The Halo Sandbox Kinda Sucks

Games Halo Infinite
1

… but it doesn’t have to.

You will have to forgive me for the somewhat trollish title, but I wouldn’t post it if I didn’t believe it to be true to some degree. To be clear, I’m not saying that the entire sandbox sucks or anything like that, but I do believe that the Halo sandbox has failed to fully live up to its potential from basically Halo 2 onwards.

Many weapons and vehicles have come an gone over the years, but we haven’t got that many new weapons over the years when we really break it down. Many of them have just slight tweaks on existing weapons and in some cases we actually lost unique weapons. In Halo 2 we got about 4 truly new weapons in the M6C, the Brute shot, Fuel Rod Cannon, and Sword and even then the last two weapons were still in CE they were just unusable. The decently accurate, headshot capable, plasma stunning CE Plasma Rifle was turned into a generic bullet hose leaving us with a net gain of just 1 to 3 new weapons depending on which weapons you consider to be truly new.

The Beam Rifle is nothing but a purple sniper rifle, the SMG, H2 Plasma Rifle, and Brute PR are all just bullet hoses like the CE AR and the Carbine and BR fill the exact same roll as the CE Pistol did. Things don’t get much better after Halo 2.

The SMG(minus ODST), H2-HR Plasma Rifles, Brute PR, H3-H5 ARs, Spiker, Plasma Repeater, H4 Suppressor, Storm Rifle, SAW are all essentially just bullet hoses in the same vein as the CE AR.

The BRs, Carbines, DMRs, Needle Rifle, HR-H4 Magnums(though these are just worse versions), the H5 Magnum, and the H5 Light Rifle are all the same type of versatile headshot weapon as the CE Pistol.

The Mauler and Scattershots are not meaningfully different from the human Shotgun(which itself lost a lot of its character after CE)

The Beam Rifle has never been anything but a reskinned sniper rifle.

The H5 Boltshot and Suppressor crowd the Needler’s niche and there are plenty of other small examples to go around.

Now there are plenty of weapons in between all the ones I just mentioned that were unique, interesting additions to the sandbox, and even a few variants of the weapons I mentioned have more character/potential than others. But at the end of the day we have had a lot of weapons over the years that just don’t add anything of value to the sandbox outside of aesthetics.

Which leads me to Halo Infinite where I already have a few concerns. The Sidekick and Mangler look to fill a similar close range headshot capable niche, the Bulldog is just your usual Halo shotgun, which begs the question of why they bothered do change the design so drastically but I digress. The Plasma Carbine still looks like something of a bullet hose despite its burst fire. The Ravager seems to fire like an uncharged Halo 5 Incinerator Cannon, which to be fair the whole Promethean sandbox seems to be MIA at the moment so that might not be a problem.

Outside of the Commando I have a lot of concerns for how the Infinite sandbox is going to shape up. Now to be fair the there is a lot of unknowns regarding how precisely some of these weapons perform and what the rest of the sandbox will look like, but my goal here isn’t to say “Infinite sandbox doomed”, but rather to start talking about potential issues while there might still be time to tweak the design of some of these weapons.

We don’t have to have a tiny sandbox in order to have a truly diverse sandbox. We don’t have to settle for the superficial diversity of later Halo games, we can have our cake and eat it too, we just need to demand more from our sandbox than "the Human/Banished/Forerunner version of an existing Human/Banished/Forerunner weapon. I know 343 is capable of creating weapons with unique mechanics, the H5 req sandbox is full of interesting designs, those unique weapons just need to be brought into the “normal” sandbox and not be held hostage behind P2W mechanics, “upgrades”, or easter eggs.

TL;DR: Too many Halo weapons are just boring reskins of existing weapon types and I worry Infinite might end up the same way. We can have a sandbox that varied in terms of mechanics and aesthetics, we just have to make smart choices about which weapons make the cut and not throw every last possible weapon into the game just because we have some emotional attachment to a particular reskin weapon like say the Carbine. P.S. Not trying to call out Carbine fans specifically, we all have our favorites even if among weapons that only have slight differences between one another.

