The "Let Halo evolve" comments are... Bu*l Sh*t.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not purposely bypass the word filter.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

  • “Let Halo get a refresh, let Halo evolve!”

  • “You don’t like change, so go play Master chief Collection and let us play the newest version of Halo!”

  • “We, the new players, are not gonna miss you, go back to your old Halo’s and let us play the new ones!”

… All Bul Sht.

1st. The immense success of the first Halo’s is based on two things ; 1. Incredible games that changed the gaming industry and 2. Player’s that were there, constantly playing those games, day after day, for many years (and still to these days with MCC).

2nd. If Halo was in fact EVOLVING, we wouldn’t complain, because, news flash, we’re not stupid. We like evolution, liked we loved the evolution from Doom to Halo, that was what we can call evolution (and a great one that is).

3rd, we deserve a new Halo, like you do, we just don’t like it when Master Chief plays like and looks like a modified Power Ranger.

It’s because it’s DEVOLVING that we’re complaining.

Surprised?

The intense, fast population drop of the last two Halo’s (that were supposed to be “evolution” of the previous ones (yeah, right), says that we are right.

And guess what, we care about Halo. For lot’s of people, like myself, it’s the only game we play, because we tried many others and we think they are greatly inferior to Halo.

So, let’s say you start a cookie business.

There’s lots of cookies on the market, but yours are unique and they are delicious.

Your cookies happened to be instant classics and you sale millions of them every months (Halo 1).

The next year you have doubts and you think your cookies should evolve, so you add more sugars (Halo 2 Matchmaking population).

Great, they taste great, and they sell even more!

The next year, you add a little cream to the recipe to balance the added sugars.

It’s an incredible success (Halo 3 matchmaking population)

You get confident.

Too confident.

You start to get fooled by the tricky equation that —> "more stuffs = greater success.

Next year, you add a lot more sugars, and your first sales are even greater than the previous months (based on your succesful branding), but they are rapidly declining over the years (Halo Reach Matchmaking population).

You get nervous, so you add a lot of cream to balance the last big amount of sugar of your last recipe.

Your branding works, and your firsts sales are awesome, but they are declining even more rapidly than the last ones (Halo 4 matchmaking population).

What do you do next?

You remove a bit of cream, and a bit of sugar (Halo 5), and you think it will do the job.

No, it won’t.

Note that in your last two recipes, you added A LOT OF SUGAR, AND A LOT OF CREAM, and your sales went DOWN the drain.

The solution?

Look at your most successful recipe and keep similar (Halo 3), or make small changes (SMALL!) if you really want to.

Coca-Cola was introduced in 1886. If they added more sugar every 3 years to make their product “evolve”, the product wouldn’t be drinkable and sales wouldn’t be like what they are right now.

They sticked to their most successful recipe ,and they are the #1 in the world in soft drinks right now.

So?

« Sometimes, less is more ».

Period.

That’s why I made this topic :

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/so-easy-to-understand-so-why-a-message-to-343/4c7f0d62-b3e7-4e3a-ba92-d7861401448b/posts

Hope to have participated in the debate in a constructive way.

See you online, when MCC is working, that is.

P.S : Do we stop the “evolution” of Master chief when he’s going to be dressed up in a red cape and that he can crush meteorites by spitting on them, or do we realize that “the evolution” of Halo is not found in more extreme gimmicks?

2

You’re absolutely correct about ‘branding’ and the way it works. People will point out Halo 4 sales but don’t get the ‘why’ part of it.

Halo 1-3 were so good that Halo 5 will probably STILL move many copies (the branding doesn’t just disappear)… however, I fear that 343 is running out of chances.

I love all MCC games, including Halo 4, but I’m just simply agreeing that population, not sales, are what matter for long term success.

3

Erm no sorry but I cannot take you seriously you just compared Doom with Halo enough said.

4

Halo is about movement in and out of combat. They are adding more movement options. Seems like evolution to me.

5

I believe evolution is a necessary thing for a video franchise to evolve because, unlike cookies, people only need to buy a videogame once to enjoy the experience and stagnancy in a series will result in people complaining and moving to “fresher” games.
However, there is such a thing as evolution in the wrong direction, which can take the population drop to light speed. Evolution needs to compliment and elevate things that made the game great, not turn it into something else. (unless it’s a spin-off)
Also, appearances can be deceiving, as something that looks totally different can still keep the core experience intact, while also providing a “fresh” take on the series.

TL;DR Basically, don’t judge the gameplay footage as good or bad yet, and don’t use “evolution” as a good or bad word yet. It could be either really.
Play the beta and don’t pre-order.

6

Bypassing the world filter is grounds for getting this thing locked, especially in the title.

Reported.

