Weapon, Melee, Grenade. The golden triangle that differentiated Halo from the rest. Remember that? Halo is not Halo as long as that triangle isn’t always usable. There are too many things that tampered with those three mechanics ever since Halo: Reach. Frank O’ Connor stated in a Halo 5: ViDoc that Spartan Abilities were added in as ‘‘a fourth layer that everyone has’’. With that fourth layer being; Sprint, Spartan Charge, Clamber, Slide, Ground Pound, Thrusters and Smart-Link. With the exception of Thrusters all of these abilities have one thing in common; they restrict your access to using weapons, melee and grenades at all times while using them.
You can’t shoot while sprinting, you can’t shoot while Ground Pounding, you can’t throw a grenade while clambering etc. So this ‘‘fourth layer’’ isn’t a fourth layer at all, they are just a bunch of mechanics that restrict your access to the way Halo was meant to be played. Now before you attack me on the before mentioned, let me explain why the golden triangle IS Halo. Tyson Green, the multiplayer designer of Halo 2 stated that people shouldn’t spawn with dual wielded weapons because they ‘‘break the game’’ as nobody would us melee anymore and dual wielding restricted your ability the throw grenades. So Bungie decided that dual wield spawns were a no-go because they interfered with the golden triangle of Halo.
This is the exact same problem that we have with Halo today. People are constantly talking about Sprint, but sprint is merely a part of the problem. Abilities like sprint that don’t respect the Halo sandbox are the problem. The golden triangle IS Halo, whether you like it or not, that’s the way the game has been designed from the ground up. And anything that messes with that doesn’t belong in there. Look at the maps that we got ever since Halo: Reach up till Halo 5. There are very few classics in there compared to Halo 1-3. This is due to the maps losing their creative ability to support bare-bones gameplay and thus turning into generic multiplayer maps.
I’ve been saying this as well, but your post will get shouted down by those that think H5 multiplayer is the best multiplayer in any Halo game, EVER!!! I miss Halo 3 multiplayer, now there was the ultimate Halo multiplayer.
I’m not gonna attack you silly. You make a valid point.
However these mechanics get you around the map faster then you normally would and I find that vital for a game like Halo 5 especially in Warzone maps. With a map that large I don’t think anyone would prefer walking.
> 2533274856626311;3:
> I’m not gonna attack you silly. You make a valid point.
>
> However these mechanics get you around the map faster then you normally would and I find that vital for a game like Halo 5 especially in Warzone maps. With a map that large I don’t think anyone would prefer walking.
>
> XO
Maps being “too big” was never an issue in past Halo games, why would it be one now? A well-designed map can accommodate both players on foot and in vehicles. For example, take a look at Avalanche. It was a very large map, but there were plenty of man cannons and teleporters that allowed people who were not in vehicles to get around. If the Warzone maps were well-designed, they would not have any issues with that either.
Not to mention that many maps are artificially stretched out for the sake of being sprint-friendly.
I’m tired of this argument… The majority of kills still result from guns/grenades/melee. How can something “be dead” when it’s still so prominent in the gameplay?
You can’t shoot while you Ground-Pound/sprint/etc. but you can’t shoot when you whiff a melee either. You throw a grenade, you can’t shoot until your weapon is raised… To throw a grenade, you stop shooting. Halo has always had these trade-offs. Risk/reward gameplay in some cases. The new abilities generally complement this long-standing ideal fairly well. And if you think about it, they’re just extensions of melee or simply give additional movement options. That’s all they are…
343 has made a well-designed game… if you don’t like it, that’s fine… but don’t insinuate that they’ve made a bad game or that the game isn’t Halo because that is false. OG elements are still everywhere in this game. Have the new abilities added additional layers to the game? Yes… Do they upset the Golden Triangle? No… It still functions as it should… Is this game a different Halo because of the new abilities? Yes… Is that a bad thing? No… because the game is balanced, well thought-out, and well-made.
You can dislike the game, but you can’t say that H5’s gameplay is bad… Either you’re up-to-speed and open to its overall vision and design, or you’re not.
> 2533274808386392;4:
> > 2533274856626311;3:
> > I’m not gonna attack you silly. You make a valid point.
> >
> > However these mechanics get you around the map faster then you normally would and I find that vital for a game like Halo 5 especially in Warzone maps. With a map that large I don’t think anyone would prefer walking.
