The IRON SKULL Dilema

For those of you who are unaware, the Iron Skull eliminates checkpoints in missions. In other words, if you’re playing solo, and you die, rather than reverting to the previous checkpoint you are forced to restart the mission. Co-op is different of course. If one member of your team dies, then you your whole team goes back to just the previous checkpoint.

The game also includes a feature known as “Save & Quit”. This allows the player to save his or her progress and return to the mission at a later time without leaving the Xbox powered on.

Here’s the deal, however. When you activate the Iron Skull, then Save & Quit in the mission, it takes you back to the previous checkpoint rather than the beginning of the mission. When this happens, it pretty much cancels out the effects of the Iron Skull and makes it pointless. This has been an issue since Halo 3, and oddly enough, it has yet to be corrected.

I am proposing that for future Halo games, when Iron is enabled, the ability to Save & Quit should be disabled. This way, it can be used as intended without lazier players trying to skip around the system.

What do you all think? And yes I will be posting this in the Bungie forums as well.

Thanks for your time, folks!

as much as i hate the skull i agree that it needs to be fixed. take out the ‘Save and Quit’ option and replace it with ‘Quit’, then it will warn you that ‘You will have to restart the mission if you perform this action’.

LMAO. I clicked on this thread before I realised who posted it!

But yes, you’re absolutely right Tyrant: Iron needs to be fixed.

The solution I would propose would be to have a toggle in the menus somewhere to disable the effects of iron mid-way through a mission if you so desire. But if you do this, the stats report back as having never used Iron.

Thanks, both of you, for the feedback! I wish people felt the same way on b.net. We’re losing in that thread :stuck_out_tongue: lol

Hehe! Tyrant posting!
I guess I agree with you.

Link to b.net version: http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=64381071

Interesting responses :stuck_out_tongue:

Iron isn’t really a factor in most levels anyway, but it makes cheap deaths that much more frustrating. I know any level including a Rail-shooter segment (Tip of the spear, Exodus) are annoying as heck because the AI is such a terrible driver (Oh, we’re in a Falcon, an extremely agile and powerful vehicle. Let’s stay completely still in the middle of an anti-air field!)

> Iron isn’t really a factor in most levels anyway, but it makes cheap deaths that much more frustrating. I know any level including a Rail-shooter segment (Tip of the spear, Exodus) are annoying as heck because the AI is such a terrible driver (Oh, we’re in a Falcon, an extremely agile and powerful vehicle. Let’s stay completely still in the middle of an anti-air field!)

It removes the point of having the Iron skull.
Do you see?

> Iron isn’t really a factor in most levels anyway, but it makes cheap deaths that much more frustrating. I know any level including a Rail-shooter segment (Tip of the spear, Exodus) are annoying as heck because the AI is such a terrible driver (Oh, we’re in a Falcon, an extremely agile and powerful vehicle. Let’s stay completely still in the middle of an anti-air field!)

Well, yea, but that’s why it’s a challenge. Obviously you don’t have to play with it on when you’re just fooling around in the game or just want to play the campaign normally. It’s intended to be there for the folks who want to add a little more UMPH to their gameplay :slight_smile:

No, I mean it doesn’t change the gameplay at all. I’ve played through games with Iron (along with other skulls enabled). The enemies don’t get smarter, the damage isn’t affected. It’s just a bigger punishment for death. But when you get killed because of cheap things like “you’re stuck in one place because the AI is a moron” it’s just a stupid and frustrating thing. My friend and I got stuck on the rail shooter on Tip on LASO for a good twenty minutes because of all the friggen Anti-Air. The rest of the campaign was relatively devoid of KIAs.

> No, I mean it doesn’t change the gameplay at all. I’ve played through games with Iron (along with other skulls enabled). The enemies don’t get smarter, the damage isn’t affected. It’s just a bigger punishment for death. But when you get killed because of cheap things like “you’re stuck in one place because the AI is a moron” it’s just a stupid and frustrating thing. My friend and I got stuck on the rail shooter on Tip on LASO for a good twenty minutes because of all the friggen Anti-Air. The rest of the campaign was relatively devoid of KIAs.

Then what’s the point of even having the skull?

> > No, I mean it doesn’t change the gameplay at all. I’ve played through games with Iron (along with other skulls enabled). The enemies don’t get smarter, the damage isn’t affected. It’s just a bigger punishment for death. But when you get killed because of cheap things like “you’re stuck in one place because the AI is a moron” it’s just a stupid and frustrating thing. My friend and I got stuck on the rail shooter on Tip on LASO for a good twenty minutes because of all the friggen Anti-Air. The rest of the campaign was relatively devoid of KIAs.
>
> Then what’s the point of even having the skull?