7

The fact of the matter is, Halo has stayed relatively the same (except for Halo 4 and Reach) for the longest period of time. If Halo stayed the same and played the same as Halo’s 2 and 3, an only made very minor adjustments every other installment, it might as well become the next CoD, only not on an annual franchise. 343i seems to be doing a decent job trying to cater to both new and old players.

First they bring back equal starts, take out ordnance, restored power weapons on the map, created an equal footing in which everyone has the same base player traits, and is encouraging map controlNow thinking of those new players they want to bring in, they speed up the gameplay using these things you call “gimmicks”. Granted, I’m not 100% sure how these will play out seeing as I have yet to play the game so I can’t factually say its evolving or devolving the game…However from what I’ve seen, each ability brings a 4th element to the spectrum of gun, grenade, melee, and that is movement. I’m thinking that these abilities will do two things

  1. Make Halo more attractive to new players

  2. Create a new skill gap between players

I do see your point on the whole branding bit, but it’s important not to simply state how you believe Halo is “devolving” without actually trying the game out first. I can see a tinge of elitism in both of your posts which also effects the way it is received by others.
It’s fine if you don’t want Halo to change, I believe that’s one of the reasons 343i made Halo: MCC to cater to such a group. However, if you don’t want it to change then you can’t say you deserve another Halo, especially without playing Halo 5 yet.

Will Halo 5 be different? Yes. However that’s not a bad thing. Unlike the oh so despised “CoD”, Halo 5 still seems to keep what made Halo special and different.

8

> 2533274828579555;7:
> The fact of the matter is, Halo has stayed relatively the same (except for Halo 4 and Reach) for the longest period of time. If Halo stayed the same and played the same as Halo’s 2 and 3, an only made very minor adjustments every other installment, it might as well become the next CoD, only not on an annual franchise. 343i seems to be doing a decent job trying to cater to both new and old players.
>
> First they bring back equal starts, take out ordnance, restored power weapons on the map, created an equal footing in which everyone has the same base player traits, and is encouraging map controlNow thinking of those new players they want to bring in, they speed up the gameplay using these things you call “gimmicks”. Granted, I’m not 100% sure how these will play out seeing as I have yet to play the game so I can’t factually say its evolving or devolving the game…However from what I’ve seen, each ability brings a 4th element to the spectrum of gun, grenade, melee, and that is movement. I’m thinking that these abilities will do two things
> 1. Make Halo more attractive to new players
>
> 2. Create a new skill gap between players
>
> I do see your point on the whole branding bit, but it’s important not to simply state how you believe Halo is “devolving” without actually trying the game out first. I can see a tinge of elitism in both of your posts which also effects the way it is received by others.
> It’s fine if you don’t want Halo to change, I believe that’s one of the reasons 343i made Halo: MCC to cater to such a group. However, if you don’t want it to change then you can’t say you deserve another Halo, especially without playing Halo 5 yet.
>
> Will Halo 5 be different? Yes. However that’s not a bad thing. Unlike the oh so despised “CoD”, Halo 5 still seems to keep what made Halo special and different.

I’d give you a cookie but the OP bought them all. Have a thank you and compliment instead. Thank you. You are awesome.

9

> 2535452373904134;5:
> I believe evolution is a necessary thing for a video franchise to evolve because, unlike cookies, people only need to buy a videogame once to enjoy the experience and stagnancy in a series will result in people complaining and moving to “fresher” games.
> However, there is such a thing as evolution in the wrong direction, which can take the population drop to light speed. Evolution needs to compliment and elevate things that made the game great, not turn it into something else. (unless it’s a spin-off)
> Also, appearances can be deceiving, as something that looks totally different can still keep the core experience intact, while also providing a “fresh” take on the series.
>
> TL;DR Basically, don’t judge the gameplay footage as good or bad yet, and don’t use “evolution” as a good or bad word yet. It could be either really.
> Play the beta and don’t pre-order.

that’s the exactly same thing people said about H4 and we all know how it ended.
people should get a wordbook & look again what “evolving” actually means.
he’s right, no matter if you believe it or not. that’s not opinion, that’s fact.
i’ve said it before, i’ll say it again. adding sprint and ads to Halo is like removing sprint & ADS from CoD.
change for the sake of changing never ends well. heck, why do you people think CoD is successfull ?
because they keep the core as it always was. CoD was a always a fast-paced game & no matter how many gimmicks
they’ve added, it stayed a fast-paced game. again, they’re keeping the core like it was

But 343i does not keep the core of Halo the same. that’s why the population is dropping.
it wasn’t because of sprint OR AA’s OR custom loadouts OR perks.
it was because of all of it.

the changes & additions are simply affecting the core too deep & making Halo feel like a completely different Game.
that’s not necessarily a bad thing, don’t get me wrong.
but that’s not the key to longevity.

