The illusion of loadout weapons!

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

As we all know having loadout weapons with different functions really hurts Halo’s multiplayer, but still, people want to be able to choose their weapon.

I therefore propose we have the illusion of loadouts. Every loadout weapon will function the same but look different. You would however be able to choose between the AR, and Battle Rifle and pick a secondary pistol. The bullets could however have different color from each other, and the reload animation could also be different (It would take the same amount of time to complete every animation).

The weapons would however have the same scope range, aim assist, bullet magnetism, kill time etc and so on.

In the eyes of someone who just started to play the game you would have completely different weapons, and in eyes of someone who plays competitively, you would have almost complete balance. It would be perfect for everyone.

Remember that loadout weapons would include different forms of UNSC, Promethean and covenant weapon types.

2

I’d rather stick to weapon skins like we have now.

Also, the loadout system in Halo 4 is not entirely broken. Certain parts of it, like being able to select which Secondary weapon and Grenade type you want to spawn with, is what ends up breaking some of the gameplay. Good examples include PP/PGs making the chain hog an obese mongoose, and Boltshots making small maps a tad too powerful for a secondary weapon.

I’d rather they focus on the current weapons we got available instead of making illusions of different weapons. Even after the title update, there are still weapon imbalances within each group of weapons, such as the AR being a tad dominant compared to the Storm Rifle and Suppressor, and the BR having a bit of an advantage when it comes to kill times and reload time.

On top of that, it would be a pain to cycle through a bunch of filler, like we kinda do in Halo 4. If I want my medium ranged gun, I want it ASAP, not a while later.

I don’t think Halo needs “filler” to make it look like we have a large weapon pool. We never really had a large weapon size for each weapon type to begin with. Just sounds like a big waste of development time when they could focus on other things. :confused:

3

That’s pointless and redundant, and would solve nothing. I prefer the Covenant Carbine over the BR for the ability of Repetitive Suppresive Fire. By which I mean the RoF in combination with shots fired impairs enemy scoping, by either de-scope or flinch (depending on the game). This is a trait the Carbine holds above the other precision rifles. it may sound cheap, but the way the accuracy is handled on the Carbine and STK is it’s balancing factor. So why would I want a Covenant BR reskin? I like the BR for Grenade Combos as a burst can kill a shielded opponent via head-shot at certain shield levels. That is not why I like the carbine. Arena shooters (even ones with some initial weapon choice) are not supposed to have reskins. The DMR, LR, PP, BS perks and AAs were the problems with personal loadouts. their removal and simply giving us choice of:
Primaries
AR
BR
CC
SR

Secondaries
Magnum
Needle Pistol (Ideas for its functionality are everywhere, generally similar to the needle rifle)
SMG
Plasma Rifle

The Secondaries are often slightly inferior or better suited to different tasks to their primary counterpart, depending on the viewpoint of someone who agrees to this system. Personally would prefer the latter eg:
Magnum is much better at CQC and about equal at medium, but cannot do long range, the BR can do long range, but the magnum is better CQC

Needle Pistol holds similar to the Magnum/BR system, but as opposed to better suppresive fire, the NP is good for hitting unshielded opponents even without head-shots, as the RoF is the same as the carbine, but is only a 3 shot kill on health, due to Supercombine, as opposed to the carbine taking around 11 shot for no head-shot, the NP takes 9, at the same RoF, but again has range limitation compared to the CC.

The SMG would be better than the AR at extreme CQC, but not as good outside that, giving it an edge at that.

Plasma Rifles and Storm Rifles would have the stun feature of CE back, but the RoF for the PR is faster, but overheats quicker, and is better at CQC due to this, as you want to be in melee range to finish them off if the Rifle Fails to.

4

>

I think situational unbalance is a bad thing.

It would solve everything, and let people choose the weapon look they want.

5

To be honest, I don’t think that making 4 reskins of the same weapon would really do Loadouts any justice. In fact, that’s kind of the opposite of what I ever wanted from them.

My argument for Loadouts, is, and has always been, to adjust them so that they don’t alter the sandbox. What you’re proposing, in one way or another, would subtract from variety.

I know I’ve said this before, many times, that it doesn’t take reskins to achieve balance.

  • The Sniper Rifle and the Focus Rifle aren’t reskins, but are they balanced? Yes they are.
  • The Shotgun and the Energy Sword are about as far from reskins as you can get, but they’re both balanced with each other.
    Halo’s sandbox has always had specific niches, and generally a pair of weapons that behave differently, but are balanced, for each niche.

Now, I can agree with you that all weapons should have conistent specifications between each niche. However, the difference should be on how they deliver those specifications.

