The "How" of Sprint

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Alright, I know we’re all sick and tired of sprint threads and someone is going go say “did we really need another one of these”, but for once I’d like to have an actual discussion on the mechanics of sprint.

So the goal here is objective based debates for sprint. If you support sprint and want to see it in Halo 5, prove to me that it’s a good mechanic. Don’t just come in here and say “it makes the game better” or “It makes the game faster”, fully explain your rationale behind your stance and give concrete examples to why and how it improves the quality of the gameplay. I don’t care if you think it makes the game faster, I want some logical reasoning as to how it makes the game faster. If you oppose sprint, I expect the exact same content from you.

I’ll update the OP with the better arguments I’ve seen for and against sprint (briefly summarized) as we go along so we know what we’ve already discussed and what good points have been made for or against the mechanic.

Please keep things constructive, no one sentence opinion bashing posts.

So, you start, I’ll reply as things go.

2

Sprint
-Separates combat speed from movement speed. This can be ideal for some design purposes.
-Allows one to temporarily cross a specific unit distance faster than before at the cost of not being able to shoot.
-Alters the “feel” of the game. For some people.

The problem with many arguments for sprint is that they involve many more variables than just sprint itself.

“Sprint makes encounter rates faster!” - Only if Map Size remains the same.
“Sprint makes crossing the map faster!” - Not any faster than increasing base speed or altering map size would.

The other problem is the unspoken implication that faster is necessarily better. The developers could have spawned everyone in a tiny box of a map, but they didn’t. Downtime between fights makes map control significant, and it gives players time to strategize and actually secure objectives. We don’t want people hunting for hours, but neither do we want them to be in each others’ face 24/7. Not saying that sprint is the only factor, I’m saying re-evaluate how much emphasis you’re putting on “faster gameplay”,

3

It takes 1 second to get to full speed. If you get shot before you get to full speed, you stop sprinting. Therefore, you can’t run away from fights.

4

> 2533274877056440;3:
> It takes 1 second to get to full speed. If you get shot before you get to full speed, you stop sprinting. Therefore, you can’t run away from fights.

That’s not necessarily an argument for the mechanic as it is a counter to a common argument against the mechanic. That said, it’s definitely a balancing point I can support in terms of that specific problem.

> 2533274819302824;2:
> “Sprint makes crossing the map faster!” - Not any faster than increasing base speed or altering map size would.

On top of this argument, I’d also like to point out a problem. I recall someone doing the math a while ago in regards to Halo 4’s and the time it takes to cross them in comparison to some Halo 3 maps. According to that post, Halo 3 maps were indeed faster to cross at base speed, however, Halo 4’s maps were faster to cross with sprint, usually by several seconds

Problem is the split in combat speed and movement speed. In Halo 3, it’s not much of a stretch to say that someone could cross the map while maintaining full forward speed. They are fully capable of defending themselves. However, Halo 4 by comparison is significantly less likely. Due partly because you slow down when shot and partly because you have no way to defend yourself. The chances of you crossing the map faster in an actual game are slim, because in the event that you come across someone, even if you continue moving forward you will have to in some way be moving slower, whether it’s a slower sprint or whether you are defending yourself from your opponent.

Now, granted this is subjective to certain instances, but I would still argue that in an actual game, on average, you are crossing the map at the same rate as you would in Halo 3. Max potential speed is higher with sprint, but max actual speed would probably be the very similar.

Now, Halo 5 lacks sprint slow down so that part of the argument may go out of the window, but you’ll very likely still have to stop in order to defend yourself.

Again, this is a fairly subjective argument but one that I thought was worth pointing out.

5

The thing with sprint is that there arent really any good arguments to be made in its favour. I enjoy sprint in Halo but simply because of the way it makes gameplay feel; it’s completely subjective. Whereas if you look at sprint through a competitive mindset, it is overwhelmingly bad and there are plenty of objective arguments to made against it.

Pro Sprint:

  1. Gameplay feels better with sprint than without sprint. It’s entirely opinion based.

  2. Sprint is a movement option given to all players. If used incorrectly a player can very easily find himself in a disadvantageous position. Therefore it increases the skill gap because it can give a player an advantage or disadvantage depending on how the player uses it.

Once again this is completely subjective to the skill level of the player. At the highest level no player is going to put themself in a bad spot with sprint.

Anti-sprint: Do I really need to go here? We’ve all seen these 100 times over.

6

> 2533274908238201;1:
> Alright, I know we’re all sick and tired of sprint threads and someone is going go say “did we really need another one of these”, but for once I’d like to have an actual discussion on the mechanics of sprint.
>
> So the goal here is objective based debates for sprint. If you support sprint and want to see it in Halo 5, prove to me that it’s a good mechanic. Don’t just come in here and say “it makes the game better” or “It makes the game faster”, fully explain your rationale behind your stance and give concrete examples to why and how it improves the quality of the gameplay. I don’t care if you think it makes the game faster, I want some logical reasoning as to how it makes the game faster. If you oppose sprint, I expect the exact same content from you.
>
> I’ll update the OP with the better arguments I’ve seen for and against sprint (briefly summarized) as we go along so we know what we’ve already discussed and what good points have been made for or against the mechanic.
>
> Please keep things constructive, no one sentence opinion bashing posts.
>
> So, you start, I’ll reply as things go.

