Messages sent, let’s do this.
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People that didn’t think the mangler needed a nerf were either okay with it being hyper broken, or didn’t know that you don’t try to 3 shot people with the mangler.
Gun was busted. It’s still too strong in competitive play, and going by the comp players I’ve talked to it will still not be used in professional and competitive play.
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Well, another time I guess.
Pretty sure whatever they’re doing is not working lol.
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Mint Blitz too? I heard a rumor that he might be on something. Kill junkies give halo a bad name.
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whether it’s a player with skill or not, casuals never get a break from either the weak or strong. I don’t see the meek & wise being listen to anytime soon. If 343 really had time to listen, their consistency wouldn’t take an increasing amount of time to basically delay features & refuse some duck tape & paper clips to release lesser features than all older releases combined…!? They could of done a true reclaimer series after what they did different but management was never their strong suit.
1: the 10% decrease is across the board meaning the bulldog and heatwave will also see this decrease. we haven’t play the change yet so we don’t know how this will affect them. they may all be reduced to this two shot state.
2: the BR has a higher rate of fire than the mangler. you can fire two bursts from the BR and melee in the same time you would fire two shots from the mangler.
then why make this change?
They will not. I guarantee it. One shot from the bulldog or heatwave will drop shields at point blank, and that will be enough to take a foe out in a melee.
So you aren’t a competitive player who has any idea what they’re talking about, got it.
EDIT: Let me explain it to you. Two shots from a mangler will drop shields. Two shots from a BR will not. 2 shot mangler 1 shot BR is less squeezes in less time than 4 squeezes than a BR and it’s easier than a 4shot to land if your mangler aim is half decent.
The BR has a faster RoF, but the Mangler does more damage. Drop or swap, a BR to finish after two mangler shots is STRICTLY faster.
Because they wanted to normalize the gun somewhat and make it not the strongest in the game which as it stands, it is basically.
Right now having a mangler means you win every close up battle, and every mid range battle.
That’s not okay for a pistol.
Post nerf, winning every mid range battle is still too strong but it’s a start.
i’m talking about close range/melee. 343 said that the br will remain a 2 shot melee to kill. meaning it will now out perform the mangler in CQC. the mangler is meant to be a CQC weapon, but now a medium range burst fire rifle is going to beat it.
where is the logic in that?
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Because it was too good, as @Liquid_Execute said.
It was overpowered.
it needed adjustment.
But no, a BR does not beat it. Have you been hearing anything said by us?
The logic is that it was outperforming the bulldog and heatwave by a hefty margin and was deciding (and winning) the vast majority of engagements where people were actually picking it up.
Making it not work at mid range by making it a 4 shot kill instead of a 3 still means it would invalidate shotguns, so they removed the one shot beatdown which was the more problematic part.
You with a BR, while if I pick up a mangler and have a BR, you would straight up never get a kill on me in a 1v1 situation. Its that strong.
See the thing is, you and others can pontificate about the mangler’s (soon to be former) unique role all you want, the fact is that by going ahead with it, 343 beleives this nerf will make the gun better fit the role they intend it to.
I like the Mangler as a spiritual successor to the Mauler, but as Favyn, among others, pointed out, 343’s philosphy is one of balancing mainly around “effective range”, and this universal melee nerf (not just mangler nerf) is a natural consequence of that philosophy. In 343’s eyes, the mangler is a poweful short-to-mid range projectile weapon, and nothing else.
This is also encouraged by people who uncritically parrot the praise for 343’s “viable” sandboxes, as they often miss the nuance as to how this “viability” is largely achieved, which is by limiting how many situations any one weapon can be useful in, so that another weapon can fill in those gaps. It leads to a conventionally “balanced” game, but not necessarily a fun one.
Says analogy, takes the literal interpretation and completely discarding the premise of it.
You don’t make it any clearer that there’s no argument to balancing game assets around players who are still learning how to use said game asset.
You are aware that chess has seen changes to its rules?
Right, that if anything perfectly showcase the issues with looking at the same gameplay asset under different skill levels, and how they perform.
The same principle applies to pretty much every single genre.
So, the question isn’t if I “seriously compate a MOBA to an FPS”, but
Are you seriously suggesting different asset ecosystems in a single game with different playlists inhabited by basically the same range of skills?
