The Logic of WZFF

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

I’m not going to talk about the bugs and the overpowerned AI’s in warzone firefight, but instead the logic.

To begin, I get dropped faster by grunts and Jackles than I do elites, why is this a thing? A superior race with honor being their main code is less of a threat than a grunt with a plasma pistol, or a Jackle with a needler.

Why do spartans feel like they are made out of playdough? Like you’d think highly trained, augmented supersoldiers outfitted with titanium armor that’s more expensive than a fleet of frigates wouldn’t get dropped by a measly 5 shots of a plasma pistol. Or even by some shots of the bolt shot. In the books, Linda was walking around with basically two holes in her armor, and her injuries were so serious that Hasley had to give her surgery and implant two flash-cloned kidneys and a liver to fix her. If she lived through all that, why can’t we survive something that’s not even seven fold of that?

Vehicles are practically made out of plastic. If you don’t have wheelman on, theyre destroyed so fast by Prometheans and their stupid 100% accuracy light rifles. No point on exaggerating that, except that it can literally take 10 shots to put a banshee in critical condition.

There’s some more here to be mentioned, but I think you get the point. Spartans shouldn’t struggle with taking on grunts, Jackles, crawlers, etc, and we shouldn’t get dropped in 3 hits.

For one more instance, in multiayer it takes two melee hits to take down a spartan. In FF, a soldier can run up to you and one hit you with a slap. WHAT?

But yeah. Now I’m done.

#2

> 2533274864477733;1:
> I’m not going to talk about the bugs and the overpowerned AI’s in warzone firefight, but instead the logic.
>
> To begin, I get dropped faster by grunts and Jackles than I do elites, why is this a thing? A superior race with honor being their main code is less of a threat than a grunt with a plasma pistol, or a Jackle with a needler.
>
> Why do spartans feel like they are made out of playdough? Like you’d think highly trained, augmented supersoldiers outfitted with titanium armor that’s more expensive than a fleet of frigates wouldn’t get dropped by a measly 5 shots of a plasma pistol. Or even by some shots of the bolt shot. In the books, Linda was walking around with basically two holes in her armor, and her injuries were so serious that Hasley had to give her surgery and implant two flash-cloned kidneys and a liver to fix her. If she lived through all that, why can’t we survive something that’s not even seven fold of that?
>
> Vehicles are practically made out of plastic. If you don’t have wheelman on, theyre destroyed so fast by Prometheans and their stupid 100% accuracy light rifles. No point on exaggerating that, except that it can literally take 10 shots to put a banshee in critical condition.
>
> There’s some more here to be mentioned, but I think you get the point. Spartans shouldn’t struggle with taking on grunts, Jackles, crawlers, etc, and we shouldn’t get dropped in 3 hits.
>
> For one more instance, in multiayer it takes two melee hits to take down a spartan. In FF, a soldier can run up to you and one hit you with a slap. WHAT?
>
> But yeah. Now I’m done.

For the melee animation for soldiers is slower and players are able to dodge. Also warzone firefight is based on around heroric-legendary difficulty so you are more or less weak.
Vehicles not really. unless you are talking about ghosts or gungooses then they are really paper.
They can 3 shot us because it only takes 1 pistol shot to the head for them so who is at the disadvantage.
Well cause they are lesser elites then the others during a normal round ?
Either way WZFF is meant to be tough otherwise its just a easy free farm place.
In the end i understand what u mean by the players being extremely weak but remember that we have reqs and its easier to kill them than for them to kill us. Especially in later stages when u spawn vehicles. Also in case people mention about vehicles being shot down instantly, dont spawn in the battlefield especially when banshees are around :frowning:

