The Halo we knew needed to go awol

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

For the record, I liked classic Halo better. (Pre-Reach.) Halo 3 was best for what I wanted, a huge player base, and a fluctuating skill gap based on the game mode. For example, without sprint, and with a weaker pistol and AR, Halo could be slower and more casual. Or, with the accurate BR to start, and symmetrical arena layouts, Halo could be fast, competitive, punishing.

Halo 5 can’t be anything but competive, with sprint and highly accurate weapons everywhere. The Halo I used to like is gone, and the MCC drove away nostalgia fans with its broken rampancy, so the glory days are gone too. What we have is Halo-esque but something else.

Stuff morphs over time. It happens. There’s no way a game in 2015 can avoid offering sprint, as much as it ruins the old formula. Bunny hopping is mostly gone. Platforming is reduced. The guns grenades and melee formula wasn’t going to hold the masses’ attention forever. Classic Halo feels like video-game-chess today, tactical and somewhat limited on purpose. That’s what some of us still prefer. But chess is chess.

I see angst over the direction that 343 has taken Halo, and I agree. But I don’t think what classic players want would sell today in a big way. Do you agree? Disagree?

2

So you’re saying Halo 3 wasn’t competitive at all? You must be thinking of a different halo 3 then I am because that one was filled with it.

  • Only way to level up fast was to win matches - ranking system for each game type - a couple social playlists that would happen once in a blue moonhonestly Halo reach was the most social game fallow by halo 5. And I say halo 5 because warzone is completely like that
3

I agree but I actually find the additions make for a more fun, enjoyable experience. I was never big into Halo multiplayer until Reach came around. Until then I played completely for the single player and would dabble in multiplayer every now and then. Maybe I’m just too casual but I find it a good compromise between the old tried and true Halo and the more fast and frantic shooters of today.

4

> 2533274868062286;2:
> So you’re saying Halo 3 wasn’t competitive at all? You must be thinking of a different halo 3 then I am because that one was filled with it.
>
> - Only way to level up fast was to win matches
> - ranking system for each game type
> - a couple social playlists that would happen once in a blue moon
> honestly Halo reach was the most social game fallow by halo 5. And I say halo 5 because warzone is completely like that

Halo 3 was super competitive with certain maps and starts. It could be dialed up or down, while Halo 5 can’t as easily with OP weapons and super fast movement. To make Halo 5 social, you need lot of players (Warzone) whereas in Halo 3 you could have a social game with a 4v4 or 5v5.

5

I think that a Halo game with classic gameplay would sell just fine.

Firstly, fans of slower-paces shooters are an untapped market right now. If a gamer wants something with sprinting and sped-up gameplay, then he/she has options right now which only take away sales from Halo. A gamer who wants something without sprinting has nowhere to go for new content.

Secondly, look at how many players said that the inclusion of sprinting was a deal-breaker for Halo 5. I sincerely doubt as many players would see its removal as the same sort of a deal-breaker, whether they like sprinting or not. The anti-sprinting people are way more passionate about their stance than the pro-sprinting people.

6

“Would classic Halo sell today?”

Dunno. I remain somewhat skeptical that it would. Then again I’ve yet to see how successful Halo 5 itself has actually been, so I can’t claim that classic Halo wouldn’t sell either.

Ultimately though, I’ve just really grown to hate modern gaming and what it’s become.

7

> 2811398874529013;5:
> I think that a Halo game with classic gameplay would sell just fine.
>
> Firstly, fans of slower-paces shooters are an untapped market right now. If a gamer wants something with sprinting and sped-up gameplay, then he/she has options right now which only take away sales from Halo. A gamer who wants something without sprinting has nowhere to go for new content.
>
> Secondly, look at how many players said that the inclusion of sprinting was a deal-breaker for Halo 5. I sincerely doubt as many players would see its removal as the same sort of a deal-breaker, whether they like sprinting or not. The anti-sprinting people are way more passionate about their stance than the pro-sprinting people.

