The Mary Sueness of the Human Race

Community Halo Universe
1

Is it just me or is 343 kind of presenting a human-centric narrative, for lack of a better word?

Let me explain. All of a sudden, after the war ended, humans are somehow the dominant power in the known galaxy, even after just making it through a destructive and all-consuming war against an enemy that was far superior to us in military might? I don’t buy that.

Also, why the angelic portrayal of humans all of a sudden? First, the humans in the Human-Forerunner war were taking worlds to make up for ones lost. Now, they were “just cleansing the Flood from those planets.” It’s like we never did anything wrong and all the other alien races are just jerks.

Plus, the marginalization of the Elites. OK, I get that they’ve run out of competent Engineers. But does that mean that they have to be suddenly ignorant and bestial?

Not to mention that I feel like the Jul 'Mdama story arc has been kind of pushed to the wayside (losing his wife and friend, etc.)That is one of the parts that I really like about Halo 4, that Jul isn’t just an ignorant cleric who still believes in the Great Journey. I like how he has a back story that actually makes you feel sorry for him. I know that the UNSC doesn’t know about it and Jul is hardly going to start telling his soldiers a sob story, but it feels like players who’ve never read a Halo book will think that Jul is just a villain “'cause he’s an Elite and he’s evil.”

In conclusion, I just feel like humans are being made to be too angelic and powerful. A race-wide Mary Sueness, if you like.

So, what do you think?

2

The forerunners had over 3 million worlds, losing a hundred shouldn’t have pissed them off so bad. not to mention the “mighty forerunners” shouldn’t leave them without defense.

3

Humanity did quite suddenly rise to extreme power.

But the Kilo 5 trilogy shows that we are hardly angels. The only reason we’re overowering the Covenant is because we’ve been bullying them, tricking them, and turning them on themselves.

ONI has been causing a Covenant Civil War, stealing their equipment and destroying the last ships they have. They interrupted a fight against the Arbiter with Infi ity, bombed the crap out of Sanghelios and backstabbed the Arbiter. We stole their Huragok, working their technology against them.

We aren’t angels. We are benifitting a lot from new technology, but far from angels underneath the surface.

Infinity was repurposed for peace. What kind of peaceful ship carries hundreds of Spartans and the most powerful engines, and ship in general, ever created by the UNSC? We’re trying to locate the remaining Halos, study them for decommision. From what ONI is doing, it sounds more like they’re trying to find ways to use the Halos to secure out power. ONI is sounding like the Forerunner Builder rates.

4

> Humanity did quite suddenly rise to extreme power.
>
>
> But the Kilo 5 trilogy shows that we are hardly angels. The only reason we’re overowering the Covenant is because we’ve been bullying them, tricking them, and turning them on themselves.
>
>
> ONI has been causing a Covenant Civil War, stealing their equipment and destroying the last ships they have. They interrupted a fight against the Arbiter with Infi ity, bombed the crap out of Sanghelios and backstabbed the Arbiter. We stole their Huragok, working their technology against them.
>
> We aren’t angels. We are benifitting a lot from new technology, but far from angels underneath the surface.
>
>
> Infinity was repurposed for peace. What kind of peaceful ship carries hundreds of Spartans and the most powerful engines, and ship in general, ever created by the UNSC? We’re trying to locate the remaining Halos, study them for decommision. From what ONI is doing, it sounds more like they’re trying to find ways to use the Halos to secure out power. ONI is sounding like the Forerunner Builder rates.

True, but I didn’t say that Humans ARE angelic, I’m saying that I feel like 343i is doing their best to cast us in that light.

5

I wouldnt say 343 is trying to cast us in an angelic light anymore than bungie did. Don’t forget halsey is now a hated war criminal by most of the characters.

The only halo’s that weren’t human centric was halo 2 and a book or two. Arby was just a strange follower in 3, and elites otherwise were in like 2 missions.

6

Oh no, making sure the genocidal aliens can’t commit genocide anymore, how terrible.

7

> I wouldnt say 343 is trying to cast us in an angelic light anymore than bungie did. Don’t forget halsey is now a hated war criminal by most of the characters.
>
> The only halo’s that weren’t human centric was halo 2 and a book or two. Arby was just a strange follower in 3, and elites otherwise were in like 2 missions.

The Halsey thing is kind of what I’m talking about.

“Sir, we’ve “just now” found out that Halsey has kidnapped kids and done all sorts of illegal stuff that we let her do!”

“That’s terrible! Go arrest her while I prepare the Infinity to go blast a few thousand Elites.”

8

That’s not being an angel. They could have let it be. She’s the “Fall guy” something the bad guys usually do. Mary Sues can do bad things and get away with it because they are perfect.

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> That’s not being an angel. They could have let it be. She’s the “Fall guy” something the bad guys usually do.

No, that’s what I’m trying to prove. I’m saying that 343 seems to be trying to make Humans out to be the collective victims of the entire Galaxy, but in reality they’re not.

Sorry if I was being confusing.