> >
> > XO
>
>
> Maps being “too big” was never an issue in past Halo games, why would it be one now? A well-designed map can accommodate both players on foot and in vehicles. For example, take a look at Avalanche. It was a very large map, but there were plenty of man cannons and teleporters that allowed people who were not in vehicles to get around. If the Warzone maps were well-designed, they would not have any issues with that either.
>
> Not to mention that many maps are artificially stretched out for the sake of being sprint-friendly.
Yeah what ever happened to teleporters?
And add more of those and man canons strategically placed around the maps and I’m thinking problem solved as far as getting around.
I really don’t think sprint, thrusters, clamber, groundpound, or spartan charge affects the triangle. Sprinting is more of an option. Just need to know when to use it. Its better to run to the battle then slide rather than running away from the battle since your shields won’t recharge. Spartan charge is basically another form of Melee and so is groundpound. Its about getting the surprise on someone for a kill. None of it will guarantee a kill, as someone can be quick enough to shoot you down before you do any of the attacks. It really depends on how and when you use it. I don’t always use it. All of my opinion btw, which I am entitled to just like yours. Thrusters just adds to style. You can weapon and thrusters. Melee and thrusters. Grenade and thrusters.
> 2533274802932721;7:
> > 2533274808386392;4:
> > > 2533274856626311;3:
> > > I’m not gonna attack you silly. You make a valid point.
> > >
> > > However these mechanics get you around the map faster then you normally would and I find that vital for a game like Halo 5 especially in Warzone maps. With a map that large I don’t think anyone would prefer walking.
> > >
> > > XO
> >
> >
> > Maps being “too big” was never an issue in past Halo games, why would it be one now? A well-designed map can accommodate both players on foot and in vehicles. For example, take a look at Avalanche. It was a very large map, but there were plenty of man cannons and teleporters that allowed people who were not in vehicles to get around. If the Warzone maps were well-designed, they would not have any issues with that either.
> >
> > Not to mention that many maps are artificially stretched out for the sake of being sprint-friendly.
>
>
> Yeah what ever happened to teleporters?
>
> And add more of those and man canons strategically placed around the maps and I’m thinking problem solved as far as getting around.
The innovational futures of man cannons, teleporters and other map travel assets were forgotten in favour of sprint most likely. Why have them present when you have a utility mechanic that artificially speeds up your adventures across the enlarged map for said mechanic.
If sprint was redundant, would anyone use it?
> 2533274856626311;3:
> I’m not gonna attack you silly. You make a valid point.
>
> However these mechanics get you around the map faster then you normally would and I find that vital for a game like Halo 5 especially in Warzone maps. With a map that large I don’t think anyone would prefer walking.
>
> XO
“Normally” would only applies to a closed environment where you can sprint or clamber but choose not to.
Other than that travel times are decided by those who create the maps. Meaning that you get somewhere in a certain amount of time based on present mechanics.
10 seconds of travel time in a sprintless game is still 10 seconds in a game with sprint and clamber.
Goin 100 metres at 10 metres per second is the same time as going 200 metres at 20 m/s.
In warzone you have all kinds of vehicles, can choose spawn points to some degree as well. Not to mention that there still are large dead zones on those maps. Furthermore, Warzone maps would most likely be differently designed if sprint and clamber weren’t present. Man cannons, teleporters, travelators, escalators, vehicles etc.
I have seen it too, and it changed my perspective, but not my stance. You guys are interpreting it like the golden triangle always has to be used at all times. That’s not the case I’m sorry to say. The halo 2 guy you mentioned said that dual wielding affected the golden triangle, but they didn’t change it for halo 3. By that logic, the only true halo games were ce and ODST, none of which had matchmaking.
The golden triangle is just what gets you kills. What I think the halo 2 guy meant was that dual wielding disallowed the use 2/3 options, and the last option upgraded the weapons. This is what Spartan charge does, and it is a hated the mechanic. Sprint just eliminates the use of the golden triangle for faster movement speed. It gives players a risk-reward option. I hope you see the other side of this argument like how I did from watching the video. Also, if you play arena, I’ve found that you don’t actually have to sprint to do good.
You cant shoot whilst using a Melee - You cant throw Grenades whilst Shooting - You cant Melee as your throwing a GrenadeYou have to wait a second after you Melee, Shoot or grenade to use another ability which is similar to the Spartan ability’s, you never use two ability’s at exactly the same time.