Halo changed a lot from CE to 3, but the population kept going up, not down.
because the additions didn’t affected the core. THAT was “evolution”.
Halo 3 is almost completely different from CE, yet it did feel right, it felt like Halo.

that’s why him, me & a lot of others Veterans don’t like the new changes.
they’re not simply aesthetic, they’re affecting literally everything.
the map-design, the gameplay, the flow of the game…like he perfectly explained,
it’s just too much sugar.

and as long as 343i doesn’t realize this fact, the population will keep dropping.

10

Pre-launch sales should certainly not matter much. After all, how much can it tell you about a game that no one has actually played?

11

> 2533274886490718;9:
> > 2535452373904134;5:
> > I believe evolution is a necessary thing for a video franchise to evolve because, unlike cookies, people only need to buy a videogame once to enjoy the experience and stagnancy in a series will result in people complaining and moving to “fresher” games.
> > However, there is such a thing as evolution in the wrong direction, which can take the population drop to light speed. Evolution needs to compliment and elevate things that made the game great, not turn it into something else. (unless it’s a spin-off)
> > Also, appearances can be deceiving, as something that looks totally different can still keep the core experience intact, while also providing a “fresh” take on the series.
> >
> > TL;DR Basically, don’t judge the gameplay footage as good or bad yet, and don’t use “evolution” as a good or bad word yet. It could be either really.
> > Play the beta and don’t pre-order.
>
>
> that’s the exactly same thing people said about H4 and we all know how it ended.
> people should get a wordbook & look again what “evolving” actually means.
> he’s right, no matter if you believe it or not. that’s not opinion, that’s fact.
> i’ve said it before, i’ll say it again. adding sprint and ads to Halo is like removing sprint & ADS from CoD.
> change for the sake of changing never ends well. heck, why do you people think CoD is successfull ?
> because they keep the core as it always was. CoD was a always a fast-paced game & no matter how many gimmicks
> they’ve added, it stayed a fast-paced game. again, they’re keeping the core like it it.
>
> But 343i does not keep the core of Halo the same. that’s why the population is dropping.
> it wasn’t because of sprint OR AA’s OR custom loadouts OR perks.
> it was because of all of it.
>
> the changes & additions are simply affecting the core too deep & making Halo feel like a completely different Game.
> that’s not necessarily a bad thing, don’t get me wrong.
> but that’s not the key to longevity.
>
> Halo changed a lot from CE to 3, but the population kept going up, not down.
> because the additions didn’t affected the core. THAT was “evolution”.
> Halo 3 is almost completely different from CE, yet it did feel right, it felt like Halo.
>
> that’s why him, me & a lot of others Veterans don’t like the new changes.
> they’re not simply aesthetic, they’re affecting literally everything.
> the map-design, the gameplay, the flow of the game…like he perfectly explained,
> it’s just too much sugar.
>
> and as long as 343i doesn’t realize this fact, the population will keep dropping.

That’s why I said play the beta and don’t pre order. I’m not telling you to assume it’s going to be amazing from day one, I’m just saying wait on it. If you have the MCC then play the beta and judge it then. You don’t know if there actually is too much sugar or not. Personally, I think kill-times look too fast and I definitely will be waiting for a couple weeks to decide if I will buy the game. You act like I enjoyed pre-order letdowns like halo 4 and Dark souls 2.

12

> 2535452373904134;11:
> > 2533274886490718;9:
> > > 2535452373904134;5:
> > > I believe evolution is a necessary thing for a video franchise to evolve because, unlike cookies, people only need to buy a videogame once to enjoy the experience and stagnancy in a series will result in people complaining and moving to “fresher” games.
> > > However, there is such a thing as evolution in the wrong direction, which can take the population drop to light speed. Evolution needs to compliment and elevate things that made the game great, not turn it into something else. (unless it’s a spin-off)
> > > Also, appearances can be deceiving, as something that looks totally different can still keep the core experience intact, while also providing a “fresh” take on the series.
> > >
> > > TL;DR Basically, don’t judge the gameplay footage as good or bad yet, and don’t use “evolution” as a good or bad word yet. It could be either really.
> > > Play the beta and don’t pre-order.
> >
> >
> >
> > that’s the exactly same thing people said about H4 and we all know how it ended.
> > people should get a wordbook & look again what “evolving” actually means.
> > he’s right, no matter if you believe it or not. that’s not opinion, that’s fact.
> > i’ve said it before, i’ll say it again. adding sprint and ads to Halo is like removing sprint & ADS from CoD.
> > change for the sake of changing never ends well. heck, why do you people think CoD is successfull ?
> > because they keep the core as it always was. CoD was a always a fast-paced game & no matter how many gimmicks
> > they’ve added, it stayed a fast-paced game. again, they’re keeping the core like it it.
> >
> > But 343i does not keep the core of Halo the same. that’s why the population is dropping.
> > it wasn’t because of sprint OR AA’s OR custom loadouts OR perks.
> > it was because of all of it.
> >
> > the changes & additions are simply affecting the core too deep & making Halo feel like a completely different Game.
> > that’s not necessarily a bad thing, don’t get me wrong.
> > but that’s not the key to longevity.
> >
> > Halo changed a lot from CE to 3, but the population kept going up, not down.
> > because the additions didn’t affected the core. THAT was “evolution”.
> > Halo 3 is almost completely different from CE, yet it did feel right, it felt like Halo.
> >
> > that’s why him, me & a lot of others Veterans don’t like the new changes.
> > they’re not simply aesthetic, they’re affecting literally everything.
> > the map-design, the gameplay, the flow of the game…like he perfectly explained,
> > it’s just too much sugar.
> >
> > and as long as 343i doesn’t realize this fact, the population will keep dropping.
>
>
> That’s why I said play the beta and don’t pre order. I’m not telling you to assume it’s going to be amazing from day one, I’m just saying wait on it. If you have the MCC then play the beta and judge it then. You don’t know if there actually is too much sugar or not. Personally, I think kill-times look too fast and I definitely will be waiting for a couple weeks to decide if I will buy the game. You act like I enjoyed pre-order letdowns like halo 4 and Dark souls 2.

