The Importance of Friendly Fire

I’ve heard people saying that friendly fire is just disabled for flighting and if that’s the case, this thread is basically pointless, but it should be said that friendly fire, is an important aspect of Halo’s sandbox that’s often taken for granted or considered an inconvenience. But it’s this inconvenience that controls the flow of combat by providing an incentive against grenade spam, and encourages careful use other weapons and tools in the sandbox, by some at least. Yes, it comes with it’s problems, like people betraying for power weapons and other forms of griefing, but like collision, it’s one of those gameplay quirks inherent to Halo that make its gameplay so timeless.

I like halo with friendly fire also

I agree, playing multiplayer with both friendly collisons and FF off honestly feels hallow. It’s like I’m playing an MMO. We are both fighting the same enemies but we don’t really affect each other. I thought the no collisions was a bug on the first flight, not going to lie.

Friendly collision definitely needs to come back. But I’m really not too keen on friendly fire returning especially when you have people who are betray trolls, or kill for power weapons. I’m not a fan of that garbage returning to infinite. But I understand how it can be important for skilled gameplay

I suspect that friendly fire has been disabled to accommodate a casual experience for the free-to-play. I would hope that the competitive arena will have it enabled.

> 2533274813051932;1:
> I’ve heard people saying that friendly fire is just disabled for flighting and if that’s the case, this thread is basically pointless, but it should be said that friendly fire, is an important aspect of Halo’s sandbox that’s often taken for granted or considered an inconvenience. But it’s this inconvenience that controls the flow of combat by providing an incentive against grenade spam, and encourages careful use other weapons and tools in the sandbox, by some at least. Yes, it comes with it’s problems, like people betraying for power weapons and other forms of griefing, but like collision, it’s one of those gameplay quirks inherent to Halo that make its gameplay so timeless.

I agree on the facts of grenade spam, and I want player COLLISION for trick jumps and stuff, but just because something is inherent to “classic” Halo doesn’t mean it’s good. Betraying is obnoxious and toxic, and just because it’s “inherent” to Halo doesn’t mean it should be a normal occurrence. Classic things aren’t always better, and that’s coming from a CE stan.

And no, I’m not dismissing your opinion. I respect it wholeheartedly. Just my 2 cents on the matter! :slight_smile:

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> I agree on the facts of grenade spam, and I want player COLLISION for trick jumps and stuff, but just because something is inherent to “classic” Halo doesn’t mean it’s good. Betraying is obnoxious and toxic, and just because it’s “inherent” to Halo doesn’t mean it should be a normal occurrence. Classic things aren’t always better, and that’s coming from a CE stan.
>
> And no, I’m not dismissing your opinion. I respect it wholeheartedly. Just my 2 cents on the matter! :slight_smile:

I think in nearly all circumstances that something is criticised, especially in regards to Infinites decisions is because it is a worse outcome. It being commonplace in all other Halo games is something that strengthens the argument as it shows the decision is unwarranted and alien to the franchise. Whether lack of friendly fire, lack of friendly collision, unzoomed sniper accuracy, hud, medals or the 50+ other issues which aren’t bugs but intentional design decisions, they’re criticised for being out of place and negative not either or.

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> > I agree on the facts of grenade spam, and I want player COLLISION for trick jumps and stuff, but just because something is inherent to “classic” Halo doesn’t mean it’s good. Betraying is obnoxious and toxic, and just because it’s “inherent” to Halo doesn’t mean it should be a normal occurrence. Classic things aren’t always better, and that’s coming from a CE stan.
> >
> > And no, I’m not dismissing your opinion. I respect it wholeheartedly. Just my 2 cents on the matter! :slight_smile:
>
> I think in nearly all circumstances that something is criticised, especially in regards to Infinites decisions is because it is a worse outcome. It being commonplace in all other Halo games is something that strengthens the argument as it shows the decision is unwarranted and alien to the franchise. Whether lack of friendly fire, lack of friendly collision, unzoomed sniper accuracy, hud, medals or the 50+ other issues which aren’t bugs but intentional design decisions, they’re criticised for being out of place and negative not either or.

While I agree that some things need to be criticized, I feel as though the removal of friendly fire specifically has more positives than negatives. I cannot say that about other decisions they’ve made. Some things seriously bug me that are small and inconsequential such as the appearance of the plasma pistol, but I am sick of being betrayed and not being able to be kicked. If it is reintroduced, it needs work. Maybe make it so 2 betrayals with certain weapons or vehicles gets you booted, but if you land a sniper headshot or melee on a teammate leads to an immediate boot. This isn’t perfect but I feel like it may solve some of the issues if it’s done RIGHT.

Classic competitive fan here: I agree on principle and if I hadn’t played the game I would 100% agree.

However, after actually playing the game, just the way the maps are, the guns, the grenades, etc, honestly I’m glad that FF is off. I am not sure why exactly, but I was acting as if it was on most of the flight and it was just really frustrating.