Some of the new ability’s do add restrictions but every game since 2 has restricted the player in some way, Ground pound and Spartan charge as controversial as they are count as a Melee so they fit as a part of the triangle, smart scopes new animation allows you to still shoot along with sliding and trusting, clamber along with sprint seems to be the only ones that hurts the triangle or possibly square that it is now.
Vulnerable for a few seconds whilst you use Equipment in Halo 3 - Vulnerable for a few seconds after using certain armour ability’s in Reach and 4 - Cant Melee or Grenade immediately when Dual wielding in Halo 2 and 3 - Melee wasn’t as strong in ODST
I’m not saying that Spartan ability’s are the best thing for Halos MP but they are a lot better than Armour ability’s which actually did hinder the triangle, Spartan ability’s like the triangle are meant to be used in succession with each other to perform combos.
This argument is very stupid and can easily be countered. It should hopefully die away quickly.
If mechanics that restrict the “golden triangle” should be removed then so should the golden triangle itself. Can you shoot/throw while meleeing? Can you melee/shoot while throwing? Can you throw/melee while shooting? No. We should also remove all vehicles because we can’t shoot throw or melee, right? Spartan abilities are only options and mechanics that spice up the game and vary it while also giving more options in approaching. These restrictions are only present to balance out these certain mechanics. And don’t let me mention you don’t even have to use them. Just walk and shoot, it’s simple if you’re really that hurt by such a hypocritical reason.
Spartan Charge and Ground pounding are just different variations of normal meleeing. The only change is either giving a different option of approaching an enemy or and up in the attack. Spartan Charge just gives you a boost forward for the Spartan to melee the enemy. Ground pound is just meleeing an enemy while falling from above. All 3 also share one thing, it’s the restriction of shooting and throwing.
What is Sprinting? It’s just a quick boost in speed. What is clambering? All it does is let you reach into higher areas. Halo has never been about the golden triangle. Hence why it took them over 3 years to remove dual-wielding off the game. The only 2 games that ever unrestricted the golden triangle (not really since all the 3 mechanics restrict each other somehow) are Halo: CE and ODST. Both are extremely empty and repetitive.
> 2812739231567241;2:
> I’ve been saying this as well, but your post will get shouted down by those that think H5 multiplayer is the best multiplayer in any Halo game, EVER!!! I miss Halo 3 multiplayer, now there was the ultimate Halo multiplayer.
Very nicely stated and good argument, I like that you brought up the game designer for Halo 2, helps put a prospective on what the “golden triangle” actually is. But I have to agree 100%, too many changes have made Halo not Halo.
i really don’t see the need for any spartan abilities except the thruster pack, sprint and maybe smart like (i can live without zoom for all weps, did that for 6 halo games before h5)
honestly, the only times i even used ground pound and sp charge was to finish the commendations and the stabilizing when zoomed is more of a pain than useful…id have jumped and zoomed like how i did in prev games and end up hovering in mid air as a easy target for ppl.
h6 with just the aforementionned abilities would be great, since they are for navigation only (did not mention clamber and slide as they are part of sprint/thruster packs imo)
> 2535461287427665;14:
> Very nicely stated and good argument, I like that you brought up the game designer for Halo 2, helps put a prospective on what the “golden triangle” actually is. But I have to agree 100%, too many changes have made Halo not Halo.
The game designer also decided to leave dual-wielding and have types of equipment in Halo 3
> 2533274802932721;7:
> > 2533274808386392;4:
> > > 2533274856626311;3:
> > > I’m not gonna attack you silly. You make a valid point.
> > >
> > > However these mechanics get you around the map faster then you normally would and I find that vital for a game like Halo 5 especially in Warzone maps. With a map that large I don’t think anyone would prefer walking.
> > >
> > > XO
> >
> >
> > Maps being “too big” was never an issue in past Halo games, why would it be one now? A well-designed map can accommodate both players on foot and in vehicles. For example, take a look at Avalanche. It was a very large map, but there were plenty of man cannons and teleporters that allowed people who were not in vehicles to get around. If the Warzone maps were well-designed, they would not have any issues with that either.
> >
> > Not to mention that many maps are artificially stretched out for the sake of being sprint-friendly.
>
>
> Yeah what ever happened to teleporters?
>
> And add more of those and man canons strategically placed around the maps and I’m thinking problem solved as far as getting around.
Confused as to why I’m being bantered ?.?