2

Wholly agree and the biggest reason why most of the weapons shown with the Infinite reveal bothered me so much. We already have the standard point and shoot weapons for both human and covenant weapons, it needs more weapons that do something different. The heavy AR just looks like yet ANOTHER mid-long range weapon to compete with the BR and DMR.

We want more diversity with guns, not more of the same.

3

The full sandbox hasn’t been shown so it’s hard to say that it sucks right now. I’m assuming like many of Infinites many secrets and the way 343i is tight lipped that more is to be revealed.

4

> 2533274809988140;3:
> The full sandbox hasn’t been shown so it’s hard to say that it sucks right now. I’m assuming like many of Infinites many secrets and the way 343i is tight lipped that more is to be revealed.

I said as much in my post, but my point was underwhelming weapon sandboxes have historically been an issue in Halo before 343 even entered the picture, which is why it is important to voice concerns now. I don’t think its serves much of a purpose to be coy regarding the weapon sandbox as most Halo games haven’t really held much back in terms of the weapons sandbox, in fact it is usually front and center of the marketing.

5

I sort of disagree. Sure you may be underwhelmed with some of those things but every games brought something fresh be unique to the sandbox. What I think infinite needs is a lot of true unique new aspects and cover all the old. My only complaint between games is the loss of some weapons of vehicles for seemingly no reason.

6

> 2533274815946143;5:
> I sort of disagree. Sure you may be underwhelmed with some of those things but every games brought something fresh be unique to the sandbox. What I think infinite needs is a lot of true unique new aspects and cover all the old. My only complaint between games is the loss of some weapons of vehicles for seemingly no reason.

fresh and unique how? every gun in H5 does the same thing with nothing different

7

> 2535458188883243;6:
> > 2533274815946143;5:
> > I sort of disagree. Sure you may be underwhelmed with some of those things but every games brought something fresh be unique to the sandbox. What I think infinite needs is a lot of true unique new aspects and cover all the old. My only complaint between games is the loss of some weapons of vehicles for seemingly no reason.
>
> fresh and unique how? every gun in H5 does the same thing with nothing different

Opinions aside I’d hardly say they have nothing different. Using that logic they are apparently literally carbon copies of each other. Between halo 4 and 5 the promethean weapons were on their own different between both games. Not to mention the req system gave us plenty of different variety on how weapons fire, work, and even look.

Like you can have your stance, that’s fine, but it’s impossible to say they aren’t different in any way whatsoever.

8

There’s only so many different style of weapons you could possibly have. If the guns in the same niche function differently I have no problem with that. Now saying that there are some guns that definitely could be changed a bit more so that they feel more different such as the scattershot, bolt shot, and suppressor.

9

> 2533274815946143;7:
> > 2535458188883243;6:
> > > 2533274815946143;5:
> > > I sort of disagree. Sure you may be underwhelmed with some of those things but every games brought something fresh be unique to the sandbox. What I think infinite needs is a lot of true unique new aspects and cover all the old. My only complaint between games is the loss of some weapons of vehicles for seemingly no reason.
> >
> > fresh and unique how? every gun in H5 does the same thing with nothing different
>
> Opinions aside I’d hardly say they have nothing different. Using that logic they are apparently literally carbon copies of each other. Between halo 4 and 5 the promethean weapons were on their own different between both games. Not to mention the req system gave us plenty of different variety on how weapons fire, work, and even look.
>
> Like you can have your stance, that’s fine, but it’s impossible to say they aren’t different in any way whatsoever.

They all do the same thing, functionally all the same too since you just ADS and hold the trigger ( or press it rapidly ) the req system isn’t variety since it’s just straight upgrades with no differing functionality over the base variants ( also H5’s promethean weapons are completely uninspired…woohoo tracking weapons…never seen that before )

10

The Beam Rifle and the Covenant Carbine gave an effective way for Covenant NPCs to engage their enemies at medium and long-range while supplying the player with good weapons if they are defeated.