I think it’s because of the map design (have very slim sight hallways/walkways) and starting weapon design (pistol and AR crap at mid range and beyond) that there is rarely a time that you’d just constantly be damaging your team mates. Everyone is just always so close together in battle. Turning FF on would be a nightmare given the way everything else about the game functions IMO.

Competitive will almost certainly be BR starts with FF on so if you are against it solely on principle and that it’s “not Halo” then you’ll probably feel more inclined toward that anyway.

While I acknowledge that being betrayed for a power weapon sucks, I don’t think it warrants the removal of friendly fire. Removing it causes a ripple effect that changes how the game plays. If you’re in a close quarters battle, there’s nothing to stop an enemy player from spamming grenades or rockets to kill you because they know their teammate who you were just about to kill will be perfectly fine. Or if there’s multiple people in a cluster, friendlies and enemies, a player can come in with one big hammer swing and wipe out all the enemies while the friendlies can just walk away. Or one player can just spam grenades in a doorway to trap enemy players behind it while their teammates charge through while taking zero damage. In our limited time with the flights, I’ve already experienced every one of these scenarios, some more than once.

Without friendly fire, sloppy play is rewarded instead of punished. No longer do players have to make smart calls, they can just spray bullets and toss as many grenades as they want with zero consequences. This is especially detrimental given the quick ttk of infinite. If it’s not in social I can live with it, but I absolutely do feel like friendly fire needs to be there for ranked play.

Unless they are handing out strict bans for constant betrayals I’d rather not have it in. Makes no difference to me but I hate trolls in competitive I’ve had it in the past where one of my team would wait till I got into a gun fight and then shoot em repeatedly helping who I am shooting at. It’s most frustrating.

> 2533274813051932;1:
> I’ve heard people saying that friendly fire is just disabled for flighting and if that’s the case, this thread is basically pointless, but it should be said that friendly fire, is an important aspect of Halo’s sandbox that’s often taken for granted or considered an inconvenience. But it’s this inconvenience that controls the flow of combat by providing an incentive against grenade spam, and encourages careful use other weapons and tools in the sandbox, by some at least. Yes, it comes with it’s problems, like people betraying for power weapons and other forms of griefing, but like collision, it’s one of those gameplay quirks inherent to Halo that make its gameplay so timeless.

I agree. Betraying is annoying, but that’s because Halo has always had a poor ban system. H4 didn’t have FF in some cases, and that’s how he got Sticky Det. suicide bombers.

> 2670661386182421;10:
> While I acknowledge that being betrayed for a power weapon sucks, I don’t think it warrants the removal of friendly fire. Removing it causes a ripple effect that changes how the game plays. If you’re in a close quarters battle, there’s nothing to stop an enemy player from spamming grenades or rockets to kill you because they know their teammate who you were just about to kill will be perfectly fine. Or if there’s multiple people in a cluster, friendlies and enemies, a player can come in with one big hammer swing and wipe out all the enemies while the friendlies can just walk away. Or one player can just spam grenades in a doorway to trap enemy players behind it while their teammates charge through while taking zero damage. In our limited time with the flights, I’ve already experienced every one of these scenarios, some more than once.
>
> Without friendly fire, sloppy play is rewarded instead of punished. No longer do players have to make smart calls, they can just spray bullets and toss as many grenades as they want with zero consequences. This is especially detrimental given the quick ttk of infinite. If it’s not in social I can live with it, but I absolutely do feel like friendly fire needs to be there for ranked play.

Yep. No FF will make explosive more powerful. One of the easiest/most common counters to rockets is to get super close to the wielder or his teammate. This forces him to either use a safer weapon or risk killing himself or his friend.

Or think about area denial guns. Infinite has quite a few of these. Now you can just spam a territory with Ravager goo and let a teammate stand in it while enemies can’t even get close. (I know it’s not in the game that we know of), but consider H5’s splinter grenade. That think was the cause of so many accidental betrayals because of it be a lockdown type weapon. Just like H3’s equipment, it could help or hurt your team if used poorly. Now players won’t have to think about any of this outside of not killing themselves.

Edit: I didn’t even consider how hijacked hogs will work (Red driver and Blue gunner). Will the friendly take damage as you try to kill the hog and die with the enemy or will they survive the explosion and just live on?

