the NAMED EXPLOIT SPOT!

currently, in the map ‘powerhouse’ if you use jet pack you can fly to the top of the map. apparently, in testing, players went up here enough with jet pack that bungie actually decided to NAME this spot as a callout area. this spot is just NUTS. it features a MASSIVE line of sight over the entire map, and THREE DIFFERENT things to hide behind or stand on top of. its like a little mini maze just in case someone happens to try to shoot at you when you were up there.

honestly, how do you retain any faith in game design when an exploit spot of this magnitude does NOT have a kill barrier on it, but instead has a CALLOUT?

quite frankly, im astonished at the number of jet pack exploit spots there currently are in matchmaking. theres so many 10 second ‘whoopsies, i’ll just get a kill and a flank, then i’ll hop down at my leisure’ barriers. these should all be changed to hard kill zones where you insta-die if you go there. not only that, theres an incredible amount of exploit areas where you can stand INDEFINITELY in.

updates plz 343. go clutch on this issue!

well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.

They probably just done it as a joke.

There is another area on Powerhouse where if you jump/Jetpack down the canyon on the right of the map just before the kill barrier, that has a callout as well which I remember they said was put in as a bit of fun.

> well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.

go start up a custom game, check the spot out. its on the very top of the map. you can even go HIGHER than this for a whopping 10 seconds. after you see the spots, you’d probably realize how they are exploit magnitude spots. if not, i dont trust your judgement in balance.

> > well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.
>
> go start up a custom game, check the spot out. its on the very top of the map. you can even go HIGHER than this for a whopping 10 seconds. after you see the spots, you’d probably realize how they are exploit magnitude spots. if not, i dont trust your judgement in balance.

you won’t trust my judgment of balance if it dis-agrees with you?
how very narrow minded and self centered of you.

anyway, i never said it was good, i just said it wasn’t an exploit, if it is an exploit then i guess using my gun is an exploit as well.

> > > well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.
> >
> > go start up a custom game, check the spot out. its on the very top of the map. you can even go HIGHER than this for a whopping 10 seconds. after you see the spots, you’d probably realize how they are exploit magnitude spots. if not, i dont trust your judgement in balance.
>
> you won’t just my judgment of balance if it dis-agrees with you?
> how very narrow minded and self centered of you.
>
> anyway, i never said it was good, i just said it wasn’t an exploit, if it is an exploit then i guess using my gun is an exploit as well.

narrow minded of ME? more like narrow minded of anyone with competitive balance on their mind. competitive players would mostly agree with me, i assure you.

really, though. have you SEEN this spot? its like a GLARING FAIL. its literally like a mini-fortress perched atop the map with a ‘sniper roost’ thats a 10 second soft kill barrier, just in case.

> > > well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.
> >
> > go start up a custom game, check the spot out. its on the very top of the map. you can even go HIGHER than this for a whopping 10 seconds. after you see the spots, you’d probably realize how they are exploit magnitude spots. if not, i dont trust your judgement in balance.
>
> you won’t just my judgment of balance if it dis-agrees with you?
> how very narrow minded and self centered of you.
>
> anyway, i never said it was good, i just said it wasn’t an exploit, if it is an exploit then i guess using my gun is an exploit as well.

Its because its really a god teir spot that you can reach with only jetpack…

How is that fair

Oh this place has cover too.

> > > > well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.
> > >
> > > go start up a custom game, check the spot out. its on the very top of the map. you can even go HIGHER than this for a whopping 10 seconds. after you see the spots, you’d probably realize how they are exploit magnitude spots. if not, i dont trust your judgement in balance.
> >
> > you won’t just my judgment of balance if it dis-agrees with you?
> > how very narrow minded and self centered of you.
> >
> > anyway, i never said it was good, i just said it wasn’t an exploit, if it is an exploit then i guess using my gun is an exploit as well.
>
> narrow minded of ME? more like narrow minded of anyone with competitive balance on their mind. competitive players would mostly agree with me, i assure you.
>
> really, though. have you SEEN this spot? its like a GLARING FAIL. its literally like a mini-fortress perched atop the map with a ‘sniper roost’ thats a 10 second soft kill barrier, just in case.

