The interaction between Banished and UNSC

Games Halo Wars Series
1

UNSC > Banished and I doubt that the next patch will change that. While Banished has a pretty strong late game, the problem lies in getting there, because UNSC dominates the early and mid game. Let me explain.

This has mostly to do with marines imo. They are strong throughout all stages of the game.

Marines + spartan opener is insane. Spartan slam + grenades make short work of upgraded scouts and suicide grunts are irrelevant if the UNSC player knows how to micro. This is especially worse with Cutter.

In the mid game, we have the borderline broken CT marines. Yea, they’ll get a dps nerf in the next patch but it’s problematic that their hp remains untouched. CT marines with gales are extremely tanky and very hard to stop as Banished because they effectively kill their counters. Plus, they are easy to spam.

Rangers, which are supposed to hard counter infantry, die way too fast, are expensive and don’t do much damage.
Sure, Rangers will receive a dps buff, but the buff is minimal and probably won’t change much, given how fragile and squishy they are.

The fact that not even marauders can really handle CT marines pop for pop speaks for itself. The only real counter against UNSC infantry balls is marauders + rangers, which is too much of an investment only to counter core infantry.

Next thing is: snipers are getting buffed against heroes. Banished heroes are already pretty weak early game (with the exception of Arbiter). A further buff to snipers vs heroes will make them completely useless in T1, while Banished don’t have access to rangers before T2. This creates a heavy imbalance between UNSC and Banished because it limits the latter’s options for the early game.

Another problem is turtling. Siege turrets and kodiaks make ground forces irrelevant, especially on certain maps with certain leaders. No banished leader is able to turtle that effectively. Pavium is getting nerfed and Atriox has been nerfed to the ground. Cloaking and shield gens are receiving nerfs as well.
Siege turrets will get a slight damage reduction, but Serina and Anders remain untouched. This concerns me tbh. Anyone who ever played them on Sentry knows what I mean.

Let me say that I’m glad that the devs are approaching things carefully without 300% buffing stuff. But personally, I think more drastic changes are needed to help the Banished and bring them more in line with UNSC. I see no reason to play Banished anymore tbh, and this is definitely not how the meta should be.

Please note that these are just my observations. I haven’t done any in depth testing and I don’t claim to be 100% accurate. Also, I’m only talking about 1v1 here.

Edited like 10 times because I accidently submitted this post too early…

2

Shrapnel Choppers do everything marines do and better. Plus they double as fast scout vehicles.

3

> 2533274852319616;2:
> Shrapnel Choppers do everything marines do and better. Plus they double as fast scout vehicles.

No they don’t. They suck against air, vehicles, and buildings, and their special ability hurts them. Oh, and they’re a good deal more expensive, too. And CT Marines beat them easily.

4

> 2533274792776027;3:
> > 2533274852319616;2:
> > Shrapnel Choppers do everything marines do and better. Plus they double as fast scout vehicles.
>
> No they don’t. They suck against air, vehicles, and buildings, and their special ability hurts them. Oh, and they’re a good deal more expensive, too.

Did you even read the OP?

The beginning stages of the game choppers > marines.

5

> 2533274852319616;4:
> > 2533274792776027;3:
> > > 2533274852319616;2:
> > > Shrapnel Choppers do everything marines do and better. Plus they double as fast scout vehicles.
> >
> > No they don’t. They suck against air, vehicles, and buildings, and their special ability hurts them. Oh, and they’re a good deal more expensive, too.
>
> Did you even read the OP?
>
> The beginning stages of the game choppers > marines.

Choppers > marines as long as they don’t have grenades. And even if you manage to take out their marines with mass choppers, you’ll have a hard time transitioning to the mid game while the UNSC player can easily recover with marines + gales.

6

Playing 1v1 as Banished early game is brutal. The only advantage the Banished have is their units are much more flexible, but with the CT Marines and Nightingales that flexibility is a curse sometimes. My suggestion is play Shipmaster and teleport suicide grunts into the enemy’s army of Marines.

7

> 2535433644365164;6:
> Playing 1v1 as Banished early game is brutal. The only advantage the Banished have is their units are much more flexible, but with the CT Marines and Nightingales that flexibility is a curse sometimes. My suggestion is play Shipmaster and teleport suicide grunts into the enemy’s army of Marines.

But it’s worth it as the banished have a better late game

8

Just gotta sui + grunt with mine spam and pray my dude. Hopefully spartans wont be unkillable anymore at T2 but well see.

9

Shrouds are far to expensive and flimsy to help in anyway when the siege turrets start firing. I would even argue that UNSC has a better tech 3 thanks to vulture/nightengale. All you need to do as UNSC is survive any rushes, build artillery, and enjoy. On top of that snipers are getting buffed against hero units. This means that it will be much harder for banished to hero open against UNSC since the ranger buff won’t matter until tech 2. At least banished players can hide behind there buffed turrets while getting screwed at every other stage of the game.