It punishes poor planning. It’s a good skull to teach caution and deliberate gameplay. But in parts like I mentioned above, it’s just an added annoyance/frustration rather than an actual factor.

> > > No, I mean it doesn’t change the gameplay at all. I’ve played through games with Iron (along with other skulls enabled). The enemies don’t get smarter, the damage isn’t affected. It’s just a bigger punishment for death. But when you get killed because of cheap things like “you’re stuck in one place because the AI is a moron” it’s just a stupid and frustrating thing. My friend and I got stuck on the rail shooter on Tip on LASO for a good twenty minutes because of all the friggen Anti-Air. The rest of the campaign was relatively devoid of KIAs.
> >
> > Then what’s the point of even having the skull?
>
> It punishes poor planning. It’s a good skull to teach caution and deliberate gameplay. But in parts like I mentioned above, it’s just an added annoyance/frustration rather than an actual factor.

And then how can it be judged when it’s not “fair”?

Yes, i hated all the people who boasted on B.net about using it to get the LASO challenges.

Sure, why not. I mean, at the end of the day, if you really, really need to quit, then turning off the Xbox will suffice.

> as much as i hate the skull i agree that it needs to be fixed. take out the ‘Save and Quit’ option and replace it with ‘Quit’, then it will warn you that ‘You will have to restart the mission if you perform this action’.

This is absolutely the best way to deal with that. Seconded.

> > > > No, I mean it doesn’t change the gameplay at all. I’ve played through games with Iron (along with other skulls enabled). The enemies don’t get smarter, the damage isn’t affected. It’s just a bigger punishment for death. But when you get killed because of cheap things like “you’re stuck in one place because the AI is a moron” it’s just a stupid and frustrating thing. My friend and I got stuck on the rail shooter on Tip on LASO for a good twenty minutes because of all the friggen Anti-Air. The rest of the campaign was relatively devoid of KIAs.
> > >
> > > Then what’s the point of even having the skull?
> >
> > It punishes poor planning. It’s a good skull to teach caution and deliberate gameplay. But in parts like I mentioned above, it’s just an added annoyance/frustration rather than an actual factor.
>
> And then how can it be judged when it’s not “fair”?

When you have zero control over your movement and can’t change the way you approach a situation. If you were to get killed by an Elite Hero, for example, you could adjust your strategy and try a different tactic. In the rail-shooter parts, you have no choice but to pray that this time, the AI doesn’t kill you. You have to rely entirely on luck for these parts.

this idea would not work with levels that are too long/hard to be completed on LASO difficulty in one day/playthrough. Using an xbox for too long each day to complete a hard difficulty iron skull mission without being able to save and quit and carry on from that point another day but instead doing it all in 1 day can be bad for your eyes (staring at tv too long).
So for people who like to take their time with LASO’s, for example, without speeding through in only an hour or 2, leaving the save and quit feature in would be beneficial.

> Yes, i hated all the people who boasted on B.net about using it to get the LASO challenges.

Why does it matter to you if someone uses an exploit that Bungie has never fixed to pass a LASO challenge? I wouldn’t have beaten any of the LASO missions without it. The payout in cR isn’t worth the effort and frustration.

Sure, you can say “well it’s not hard for me.” Keep in mind, I’m not you.

> In the rail-shooter parts, you have no choice but to pray that this time, the AI doesn’t kill you. You have to rely entirely on luck for these parts.

Then you’re probably just not good enough. They’re some of the least death-heavy sections in those levels.

> this idea would not work with levels that are too long/hard to be completed on LASO difficulty in one day/playthrough.

I have never seen a successful solo LASO run go more than 2 1/2 hours. If it is honestly taking you more than that, you’re going about it all wrong and should practice more.

If you’re in co-op well, I don’t know what to say.

> Why does it matter to you if someone uses an exploit that Bungie has never fixed to pass a LASO challenge?

Because it cheapens the challenge. No-Deaths is an intended consequence in solo.

Removing Blind did too, but, ah well.

That’s why the term ‘Mythic difficulty’ was coined for no-death, no saves LASO. What Tyrant is asking for, in a way, is that LASO completely, unrefutedly, lives up to it’s promised level of difficulty, without needing saved films to check that people didn’t cheese it.

> The payout in cR isn’t worth the effort and frustration

While this is true, that’s a different issue entirely.

Ideally, there should have been a skull that made co-op deaths revert to the start of the mission as well. co-op LASO is comparatively very easy.