I said the guy made a valid point with movement and then I proceeded to just say that the scale of maps since the beginning has scaled tremendously. It takes time to get from one end to the other walking normally on a Warzone map. I wasn’t saying something impossible :\
Why are gaming communities becoming so negative and “know it all factor” these days?
> 2533274968894951;1:
> Weapon, Melee, Grenade. The golden triangle that differentiated Halo from the rest. Remember that? Halo is not Halo as long as that triangle isn’t always usable. There are too many things that tampered with those three mechanics ever since Halo: Reach. Frank O’ Connor stated in a Halo 5: ViDoc that Spartan Abilities were added in as ‘‘a fourth layer that everyone has’’. With that fourth layer being; Sprint, Spartan Charge, Clamber, Slide, Ground Pound, Thrusters and Smart-Link. With the exception of Thrusters all of these abilities have one thing in common; they restrict your access to using weapons, melee and grenades at all times while using them.
>
> You can’t shoot while sprinting, you can’t shoot while Ground Pounding, you can’t throw a grenade while clambering etc. So this ‘‘fourth layer’’ isn’t a fourth layer at all, they are just a bunch of mechanics that restrict your access to the way Halo was meant to be played. Now before you attack me on the before mentioned, let me explain why the golden triangle IS Halo. Tyson Green, the multiplayer designer of Halo 2 stated that people shouldn’t spawn with dual wielded weapons because they ‘‘break the game’’ as nobody would us melee anymore and dual wielding restricted your ability the throw grenades. So Bungie decided that dual wield spawns were a no-go because they interfered with the golden triangle of Halo.
>
> This is the exact same problem that we have with Halo today. People are constantly talking about Sprint, but sprint is merely a part of the problem. Abilities like sprint that don’t respect the Halo sandbox are the problem. The golden triangle IS Halo, whether you like it or not, that’s the way the game has been designed from the ground up. And anything that messes with that doesn’t belong in there. Look at the maps that we got ever since Halo: Reach up till Halo 5. There are very few classics in there compared to Halo 1-3. This is due to the maps losing their creative ability to support bare-bones gameplay and thus turning into generic multiplayer maps.
You are my new best friend. What a way to present a topic and then just completely creating a rock solid point that no one can argue against. Bravo my friend. I completely agree.
> 2533274873580796;5:
> I’m tired of this argument… The majority of kills still result from guns/grenades/melee. How can something “be dead” when it’s still so prominent in the gameplay?
>
> You can’t shoot while you Ground-Pound/sprint/etc. but you can’t shoot when you whiff a melee either. You throw a grenade, you can’t shoot until your weapon is raised… To throw a grenade, you stop shooting. Halo has always had these trade-offs. Risk/reward gameplay in some cases. The new abilities generally complement this long-standing ideal fairly well. And if you think about it, they’re just extensions of melee or simply give additional movement options. That’s all they are…
>
> 343 has made a well-designed game… if you don’t like it, that’s fine… but don’t insinuate that they’ve made a bad game or that the game isn’t Halo because that is false. OG elements are still everywhere in this game. Have the new abilities added additional layers to the game? Yes… Do they upset the Golden Triangle? No… It still functions as it should… Is this game a different Halo because of the new abilities? Yes… Is that a bad thing? No… because the game is balanced, well thought-out, and well-made.
>
> You can dislike the game, but you can’t say that H5’s gameplay is bad… Either you’re up-to-speed and open to its overall vision and design, or you’re not.
THAT IS NOT THE POINT. This fourth layer is useless because it adds to many RANDOM elements to the gameplay. Back in Halo 1-3, you could stand still, walk, run, melee, shoot weapon, throw a grenade, and use a vehicle. In Halo 5, you have that, plus sprint, Spartan charge, ground pound, slide, thrusters, and smart scope. WE DON’T NEED EXTENDED MOVEMENT OPTIONS. Halo had a unique formula that stood out among other FPS. Taking away that uniqueness has done more damage than good. Reviews, community participation, and population have reflected that.
> 2535434222156554;16:
> > 2535461287427665;14:
> > Very nicely stated and good argument, I like that you brought up the game designer for Halo 2, helps put a prospective on what the “golden triangle” actually is. But I have to agree 100%, too many changes have made Halo not Halo.
>
>
> The game designer also decided to leave dual-wielding and have types of equipment in Halo 3
Dual wielding weapons and equipment are in-map pick ups, not things the player spawns with. Completely different from Halo 5’s spartan abilities, which everyone has and uses many times per life.