Urza…

You’re just wrong… because, You know… You’re wrong

Jk I love you <3

> > > > well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.
> > >
> > > go start up a custom game, check the spot out. its on the very top of the map. you can even go HIGHER than this for a whopping 10 seconds. after you see the spots, you’d probably realize how they are exploit magnitude spots. if not, i dont trust your judgement in balance.
> >
> > you won’t just my judgment of balance if it dis-agrees with you?
> > how very narrow minded and self centered of you.
> >
> > anyway, i never said it was good, i just said it wasn’t an exploit, if it is an exploit then i guess using my gun is an exploit as well.
>
> narrow minded of ME? more like narrow minded of anyone with competitive balance on their mind. competitive players would mostly agree with me, i assure you.

so, what you are saying is that “competitive” crowd understands game design better then the rest?
c’mon dude, get off of your high horse, firstly, most players are competitive, hell, casuals can be competitive, competitive is essentially just playing to win, secoundly, they agree with you because your opinion is the same as theirs, or, you are just extremely good at brainwashing, either way though, just because people agree with you doesn’t make you right

people used to think the world was flat, almost no one agreed that it was round, yet, it turned out the world was round and is now a widely accepted fact.

> really, though. have you SEEN this spot? its like a GLARING FAIL. its literally like a mini-fortress perched atop the map with a ‘sniper roost’ thats a 10 second soft kill barrier, just in case.

please, point out to me where i said it was good?

i never mentioned that it was good or bad, merely that i don’t see it is an exploit.

> > > > > well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.
> > > >
> > > > go start up a custom game, check the spot out. its on the very top of the map. you can even go HIGHER than this for a whopping 10 seconds. after you see the spots, you’d probably realize how they are exploit magnitude spots. if not, i dont trust your judgement in balance.
> > >
> > > you won’t just my judgment of balance if it dis-agrees with you?
> > > how very narrow minded and self centered of you.
> > >
> > > anyway, i never said it was good, i just said it wasn’t an exploit, if it is an exploit then i guess using my gun is an exploit as well.
> >
> > narrow minded of ME? more like narrow minded of anyone with competitive balance on their mind. competitive players would mostly agree with me, i assure you.
>
> so, what you are saying is that “competitive” crowd understands game design better then the rest?
> c’mon dude, get off of your high horse, firstly, most players are competitive, hell, casuals can be competitive, competitive is essentially just playing to win, secoundly, they agree with you because your opinion is the same as theirs, or, you are just extremely good at brainwashing, either way though, just because people agree with you doesn’t make you right
>
> people used to think the world was flat, almost no one agreed that it was round, yet, it turned out the world was round and is now a widely accepted fact.
>
>
>
> > really, though. have you SEEN this spot? its like a GLARING FAIL. its literally like a mini-fortress perched atop the map with a ‘sniper roost’ thats a 10 second soft kill barrier, just in case.
>
> please, point out to me where i said it was good?
>
> i never mentioned that it was good or bad, merely that i don’t see it is an exploit.

Well we do understand it better. He should say the more skilled player… Who understands the game more. The AR rusher, or the guy with perfect map control and teamwork

Urza Brainwashing? Lol that cute bro, I Agree with him, because its logical. Not really that hard…

I don’t agree with Everything he says (sword block), but I do agree with the general message he gives out.

I swear you kids just read into it way to much. Its pretty fun though, because he gets reactions out of all you kids.

