Is anyone else sick of the Elites being bad guys & preferred when they were good guys in Halo 3? I think it was a nice change of pace & that it was better for the humans to have allies than just to be alone in the universe. Plus, I think the Brutes made for better villains since they were so ruthless & don’t really have any honor. & who could resist seeing Chief & Arbiter fighting side-by-side again?
So who’s with me? The Elites should return in Halo 5 as good guys & they should be playable in ALL of multiplayer again. 343 could fix any problems that the MLG guys had with Elites…or the MLG guys could just, ya know, ban Elites in their play.
P.S. I DO know that the Elites in Halo 4 are a rogue faction, but the regular Elites should still have been in it.
I agree. They better have the Arbiter and his elites as allies in Halo 5. It makes no sense that the Arbiter and his allies work so hard to be allied with the humans and break from the covenant and then suddenly half the elites turn bad again.
For me, the Separatists fighting alongside the UNSC was one of the best experiences of Halo 2 and 3. It really fleshed out the whole experience I think. I’m mildly disappointed that 4 is returning to the status quo (and is significantly ushered that way by the K5 trilogy). What’s attracted to me is the universe. The aliens. I remember poking around the Hunters in H2, appreciating their size all the more once I had a chance to watch them loom overhead without attacking.
The myriad races of Halo really are my favorite part of the series, and I would prefer to see them not be the same pigeonholed bunch of targets in every game.
That being said, I can’t see 343i doing the same thing Bungie did. (IE only enemies in the first game, allies in the next to fight the bigger threat again).
I think it’s doubtful that we will see any amiable Covenant from now onwards. I really don’t think the Arbiter and his ilk have survived to be honest, at least as a capable player in galactic politics. Seemingly the Storm and the warmongering Elites have won in that regard. Additionally, the demonization in the Kilo-5 books, FuD and Halo 4 is a bit too thick to suddenly break from. They have been driving home how ruthless, bloodthirsty and merciless Elites singularly are, and how the Halo 3 alliance was nothing, and lead nowhere. To suddenly turn around with friendly Elites wouldn’t fit with the new tone of the fiction.
Unfortunately for us all, Sangheili are being driven out of the picture. I forsee the rest of this trilogy being another Human-Forerunner War with a Flood interlude. Apparently, in a few years humanity has upgraded from being Tier 3 to almost Tier 1 technologically, while the Sangheili have downgraded from Tier 2 to somewhere between Tier 3 and 4. 343i is basically making it a point to say it doesn’t even matter where the Sangheili stand anymore, because they are neither a threat to the Forerunners or Humanity.
Sadly, the species I have devoted all of my time on Halo to since Halo 2, will recede into the background with this new trilogy.
I would like to see (and there is plenty of room in the games fiction) the Arbiter and his allies portraying Sanghelli in a better light. The Sanghelli are an Honorable race who respect Humanity to some degree.
> I would like to see (and there is plenty of room in the games fiction) the Arbiter and his allies portraying Sanghelli in a better light. The Sanghelli are an Honorable race who respect Humanity to some degree.
Whether they deserve any respect is up for debate.
yeah it seems to me the Elites and by extension most of the Covenant are being relegated to the background unfortunately…
And Unfortunately even more, the only covie contact we do get is from the religious loyalist faction that is hostile to humanity, THANK YOU ADMIRAL PARANGORSKY!!
I hope that in the future a combined Human-Covie alliance forms and we get a mixed society eventually.
> > I would like to see (and there is plenty of room in the games fiction) the Arbiter and his allies portraying Sanghelli in a better light. The Sanghelli are an Honorable race who respect Humanity to some degree.
>
> Whether they deserve any respect is up for debate.
I suppose the same debate could go for the Sangheili as well. I think you and I can both agree that there is a lot of potential for the development of the Elites as a species rather than them being a technologically stupid race who can barely plant grain. Despite all of our past misgivings and debate on the Elites vs Humanity morality issue, I think the Elites deserve much more than what they have been given.
I would definitely like to see the elites return as good guys, but it seems like 343i is trying hard to make them seem like bad guys more and more. Obviously i hope they fail, and that they stop. They aren’t convincing many of us though, which is good.
I prefer having the Elites as our opponents, in all honesty- I’d just like them to be quite fleshed out opponents with serious motives and divisions of their own rather than ridiculously dumb religious fanatics who serve us as nothing more but comic cannon fodder before the REAL enemy emerges.
I think having a spllinter group of Elites makes 4 more interesting. However, I don’t see the Elites being enemies once again. I am positive the Arbiter will return in part 5 as there will be bigger problems with the Forerunners. Humanity will still have its alliance with the Elites despite ONI attempting to sabotage relations between them and the UNSC.
> > I would like to see (and there is plenty of room in the games fiction) the Arbiter and his allies portraying Sanghelli in a better light. The Sanghelli are an Honorable race who respect Humanity to some degree.
>
> Whether they deserve any respect is up for debate.
I think this was point of the K5 series as a whole; does humanity, and the Sanghelli for that matter, have it in them to forgive each other after 30 years of war and genocide? People bash on Karen Traviss for demonizing the Sanghelli as warmongers, and ONI for pitting our races against each other, but in all honesty does anyone here seriously think that entire generations that have experienced nothing but war with each other could ever just get over all that in 5 measly years?
That’s where 343i has taken this story, into very real and human territory, and that’s why there isn’t allied Sanghelli in Halo 4, neither side WANTS to coexist, because they don’t know how. Of course there are exceptions (Lord Hood, the Arbiter [maybe]), but in the grand scheme of things forgiveness isn’t something on either side’s mind right now.
