The Map Editor: Rocking Forge-Mode

Games Other Halo
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///Map Editor: Rocking Forge-Mode//
Intro:
Heylo Everyone!
For all of you that liked to tinker or “mess around”, like I do. Map Editing is a great way to share your creativity and imagination with family, friends and others. I just wanted to put my two cents in on how far I think the forge mode has come in comparison a little toward other games since games like “TS” aka Time-Splitters and mostly Far Cry as the greater example.
The basic to now:
Let’s start with Halo 3, in the first bout of editing it was extremely basic by comparison with other known games like Far Cry leading the bleeding edge and let’s face this fact first. Halo is focused toward structures obviously as FC is largely toward terrain, as Time-Splitters is toward the level itself. In H3 we had limited interactive capabilities, we could make something in an hour what would take me less than 10 minutes to do in another game like Far Cry or TS.
Each game out there has its pros and cons in regards to its own editor. For me I felt H3 did well as a MP and Campaign game, but poor in the execution of it’s new-found Forge mode. I was just happy that it at least existed though. Anyway, it was painful and time-consuming to edit any given map in H3. Also, in relation don’t get me started on the learning curve for the PC Halos’, even if they were “editable”. It was a bit much, they lacked a more user friendly mode like Forge on the console.
Next up we have the game that pushed the envelope for Halo quite a bit, Reach! However, Forge still ‘seems’ to not get any patches or have any attention to it other than the occasional community ladders or that crazy stunt or sculpture found for download. Which is fun n all, but I love to build forge maps to play on. Eventually I wouldn’t mind seeing DLC & free DLC compatibility patches for objects in Forge. The Forge mode got a World, which is cool but that’s like saying: “Here! Look at this delicious fresh cake and frost it but not eat it-ever!” LoL! ;p
I’ve met my fair share of many players in Reach, to where a lot of them were new to it and others like myself have returned and many of us want a bit more out of Forge, even still. All I can say about Reach editing is, add snap functionality and terrain or trees, rocks, flora, fonna and its near perfect. Everything else worked great and I loved not having to sit for one hour on every little detail. by comparison though now Far Cry’s sandbox Map Editor still I feel is out shining Forge mode in other ways aside variety of structures and amount of objects.
I do admit I love both Halo and Far Cry, I’m an Editing nut. Reach has set Forge on the right path its definitely at the point to become more than the sum of its sub-routine and it shows that it can already. Just look at our community here and how you see others looking into forge made maps instead of just Multiplayer DLC alone. The effect has been quite positive I believe since vs H3. It’s like going from a boring blunt stick to a easy to use graviton hammer w/bells and whistles :stuck_out_tongue:
Things to add, near future: well maybe…
Well like I said in about Halo: Reach. We have made it to the point where I think Halo’s Map Editor (Forge) is budding to evolve into a more user friendly mode. It’s likely that snap functions are being added and other features. However lets discuss what I know and what you guys think would be cool. I even know that 343 is too small right now and have given H4’s forge responsibilities to Certain Affinity. I can guess that alot of this wont be in H4 yet, but hey if I post it here, it might become reality I’d hope.
Anywho- Here are some of my ideas for H4 Forge and beyond since Reach,
a. At least have an “Undo” last button (have you or a friend ever made a mistake that you wanted to undo?)
b. Edit basic existing terrain or edit a sandbox terrain map somewhat like Far Cry does, but w/more structures since its HALO! And I want to skin/edit/paint those structures and terrain too.
c. Copy, Paste, Edit an object!
d. If no terrain editing, let me fool around by placing down various shrubs, trees, fona, and flora on the Forge map/world.
e. Give me wood, steel, plastic, concrete & ect. planks/(flat)surfaces and blocks in 1x1 to “x by x”.
f. Save the copied objects as “one” object and use it later, as much as I want to!
g. Add DLC packs and stuff for Forge! (More stuff to edit with is always cool! :D)
h. Boost the cash limit or get rid of that and replace it with a more effective method.
I.Saves, not just auto- i want manual control too and to be able to go back to an auto point saved if I goof up.
Future Forge Mode Supported:
Other things like our Firefight mode, to which I forget the new name in H4 Should get the Forge treatment too, extensively all the way down to when and where a drop-ship spawns enemies kind of precision- in a user controller & in-game environment friendly way of course. In the future maybe we could see custom campaign maps in addition to my Firefight Forge request. I’d be similar to H3’s forge mode with “basic functionality” but only this time with advanced reach-engine tool sets and beyond powering it.
Wouldn’t it be cool to see what your buddy made up for a Halo story in Campaign? I would love to Forge & Edit more extensively for Halo games, even if it needed a separate disc or download to do all this- as long as there are more pros and useful/solid features than there are cons. I’m sure some of you here feel that Forge is a great tool for Halo like I do and that Forge can be so much more than it already is. Let me know what you think of Forge and where it could go and whatnot…
Thanks,
HiT
*Just an f.y.i. I saw the H4 CA video demo after writing this. It looks like some of my long time ideas are in there, yours too. :]