#3

> 2535468425990603;2:
> > 2533274864477733;1:
> > I’m not going to talk about the bugs and the overpowerned AI’s in warzone firefight, but instead the logic.
> >
> > To begin, I get dropped faster by grunts and Jackles than I do elites, why is this a thing? A superior race with honor being their main code is less of a threat than a grunt with a plasma pistol, or a Jackle with a needler.
> >
> > Why do spartans feel like they are made out of playdough? Like you’d think highly trained, augmented supersoldiers outfitted with titanium armor that’s more expensive than a fleet of frigates wouldn’t get dropped by a measly 5 shots of a plasma pistol. Or even by some shots of the bolt shot. In the books, Linda was walking around with basically two holes in her armor, and her injuries were so serious that Hasley had to give her surgery and implant two flash-cloned kidneys and a liver to fix her. If she lived through all that, why can’t we survive something that’s not even seven fold of that?
> >
> > Vehicles are practically made out of plastic. If you don’t have wheelman on, theyre destroyed so fast by Prometheans and their stupid 100% accuracy light rifles. No point on exaggerating that, except that it can literally take 10 shots to put a banshee in critical condition.
> >
> > There’s some more here to be mentioned, but I think you get the point. Spartans shouldn’t struggle with taking on grunts, Jackles, crawlers, etc, and we shouldn’t get dropped in 3 hits.
> >
> > For one more instance, in multiayer it takes two melee hits to take down a spartan. In FF, a soldier can run up to you and one hit you with a slap. WHAT?
> >
> > But yeah. Now I’m done.
>
>
> For the melee animation for soldiers is slower and players are able to dodge. Also warzone firefight is based on around heroric-legendary difficulty so you are more or less weak.
> Vehicles not really. unless you are talking about ghosts or gungooses then they are really paper.
> They can 3 shot us because it only takes 1 pistol shot to the head for them so who is at the disadvantage.
> Well cause they are lesser elites then the others during a normal round ?
> Either way WZFF is meant to be tough otherwise its just a easy free farm game .
> In the end i understand what u mean by the players being extremely weak but remember that we have reqs and its easier to kill them than for them to kill us. Especially in later stages when u spawn vehicles. Also in case people mention about vehicles being shot down instantly, dont spawn in the battlefield especially when banshees are around :frowning:

I’m not talking in terms of the game itself, I’m talking about just the generalizations of it. Yes, I know its geared towards tougher gameplay, I’ve had plenty of game time to experience it, but I’m talking in the sense of logic in the Halo lore. How often do you see a spartan fall because of Jackles and grunts? And they don’t have to be big numbers either. I have to actively strafe and dodge and all of the above when I’m facing anything over three Jackles in an open field.

#4

> 2533274864477733;3:
> > 2535468425990603;2:
> > > 2533274864477733;1:
> > > I’m not going to talk about the bugs and the overpowerned AI’s in warzone firefight, but instead the logic.
> > >
> > > To begin, I get dropped faster by grunts and Jackles than I do elites, why is this a thing? A superior race with honor being their main code is less of a threat than a grunt with a plasma pistol, or a Jackle with a needler.
> > >
> > > Why do spartans feel like they are made out of playdough? Like you’d think highly trained, augmented supersoldiers outfitted with titanium armor that’s more expensive than a fleet of frigates wouldn’t get dropped by a measly 5 shots of a plasma pistol. Or even by some shots of the bolt shot. In the books, Linda was walking around with basically two holes in her armor, and her injuries were so serious that Hasley had to give her surgery and implant two flash-cloned kidneys and a liver to fix her. If she lived through all that, why can’t we survive something that’s not even seven fold of that?
> > >
> > > Vehicles are practically made out of plastic. If you don’t have wheelman on, theyre destroyed so fast by Prometheans and their stupid 100% accuracy light rifles. No point on exaggerating that, except that it can literally take 10 shots to put a banshee in critical condition.
> > >
> > > There’s some more here to be mentioned, but I think you get the point. Spartans shouldn’t struggle with taking on grunts, Jackles, crawlers, etc, and we shouldn’t get dropped in 3 hits.
> > >
> > > For one more instance, in multiayer it takes two melee hits to take down a spartan. In FF, a soldier can run up to you and one hit you with a slap. WHAT?
> > >
> > > But yeah. Now I’m done.
> >
> >
> > For the melee animation for soldiers is slower and players are able to dodge. Also warzone firefight is based on around heroric-legendary difficulty so you are more or less weak.
> > Vehicles not really. unless you are talking about ghosts or gungooses then they are really paper.
> > They can 3 shot us because it only takes 1 pistol shot to the head for them so who is at the disadvantage.
> > Well cause they are lesser elites then the others during a normal round ?
> > Either way WZFF is meant to be tough otherwise its just a easy free farm game .
> > In the end i understand what u mean by the players being extremely weak but remember that we have reqs and its easier to kill them than for them to kill us. Especially in later stages when u spawn vehicles. Also in case people mention about vehicles being shot down instantly, dont spawn in the battlefield especially when banshees are around :frowning:
>
>
> I’m not talking in terms of the game itself, I’m talking about just the generalizations of it. Yes, I know its geared towards tougher gameplay, I’ve had plenty of game time to experience it, but I’m talking in the sense of logic in the Halo lore. How often do you see a spartan fall because of Jackles and grunts? And they don’t have to be big numbers either. I have to actively strafe and dodge and all of the above when I’m facing anything over three Jackles in an open field.