> > > I would like to see (and there is plenty of room in the games fiction) the Arbiter and his allies portraying Sanghelli in a better light. The Sanghelli are an Honorable race who respect Humanity to some degree.
> >
> > Whether they deserve any respect is up for debate.
>
> I think this was point of the K5 series as a whole; does humanity, and the Sanghelli for that matter, have it in them to forgive each other after 30 years of war and genocide? People bash on Karen Traviss for demonizing the Sanghelli as warmongers, and ONI for pitting our races against each other, but in all honesty does anyone here seriously think that entire generations that have experienced nothing but war with each other could ever just get over all that in 5 measly years?
>
> That’s where 343i has taken this story, into very real and human territory, and that’s why there isn’t allied Sanghelli in Halo 4, neither side WANTS to coexist, because they don’t know how. Of course there are exceptions (Lord Hood, the Arbiter [maybe]), but in the grand scheme of things forgiveness isn’t something on either side’s mind right now.
You got that in the wrong order the Arbiter wants peace and hood is the maybe one. The whole post halo 3 universe was centred around the human sympathisers having a great influence on the political leaders of the Sangheili and an expanding power base. The Sangheili ascetics even chose a known human sympathiser to be their connection to the remnants of the Covenant navy. Sadly this interesting peace of world building has been totally discarded and retconned by 343i so they can have the Storm Covenant.
Regarding bashing on K5. . . I think the “haters” understand that you can’t just put aside that kind of animosity. The problem was that instead of exploring individual reasons behind that unifying hatred the author simply painted it with a broad sloppy stroke of red.
Nothing unifies like A common enemy. The rubble was able to exist. The separatists and UNSC worked together when it was clear they both had a greater enemy. Oni scientists are able to see the engineers as passive assets instead of the suicide bombing techies they could often appear to be. Clearly there are many levels in the relationship between the races. Obviously they can’t hold hands and sing songs. No one is expecting that. But sending the vast bulk of a tired, war weary and disillusioned race right back into the war as a pale imitation of their former glory stretches patience and belief and is leading toward franchise burnout for this one. The ending of halo 3 really set a tone and the new books and halo 4 seem to be doing a complete double back in that regard.
I forgot about all that, that was all in Glasslands right? I just finished reading The Thursday War the other day, and most of that book was focused on anti-human factions among the Sanghelli. I do remember now that there was a somewhat growing Human-sympathetic group in Sanghellios (mostly among those sympathetic with the Arbiter), so now I’m sort of confusing myself here.
I like the idea that all can’t be forgiven between the Sanghelli and Humanity, it makes the mood of the Universe more real, but I can’t quite tell if I’m right anymore in saying that neither side is in a forgiving mood.
I wouldn’t be too quick to say that 343i retconned all the peaceful aspects of the Sanghelli though, I think they just wanted to show where the Storm Covenant came from.
> Is anyone else sick of the Elites being bad guys & preferred when they were good guys in Halo 3? I think it was a nice change of pace & that it was better for the humans to have allies than just to be alone in the universe. Plus, I think the Brutes made for better villains since they were so ruthless & don’t really have any honor. & who could resist seeing Chief & Arbiter fighting side-by-side again?
>
> So who’s with me? The Elites should return in Halo 5 as good guys & they should be playable in ALL of multiplayer again. 343 could fix any problems that the MLG guys had with Elites…or the MLG guys could just, ya know, ban Elites in their play.
>
> P.S. I DO know that the Elites in Halo 4 are a rogue faction, but the regular Elites should still have been in it.
> Is anyone else sick of the Elites being bad guys & preferred when they were good guys in Halo 3? I think it was a nice change of pace & that it was better for the humans to have allies than just to be alone in the universe. Plus, I think the Brutes made for better villains since they were so ruthless & don’t really have any honor. & who could resist seeing Chief & Arbiter fighting side-by-side again?
>
> So who’s with me? The Elites should return in Halo 5 as good guys & they should be playable in ALL of multiplayer again. 343 could fix any problems that the MLG guys had with Elites…or the MLG guys could just, ya know, ban Elites in their play.
>
> P.S. I DO know that the Elites in Halo 4 are a rogue faction, but the regular Elites should still have been in it.
I completely understand why the storm covenant feel the way they do about humanity and I personally can’t wait to fight Elites again because they are so much cooler than the brutes. That said one of my favorite moments in Halo 3 so right after the arbiter kills truth and then goes back to back with chief at the end of the cut scene that was amazing. I say keep the storm elites as enemies but why not have the arbiter show up later with some friendly elites that they we can have the best of both worlds.
> I forgot about all that, that was all in Glasslands right? I just finished reading The Thursday War the other day, and most of that book was focused on anti-human factions among the Sanghelli. I do remember now that there was a somewhat growing Human-sympathetic group in Sanghellios (mostly among those sympathetic with the Arbiter), so now I’m sort of confusing myself here.
>
> I like the idea that all can’t be forgiven between the Sanghelli and Humanity, it makes the mood of the Universe more real, but I can’t quite tell if I’m right anymore in saying that neither side is in a forgiving mood.
>
> I wouldn’t be too quick to say that 343i retconned all the peaceful aspects of the Sanghelli though, I think they just wanted to show where the Storm Covenant came from.
>
> [Edit] All this in response to Scotty
No it was not present in glasslands because the whole human sympathiser movement was created and stoked in bungie made fiction, the Sangheili warrior I was referring to was one of the campaign player characters in Halo 3.