> > > > > > well then it obviously isn’t an exploit.
> > > > >
> > > > > go start up a custom game, check the spot out. its on the very top of the map. you can even go HIGHER than this for a whopping 10 seconds. after you see the spots, you’d probably realize how they are exploit magnitude spots. if not, i dont trust your judgement in balance.
> > > >
> > > > you won’t just my judgment of balance if it dis-agrees with you?
> > > > how very narrow minded and self centered of you.
> > > >
> > > > anyway, i never said it was good, i just said it wasn’t an exploit, if it is an exploit then i guess using my gun is an exploit as well.
> > >
> > > narrow minded of ME? more like narrow minded of anyone with competitive balance on their mind. competitive players would mostly agree with me, i assure you.
> >
> > so, what you are saying is that “competitive” crowd understands game design better then the rest?
> > c’mon dude, get off of your high horse, firstly, most players are competitive, hell, casuals can be competitive, competitive is essentially just playing to win, secoundly, they agree with you because your opinion is the same as theirs, or, you are just extremely good at brainwashing, either way though, just because people agree with you doesn’t make you right
> >
> > people used to think the world was flat, almost no one agreed that it was round, yet, it turned out the world was round and is now a widely accepted fact.
> >
> >
> >
> > > really, though. have you SEEN this spot? its like a GLARING FAIL. its literally like a mini-fortress perched atop the map with a ‘sniper roost’ thats a 10 second soft kill barrier, just in case.
> >
> > please, point out to me where i said it was good?
> >
> > i never mentioned that it was good or bad, merely that i don’t see it is an exploit.
>
> Well we do understand it better. He should say the more skilled player… Who understands the game more. The AR rusher, or the guy with perfect map control and teamwork
>
> Urza Brainwashing? Lol that cute bro, I Agree with him, because its logical. Not really that hard…
>
> I don’t agree with Everything he says (sword block), but I do agree with the general message he gives out.
>
> I swear you kids just read into it way to much. Its pretty fun though, because he gets reactions out of all you kids.

explain to me how playing good = game design knowledge …

> so, what you are saying is that “competitive” crowd understands game design better then the rest?

100000000 times, YES.

saying ‘competitive’ people shouldnt dictate game design is like saying ‘scientists’ shouldnt do science. you dont ask the people who dont care about balance how to balance a game. moreover, that bit should go without saying.

> i never mentioned that it was good or bad, merely that i don’t see it is an exploit.

the issue is more than semantics, i assure you.

> > so, what you are saying is that “competitive” crowd understands game design better then the rest?
>
> 100000000 times, YES.
>
> saying ‘competitive’ people shouldnt dictate game design is like saying ‘scientists’ shouldnt do science. you dont ask the people who dont care about balance how to balance a game. moreover, that bit should go without saying.
>
>
> > i never mentioned that it was good or bad, merely that i don’t see it is an exploit.
>
> the issue is more than semantics, i assure you.

scientists design and study, where as the players just play, they do not design it, they do not study it.

the scientists creates cars, the drivers use the cars.

the player, you, would be the driver, so, by your logic, the drivers would know alot about designing a car?

i highly doubt it.

face it, you don’t know much about game design, all you know is how to play, there is a difference you know, game design has a lot more to it and takes years of study at college to understand, self teaching yourself it can only get you so fare, the rest will have to com from experience in the field.

knowing how to play is different, this involves using certain things to gain an advantage, employe strategies and so on, this does not in anyway, shape or form relate to game design, all it relates to is your play style, so, any feedback and ideas will be completely biased to how you play the game and, because people choose to play differently to you does not mean they know less then you, the chances are that they know and understand just about as much as you do, just have a different view and opinion on the matter due to a different play style.

the people, in the halo community that are going to have greater knowledge on game design will be the forgers since they have to learn about certain aspects to be-able to create a map that fits the game play for the game, or, to even influence and create a different game play, though, their play style still has an effect on it.

so, please, enlighten me on how being able to play a game teaches you game design?

it just doesn’t make sense to me, it is completely illogical, stupid, and is just a demonstration of a big ego, people supporting you does nothing but inflating your already large ego and makes you feel stronger and more powerful when in reality, you aren’t as smart, logical and reasonable then you are, you are just an average person like me, that guy in that house miles away, that person with kids.