I hear ya. I know CounterStrike is brought up as an argument for how a classic shooter can succeed after years and years. And yet, I don’t play CounterStrike and I probably never will. These games seem to capture a person at one point, or not. CS is super stripped down and competive and I’m glad it exists. I think it’s intimidating and I would imagine a younger Halo player looking at Halo 2 or 3 might feel similarly.

8

I think Halo 5’s arena is what Halo 3 would be like if it were made today.

9

> 2533274819302824;6:
> Ultimately though, I’ve just really grown to hate modern gaming and what it’s become.

Agree.

10

If you don’t think there is a market for a new gen shooter with classic halo mechanics you are dead wrong

every AAA FPS franchise nowadays feels the exact same, and that is what the competitive crowd wants for sure, as it makes the transition between games easier, but what classic halo had was a fun factor that made you want to keep playing because every match felt like a new experience, and with the nutty maps that were in those games every kill and gun battle played out differently, even when you would do bad it was still just plain fun, and that is where halo has lost its way in my opinion, it was cool meeting new people (you know, in real life) and finding out that they liked halo and jumping on the couch for some split screen, it’s amazing how far the social aspect of halo has regressed

11

> 2811398874529013;5:
> I think that a Halo game with classic gameplay would sell just fine.
>
> Firstly, fans of slower-paces shooters are an untapped market right now. If a gamer wants something with sprinting and sped-up gameplay, then he/she has options right now. A gamer who wants something without sprinting has nowhere to go for new content.
>
> Secondly, look at how many players said that the inclusion of sprinting was a deal-breaker for Halo 5. I sincerely doubt as many players would see its removal as the same sort of a deal-breaker, whether they like sprinting or not. The anti-sprinting people are way more passionate about their stance than the pro-sprinting people.

I think Halo 5 fills a void that no other shooter occupies. It’s not as fast and frantic as Call of Duty but not as slow as the older Halo games. Additionally every other shooter seems to have adopted the trend of level unlocks, load outs, and perks rather than starting out on equal footing and respawning power weapons. Sure there are other arena shooters out there but they’re all very fast paced. Personally, like I said above, I feel it’s a good compromise and pushes the series forward while still keeping some of the older style of gameplay.

12

> 2811398874529013;5:
> I think that a Halo game with classic gameplay would sell just fine.
>
> Firstly, fans of slower-paces shooters are an untapped market right now. If a gamer wants something with sprinting and sped-up gameplay, then he/she has options right now. A gamer who wants something without sprinting has nowhere to go for new content.
>
> Secondly, look at how many players said that the inclusion of sprinting was a deal-breaker for Halo 5. I sincerely doubt as many players would see its removal as the same sort of a deal-breaker.

This is all just guesswork. And these forums, or any Internet forum, isn’t enough to go by.

Your guesses could be correct but without proper market research we have no way of knowing if the market wants the good old days of low-mobility Halo back.

I personally think/guess the amazing success of Destiny clues us in to what market preferences are with respect to FPS features. Bungie, freed from the shackles of having to create nostalgic Halo, really pushed the envelope in terms of expanding FPS gunplay and strategy.

I am a huge Halo fan, and have been since playing the first Halo when I was fresh out of college. But, if Destiny offered dedicated servers, 60 FPS, and addressed their balance issues, I would fall back to playing that game more often. Destiny has stronger presentation overall, in terms of voice over work, medal design, death animations, character animations, map design, and the satisfaction of popping a super at the right moment.

Halo 5 I find is a nice step forward; but it isn’t exactly innovative. Yes, some of the new abilities distort map control gameplay on the smallish maps (Steongholds is a great game type but needs bigger maps). But I have seen some ridiculously clever play happening on Twitch amongst highly skilled players. When they play, it looks like a combination of chess and a quick draw showdown.

In some ways, the skill gap in Halo 5 was perhaps made too big for a mass market. I don’t mind it, but some folks are clearly bothered by how much skill is required to rise above the low level attacks that the AR and sprint allow.