10

> 2533274843762975;9:
> Shrouds are far to expensive and flimsy to help in anyway when the siege turrets start firing. I would even argue that UNSC has a better tech 3 thanks to vulture/nightengale. All you need to do as UNSC is survive any rushes, build artillery, and enjoy. On top of that snipers are getting buffed against hero units. This means that it will be much harder for banished to hero open against UNSC since the ranger buff won’t matter until tech 2. At least banished players can hide behind there buffed turrets while getting screwed at every other stage of the game.

Shrouds are better in swarms or like when you have 7 of them and banished turrets aren’t good unsc are way better and while banished have a weak early game typically they have a better late game in my opinion

11

Just want to say on the rangers. They are not meant to be a front-line soldier like grunt squads. While they can be mixed with a typical army, it is actually best to have them on the sidelines. keep them moving on the outskirts of your army and have them pick off high-value targets.

Better yet if you have shipmaster and use his honor guard with your rangers to hit bigger targets. Rangers are pretty much supposed to be treated like a special operation unit. Squads that are sent out to hunt down the enemy heros and wipe them out.

12

> 2535408720103530;10:
> > 2533274843762975;9:
> > Shrouds are far to expensive and flimsy to help in anyway when the siege turrets start firing. I would even argue that UNSC has a better tech 3 thanks to vulture/nightengale. All you need to do as UNSC is survive any rushes, build artillery, and enjoy. On top of that snipers are getting buffed against hero units. This means that it will be much harder for banished to hero open against UNSC since the ranger buff won’t matter until tech 2. At least banished players can hide behind there buffed turrets while getting screwed at every other stage of the game.
>
> Shrouds are better in swarms or like when you have 7 of them and banished turrets aren’t good unsc are way better and while banished have a weak early game typically they have a better late game in my opinion

I was referring to banished turrets getting a buff and that’s really all there getting. Also are you crazy building 7 shrouds? That’s 35 pop and about 2800 supplies for units that will poorly block siege turrets? Not to mention when I go to actually fight an army the shrouds will be blocking combat tech rockets, cyclopses, wolverines, snipers, instead of blocking the siege turrets. So even if you build 7 of them your still getting nuked by barrages of artillery once a real engagement starts.

13

> 2533274843762975;12:
> > 2535408720103530;10:
> > > 2533274843762975;9:
> > >
> >
> > Shrouds are better in swarms or like when you have 7 of them and banished turrets aren’t good unsc are way better and while banished have a weak early game typically they have a better late game in my opinion
>
> I was referring to banished turrets getting a buff and that’s really all there getting. Also are you crazy building 7 shrouds? That’s 35 pop and about 2800 supplies for units that will poorly block siege turrets? Not to mention when I go to actually fight an army the shrouds will be blocking combat tech rockets, cyclopses, wolverines, snipers, instead of blocking the siege turrets. So even if you build 7 of them your still getting nuked by barrages of artillery once a real engagement starts.

This is sadly true, learned from doing just this. They will only block so many before the rest of the barrage hits them and your army.

14

> 2533274806469514;13:
> > 2533274843762975;12:
> > > 2535408720103530;10:
> > > > 2533274843762975;9:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Shrouds are better in swarms or like when you have 7 of them and banished turrets aren’t good unsc are way better and while banished have a weak early game typically they have a better late game in my opinion
> >
> > I was referring to banished turrets getting a buff and that’s really all there getting. Also are you crazy building 7 shrouds? That’s 35 pop and about 2800 supplies for units that will poorly block siege turrets? Not to mention when I go to actually fight an army the shrouds will be blocking combat tech rockets, cyclopses, wolverines, snipers, instead of blocking the siege turrets. So even if you build 7 of them your still getting nuked by barrages of artillery once a real engagement starts.
>
> This is sadly true, learned from doing just this. They will only block so many before the rest of the barrage hits them and your army.

They’re also made of paper too and there cloak is getting nerfed. There counter is also getting a cost reduction so there will be more AA on the field. It’s not looking good for banished vs UNSC

15

> 2533274843762975;14:
> > 2533274806469514;13:
> > > 2533274843762975;12:
> > > > 2535408720103530;10:
> > > > > 2533274843762975;9:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Shrouds are better in swarms or like when you have 7 of them and banished turrets aren’t good unsc are way better and while banished have a weak early game typically they have a better late game in my opinion
>
> They’re also made of paper too and there cloak is getting nerfed. There counter is also getting a cost reduction so there will be more AA on the field. It’s not looking good for banished vs UNSC

Well if it becomes too bad they will just fix things.

16

> 2533274806469514;15:
> > 2533274843762975;14:
> > > 2533274806469514;13:
> > > > 2533274843762975;12:
> > > > > 2535408720103530;10:
> > > > > > 2533274843762975;9:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Shrouds are better in swarms or like when you have 7 of them and banished turrets aren’t good unsc are way better and while banished have a weak early game typically they have a better late game in my opinion
> >
> > They’re also made of paper too and there cloak is getting nerfed. There counter is also getting a cost reduction so there will be more AA on the field. It’s not looking good for banished vs UNSC
>
> Well if it becomes too bad they will just fix things.