> > > so, what you are saying is that “competitive” crowd understands game design better then the rest?
> >
> > 100000000 times, YES.
> >
> > saying ‘competitive’ people shouldnt dictate game design is like saying ‘scientists’ shouldnt do science. you dont ask the people who dont care about balance how to balance a game. moreover, that bit should go without saying.
> >
> >
> > > i never mentioned that it was good or bad, merely that i don’t see it is an exploit.
> >
> > the issue is more than semantics, i assure you.
>
> scientists design and study, where as the players just play, they do not design it, they do not study it.
>
> the scientists creates cars, the drivers use the cars.
>
> the player, you, would be the driver, so, by your logic, the drivers would know alot about designing a car?
>
> i highly doubt it.
>
>
> face it, you don’t know much about game design, all you know is how to play, there is a difference you know, game design has a lot more to it and takes years of study at college to understand, self teaching yourself it can only get you so fare, the rest will have to com from experience in the field.
>
> knowing how to play is different, this involves using certain things to gain an advantage, employe strategies and so on, this does not in anyway, shape or form relate to game design, all it relates to is your play style, so, any feedback and ideas will be completely biased to how you play the game and, because people choose to play differently to you does not mean they know less then you, the chances are that they know and understand just about as much as you do, just have a different view and opinion on the matter due to a different play style.
>
> the people, in the halo community that are going to have greater knowledge on game design will be the forgers since they have to learn about certain aspects to be-able to create a map that fits the game play for the game, or, to even influence and create a different game play, though, their play style still has an effect on it.
>
> so, please, enlighten me on how being able to play a game teaches you game design?
>
> it just doesn’t make sense to me, it is completely illogical, stupid, and is just a demonstration of a big ego, people supporting you does nothing but inflating your already large ego and makes you feel stronger and more powerful when in reality, you aren’t as smart, logical and reasonable then you are, you are just an average person like me, that guy in that house miles away, that person with kids.

I wouldn’t say that, some of the best players have had opportunity to beta test Halo 3 early! You can actually learn a lot when you are a contracted game tester and learn in a internship but not everyone gets though’s opportunity’s. I believe forge can also give a player of an idea of balance or forge would have been useless.

I can see how your idea of game design takes years of practice but with out the players,forums, beta testers the game has nothing to branch on to or expand itself!

> I wouldn’t say that, some of the best players have had opportunity to beta test Halo 3 early! You can actually learn a lot when you are a contracted game tester and learn in a internship but not everyone gets though’s opportunity’s. I believe forge can also give a player of an idea of balance or forge would have been useless.
>
> I can see how your idea of game design takes years of practice but with out the players,forums, beta testers the game has nothing to branch on to expand.

well, that is feedback from the player, the player doesn’t have to understand anything to provide feedback but, all that is needed is what people think about the game, if, say, so and so gets called unbalanced, you look into why, but, it doesn’t mean something has to be done.

players provide the developers with information regarding if they’re having a positive or negative experience, if there is a strong negative experience then you look into why, in reach, this would be bloom + a complete change in gameplay that no one really adapted to, that goes for both sides, they also provide information to say if the game turned out as it was intended to, as in, people are playing the game and utilizing things as expected, some things can turn out completely differently, but, this could actually be benefitial, forge from halo 3 being a great example, it is just up to the developers to decide whether or not it is harmful or positive.

i wouldn’t say beta testing teach’s you game design, but, it can teach you on how to provide good quality feedback which is crucial to the beta stage.

So lay some fire down on them, make them take cover; then fly up and give them a piece of your mind. Camp spots aren’t anywhere as big of a deal unless you play Infection.

Asylum has a horrible camping spot(or had after soft kill zones) and people would always scale the rock face and perch on the cliff, popping shots with ease. Me? I get fed up with this to the point of using the soft kill zone to my advantage.

I went from the left side of Asylum, Leaping up onto the sniper spawn’s building. I scaled it, jumped across. Ran into the soft kill zone, evaded twice and lunged. This player found himself going ragdoll and all he saw was a dead zombie fall behind him from the soft kill barrier.

I presume that this spot is ontop of the central building or some such?