Let’s ignore the cost of balancing two different weapon sets for two different levels of skills, the problem of keeping imbalance out of a system where you’re going to get data from inconsistent participants.
Players learn, players find things out and abuse whatever is best.
Let’s play with the scenario that there’d be two different balances done based on skill.
In the Pro side they go for a utility weapon, and then a few others of varying degrees of power.
In the “Average” side the balance is different, some weapons are far stronger than Pro variants, but during the balance test, using “Average” players, the weapons didn’t stick out, barely used because the players in that Class hadn’t figured them out yet, found their use and so forth.
Given enough time, those more powerful than the Pro variants will find usage in the Average class, because players get better and will figure them out, or watch Pro balance plays, and want to test those weapons out, finding them extremely useful.
Suddenly the Meta can change, and a new batch of balancing need to be done. Now how do you think that version would look like? More in line with the Pro balance? Or the weapons made even worse?
And Lest i Remind you KC, that the Pro’s that you claim to know whats Good for the game, helped design and play test Halo 5’s MP which is pretty much hated by the Halo community, which might i remind you even the Pro’s crapped on when the game launched and they Helped DESIGN the dang thing.
So no Compettitive players do not always know whats best or good, as someone who was also pretty invested in the competitive seen during the Halo 3-reach days, and got back into it with Halo 5, a Large amount of Competitive folk only care realistically about whats good for them.
The involvement of the Halo Pro’s like Pistola, Goldenboy and Neighbour were all Heavily involved during Halo 5’s MP’s Development,
So the following quote is wrong. this was detailed in Halo 5 The Sprint.
“It looked Esportsy, but nobody in esports actually consulted a majority of those design decisions.”
The Pro’s were invited TO the studio to help with the gameplay and MP.
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Of Course she Does, ive noticed she has a Massively Inflated ego, never being able to admit when wrong, see how she just luaghs you off instead of admitting that maybe shes wrong and been Proven wrong on this issue? She has narcisistic tendancies.
its interesting how she claims to be competitive but her posts so clearly reveal she understands very little if Anything about the competitive environment, while i cant confirm nor Deny if she was as she claims regarding one of the best players in SW Squadrens, given the inherent traits of narcissists, (A Grandiose Sense of Self-importance and Exaggerates Achievements and Talents)
i wouldnt be surprised if that claim was fabricated in order to make her seem more important then she actually is and/or to satisfy her Ego.
ive tried reasoning with her before, even proving her Wrong in anouther thread, all i got was this
“I have no idea who you are nor do I care.”
i guess if youre not someone of Staggering importance, Like she thinks she is. (she isnt, like the rest of us shes a complete nobody) she doesnt think youre worth her time.
which is a shame since i do think shes a genuinely Good person in there just plagued with narcissm, which she needs to see a therapist for, but that requires her to admit she has a problem first.
i was interested in reaching out and seeing if we can be friends because we do share similar interests going off her waypoint Profile, and some of the things i did see her mention regarding interests but sadly i think the Ego and refusal to admit when Wrong would Cause uneasy and unnesseary Tension and eventual issues for the both of us. ill definitely cheer for her tho to come out ultimately as a better person and then see what happens following.
that is my 2 cents based off observations anyway. does seem shes a cool and chill individual when just talking interests ect, but when you get into debate, things go downhill with her FAST
P.S shes even challenging you to 1v1’s and claiming she will clap you instead of “lets put it to the test? lets do some 1v1s and see who is right on the issue”
shes coming from a “i Must and WILL own you” and less of a “lets see whos right” angle.
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If you compared 343 tweaking gamemodes, then that would be a good analogy, but you didn’t, did you?
I took the only interpretation, because it is a stupid analogy.
I already said long ago, ranked can be balanced around the pros, social around the casuals.
And yet here you are, continuing to argue because, " I MUST COVINCE THEM I AM RIGHT AND THEY ARE WRONG, I AM THE ALMIGHTY, I KNOW ALL."
The cost? Lol.
Just dedicate 2 teams to each region.
If balancing a game’s sandbox was so expensive, then no game company in their right mind would do it.
But like you and your friend have already said, they don’t pay attention to the casuals since they don’t know how to use the weapons properly. 
The same thing would happen if the weapons were balanced around the pros, except, what worked for pros wouldn’t always work for the casuals since, like I said, pros know better how to exploit the weapons.