You are showing you bias by not having people who don’t want sprint reply with their reasons.

Sprinting might not make the game any faster. But it makes you, the player, feel faster. Feel better. Feel like you have more control. It gives you more options.

7

sooooo true guys!

8

> 2533274877056440;3:
> It takes 1 second to get to full speed. If you get shot before you get to full speed, you stop sprinting. Therefore, you can’t run away from fights.

yeah i agree with you’re logic

9

I just saw a comment on one of RUL’s beta videos, saying that Halo should have sprint because “every FPS for the last 5 years has had sprint. If Halo didn’t have sprint it would be the laughing stock of all FPSs. Use your brain!”

LOL. What logic is that?

Edit: This actually came from a comment on one of the articles explaining the design changes for H5G.

10

> 2533274971153426;8:
> > 2533274877056440;3:
> > It takes 1 second to get to full speed. If you get shot before you get to full speed, you stop sprinting. Therefore, you can’t run away from fights.
>
>
> yeah i agree with you’re logic

I agree with yours, too. If you had kept up with Halo news, you’d would’ve known that Josh Holmes already confirmed this in an interview from the latest bulletin (at 2:33).

11

> 2533274833164531;9:
> I just saw a comment on one of RUL’s beta videos, saying that Halo should have sprint because “every FPS for the last 5 years has had sprint. If Halo didn’t have sprint it would be the laughing stock of all FPSs. Use your brain!”
>
> LOL. What logic is that?
>
> Edit: This actually came from a comment on one of the articles explaining the design changes for H5G.
>
> attackofthefanboy.com/news/halo-5-guardians-design-changes-explained/

Reading those comments made me lost faith in people. Sprint improves gameplay and pacing? facepalm.

12

> 2533274806427910;11:
> > 2533274833164531;9:
> > I just saw a comment on one of RUL’s beta videos, saying that Halo should have sprint because “every FPS for the last 5 years has had sprint. If Halo didn’t have sprint it would be the laughing stock of all FPSs. Use your brain!”
> >
> > LOL. What logic is that?
> >
> > Edit: This actually came from a comment on one of the articles explaining the design changes for H5G.
> >
> > attackofthefanboy.com/news/halo-5-guardians-design-changes-explained/
>
>
> Reading those comments made me lost faith in people. Sprint improves gameplay and pacing? facepalm.

Lol, whats next, sprint cures the black death?

13

> 2533274908238201;4:
> > 2533274819302824;2:
> > “Sprint makes crossing the map faster!” - Not any faster than increasing base speed or altering map size would.
>
>
>
> On top of this argument, I’d also like to point out a problem. I recall someone doing the math a while ago in regards to Halo 4’s and the time it takes to cross them in comparison to some Halo 3 maps. According to that post, Halo 3 maps were indeed faster to cross at base speed, however, Halo 4’s maps were faster to cross with sprint, usually by several seconds.

Not sure if those are the most accurate results. Here are some test results Tsassi posted a whil ago:

> 2533274825830455;72:
> The proper way to test the movement speed is to build a long, 100-200 forge units long, track in Forge and run through it. You need as much as time for each run as possible, because the error produced by you using the stopwatch is static (always plus-minus 0.5 seconds), while the time difference produced by different movement speeds gets larger and larger the longer you run. Preferably, the experiment should be redone a couple of times and the average should be taken to get a more precise value, for approximate results, it’s not necessary.
>
> If you use this methodology, you will find that on a 100 units long track, it will take approximately 45.5 seconds to run through the track, giving you a movement speed of 2.20 U/s. If you go and do the same in Halo 3, you will find that it takes approximately 44.5 seconds, giving you a movement speed of 2.25 U/s. These are the results you should get with properly rigorous testing methodology.

As you can see, there’s barely any difference in the base speed between the two games, as the time taken to cross the same distance in 3 is a second faster than in 4, which is basically the same.