343 Halo gameplay and lore doesnt match much. Its like water and oil

#5

I agree with a lot of what you said. Especially when it comes to vehicles. Wheelman perk or not, certain enemies (plasma turret gunners on phantoms…) can destroy your vehicle in seconds. If you’re on foot they can kill you in less than a second. Literally. If you don’t believe me there are a few videos on it.

For me, it’s important the game play be as close to the lore as possible but game play is always more important. That said, sometimes it works in our favor and sometimes it doesn’t. I mean why is it that whenever you pop an elites shield he stands there and yells for a second or two? It’s to give the player a chance at a head shot. When in reality, an elite would never do that in the lore. They either charge you or find cover immediately.

My problem with it is mainly the enemies that can kill you near instantly with weapons that shouldn’t be doing that. I also dislike the fact that, unless you call in reqs, you are nearly useless after wave 3. Success in firefight isn’t so much dependant on the skill of the players, it’s more so about who is being stingy and who isn’t.

I’d like to say certain objectives are numerically impossible without reqs. Take the best firefight players in the world, top 8, put them on a team, and have them do the double warden wave 5 on Urban with just load out weapons. I would argue that is physically impossible to complete. And that’s what I dislike about the final product of firefight. The beta was designed to be POSSIBLE without the use of reqs. I would argue certain objectives simply cannot be completed without them.

#6

> 2533274812650916;5:
> I agree with a lot of what you said. Especially when it comes to vehicles. Wheelman perk or not, certain enemies (plasma turret gunners on phantoms…) can destroy your vehicle in seconds. If you’re on foot they can kill you in less than a second. Literally. If you don’t believe me there are a few videos on it.
>
> For me, it’s important the game play be as close to the lore as possible but game play is always more important. That said, sometimes it works in our favor and sometimes it doesn’t. I mean why is it that whenever you pop an elites shield he stands there and yells for a second or two? It’s to give the player a chance at a head shot. When in reality, an elite would never do that in the lore. They either charge you or find cover immediately.
>
> My problem with it is mainly the enemies that can kill you near instantly with weapons that shouldn’t be doing that. I also dislike the fact that, unless you call in reqs, you are nearly useless after wave 3. Success in firefight isn’t so much dependant on the skill of the players, it’s more so about who is being stingy and who isn’t.
>
> I’d like to say certain objectives are numerically impossible without reqs. Take the best firefight players in the world, top 8, put them on a team, and have them do the double warden wave 5 on Urban with just load out weapons. I would argue that is physically impossible to complete. And that’s what I dislike about the final product of firefight. The beta was designed to be POSSIBLE without the use of reqs. I would argue certain objectives simply cannot be completed without them.

The fact is that they mostly geared it towards the req to make you want to buy more of them, which isn’t the problem. Like you said, the beta was made to be possible without reqs. But now because they’re pushing req sales, they made firefight success almost dependent on the reqs that you spawn in.

The fact that the game mode itself is so hard makes me question if the people in charge of FF actually play-tested it, rather than just release it. If I were a game developer and I had that much frustration from one gamemode, I would definitely change it instead of release it.
I mean its up to the point to where I feel as if I’m throwing toothpicks at the enemeies, while their throwing spears at 99% the speed of light.