10

> Is it just me or is 343 kind of presenting a human-centric narrative, for lack of a better word?

I’m perfectly fine with a human centric narrative. :slight_smile:

> Let me explain. All of a sudden, after the war ended, humans are somehow the dominant power in the known galaxy, even after just making it through a destructive and all-consuming war against an enemy that was far superior to us in military might? I don’t buy that.

When is it said that we were a dominant power? I never got this idea, never got much of an idea where humanity stands in the game aside from we’re still kicking and we got one tough beast of a flagship. A flagship that, mind you, puts us now on more even terms in a naval fight with Covie warships thanks to it’s large arsenal and strong shields. Dominant? Not really. Survivors? Yeah.

> Plus, the marginalization of the Elites. OK, I get that they’ve run out of competent Engineers. But does that mean that they have to be suddenly ignorant and bestial?

Imagine your entire empire based upon another species to maintain your infinitely complex ships, armor, weapons…and then that race is no longer there. Sure you might have some engineering staff from other races, but without the actual Engineers you’re nowhere near your original effectiveness. Plus Jul’s forces were outside of Requiem for 3 solid years. No resupply, no refits, no reinforcements, no more spare parts aside from what they brought with them, etc.

> Not to mention that I feel like the Jul 'Mdama story arc has been kind of pushed to the wayside (losing his wife and friend, etc.)

Completely irrelevant to me, he’s a xeno and if I get the opportunity in-game, I’m going to kill him just like I gave his buddy Parg Vol a bullet in the brain. His species is still in debt for nearly 30 years of slaughter, they’ve got a long way to go before it’s even close to be paid in full.

> I like how he has a back story that actually makes you feel sorry for him.

I don’t feel at all sorry for the xeno. Oh he lost his family, boo hoo. How about the billions dead for the UNSC? The men, women, and children, whole colonies burned, and we should feel bad because an alien…an alien from the race that led the charge in that slaughter, lost family? No. Hell no.

> I know that the UNSC doesn’t know about it and Jul is hardly going to start telling his soldiers a sob story, but it feels like players who’ve never read a Halo book will think that Jul is just a villain “'cause he’s an Elite and he’s evil.”

I know his backstory, and I given the chance I will still put him down like the filth he is.

> So, what do you think?

I think the local Commissariat and Inquisition would like a word with you Xenos-lover…

Note that this was more of an in-character counterpoint to your statement and not an attack on you. Personally while I do see your point of view, I cannot share much of it because of the previous Halo lore. I cannot feel sympathy for this one alien because of the events that preceded them. I would be of the mindset of “now you know how it feels”.

I’d still totally shoot him though.

11

Humanity cleansing Flood worlds rather than being the Imperium of Man was better on account the latter one being kind of silly for such an advanced race claiming to aspire to the Mantle.

Seems to be, in general, a rather cynical tone being used in the story with absolutely everything. Humanity are imperialistic and xenophobic whilst the Covenant cannot get along with Humanity due to cultural reasons, and are continued as nothing more than genocidal maniacs. I don;t find any of it to be a good idea.

> Astartes Marine

Ah yes, the Emperor’s finest.

Finest meal for my Tyranids.

:slight_smile:

12

Angelic portrayal? Glasslands and Thursday War has me wanting to root for the Elites.

But in regards to your other comments, we are humans playing a video game in the long run. Of course, its going to be human-centric.

In the saga, the covenant, while strong as a whole, was a hard-partitioned alliance. With the loss of the prophets as a leadership caste, the individual partitions (or races) have found themselves lost. Elites for millennia have been the warrior caste and now suddenly find themselves trying to figure out how to farm and feed themselves. The other races are facing similar challenges.

Humanity, if anything, has had only themselves to rely on for all aspects of life, which makes them able to deal with every facet of everyday tasks. Combine that with the “reward” of forerunner technology, they are the only ones to excel in the universe at the moment.

13

I want to know where Rtas 'Vadum took the Fleet of Retribution and all the intelligent Sangheili (leaving Thel to work towards peace by himself).

Suddenly every Sangheili seems to see all humans as the vermin that the Prophets made them out to be, when I remember hearing that during the war many Sangheili actually respected humans as warriors.

I agree with the other posters that the books show humanity doing bad things, however it’s all portrayed in a way that aims to make it acceptable.

Sangheili are supposed to be the most intelligent species of the covenant, after the prophets, yet now they’ve been demoted to the status that the brutes had: mindless, subservient warmongers.

14

> Humanity did quite suddenly rise to extreme power.
>
>
> But the Kilo 5 trilogy shows that we are hardly angels. The only reason we’re overowering the Covenant is because we’ve been bullying them, tricking them, and turning them on themselves.
>
>
> ONI has been causing a Covenant Civil War, stealing their equipment and destroying the last ships they have. They interrupted a fight against the Arbiter with Infi ity, bombed the crap out of Sanghelios and backstabbed the Arbiter. We stole their Huragok, working their technology against them.
>
> We aren’t angels. We are benifitting a lot from new technology, but far from angels underneath the surface.
>
>
> Infinity was repurposed for peace. What kind of peaceful ship carries hundreds of Spartans and the most powerful engines, and ship in general, ever created by the UNSC? We’re trying to locate the remaining Halos, study them for decommision. From what ONI is doing, it sounds more like they’re trying to find ways to use the Halos to secure out power. ONI is sounding like the Forerunner Builder rates.