13

Halo 3’s AR and Pistol definitely didn’t make the game more casual. They were just straight up worthless weapons and even casual players could pick up on that fact. Every weapon should be viable in the right situations. Willing to bet that the reason people are saying weapons like the AR, SMG, and Pistol are OP is because those weapons were worthless in most of Halo’s past iterations. They’re not used to having those weapons as viable options.

Halo 5 can also be casual. It already is with Warzone. As more maps, playlists, gametypes, and Forge roll out, we’ll see the casual side of Halo 5 grow even further. I’d also make the argument that platforming is even more of a thing now because of the new movement options. And for those players who dislike said movement options, it is completely possible to disable them via Custom Game options. People might argue that playing without those is impossible on these maps since they’ve been built around them. Well, how about you increase base movement speed and jump height to mitigate the loss of those new movements? There, your classic gameplay now works!

14

The MP is damn near perfectly balanced.

15

> 2533274850465226;13:
> Halo 3’s AR and Pistol definitely didn’t make the game more casual. They were just straight up worthless weapons and even casual players could pick up on that fact. Every weapon should be viable in the right situations. Willing to bet that the reason people are saying weapons like the AR, SMG, and Pistol are OP is because those weapons were worthless in most of Halo’s past iterations. They’re not used to having those weapons as viable options.
>
> Halo 5 can also be casual. It already is with Warzone. As more maps, playlists, gametypes, and Forge roll out, we’ll see the casual side of Halo 5 grow even further. I’d also make the argument that platforming is even more of a thing now because of the new movement options. And for those players who dislike said movement options, it is completely possible to disable them via Custom Game options. People might argue that playing without those is impossible on these maps since they’ve been built around them. Well, how about you increase base movement speed and jump height to mitigate the loss of those new movements? There, your classic gameplay now works!

Cool. There are still Halo players with common sense.

16

> 2533274799139992;1:
> For the record, I liked classic Halo better. (Pre-Reach.) Halo 3 was best for what I wanted, a huge player base, and a fluctuating skill gap based on the game mode. For example, without sprint, and with a weaker pistol and AR, Halo could be slower and more casual. Or, with the accurate BR to start, and symmetrical arena layouts, Halo could be fast, competitive, punishing.
>
> Halo 5 can’t be anything but competive, with sprint and highly accurate weapons everywhere. The Halo I used to like is gone, and the MCC drove away nostalgia fans with its broken rampancy, so the glory days are gone too. What we have is Halo-esque but something else.
>
> Stuff morphs over time. It happens. There’s no way a game in 2015 can avoid offering sprint, as much as it ruins the old formula. Bunny hopping is mostly gone. Platforming is reduced. The guns grenades and melee formula wasn’t going to hold the masses’ attention forever. Classic Halo feels like video-game-chess today, tactical and somewhat limited on purpose. That’s what some of us still prefer. But chess is chess.
>
> I see angst over the direction that 343 has taken Halo, and I agree. But I don’t think what classic players want would sell today in a big way. Do you agree? Disagree?

Sadly, Halo as a franchise is coming to an end. soon we will be overwhelmed by CoD scrubs and we will cease to exist. The competitive community as a whole has diminished to something almost unrecognizable. With time, everything changes. Very rarely is that change for the better. However, the new generation may not agree. They want new. They want Fast. They want similar. It no longer pays to be different when developing a game. instead, it pays to take key features from every other game and merge it into one huge clusterphuck. Bungie was onto something. Then they ruined it by giving us Reach. 343 took reach and turned it into the abomination we know as Halo 4. And from there, mixed with the AW community, we’ve been given Halo 5. Such is life.

17

> 2533274850465226;13:
> Halo 3’s AR and Pistol definitely didn’t make the game more casual. They were just straight up worthless weapons and even casual players could pick up on that fact.