yeah, just that playing the beta won’t help our cause. i’ve heard somewhere, that H5G is to 50% completed.
heck, even if the majority wouldn’t like the new additions, they won’t change it because they would have to start from scratch
and they sure as hell won’t do this.
like i said, people told the same things about H4, “just wait until you played it yourself, maybe the changes won’t actually change much”
and stuff like that but when we got to play it, it was already too late & population dropped so low like never before.

13

> 2533274912984822;6:
> Bypassing the world filter is grounds for getting this thing locked, especially in the title.
>
> Reported.

You people make me laugh… Playing games that people kill each other with grenades, machine guns and canons, but getting offended when someone write “Bul ShT”. Continue your pointless, not credible cruisade, if it makes you happy…

:wink:

14

But the beta costs no money. Hate on it then. Heck, be super critical with all the things you dislike and decide right then and there if you will give it a chance or scrap it. All these negative threads are justified and show 343i just how high the stakes are, but never pass up a free beta.

15

> 2535422112705145;4:
> Halo is about movement in and out of combat. They are adding more movement options. Seems like evolution to me.

Wrong. The game is about the entire experience from the music to the audio effects to the gameplay within the campaign and multiplayer. Halo is supposed to feel like a PC game made for console. That just isn’t the case anymore. Having energy shields doesn’t stand out. Having a stupid new game mode that you can recreate in Halo 1 2 and 3 doesn’t make the game better. The game is getting worse and 343 doesn’t even know what they are doing wrong. They are likely convinced that the game will sell and are complacent in that. Look where that game philosophy brought them…

16

Let me understand this. Halo, an arena style game, is abandoning the class based mechanics, it aquired in Reach and H4, in favor of arena style mechanics this is a bad thing?

Halo went off course trying to be a classed based shooter. Its gone back to being an arena shooter. Thats good.

As a player from the very begining who has seen and played other arena games before the mass extiction of the genre caused by H2. I say i like the change. H5 looks like a proper arena style game.

It is better to fail being true to what you are and staying your path than to suceed in anothers.

17

I’m happy with the way HALO 5 is shaping up. That is all. Good day

18

> 2533274803503310;15:
> > 2535422112705145;4:
> > Halo is about movement in and out of combat. They are adding more movement options. Seems like evolution to me.
>
>
> Wrong. The game is about the entire experience from the music to the audio effects to the gameplay within the campaign and multiplayer. Halo is supposed to feel like a PC game made for console. That just isn’t the case anymore. Having energy shields doesn’t stand out. Having a stupid new game mode that you can recreate in Halo 1 2 and 3 doesn’t make the game better. The game is getting worse and 343 doesn’t even know what they are doing wrong. They are likely convinced that the game will sell and are complacent in that. Look where that game philosophy brought them…

And it doesn’t help the community doesn’t really know what it wants. All I’ve really seen is vague, “Make it like the old games” comments that don’t explain what they mean. Halo 1 plays different than Halo 2 and Halo 2 plays differently than Halo 3. Make it like the old games? Does that mean health packs should return because Halo 1 had them? If people are worried about the skill gap, is Halo 2 the smart choice since it gunplay and melee hold your hand with hitspan and melee lunges as opposed to the more effort Halo 1 had? Should equipment come back since Halo 3 had them and evidently anything in the previous games was perfect?

People got used to dual wielding despite it being called a gimmick by plenty of Halo fans and vehicle boarding, yet Spartan Abilities make people not want to give an effort?

19

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/stop-criticizing-halo-5-gj-to-343i/22812996-903f-450f-85be-31f1acc1d249/posts?page=1#post4

coff coff

20

It evolved ever since Halo 2 brah

/thread