> scientists design and study, where as the players just play, they do not design it, they do not study it.
>
> the scientists creates cars, the drivers use the cars.
>
> the player, you, would be the driver, so, by your logic, the drivers would know alot about designing a car?
>
> i highly doubt it.

what i am saying is, competitive people are connoisseurs of halo, and halo mechanics. more than that, however, they typically understand how everything works, and not only that, they will also be able to tell you how each individual thing can effect multiple other areas of the sandbox. they have a knack for detecting imbalace, and inconsistency, 2 things that they seek to purge from halo.

if you dont understand that this spot is blatantly overpowered (which was the point), then i have zero faith in your competitive opinion. sorry, thats just how it is.

like i said, its like a FORTRESS in the SKY. seriously. get up there and look around. pretty amazing to have line of sight to about 50% of the map, from TOP CONTROL where they have to have a JET PACK or DOUBLE JUMP.

you can stand there indefinitely, also.

> face it, you don’t know much about game design, all you know is how to play, there is a difference you know, game design has a lot more to it and takes years of study at college to understand, self teaching yourself it can only get you so fare, the rest will have to com from experience in the field.

no. what YOU need to realize is that i have a VERY GOOD understanding of how the game plays to begin with, ON TOP of being amazing at it. this is a blatant balance issue, and it is NAMED as a callout.

i bet a LOT of people on the forum would have rather had ME in charge of core game mechanics for reach than BUNGIE. i could have done 100000x better than they did with reach, thats for damn sure.

its not even about what you need to be a game designer, its about making mechanics and maps that actually make sense from a balance standpoint. this is one example of a blatant balance fail in the minds of probably 95% of the competitive minded people.

> any feedback and ideas will be completely biased to how you play the game and, because people choose to play differently to you does not mean they know less then you, the chances are that they know and understand just about as much as you do, just have a different view and opinion on the matter due to a different play style.

true, but there are some things that i have more experience with. a lot of the feedback i give isnt even playstyle dependent, its more like common sense and having mechanics that actually make sense when you look at them logically. bloom, no-bleed melees, jet pack, and armor lock are massive fails IMO. im also a strong advocator of what the majority wants / needs / would benefit from (like consistent weapons, that have bloom that actually WORKS AS INTENDED).

> the people, in the halo community that are going to have greater knowledge on game design will be the forgers since they have to learn about certain aspects to be-able to create a map that fits the game play for the game, or, to even influence and create a different game play, though, their play style still has an effect on it.

it doesnt take a pro-forger to realize a spot on top of the map where you can see virtually half of the map, with three different things to hide behind, thats also damn near impossible to grenade, and CAN ONLY BE ACCESSED WITH A JET PACK is something that is a LITTLE BIT OVERPOWERED. maybe just a tiny bit.

> so, please, enlighten me on how being able to play a game teaches you game design?

being able to play a game makes ALL the difference in game design. the things i push for are logical, intuitive, straight forward, non contradictory, consistent, skill-rewarding mechanics. these are things that everyone benefits from.

take a look at starcraft as a prime example. skill is PARAMOUNT to success in that game. do they make the game for bad starcraft players, moving forward? NO, THEY DONT. they make it, and balance it around the HYPER COMPETITIVE PROS.

SC2 is kinda huge, just sayin. as was halo 1, and halo 2. even halo 3 pulled its weight in this department!

reach took the ‘balance’ and destroyed it for giggles and funzie times. we all see how that turned out, right?

> it just doesn’t make sense to me, it is completely illogical, stupid, and is just a demonstration of a big ego, people supporting you does nothing but inflating your already large ego and makes you feel stronger and more powerful when in reality, you aren’t as smart, logical and reasonable then you are, you are just an average person like me, that guy in that house miles away, that person with kids.

it has nothing to do with ego. it has to do with confidence. i am confident i know what im talking about because i dont operate on a whimsical set of opinions based on what i prefer. my opinions are always grounded in logic, reasoning, and common sense. common sense, in this matter, is prevalent. i truly believe the recognition of this spot as being ‘overpowered’ is common sense. what do you mean ‘in reality’ im not as logical, smart, or reasonable? were typing on this forum in real life. im real, you’re real. were reals.

tell ya what. riddle me this:

if you are choosing between 2 people to cater to:

A.) the players who are bad at the game, and dont care about balance, and dont know how mechanics work or how they interact with the sandbox.

or

B.) the players who are GOOD at the game, CARE about balance, DO understand how the mechanics work, and know their full implications on the rest of the sandbox?

im not sticking you in either of these groups, nor am i doing that with anyone else. this is a purely hypothetical question, so taking offense to it would be silly.