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> > 2670661386182421;10:
> > While I acknowledge that being betrayed for a power weapon sucks, I don’t think it warrants the removal of friendly fire. Removing it causes a ripple effect that changes how the game plays. If you’re in a close quarters battle, there’s nothing to stop an enemy player from spamming grenades or rockets to kill you because they know their teammate who you were just about to kill will be perfectly fine. Or if there’s multiple people in a cluster, friendlies and enemies, a player can come in with one big hammer swing and wipe out all the enemies while the friendlies can just walk away. Or one player can just spam grenades in a doorway to trap enemy players behind it while their teammates charge through while taking zero damage. In our limited time with the flights, I’ve already experienced every one of these scenarios, some more than once.
> >
> > Without friendly fire, sloppy play is rewarded instead of punished. No longer do players have to make smart calls, they can just spray bullets and toss as many grenades as they want with zero consequences. This is especially detrimental given the quick ttk of infinite. If it’s not in social I can live with it, but I absolutely do feel like friendly fire needs to be there for ranked play.
>
> Yep. No FF will make explosive more powerful. One of the easiest/most common counters to rockets is to get super close to the wielder or his teammate. This forces him to either use a safer weapon or risk killing himself or his friend.
>
> Or think about area denial guns. Infinite has quite a few of these. Now you can just spam a territory with Ravager goo and let a teammate stand in it while enemies can’t even get close. (I know it’s not in the game that we know of), but consider H5’s splinter grenade. That think was the cause of so many accidental betrayals because of it be a lockdown type weapon. Just like H3’s equipment, it could help or hurt your team if used poorly. Now players won’t have to think about any of this outside of not killing themselves.

Yo, that Ravager goo idea is genius, I’m going to use it for the next flight :stuck_out_tongue:

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> > > > 2533274813051932;1:
> > > >
> > >
> > > I agree on the facts of grenade spam, and I want player COLLISION for trick jumps and stuff, but just because something is inherent to “classic” Halo doesn’t mean it’s good. Betraying is obnoxious and toxic, and just because it’s “inherent” to Halo doesn’t mean it should be a normal occurrence. Classic things aren’t always better, and that’s coming from a CE stan.
> > >
> > > And no, I’m not dismissing your opinion. I respect it wholeheartedly. Just my 2 cents on the matter! :slight_smile:
> >
> > I think in nearly all circumstances that something is criticised, especially in regards to Infinites decisions is because it is a worse outcome. It being commonplace in all other Halo games is something that strengthens the argument as it shows the decision is unwarranted and alien to the franchise. Whether lack of friendly fire, lack of friendly collision, unzoomed sniper accuracy, hud, medals or the 50+ other issues which aren’t bugs but intentional design decisions, they’re criticised for being out of place and negative not either or.
>
> While I agree that some things need to be criticized, I feel as though the removal of friendly fire specifically has more positives than negatives. I cannot say that about other decisions they’ve made. Some things seriously bug me that are small and inconsequential such as the appearance of the plasma pistol, but I am sick of being betrayed and not being able to be kicked. If it is reintroduced, it needs work. Maybe make it so 2 betrayals with certain weapons or vehicles gets you booted, but if you land a sniper headshot or melee on a teammate leads to an immediate boot. This isn’t perfect but I feel like it may solve some of the issues if it’s done RIGHT.

Basically just piggybacking off what Spartan blue 2 said I think this comes down to whether potential griefing or disruption to gameplay flow and style is a bigger issue. I don’t think it can be cleanly separated into social vs ranked as BTB will also be bothersome, i’d wager the lack of team splattering or accidently killing your team with explosions will make vehicle usage more stompy and unfun than it would otherwise be. Assuming 4v4, doubles and FFA are the only ranked playlists lack of friendly fire may also hinder swat, snipers and grifball more than help. I tend to find getting 2 betrayals in one game to be unlikely from my experience, three is once in a blue moon, mostly in BTB is it ever 2 or 3. For 4v4 I think the boot option should be there after 2nd betrayal for the rest of the game, possibly 3rd for BTB. There may be some scum tactics like cleaning up a weak teammate so it doesn’t count as a betrayal but i’m on the side that feels the change in inherent gameplay is a greater negative than the potential griefing.

> 2533274866989456;5:
> I suspect that friendly fire has been disabled to accommodate a casual experience for the free-to-play. I would hope that the competitive arena will have it enabled.

You may be right, but I think it’s something, like collision, that makes Halo as timelessly fun as it is. Casualising the game for FTP is just going to reduce the games longevity.

One hundred and forty seven percent, we need friendly fire and player collision back. FF adds risk in what you do, grenades’, power weapons, plus it is kind of of funny to accidentally headshot your body Clyde cause he walked in front of your sniper rifle. I do admit betraying for power weapons is annoying but i think it is worth it. And collision, is such a pivotal part of the game. I can tell countless stories of me playing reach, and trying to see how many Spartans we can can stack on each other.

I also like friendly fire, I even found the narrator talking funny. But in social mode I think it’s cool to be turned off, in competitive mode it would be interesting.

FF is literally the most exploited thing in the entire series and has been long overdue to be fixed

I think this would go a long way to fixing the grenade spam in this game- I can’t see much else you could do other then limiting people to 1 grenade of each of the 2 types you can carry but Halo’s always had a limit of at least 2 so it would feel weird but I seriously wanted it to be the case at points because of the ridiculous amount of grenade spam