If I look at the relationship between the BR and the Carbine, who both have the same kill time and the same range and magazine size, they do their task very different from each other. You can get the exact same amount of damage done with the Carbine that you can with the BR, but it takes different forms of skill to do so:

  • The Carbine is best used with strafing and pacing your shots
  • The Battle Rifle is best used with being able to lead you shots and similar to the Carbine, you must also pace your shots.
    They’re the same kind of weapon, with the same damage and the same range, except they cater to two different forms of skill.

On the other hand, if I look at the Assault Rifle and the Plasma Repeater (I chose the Plasma Repeater over the Storm Rifle because the Plasma Repeater is more unique as a weapon), they have the same range, aim-assist, and damage, yet they deliver that lethality in different ways.

  • The Assault Rifle does more damage to health, can be burst fired to increase accuracy, and has a higher ROF than the Plasma Repeater.
  • The Plasma Repeater does more damage to sheilds, has slower projectiles, but increases in accuracy at the cost of ROF the longer it is shot.
    Again, there are different skills catered to between each weapon:
  • The Assault Rifle is better for people who like to outmaneuver their targets through jumping and orbiting (circling around your target).
  • The Plasma Repeater is better for people who like to strip their opponents shields and then jump in for the melee.

May I ask you, this next time:

Does it really take a reskin to achieve balance?

6

> >
>
> I think situational balance is a bad thing.
>
> It would solve everything, and let people choose the weapon look they want.

Couldn’t that instead be achieve through Weapon Skins and at the same time, not create a bloated and redundant sandbox?

7

@ xboxdigger 94

No it wouldn’t, because people who like some of the new/old weapons what be displeased with their removal/changes. Having their existence but in limited ways is far better than downright removal in most cases, this would be a said case. Armour Lock for example, however, despite that I believe it had potential to be balanced, but it would have required ALOT, had to go. it was so unpopular that it’s continued presence would have sparked fury, even in a very nerfed fashion.

Nerfing is better than reskin or removal. and the sheer amount of times this list has been posted just shows how much this is believed. 3x scopes on map, 2x and Automatics are Spawn weapons, as are sidearms and “SMG variants”.

This system mutually respects all parties, as it keeps all the weapons, balances loadouts, gives choice and returns old favourites.

8

I don’t think a solution like this would really work for anyone. To me, a person who would be fine with everyone spawning with the same weapons, it’d just be redundancy. Someone who wanted to be able to choose the weapon they will spawn with, on the other hand, would only feel cheated. I’m all for cosmetic customization, but I don’t like the idea of trying to fool people into thinking they actually have choice in such an insultingly obvious way.

9

> > >
> >
> > I think situational balance is a bad thing.
> >
> > It would solve everything, and let people choose the weapon look they want.
>
> Couldn’t that instead be achieve through Weapon Skins and at the same time, not create a bloated and redundant sandbox?

I meant situational unbalance, just to get that right.

We are only talking about load-outs weapons here. It would work the same as amour, with almost no situational unbalance. It would be the best of both worlds.

10

It is not the best of both worlds in anyway, as the “best” is different from player to player. Some may prefer being able to have something that fits their play-styles as the best thing, where others might prefer looks to actual utility of said weapon. your imposing YOUR opinion of the best of both worlds. The general consensus would probably have many in opposition, as Halo up until Halo 4 was largely against reskining completely.

11

> I don’t think a solution like this would really work for anyone. To me, a person who would be fine with everyone spawning with the same weapons, it’d just be redundancy. Someone who wanted to be able to choose the weapon they will spawn with, on the other hand, would only feel cheated. I’m all for cosmetic customization, but I don’t like the idea of trying to fool people into thinking they actually have choice in such an insultingly obvious way.

How much of a choice do you really have in Call of Duty? You may go into statistical differences but everyone knows it, you shoot (and hit) first, you win (at least most of the time).

12

> > > >
> > >
> > > I think situational balance is a bad thing.
> > >
> > > It would solve everything, and let people choose the weapon look they want.
> >
> > Couldn’t that instead be achieve through Weapon Skins and at the same time, not create a bloated and redundant sandbox?
>
> I meant situational unbalance, just to get that right.
>
> We are only talking about load-outs weapons here. It would work the same as amour, with almost no situational unbalance. It would be the best of both worlds.