I guess define casual. These weak starting weapons let players run around without fearing getting four-shotted by every other player. Of course there were pick ups. Why did social slayer almost always start with AR or why was action sack popular with the casual crowd. The starting weapons weren’t all that lethal from far away.

18

> 2533274850465226;13:
> Halo 3’s AR and Pistol definitely didn’t make the game more casual. They were just straight up worthless weapons and even casual players could pick up on that fact. Every weapon should be viable in the right situations. Willing to bet that the reason people are saying weapons like the AR, SMG, and Pistol are OP is because those weapons were worthless in most of Halo’s past iterations. They’re not used to having those weapons as viable options.
>
> Halo 5 can also be casual. It already is with Warzone. As more maps, playlists, gametypes, and Forge roll out, we’ll see the casual side of Halo 5 grow even further. I’d also make the argument that platforming is even more of a thing now because of the new movement options. And for those players who dislike said movement options, it is completely possible to disable them via Custom Game options. People might argue that playing without those is impossible on these maps since they’ve been built around them. Well, how about you increase base movement speed and jump height to mitigate the loss of those new movements? There, your classic gameplay now works!

Well stated. The movement abilities are amazingly well done and balanced in this game. To me, they just add to the overall strategy and layer another skill on the gameplay. That anyone would claim platforming is diminished is baffling. The maps provide a number of opportunities to ambush, flank, and surprise the enemy that require platforming skills.

I am eager to see where 343i takes the gameplay in Halo 6. It would be nice if some DLC added gameplay elements, however, that is a bit much to ask.

19

> 2533274877571916;18:
> > 2533274850465226;13:
> > Halo 3’s AR and Pistol definitely didn’t make the game more casual. They were just straight up worthless weapons and even casual players could pick up on that fact. Every weapon should be viable in the right situations. Willing to bet that the reason people are saying weapons like the AR, SMG, and Pistol are OP is because those weapons were worthless in most of Halo’s past iterations. They’re not used to having those weapons as viable options.
> >
> > Halo 5 can also be casual. It already is with Warzone. As more maps, playlists, gametypes, and Forge roll out, we’ll see the casual side of Halo 5 grow even further. I’d also make the argument that platforming is even more of a thing now because of the new movement options. And for those players who dislike said movement options, it is completely possible to disable them via Custom Game options. People might argue that playing without those is impossible on these maps since they’ve been built around them. Well, how about you increase base movement speed and jump height to mitigate the loss of those new movements? There, your classic gameplay now works!
>
>
> Well stated. The movement abilities are amazingly well done and balanced in this game. To me, they just add to the overall strategy and layer another skill on the gameplay. That anyone would claim platforming is diminished is baffling. The maps provide a number of opportunities to ambush, flank, and surprise the enemy that require platforming skills.
>
> I am eager to see where 343i takes the gameplay in Halo 6. It would be nice if some DLC added gameplay elements, however, that is a bit much to ask.

Define platforming. It used to mean, you had to jump to a place all by yourself. Now clamber does it for you. The Guardian jump in Halo 3 next to yellow lift was something you had to do yourself. Now it’s done for you. I don’t call clambering platforming.

If you think I’m putting down Halo 3 for having a casual side, I’m not. I’m complimenting the game design. Casual means precision weapons and mid-far weapons are reduced. Sorry. It’s the formula. Casual players could goof around in Halo 3 without being picked off by BR’s everywhere. Now, the Halo 5 pistol is accurate from way across the map. Hard to have a relaxed casual mode with that happening. Unless you load 12v12.

20

Bringing a social, have fun attitude, is within YOUR power to bring to the arena. There are plenty of casual players within the Bronze and Silver bracket. Having competent weapon starts wont make the game inherently competitive, the players wielding those weapons make the game competitive.

In taking a quick glance at your service record, you look to be unfortunately ranked one bracket above where you should probably belong. Your win % is a bit low, ideally the ranking system would find you a spot where any given game you have a 50/50 chance of wining. Hopefully 343 will provide the option to derank once your win % drops beyond a certain point.