See some of Forge possibilities in the upcoming H4, here:
Halo 4 Forge - IGN

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Completely in agreement with everything you suggest. Halo’s Forge can learn a lot from FC’s map editor. I used it a lot too.

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I agree on everything you posted! I think this should all be implemented in Halo 5, since its going to be most likely on the new Xbox “720”

Off topic but English is not your language isn’t it? You grammar is good but usage of 3rd and 1st person are a little goofed up like someone not used to typing or speaking English, also usage of articles is a little weird. Either way good English :slight_smile:

Although if you are a native speaker…lol

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Well I just feel that FC is King in Map Editing and we have a ways to go yet with Forge, since Forge didn’t evolve with Halo since day one in Halo:CE. Naturally FC has had longer to evolve as a Map Editor, just as other games have. Like Time Splitters, even though I haven’t seen a new TS game in years.
I just hope that we see Forge do a lot more in Halo4 and not just the same old same old. It makes me happy to see CA working on it. As I think that they will add a new and fresh perspective to Halo’s Forge.
I’m very glad to hear you do agree w/me. However, Do you guys also have any other ideas to add or perhaps not?
Anyway, thanks for the feedback and critique.
>HiT :]
Off-Topic:
Well I just suck at typing and kind of did this out of quick anticipation. I do live in the US and completed my schooling, even had a few English comp teachers in middle, high, and collage. I do better when I take my time, this could count as a raw rough draft easy.
My greeting is spelled “H-e-y-l-o” on purpose. Like Halo said hey and then add lo as in the word low. It’s my informal way of saying hi.
*So yeah, I’m not complaining- If you like I can make an edited version and add it. :*
And
I’m sorry if it wasn’t perfect. As no single person is absolutely perfect. In fact I’m far from it. :stuck_out_tongue:

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> a. At least have an “Undo” last button (have you or a friend ever made a mistake that you wanted to undo?)

Undo buttons are a popular request, but what would constitute an action? A step? How far would you have to move an object before you get the option to undo the movement? If you go into a menu and change three properties on an object, would “Undo” reverse all changes at once, or would the changes be reversed one at a time? How would it sync across clients in a multiplayer Forge session?

Undo is a popular request because it’d be useful, but it’d also be a nightmare for 343i to design. :\

> b. Edit basic existing terrain or edit a sandbox terrain map somewhat like Far Cry does, but w/more structures since its HALO! And I want to skin/edit/paint those structures and terrain too.

Skinning and painting are lofty ideas, but 343i could implement basic terrain editing right now without making any additional changes to Forge. The trick is to add terrain pieces as Forge objects.

Since objects in Halo 4 are now lit properly, we could merge terrain-textured objects into the map’s hardcoded geometry and have them blend in seamlessly. So imagine if we had cubes, spheres, hills – multiple copies of each shape, each with a different terrain texture. We could build these right into the existing landscape, and so long as we dress it up properly, the people that end up playing the maps would be none the wiser!

Now, I know that to some, that sounds like a weak and ineffective approach… It’s not, though. Professional game developers have used it to great effect. For example, every rock formation in Fallout 3 is actually multiple rocky “Forge pieces” that have been mashed together, yet each looks individually modeled.

> g. Add DLC packs and stuff for Forge! (More stuff to edit with is always cool! :D)

Additional Forge canvases would be nice. I don’t think any version of the Halo engine is able to add new objects to an existing map post-release, though; 343i’d have to replace the map itself with a brand new version. :\

> h. Boost the cash limit or get rid of that and replace it with a more effective method.

THIS.

