See the thing is, you and others can pontificate about the mangler’s (soon to be former) unique role all you want, the fact is that by going ahead with it, 343 beleives this nerf will make the gun better fit the role they intend it to.
I like the Mangler as a spiritual successor to the Mauler, but as Favyn, among others, pointed out, 343’s philosphy is one of balancing mainly around “effective range”, and this universal melee nerf (not just mangler nerf) is a natural consequence of that philosophy. In 343’s eyes, the mangler is a poweful short-to-mid range projectile weapon, and nothing else.
This is also encouraged by people who uncritically parrot the praise for 343’s “viable” sandboxes, as they often miss the nuance as to how this “viability” is largely achieved, which is by limiting how many situations any one weapon can be useful in, so that another weapon can fill in those gaps. It leads to a conventionally “balanced” game, but not necessarily a fun one.
Says analogy, takes the literal interpretation and completely discarding the premise of it.
You don’t make it any clearer that there’s no argument to balancing game assets around players who are still learning how to use said game asset.
You are aware that chess has seen changes to its rules?
Right, that if anything perfectly showcase the issues with looking at the same gameplay asset under different skill levels, and how they perform.
The same principle applies to pretty much every single genre.
So, the question isn’t if I “seriously compate a MOBA to an FPS”, but
Are you seriously suggesting different asset ecosystems in a single game with different playlists inhabited by basically the same range of skills?
Let’s ignore the cost of balancing two different weapon sets for two different levels of skills, the problem of keeping imbalance out of a system where you’re going to get data from inconsistent participants.
Players learn, players find things out and abuse whatever is best.
Let’s play with the scenario that there’d be two different balances done based on skill.
In the Pro side they go for a utility weapon, and then a few others of varying degrees of power.
In the “Average” side the balance is different, some weapons are far stronger than Pro variants, but during the balance test, using “Average” players, the weapons didn’t stick out, barely used because the players in that Class hadn’t figured them out yet, found their use and so forth.
Given enough time, those more powerful than the Pro variants will find usage in the Average class, because players get better and will figure them out, or watch Pro balance plays, and want to test those weapons out, finding them extremely useful.
Suddenly the Meta can change, and a new batch of balancing need to be done. Now how do you think that version would look like? More in line with the Pro balance? Or the weapons made even worse?
And Lest i Remind you KC, that the Pro’s that you claim to know whats Good for the game, helped design and play test Halo 5’s MP which is pretty much hated by the Halo community, which might i remind you even the Pro’s crapped on when the game launched and they Helped DESIGN the dang thing.
So no Compettitive players do not always know whats best or good, as someone who was also pretty invested in the competitive seen during the Halo 3-reach days, and got back into it with Halo 5, a Large amount of Competitive folk only care realistically about whats good for them.
The involvement of the Halo Pro’s like Pistola, Goldenboy and Neighbour were all Heavily involved during Halo 5’s MP’s Development,
So the following quote is wrong. this was detailed in Halo 5 The Sprint.
“It looked Esportsy, but nobody in esports actually consulted a majority of those design decisions.”
The Pro’s were invited TO the studio to help with the gameplay and MP.
Of Course she Does, ive noticed she has a Massively Inflated ego, never being able to admit when wrong, see how she just luaghs you off instead of admitting that maybe shes wrong and been Proven wrong on this issue? She has narcisistic tendancies.
its interesting how she claims to be competitive but her posts so clearly reveal she understands very little if Anything about the competitive environment, while i cant confirm nor Deny if she was as she claims regarding one of the best players in SW Squadrens, given the inherent traits of narcissists, (A Grandiose Sense of Self-importance and Exaggerates Achievements and Talents)
i wouldnt be surprised if that claim was fabricated in order to make her seem more important then she actually is and/or to satisfy her Ego.
ive tried reasoning with her before, even proving her Wrong in anouther thread, all i got was this
“I have no idea who you are nor do I care.”
i guess if youre not someone of Staggering importance, Like she thinks she is. (she isnt, like the rest of us shes a complete nobody) she doesnt think youre worth her time.
which is a shame since i do think shes a genuinely Good person in there just plagued with narcissm, which she needs to see a therapist for, but that requires her to admit she has a problem first.
i was interested in reaching out and seeing if we can be friends because we do share similar interests going off her waypoint Profile, and some of the things i did see her mention regarding interests but sadly i think the Ego and refusal to admit when Wrong would Cause uneasy and unnesseary Tension and eventual issues for the both of us. ill definitely cheer for her tho to come out ultimately as a better person and then see what happens following.
that is my 2 cents based off observations anyway. does seem shes a cool and chill individual when just talking interests ect, but when you get into debate, things go downhill with her FAST
P.S shes even challenging you to 1v1’s and claiming she will clap you instead of “lets put it to the test? lets do some 1v1s and see who is right on the issue”
shes coming from a “i Must and WILL own you” and less of a “lets see whos right” angle.
The cost? Lol.
Just dedicate 2 teams to each region.
If balancing a game’s sandbox was so expensive, then no game company in their right mind would do it.
But like you and your friend have already said, they don’t pay attention to the casuals since they don’t know how to use the weapons properly.
The same thing would happen if the weapons were balanced around the pros, except, what worked for pros wouldn’t always work for the casuals since, like I said, pros know better how to exploit the weapons.