#7

> 2535468425990603;2:
> > 2533274864477733;1:
> > I’m not going to talk about the bugs and the overpowerned AI’s in warzone firefight, but instead the logic.
> >
> > To begin, I get dropped faster by grunts and Jackles than I do elites, why is this a thing? A superior race with honor being their main code is less of a threat than a grunt with a plasma pistol, or a Jackle with a needler.
> >
> > Why do spartans feel like they are made out of playdough? Like you’d think highly trained, augmented supersoldiers outfitted with titanium armor that’s more expensive than a fleet of frigates wouldn’t get dropped by a measly 5 shots of a plasma pistol. Or even by some shots of the bolt shot. In the books, Linda was walking around with basically two holes in her armor, and her injuries were so serious that Hasley had to give her surgery and implant two flash-cloned kidneys and a liver to fix her. If she lived through all that, why can’t we survive something that’s not even seven fold of that?
> >
> > Vehicles are practically made out of plastic. If you don’t have wheelman on, theyre destroyed so fast by Prometheans and their stupid 100% accuracy light rifles. No point on exaggerating that, except that it can literally take 10 shots to put a banshee in critical condition.
> >
> > There’s some more here to be mentioned, but I think you get the point. Spartans shouldn’t struggle with taking on grunts, Jackles, crawlers, etc, and we shouldn’t get dropped in 3 hits.
> >
> > For one more instance, in multiayer it takes two melee hits to take down a spartan. In FF, a soldier can run up to you and one hit you with a slap. WHAT?
> >
> > But yeah. Now I’m done.
>
>
> For the melee animation for soldiers is slower and players are able to dodge. Also warzone firefight is based on around heroric-legendary difficulty so you are more or less weak.
> Vehicles not really. unless you are talking about ghosts or gungooses then they are really paper.
> They can 3 shot us because it only takes 1 pistol shot to the head for them so who is at the disadvantage.
> Well cause they are lesser elites then the others during a normal round ?
> Either way WZFF is meant to be tough otherwise its just a easy free farm place.
> In the end i understand what u mean by the players being extremely weak but remember that we have reqs and its easier to kill them than for them to kill us. Especially in later stages when u spawn vehicles. Also in case people mention about vehicles being shot down instantly, dont spawn in the battlefield especially when banshees are around :frowning:

"For the melee animation for soldiers is slower and players are able to dodge."

Not always, since Soldiers rare flinch and their melee hitbox is huge.

"Also warzone firefight is based on around heroric-legendary difficulty so you are more or less weak."

It’s based on Legendary__+__, not even close to heroic. Even in Legendary I can ignore every other shot in Campaign.

“They can 3 shot us because it only takes 1 pistol shot to the head for them so who is at the disadvantage.”

The only complete 1 shot enemies are Grunts with no shields, Jackals if you move their shields, and Crawlers. Even Watchers survive more than that. So to answer your question, we are.

“Either way WZFF is meant to be tough otherwise its just a easy free farm”

But WZFF isn’t tough. It’s tedious and a REQ sink on top of it. How difficult any match is almost entirely depends on what map you get and what rounds you get in that map.

“In the end i understand what u mean by the players being extremely weak but remember that we have reqs and its easier to kill them than for them to kill us.”

We can all be equipped with Nornfangs for all I care, any two enemies can put you down in under 3 seconds. Any boss won’t even feel them.

*“Also in case people mention about vehicles being shot down instantly, dont spawn in the battlefield especially when banshees are around :(”*Gee I sure wish I can choose where I spawn my vehicles so that doesn’t happen.

#8

> 2533274864477733;6:
> > 2533274812650916;5:
> > I agree with a lot of what you said. Especially when it comes to vehicles. Wheelman perk or not, certain enemies (plasma turret gunners on phantoms…) can destroy your vehicle in seconds. If you’re on foot they can kill you in less than a second. Literally. If you don’t believe me there are a few videos on it.
> >
> > For me, it’s important the game play be as close to the lore as possible but game play is always more important. That said, sometimes it works in our favor and sometimes it doesn’t. I mean why is it that whenever you pop an elites shield he stands there and yells for a second or two? It’s to give the player a chance at a head shot. When in reality, an elite would never do that in the lore. They either charge you or find cover immediately.
> >
> > My problem with it is mainly the enemies that can kill you near instantly with weapons that shouldn’t be doing that. I also dislike the fact that, unless you call in reqs, you are nearly useless after wave 3. Success in firefight isn’t so much dependant on the skill of the players, it’s more so about who is being stingy and who isn’t.
> >
> > I’d like to say certain objectives are numerically impossible without reqs. Take the best firefight players in the world, top 8, put them on a team, and have them do the double warden wave 5 on Urban with just load out weapons. I would argue that is physically impossible to complete. And that’s what I dislike about the final product of firefight. The beta was designed to be POSSIBLE without the use of reqs. I would argue certain objectives simply cannot be completed without them.
>
>
> The fact is that they mostly geared it towards the req to make you want to buy more of them, which isn’t the problem. Like you said, the beta was made to be possible without reqs. But now because they’re pushing req sales, they made firefight success almost dependent on the reqs that you spawn in.
>
> The fact that the game mode itself is so hard makes me question if the people in charge of FF actually play-tested it, rather than just release it. If I were a game developer and I had that much frustration from one gamemode, I would definitely change it instead of release it.
> I mean its up to the point to where I feel as if I’m throwing toothpicks at the enemeies, while their throwing spears at 99% the speed of light.