The rationale commonly given for the budget and per-category limits in Forge is that they help avoid performance issues. Any Forger worth their salt knows that in Reach, these limits completely and utterly failed to prevent such issues. In fact, the per-category limits have in many cases contributed to such issues, by arbitrarily forcing a Forger to use a more graphically-intensive piece because the cheaper pieces’ categories were all used up!

All we need is the global object limit – something around 700 pieces in Reach, could be larger if Halo 4’s engine is better – and per-category limits on expensive items (such as lights) only. That’s more than sufficient for preventing catastrophic errors. (Attempting to prevent anything more would either fail, yield false positives, or both, as Reach has so effectively demonstrated.)

> I.Saves, not just auto- i want manual control too and to be able to go back to an auto point saved if I goof up.

Periodically save your work as a brand new map. When you’re done, delete all the old copies. This’ll protect against data corruption, mistakes, and any save bugs the game may possess.

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> a. At least have an “Undo” last button (have you or a friend ever made a mistake that you wanted to undo?)

> Undo buttons are a popular request, but what would constitute an action? A step? How far would you have to move an object before you get the option to undo the movement? If you go into a menu and change three properties on an object, would “Undo” reverse all changes at once, or would the changes be reversed one at a time? How would it sync across clients in a multiplayer Forge session?
>
> Undo is a popular request because it’d be useful, but it’d also be a nightmare for 343i to design. :\

How about I specify to “undo” last object deleted via object by object. This method is common that much I know, its also something I could deal with as player.

> b. Edit basic existing terrain or edit a sandbox terrain map somewhat like Far Cry does, but w/more structures since its HALO! And I want to skin/edit/paint those structures and terrain too.

> Skinning and painting are lofty ideas, but 343i could implement basic terrain editing right now without making any additional changes to Forge. The trick is to add terrain pieces as Forge objects.
>
> Since objects in Halo 4 are now lit properly, we could merge terrain-textured objects into the map’s hardcoded geometry and have them blend in seamlessly. So imagine if we had cubes, spheres, hills – multiple copies of each shape, each with a different terrain texture. We could build these right into the existing landscape, and so long as we dress it up properly, the people that end up playing the maps would be none the wiser!
>
> Now, I know that to some, that sounds like a weak and ineffective approach… It’s not, though. Professional game developers have used it to great effect. For example, every rock formation in Fallout 3 is actually multiple rocky “Forge pieces” that have been mashed together, yet each looks individually modeled.

I think that would work. :]

> g. Add DLC packs and stuff for Forge! (More stuff to edit with is always cool! :D)

> Additional Forge canvases would be nice. I don’t think any version of the Halo engine is able to add new objects to an existing map post-release, though; 343i’d have to replace the map itself with a brand new version. :\

To which I don’t mind, if this had to take place. It may be a while yet before this happens, if at all. Oo

> h. Boost the cash limit or get rid of that and replace it with a more effective method.
>
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> > THIS.
> >
> > The rationale commonly given for the budget and per-category limits in Forge is that they help avoid performance issues. Any Forger worth their salt knows that in Reach, these limits completely and utterly failed to prevent such issues. In fact, the per-category limits have in many cases contributed to such issues, by arbitrarily forcing a Forger to use a more graphically-intensive piece because the cheaper pieces’ categories were all used up
> >
> > All we need is the global object limit – something around 700 pieces in Reach, could be larger if Halo 4’s engine is better – and per-category limits on expensive items (such as lights) only. That’s more than sufficient for preventing catastrophic errors. (Attempting to prevent anything more would either fail, yield false positives, or both, as Reach has so effectively demonstrated.)
>
> Well, its a popular request too. The only thing I know is that if this game were done with forge separately on a another disc or better as a download, it could have more room to breathe possibly.
> I’m an avid editor, and I know why its there, just doesn’t seem most effective. Some of my projects in reach actually suffer from lack there of, instead of inspire me to do with less, which I already do. For someone like me It doesn’t help too much as is with the money system. What do i know though? I just hope they adapt the system as we progress allowing us to forge more, not less. :]
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> > I.Saves, not just auto- i want manual control too and to be able to go back to an auto point saved if I goof up.
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> > Periodically save your work as a brand new map. When you’re done, delete all the old copies. This’ll protect against data corruption, mistakes, and any save bugs the game may possess.
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> This can be done without corruption, for example if I limit the saves to say “10” that are auto and manual then this would stop a few problems. There would also need a space predesignated by the game to use like RAM in a sense. I admit I’m just a gamer, but it’s a cool idea for future thought none the less.