Litteraly, hostile NPCs in the first game have a noticeable high attack range by the Fuel Rod Gun and the Wraith

but those weapons don’t have enough projectile speed to be a credible threat to the player. No Halo game is lacking missions where you can engage over good distances, with the Combat Evolved sandbox, it would be one-sided everytime and not a challenge. That being good or bad is another story.

And Elite players in Invasion even worse, Spartans would have the Pistol and Elites don’t.

The Plasma Rifle in Halo 2 is still accurate enough to snipe a stationnary enemy, the shots go straight but don’t start from the same point, it’s like on CE.

11

> 2533274964556797;10:
> The Beam Rifle and the Covenant Carbine gave an effective way for Covenant NPCs to engage their enemies at medium and long-range while supplying the player with good weapons if they are defeated.
>
> Litteraly, hostile NPCs in the first game have a noticeable high attack range by the Fuel Rod Gun and the Wraith

While they were needed, not much was done to diversify them from human equivalents. Reach did a decent job of this with the needle rifle (combine system) and Focus RIfle.

12

> 2533274964189700;11:
> While they were needed, not much was done to diversify them from human equivalents. Reach did a decent job of this with the needle rifle (combine system) and Focus RIfle.

True but the Focus Rifle in multiplayer is a lot of trouble, it was often ignored on Boneyard and it’s ‘heavy’ variant (where it’s still at the same location) , it’s not easy to be effective and make it worth at the same time.

Don’t even bother to make a comparison with the Sniper Rifle, they don’t play in the same league.

13

> 2533274964556797;12:
> > 2533274964189700;11:
> > While they were needed, not much was done to diversify them from human equivalents. Reach did a decent job of this with the needle rifle (combine system) and Focus RIfle.
>
> True but the Focus Rifle in multiplayer is a lot of trouble, it was often ignored on Boneyard and it’s ‘heavy’ variant (where it’s still at the same location) , it’s not easy to be effective and make it worth at the same time.
>
> Don’t even bother to make a comparison with the Sniper Rifle, they don’t play in the same league.

That may be true, but it was a much more unique weapon than “Sniper rifle with battery”

14

> 2533274964189700;13:
> That may be true, but it was a much more unique weapon than “Sniper rifle with battery”

Mostly a loud (impact) and blinding Sentinel Beam with a scope, an incredibly rare weapon in matchmaking (and only one map has the weapon as a default pick up in Halo 2) .

15

> 2533274964556797;10:
> The Beam Rifle and the Covenant Carbine gave an effective way for Covenant NPCs to engage their enemies at medium and long-range while supplying the player with good weapons if they are defeated.

What if I told you that we could give the Covenant long range weapons without just giving them a BR and a Sniper rifle with a mustache?

> Litteraly, hostile NPCs in the first game have a noticeable high attack range by the Fuel Rod Gun and the Wraith
>
> but those weapons don’t have enough projectile speed to be a credible threat to the player. No Halo game is lacking missions where you can engage over good distances, with the Combat Evolved sandbox, it would be one-sided everytime and not a challenge. That being good or bad is another story.

This isn’t quite as gemain to the main issue, but giving the primary antagonists of the game slower projectile weapons was deliberate because dodging projectiles is inherently more engaging than winning a dice role where they AI misses with their hitscan weapon. This is the reason that Jackals with Beam Rifles are so notorious. You don’t “dodge” any Sniper Jackal shots, the AI is just programmed to miss a certain amount of the time, but I digress

> And Elite players in Invasion even worse, Spartans would have the Pistol and Elites don’t.
>
> The Plasma Rifle in Halo 2 is still accurate enough to snipe a stationnary enemy, the shots go straight but don’t start from the same point, it’s like on CE.