Just watch, ONI will find a way to activate the Halos and threaten to use them to gain control of the other aliens.I just want to see Chief and the rest of the UNSC destroy ONI. Margaret Parangosky must die or be in prison. She approved operations to destabilize Sanghelios even though Lord Hood and the Arbiter were negotiating peace. She would not trust the Arbiter even though he helped the Chief save Earth. By writing these Kilo 5 novels, 343i makes it seem like humans are purely evil but thats just ONI. At least we have the good ones like Chief and Hood. I hope Halo 5 will address this issue and that as Chief, we will have to fight humans for the first time.

15

>
> Just watch, ONI will find a way to activate the Halos and threaten to use them to gain control of the other aliens.I just want to see Chief and the rest of the UNSC destroy ONI. Margaret Parangosky must die or be in prison. She approved operations to destabilize Sanghelios even though Lord Hood and the Arbiter were negotiating peace. She would not trust the Arbiter even though he helped the Chief save Earth. By writing these Kilo 5 novels, 343i makes it seem like humans are purely evil but thats just ONI. At least we have the good ones like Chief and Hood. I hope Halo 5 will address this issue and that as Chief, we will have to fight humans for the first time.

Devil’s Advocate Mode Activated!

Why would it be bad if ONI were to use the Halos to control the other alien races? These were the same beings that underwent a savage, systematic slaughter of humans for over 20 years. Now that ONI has an opportunity to keep the former genocidal enemies of humanity in line, why should they be demonized in an attempt to protect their own people? Seems to be a general consensus around here that if humanity takes any steps to protect themselves that may have any consequences for other races it is bad, but if the other races want to protect themselves and humanity doesn’t fit their plans then it is okay if humans get hurt.

And really, it isn’t a matter of trusting the Arbiter, he is the best leader for humanities interests. It is about his people, most of whom don’t seem all that comfortable with the idea of humanity still existing. Stable government and leadership on Sanghelios would be difficult with or without ONI.

16

> Also, why the angelic portrayal of humans all of a sudden? First, the humans in the Human-Forerunner war were taking worlds to make up for ones lost. Now, they were “just cleansing the Flood from those planets.” It’s like we never did anything wrong and all the other alien races are just jerks.

I don’t see why it wasn’t both.

17

> > Also, why the angelic portrayal of humans all of a sudden? First, the humans in the Human-Forerunner war were taking worlds to make up for ones lost. Now, they were “just cleansing the Flood from those planets.” It’s like we never did anything wrong and all the other alien races are just jerks.
>
>
> I don’t see why it wasn’t both.

In the Lord of Admirals case, I see his personality change towards killing Forerunners stemming later on in the war after seeing the Forerunners kill his own people. I think humans had tried to warn the Forerunners about the Flood, but weren’t believed.

18

Yeah, i have a problem with the idea that all of a sudden the Covenant has nothing when they have fleets of hundreds of ships flying around. Not having the engineers doesnt mean that all of sudden a ship totally breaks down.

And the Infinity, for god’s sake, it literally plows through to get into Requiem and apparently gets no challenge at all cause it’s just up there chilling.

It would be cool if we were shown in both sides are basically at a stalemate in front of the opening to the world and they have to fight each time to send people in.

And i really hated the whole librarian saying it was her plan that all this stuff was supposed to happen. It really takes away from the human accomplishments.

19

> The forerunners had over 3 million worlds, losing a hundred shouldn’t have pissed them off so bad. not to mention the “mighty forerunners” shouldn’t leave them without defense.

Or they had defenses but were caught off guard?

20

> Why would it be bad if ONI were to use the Halos to control the other alien races? These were the same beings that underwent a savage, systematic slaughter of humans for over 20 years. Now that ONI has an opportunity to keep the former genocidal enemies of humanity in line, why should they be demonized in an attempt to protect their own people? Seems to be a general consensus around here that if humanity takes any steps to protect themselves that may have any consequences for other races it is bad, but if the other races want to protect themselves and humanity doesn’t fit their plans then it is okay if humans get hurt.

Using the Halo’s as weapons to keep other races in line would be a gross misuse of the legacy the Forerunner’s left to Humanity, and would only serve to prove were no better then them or the Covenant.

Arming the anti-human side of an alien civil war, as well as preparing bio weapons designed specifically to destroy the population of Sanghelios for “recolonization” is warmongering. Considering the Sangheli are Humanity’s greatest allies this behavior is better directed against the Brutes.

If Humanity spends 25 years fighting for survival against ignorant genocidal aliens only to become the genocidal aliens themselves, then handwave it off as “defending ourselfs” then we are worse then the former Covenant. Because we cannot claim ignorance, only responsibility.