Ehhh there’s a bit of history with patches that have unforseen consequences and even some with obvious consequences (300 percent anvil round buff… I still flinch when I see forgehogs)

17

> 2533274806469514;11:
> Just want to say on the rangers. They are not meant to be a front-line soldier like grunt squads. While they can be mixed with a typical army, it is actually best to have them on the sidelines. keep them moving on the outskirts of your army and have them pick off high-value targets.
>
> Better yet if you have shipmaster and use his honor guard with your rangers to hit bigger targets. Rangers are pretty much supposed to be treated like a special operation unit. Squads that are sent out to hunt down the enemy heros and wipe them out.

Sure, they’re not meant to be frontline units, but unlike snipers you need to mass them to effectively counter infantry which makes it difficult to keep them at the back of your army and is a serious drain on your eco.
Plus with all the stuns and speed buffs that most UNSC leaders have it’s almost impossible to micro them away from the enemy.

18

> 2533274843762975;12:
> > 2535408720103530;10:
> > > 2533274843762975;9:
> > > Shrouds are far to expensive and flimsy to help in anyway when the siege turrets start firing. I would even argue that UNSC has a better tech 3 thanks to vulture/nightengale. All you need to do as UNSC is survive any rushes, build artillery, and enjoy. On top of that snipers are getting buffed against hero units. This means that it will be much harder for banished to hero open against UNSC since the ranger buff won’t matter until tech 2. At least banished players can hide behind there buffed turrets while getting screwed at every other stage of the game.
> >
> > Shrouds are better in swarms or like when you have 7 of them and banished turrets aren’t good unsc are way better and while banished have a weak early game typically they have a better late game in my opinion
>
> I was referring to banished turrets getting a buff and that’s really all there getting. Also are you crazy building 7 shrouds? That’s 35 pop and about 2800 supplies for units that will poorly block siege turrets? Not to mention when I go to actually fight an army the shrouds will be blocking combat tech rockets, cyclopses, wolverines, snipers, instead of blocking the siege turrets. So even if you build 7 of them your still getting nuked by barrages of artillery once a real engagement starts.

If you play as shipmaster you can get a passive ability that reduces the cost of shrouds and mass cloaking and it improves the shrouds cloaking ability and shrouds take up 4 population not 5 and when you have a lot then of course artillery sometimes won’t even hit you

19

> 2535408720103530;18:
> > 2533274843762975;12:
> > > 2535408720103530;10:
> > > > 2533274843762975;9:
> > > > Shrouds are far to expensive and flimsy to help in anyway when the siege turrets start firing. I would even argue that UNSC has a better tech 3 thanks to vulture/nightengale. All you need to do as UNSC is survive any rushes, build artillery, and enjoy. On top of that snipers are getting buffed against hero units. This means that it will be much harder for banished to hero open against UNSC since the ranger buff won’t matter until tech 2. At least banished players can hide behind there buffed turrets while getting screwed at every other stage of the game.
> > >
> > > Shrouds are better in swarms or like when you have 7 of them and banished turrets aren’t good unsc are way better and while banished have a weak early game typically they have a better late game in my opinion
> >
> > I was referring to banished turrets getting a buff and that’s really all there getting. Also are you crazy building 7 shrouds? That’s 35 pop and about 2800 supplies for units that will poorly block siege turrets? Not to mention when I go to actually fight an army the shrouds will be blocking combat tech rockets, cyclopses, wolverines, snipers, instead of blocking the siege turrets. So even if you build 7 of them your still getting nuked by barrages of artillery once a real engagement starts.
>
> If you play as shipmaster you can get a passive ability that reduces the cost of shrouds and mass cloaking and it improves the shrouds cloaking ability and shrouds take up 4 population not 5 and when you have a lot then of course artillery sometimes won’t even hit you

No matter how big the Shroud’s cloaking field is, it’ll be pretty much useless once the buff to detection range happens.

Heck, cloaking in general will be practically useless…

20

> 2533274978050668;17:
> > 2533274806469514;11:
> > Just want to say on the rangers. They are not meant to be a front-line soldier like grunt squads. While they can be mixed with a typical army, it is actually best to have them on the sidelines. keep them moving on the outskirts of your army and have them pick off high-value targets.
> >
> > Better yet if you have shipmaster and use his honor guard with your rangers to hit bigger targets. Rangers are pretty much supposed to be treated like a special operation unit. Squads that are sent out to hunt down the enemy heros and wipe them out.
>
> Sure, they’re not meant to be frontline units, but unlike snipers you need to mass them to effectively counter infantry which makes it difficult to keep them at the back of your army and is a serious drain on your eco.
> Plus with all the stuns and speed buffs that most UNSC leaders have it’s almost impossible to micro them away from the enemy.

Have come across that too, usually have half my rangers mixed with the army, with the enemy hopefully thinking that’s it. Meanwhile the other half snipe from the back and sides.