The lack of truly diverse and interesting sandbox is part of the problem with Invasion, they treated an inherently asymmetrical gamemode like Invasion like it was symmetrical by giving them weapons like the boring reskin Plasma Repeater. Imagine Elites actually started with a CE style Plasma Rifle with solid accuracy, a headshot multiplier, and plasma stun instead of just giving them a slow, blue AR? Balance doesn’t just mean giving all factions and weapons the exact same capabilities. If that were the case I guess the Plasma Pistol ought to have a fast projectile with a 2X scope and instant kill headshot…

> 2533274964556797;12:
> True but the Focus Rifle in multiplayer is a lot of trouble, it was often ignored on Boneyard and it’s ‘heavy’ variant (where it’s still at the same location) , it’s not easy to be effective and make it worth at the same time.
>
> Don’t even bother to make a comparison with the Sniper Rifle, they don’t play in the same league.

The issue at hand isn’t about specific weapon balance. You could of course make the argument that the Focus Rifle is underpowered, I would agree with you, but the point is that the Focus Rifle is unique weapon that isn’t just a purple sniper rifle. The Focus Rifle doesn’t need to be on the exact same tier as the UNSC Sniper Rifle to be worth using or to have a place in the sandbox.

The Focus Rifle gives the Covenant a long range capable weapon that doesn’t just a sniper rifle clone. Essentially I just want a Halo sandbox where every weapon is as different from one another as the Plasma Pistol and Magnum are from each other. Both those weapons are the “sidearms” of their respective faction, but they fill very different roles.

16

Aye, I agree with the majority of the post that the weapon sandbox hasn’t been at its max potential that it could be. Another issue that I have seen with the sandbox is that the weapons variety feels more like increasing the lethality of the gun rather than it being a “puzzle”. Now of course this wouldn’t be too detrimental if it didn’t rely on lethality for weapon variety but I don’t think this is really the case after previous installments from 343. An example was the weapons in the H5 req packs, but the game mode they were supposed to occupy was never intentionally meant for balance so…

I don’t blame 343 or Bungie though, it can be difficult to add on or innovate on the weapon sandbox without it overlapping with each other or being too similar to other games. Although I find it very difficult to make guns like the Sidekick and the Mangiler not follow the headshot niche or the SMG and the plasma rifle not being a bullet hose. If you had any input on how you would improve the weapon sandbox that would be nice.

I guess I’ll try to compose some ideas to help improve the weapon sandbox but these are just on the top of my head
Ravager: More reactive with the fusion coils generating bigger explosions, can shoot upwards similar to how a mortar fires,
Mangiler: Maybe an option to charge the gun and propel slow Banished projectiles used to provide as a chokepoint (Like how the Promethean grenades worked recently), but costing the full mag
Sidekick: Personally, I feel like the sidekick suits its function as a sidearm and doesn’t overlap as much as the other M6 magnums.

My personal own ideas:
More weapons that interact with the sandbox, this could lead to something like a gravity gun that can fling fusion coils, enemies, cover, yourself, etc.
Or weapons that interact and maybe adapt/change to the environment, Flamethrowers that can create smoke making it difficult to see from long ranges, Ice guns that can change the surface to be more slippery etc.

17

> 2535453408431289;16:
> Aye, I agree with the majority of the post that the weapon sandbox hasn’t been at its max potential that it could be. Another issue that I have seen with the sandbox is that the weapons variety feels more like increasing the lethality of the gun rather than it being a “puzzle”. Now of course this wouldn’t be too detrimental if it didn’t rely on lethality for weapon variety but I don’t think this is really the case after previous installments from 343. An example was the weapons in the H5 req packs, but the game mode they were supposed to occupy was never intentionally meant for balance so…
>
> I don’t blame 343 or Bungie though, it can be difficult to add on or innovate on the weapon sandbox without it overlapping with each other or being too similar to other games. Although I find it very difficult to make guns like the Sidekick and the Mangiler not follow the headshot niche or the SMG and the plasma rifle not being a bullet hose. If you had any input on how you would improve the weapon sandbox that would be nice.
>
> I guess I’ll try to compose some ideas to help improve the weapon sandbox but these are just on the top of my head
> Ravager: More reactive with the fusion coils generating bigger explosions, can shoot upwards similar to how a mortar fires,
> Mangiler: Maybe an option to charge the gun and propel slow Banished projectiles used to provide as a chokepoint (Like how the Promethean grenades worked recently), but costing the full mag
> Sidekick: Personally, I feel like the sidekick suits its function as a sidearm and doesn’t overlap as much as the other M6 magnums.
>
> **My personal own ideas:**More weapons that interact with the sandbox, this could lead to something like a gravity gun that can fling fusion coils, enemies, cover, yourself, etc.
> Or weapons that interact and maybe adapt/change to the environment, Flamethrowers that can create smoke making it difficult to see from long ranges, Ice guns that can change the surface to be more slippery etc.