That’s because during the beta, everyone was complaining that it was too easy because of REQs. So they made enemies that can stand up to these REQs. But since you don’t always have REQs at any given time, you’re only up to par with (certain) REQs and below par without them.

#9

> 2533274833081329;8:
> > 2533274864477733;6:
> > > 2533274812650916;5:
> > > I agree with a lot of what you said. Especially when it comes to vehicles. Wheelman perk or not, certain enemies (plasma turret gunners on phantoms…) can destroy your vehicle in seconds. If you’re on foot they can kill you in less than a second. Literally. If you don’t believe me there are a few videos on it.
> > >
> > > For me, it’s important the game play be as close to the lore as possible but game play is always more important. That said, sometimes it works in our favor and sometimes it doesn’t. I mean why is it that whenever you pop an elites shield he stands there and yells for a second or two? It’s to give the player a chance at a head shot. When in reality, an elite would never do that in the lore. They either charge you or find cover immediately.
> > >
> > > My problem with it is mainly the enemies that can kill you near instantly with weapons that shouldn’t be doing that. I also dislike the fact that, unless you call in reqs, you are nearly useless after wave 3. Success in firefight isn’t so much dependant on the skill of the players, it’s more so about who is being stingy and who isn’t.
> > >
> > > I’d like to say certain objectives are numerically impossible without reqs. Take the best firefight players in the world, top 8, put them on a team, and have them do the double warden wave 5 on Urban with just load out weapons. I would argue that is physically impossible to complete. And that’s what I dislike about the final product of firefight. The beta was designed to be POSSIBLE without the use of reqs. I would argue certain objectives simply cannot be completed without them.
> >
> >
> > The fact is that they mostly geared it towards the req to make you want to buy more of them, which isn’t the problem. Like you said, the beta was made to be possible without reqs. But now because they’re pushing req sales, they made firefight success almost dependent on the reqs that you spawn in.
> >
> > The fact that the game mode itself is so hard makes me question if the people in charge of FF actually play-tested it, rather than just release it. If I were a game developer and I had that much frustration from one gamemode, I would definitely change it instead of release it.
> > I mean its up to the point to where I feel as if I’m throwing toothpicks at the enemeies, while their throwing spears at 99% the speed of light.
>
>
> That’s because during the beta, everyone was complaining that it was too easy because of REQs. So they made enemies that can stand up to these REQs. But since you don’t always have REQs at any given time, you’re only up to par with (certain) REQs and below par without them.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that I should spawn in a Twin Jewels of Maethrillian and barely tickle a knight. There show be a firm middle ground, or a line they should not pass. But they went to the high ground and stepped all over that line.

#10

Isn’t WZ technically a battle simulation for Spartans? If so that would explain the inconsistencies.

FF is pretty dependent on your team’s REQ usage, more specifically vehicle REQs. There are times when I just want to use my REQ weapons for practice, but as we all know…Their limited ammo and the AI’s massive health pool makes them useless. Just wish there was a mechanism in place to balance this out.

#11

The logic of WZFF? Can we talk about how you won’t get credit for a boss takedown even after taking out 99% of its health, if you happen to be dead when your teammates finish it off?

#12

> 2533274937580949;10:
> Isn’t WZ technically a battle simulation for Spartans? If so that would explain the inconsistencies.

That makes me wonder:
Is the UNSC training their Spartans to become reliant upon weapons that they have to request to defeat the enemy?

Why not train them to be effective with the bare minimum of weaponry, throwing them into a simulation with a basic loadout, like original Firefight?