14

> 2533274973373704;13:
> > 2533274908238201;4:
> > > 2533274819302824;2:
> > > “Sprint makes crossing the map faster!” - Not any faster than increasing base speed or altering map size would.
> >
> >
> >
> > On top of this argument, I’d also like to point out a problem. I recall someone doing the math a while ago in regards to Halo 4’s and the time it takes to cross them in comparison to some Halo 3 maps. According to that post, Halo 3 maps were indeed faster to cross at base speed, however, Halo 4’s maps were faster to cross with sprint, usually by several seconds.
>
>
>
> Not sure if those are the most accurate results. Here are some test results Tsassi posted a whil ago:
>
>
>
> > 2533274825830455;72:
> > The proper way to test the movement speed is to build a long, 100-200 forge units long, track in Forge and run through it. You need as much as time for each run as possible, because the error produced by you using the stopwatch is static (always plus-minus 0.5 seconds), while the time difference produced by different movement speeds gets larger and larger the longer you run. Preferably, the experiment should be redone a couple of times and the average should be taken to get a more precise value, for approximate results, it’s not necessary.
> >
> > If you use this methodology, you will find that on a 100 units long track, it will take approximately 45.5 seconds to run through the track, giving you a movement speed of 2.20 U/s. If you go and do the same in Halo 3, you will find that it takes approximately 44.5 seconds, giving you a movement speed of 2.25 U/s. These are the results you should get with properly rigorous testing methodology.
>
>
> As you can see, there’s barely any difference in the base speed between the two games, as the time taken to cross the same distance in 3 is a second faster than in 4, which, imo, is basically the same.

A second faster is not “basically the same”, even if it is your opinion. A second is all that a twitch-based shooter needs in order for drastic game changes to happen. A single second can ruin weapon balance (depending on how quickly weapons can kill). A single second is comparably a long time in a twitch-based action game.

15

> 2533274881015020;14:
> A second faster is not “basically the same”, even if it is your opinion. A second is all that a twitch-based shooter needs in order for drastic game changes to happen. A single second can ruin weapon balance (depending on how quickly weapons can kill). A single second is comparably a long time in a twitch-based action game.

You’re just being over dramatic. You would be right if it 9 vs 10 sec, or at the very best 14 vs.15 sec. But, it’s 44.5 vs. 45.5!

Also, there’s only 0.05 difference in speed, so yeah, they’re basically the same.

16

there problem with sprint (in H4 at least) was that it was just copy pasted from COD, you can’t always just copy something from one game and paste it into another. which is why there trying to balance it out more in H5 with the shield thing, I would be interested in seeing how the game plays differently if sprint was mapped to a button you had to hold down (X, LB, A ) this can actually have a dramatic change in the way sprint is used, think gears of war, were you have to hold A, this requires you to take your thumb off the right stick limiting you to only running in a straight line. so you can see were you want to go and get there faster, but you can’t sprint circles around people.

17

> 2533274973373704;15:
> > 2533274881015020;14:
> > A second faster is not “basically the same”, even if it is your opinion. A second is all that a twitch-based shooter needs in order for drastic game changes to happen. A single second can ruin weapon balance (depending on how quickly weapons can kill). A single second is comparably a long time in a twitch-based action game.
>
>
> You’re just being over dramatic. You would be right if it 9 vs 10 sec, or at the very best 14 vs.15 sec. But, it’s 44.5 vs. 45.5!
>
> Also, there’s only 0.05 difference in speed, so yeah, they’re basically the same.

I’m not being over dramatic, I’m being realistic. You’re marginalizing how important one second can be in a fast-paced action game.

Additionally, your maths is wrong - a difference of “0.05” would get you from 44.5 to 45.0. That is not the case here as it’s a difference of approximately one second - not half a second.

18

> 2533274881015020;17:
> > 2533274973373704;15:
> > > 2533274881015020;14:
> > > A second faster is not “basically the same”, even if it is your opinion. A second is all that a twitch-based shooter needs in order for drastic game changes to happen. A single second can ruin weapon balance (depending on how quickly weapons can kill). A single second is comparably a long time in a twitch-based action game.
> >
> >
> >
> > You’re just being over dramatic. You would be right if it 9 vs 10 sec, or at the very best 14 vs.15 sec. But, it’s 44.5 vs. 45.5!
> >
> > Also, there’s only 0.05 difference in speed, so yeah, they’re basically the same.
>
>
> I’m not being over dramatic, I’m being realistic. You’re marginalizing how important one second can be in a fast-paced action game.
>
> Additionally, your maths is wrong - a difference of “0.05” would get you from 44.5 to 45.0. That is not the case here as it’s a difference of approximately one second - not half a second.

Read again. Carefully this time: “Also, there’s only 0.05 difference in speed, so yeah, they’re basically the same”

and Tsassi said:

> If you use this methodology, you will find that on a 100 units long track, it will take approximately 45.5 seconds to run through the track, giving you a movement speed of 2.20 U/s. If you go and do the same in Halo 3, you will find that it takes approximately 44.5 seconds, giving you a movement speed of 2.25 U/s.

2.25-2.20 = 0.05 difference in speed (units per second).

19

Ah, so you’re talking about speed of units per second. You didn’t clarify with your first post.

20

Counter Strike doesn’t have sprint, and it’s one of the most brutal fps out there.
That being said, I suppose sprint allows people to leave spawns sooner, making spawn-camping harder.