Situational unbalance isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it is lessened by situational skills. That’s what I want from loadouts, a new form of skill that doesn’t splatter the others. The situational unbalance, however, is already lessened by a few weapon functions that I’ll point out:

  • In Halo 3, the BR could be effectively used in closer ranges by giving your opponent two full bursts and a melee attack - which would kill them. That right there lessens the situational unbalance between the Battle Rifle and the Assault Rifle/Plasma Repeater.
  • The Plasma Repeater’s accuracy increase that happens as the weapon is fired allows it to win against a BR or a Carbine at mid-range if you have better pacing and shot-leading skills than your opponent. Again, the situational unbalance is reduced.
  • The AR can be burst fired to allow it to effectively combat the BR and the Carbine at mid range, that’s been around since CE.
  • However, as far as I’m aware, there isn’t a niche-crossover for the Carbine. Perhaps it could use a similar “shots+melee” technique. A good implementation would be allowing 4 shots with a Carbine + a melee attack would result in a kill.
    Either way, the situational unbalance isn’t as significant as you may think it is across all weapons.
13

> > I don’t think a solution like this would really work for anyone. To me, a person who would be fine with everyone spawning with the same weapons, it’d just be redundancy. Someone who wanted to be able to choose the weapon they will spawn with, on the other hand, would only feel cheated. I’m all for cosmetic customization, but I don’t like the idea of trying to fool people into thinking they actually have choice in such an insultingly obvious way.
>
> How much of a choice do you really have in Call of Duty? You may go into statistical differences but everyone knows it, you shoot first, you win.

This is Halo, not Call of Duty. Weapon’s in Halo are supposed to be fairly unique, due to the numerous factions that have them. All weapons in CoD Multiplayer are made by Humans. so natuarly, they will feel similar. A game with Aliens such as Halo has to avoid said thing.

14

> How much of a choice do you really have in Call of Duty? You may go into statistical differences but everyone knows it, you shoot (and hit) first, you win (at least most of the time).

But how much choice do you have in Space Marine, Ghost Recon, Section 8, Rainbow Six, and (let’s get retro) Mechwarrior? Quite a lot and it directly contributes to how much more rich those games can be compared to Halo.

15

> > I don’t think a solution like this would really work for anyone. To me, a person who would be fine with everyone spawning with the same weapons, it’d just be redundancy. Someone who wanted to be able to choose the weapon they will spawn with, on the other hand, would only feel cheated. I’m all for cosmetic customization, but I don’t like the idea of trying to fool people into thinking they actually have choice in such an insultingly obvious way.
>
> How much of a choice do you really have in Call of Duty? You may go into statistical differences but everyone knows it, you shoot (and hit) first, you win (at least most of the time).

I don’t know, I’ve only played a little of it to say how differently all weapons behave. But from what I remember, there is still some difference to your choice to the extent that the choice is relevant. Even more so, you can spawn with different weapon types (e.g. sniper vs. assault rifle), can’t you? That, at least, is quite a meaningful choice.

But it’s not a game I feel qualified to discuss to the extent of specifics of the weapon sandbox. I’d have to ask a CoD fan whether there is difference or not. And I suspect that they might say that there is.

16

Why not have
a.)a Classic mode (no loadouts, ordanance, etc.) and
b.) a refined or new mode or whatever, with loadouts?
That’ll satisy some.

17

> > How much of a choice do you really have in Call of Duty? You may go into statistical differences but everyone knows it, you shoot (and hit) first, you win (at least most of the time).
>
> But how much choice do you have in Space Marine, Ghost Recon, Section 8, Rainbow Six, and (let’s get retro) Mechwarrior? Quite a lot and it directly contributes to how much more rich those games can be compared to Halo.

It also contributes to their situational unbalance (Something that might not have made them as popular as other games like Halo and Call of duty). Call of duty definitely has situational unbalance, but it has a lot less than the “named” games.

I have both Section 8, Ghost Recon and Space Marine. I don’t think I have been anymore annoyed ever than when I played Space Marine online. At it’s core it’s definitely a good game and I loved the campaign, but when I spawn with my small armed SMG, and other people fly around and spawn with swords, rockets and other over powered guns I get so pissed.

Halo should find it’s richness on the battlefield.

18

> Why not have
> a.)a Classic mode (no loadouts, ordanance, etc.) and
> b.) a refined or new mode or whatever, with loadouts?
> That’ll satisy some.

We have that now.
Satisfying some and satisfying most are very different things.
I like Loadouts. I think we could customize just one aspect of them(Primary, secondary, etc) but just that one.

19

Weapons copied from Mass Effect.

5 Pistols, Assault Rifles, and Precision weapons.

They could shoot needles, plasma, and other things.

20

> Weapons copied from Mass Effect.
>
> 5 Pistols, Assault Rifles, and Precision weapons.
>
> http://gyazo.com/d95b212f066b0201b556304b83417826
>
> They could shoot needles, plasma, and other things.

I find it funny how all those weapons fire differently, have different amounts of ammo, damage, armour piercing, aiming etc. that the only thing they share is a similar weapon shape which is works in mass effect since its been in since day 1

The weapons should look different, act different and be different. Loadouts can be balanced without cloned weapons (BR and CC are different) so there should be no illusion which would be so easy to see through of this idea.