I always felt that this never made it into Halo but should be. Especially on BTB maps and CTF.

18

I agree to some extend, but I don’t think having weapons in the same niche with similar function is completely bad and I would not use the word “it sucks”.
I think it is expected from weapons in the same niche to work similarly. Example, you expect lauchers to… you know, launch a projectile. It is something you just cannot avoid and this is a limitation that keeps things organized.
What can be done (and this is most noticeable with Halo 5 weapon variants) is to alter some of the values of each weapon like rate of fire, projectile x hitscan, auto fire, damage per bullet, reload, type of ammo, physics, tracking abilities and so on while it still maintains their niche.
This change of values, in my opinion may be enough for me to feel a weapon is different from the other depending on how drastic these values are altered. It is not so easy to make revolutionary weapons and make them fit into the same niche all the time, this would definitely lead to less weapons in the sandbox, because you cannot make every weapon completely different from the other, but I agree there is always room for improvement.

19

> 2533275010793662;18:
> I agree to some extend, but I don’t think having weapons in the same niche with similar function is completely bad and I would not use the word “it sucks”.
> I think it is expected from weapons in the same niche to work similarly. Example, you expect lauchers to… you know, launch a projectile. It is something you just cannot avoid and this is a limitation that keeps things organized.
> What can be done (and this is most noticeable with Halo 5 weapon variants) is to alter some of the values of each weapon like rate of fire, projectile x hitscan, auto fire, damage per bullet, reload, type of ammo, physics, tracking abilities and so on while it still maintains their niche.
> This change of values, in my opinion may be enough for me to feel a weapon is different from the other depending on how drastic these values are altered. It is not so easy to make revolutionary weapons and make them fit into the same niche all the time, this would definitely lead to less weapons in the sandbox, because you cannot make every weapon completely different from the other, but I agree there is always room for improvement.

A significant portion of the sandbox should not be limited to being mere window dressing. We don’t have to compromise the sandbox to any significant degree to achieve the goal of true diversity. Between the various Halo games and even some of H5’s req variant we absolutely can build a robust sandbox without defaulting to reskins.

You can tweak the values all you want, but if the end result is the same then what is the point? Its not as if the sandboxes even need to be wildly divergent and wacky to fill a unique place in the sandbox. You mention "launchers: like we don’t have very clear examples of the Rocket, grenade, and Plasma launchers that all “launch a projectile” with a variety of mechanics and effects. The Focus Rifle and Sniper rifle both are broadly long range marksman weapons, but the way you use the Focus Rifle is fundamentally different front he way you use the human Sniper. Same goes for Plasma Pistol vs Magnum or Grenade Launcher vs Concussion Rifle which are other “equivalents” that are not just basic reskins.

Filling the sandbox with unique weapon doesn’t really require us to reduce the sandbox, it just requires the devs to make better choices regarding which weapons make the cut. The bottom line is that developer time and resources are not infinite so there is a limit on how many weapons the team can realistically design, model, and balance before launch. You could hypothetically stuff more weapons in if you are are only sticking to the same few archetypes, but you are not improving the game in any material way outside of adding more pretty colors at the expense of true variety.

20

Great write up, I share your sentiment that the potential state of the weapons will be quite sedentary. I suppose this many titles in developers are stuck thinking within the box, more-so about how to not piss off the remaining crowd with whatever complaints about artstyle are popping up this week or getting complacent with the trajectory it’s currently heading. Have you checked out Ruby’s Rebalanced Halo (Fill in the number) campaign mods? It sounds like it would be right up your alley.