hesitating when I play CTF. Why should I go for that flag? 9/10 times no one is going to be helping an 10/10 times the entire enemy team is camping it with camo.

I don’t care about shiny numbers or emblems but I still believe competitive and social need to be separate.

I agree completely.

I don’t understand the absence of the ranked/social system. What’s not to like about it? The fact that you can’t cram all 50,000 players into one playlist? Enough people are playing halo 4, there could be more playlists

Its crazy, people complain that reach was to easy. Now people are complaining that Halo 4 is to hard. You just can’t please anyone these days.

> Its crazy, people complain that reach was to easy. Now people are complaining that Halo 4 is to hard. You just can’t please anyone these days.

You never could =/

At least this isn’t another thread whining about “try-hards”.

Halo 4 needs 1-50 end of story.

No one here complained Halo 4 was too hard… Read past two lines of text and try to understand what people are trying to get at.

> > Matt can they make this change in midstream? I would support this if it would have all the same things as ranked would.
>
> I think there is a high chance that they could. I would think they already have what is essentially a dial to tone up or tone down true skill matches. All they have to do it add some more playlists, turn it up a little in some, down a lot in others, and there you have it. Ranked and social.

Then you have my full support. Just make sure that no playlist has gametypes that the other doesnt.
Ranked Slayer/Social
Ranked BTB/Social
Ranked KOTH/Social
you get the idea. if it is consistent across the board then, well, awesome.

I agree but Reach didnt have ranked or social playlist, check out my thread and tell me what you think https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst135168p2_Competitive-Skill-Rank-CSR---MUST-READ.aspx

> Its crazy, people complain that reach was to easy. Now people are complaining that Halo 4 is to hard. You just can’t please anyone these days.

That’s like saying “People complain when the temperature is 0 degrees, people complain when the temperature is 120 degrees. You can’t please anyone these days.”

Or maybe devs just haven’t been able to find the balance between the two. When it’s freezing everyone screams ITS TOO COLD ITS TOO COLD so the devs go OH MY GOD HEAT IT UP, but then they get it too hot. There is a balance, just because the devs haven’t figured it out yet doesn’t mean we are an unpleaseable community. Are there people who are going to be upset no matter what you do? sure. Some people think 70 degrees is too hot, others think 70 degrees is too cold. But I guarantee you we can get more of a consensus on what works than we had in Reach, H3, H2, or H4 so far.

> I agree but Reach didnt have ranked or social playlist, check out my thread and tell me what you think https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst135168p2_Competitive-Skill-Rank-CSR---MUST-READ.aspx

As I said in the OP, while I would prefer an actual 1-50 that is in game, i’d rather have something than nothing, that something being a differentiation of “ranked” and “social” playlists. Would it be great if there was in game ranks for it? Yes, but I think we all know deep down that that isn’t going to happen. All I am asking for is simply tight true skill playlists and loose true skill playlists. Is it optimal? no. But in a world where the options are either 120 degrees or 0 degrees, i’d take 40 degrees over nothing.