> So lay some fire down on them, make them take cover; then fly up and give them a piece of your mind. Camp spots aren’t anywhere as big of a deal unless you play Infection.
>
> Asylum has a horrible camping spot(or had after soft kill zones) and people would always scale the rock face and perch on the cliff, popping shots with ease. Me? I get fed up with this to the point of using the soft kill zone to my advantage.
>
> I went from the left side of Asylum, Leaping up onto the sniper spawn’s building. I scaled it, jumped across. Ran into the soft kill zone, evaded twice and lunged. This player found himself going ragdoll and all he saw was a dead zombie fall behind him from the soft kill barrier.
> -------------------
> I presume that this spot is ontop of the central building or some such?

Isn’t it a bit overpowered if I have to use their same tactic to get up there just to see them? Jetpack is the only counter to Jetpack.

> what i am saying is, competitive people are connoisseurs of halo, and halo mechanics. more than that, however, they typically understand how everything works, and not only that, they will also be able to tell you how each individual thing can effect multiple other areas of the sandbox. they have a knack for detecting imbalace, and inconsistency, 2 things that they seek to purge from halo.
>
> if you dont understand that this spot is blatantly overpowered (which was the point), then i have zero faith in your competitive opinion. sorry, thats just how it is.

That’s funny because a converstation in another topic says “those” players have run out of steam when it comes to digging deep into the mechanics of a game

http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst58930p6_Im-ok-with-it--now.aspx
I’m still waiting to see this knowledge and understanding of games at their core over on this page.

If consistency is the key to Halo, why was bleed-through to shields and 85% bloom added in the TU settings instead of x0.75 melees with a buff to the AR/PRI/etc weapons to match that precision buff?
The consistency problem was only ever with the DMR, not the NR or Pistol. So why all these big and necessary changes that don’t fix things?

The answer is because the majority of those wanting a “beter” Halo are not advocating a beter Halo, they’re advocating an easier time for themselves and that apparently the idea is that allowing a stronger melee would increase the power/usefulness of an AR/PRi for spawn starts.

> > what i am saying is, competitive people are connoisseurs of halo, and halo mechanics. more than that, however, they typically understand how everything works, and not only that, they will also be able to tell you how each individual thing can effect multiple other areas of the sandbox. they have a knack for detecting imbalace, and inconsistency, 2 things that they seek to purge from halo.
> >
> > if you dont understand that this spot is blatantly overpowered (which was the point), then i have zero faith in your competitive opinion. sorry, thats just how it is.
>
> That’s funny because a converstation in another topic says “those” players have run out of steam when it comes to digging deep into the mechanics of a game
>
>
> http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst58930p6_Im-ok-with-it--now.aspx
> I’m still waiting to see this knowledge and understanding of games at their core over on this page.
>
> If consistency is the key to Halo, why was bleed-through to shields and 85% bloom added in the TU settings instead of x0.75 melees with a buff to the AR/PRI/etc weapons?
> The consistency problem was only ever with the DMR, not the NR or Pistol. So why all these big and necessary changes that don’t fix things?
>
> The answer is because the majority of those wanting a “beter” Halo are not advocating a beter Halo, they’re advocating an easier time for themselves.

those settings and their lack of implementation are wholely irrelevant as i am not advocating for 100% matchmaking settings, nor are most people on the forum. its completely irrelevant to bring up default settings.

and 85% bloom factually makes the guns that were strictly more-viable in the first place MORE CONSISTENT TOO. arguing against that is like arguing peanut butter isnt on a PB&J. this being said, ZB is the most consistent.