The Golden triangle is Dead, here is why.

Bungie refers to the “weapons-grenades-melee” format as the “Golden Triangle of Halo,” which has remained fundamentally unchanged throughout the trilogy… Until Halo 5 and even Reach. Why is this ruined in Halo 5? Well lets start with The original Golden triangle back in Halo 3**. And please, actually read this, I’m not ranting about how 343i sucks or anything, I just want people to understand what really makes Halo “Halo”. Also take in mind that the last very successful Halo game, at least in the aspect of multiplayer, was Halo 3, and any successors didn’t exceed.**

  • Well first off, what made Halo 3’s sandbox so great? Take in mind I’m comparing Halo 3 to Halo 5, and even Halo 2. So in Halo 3, what weapons had extreme range? Well there were no primaries that had extreme range, that’s obvious, and the most powerful power weapons in the game were the sniper and the laser, mostly because they had extreme range compared to the other weapons. Besides those weapons, why was Halo 3’s sandbox balanced better than other Halo games? Well in my opinion it’s because there were no long ranged primaries.
  • So why does having no long range primaries help the sandbox? Well lets look at the golden triangle. So weapons-grenades-melee, that’s what the golden triangle is, and guess what, how many of your kills in halo 3 averaged out in that order? For most people, melee was used in Halo 3 quite often, especially combined with close quarters weapons. The AR for example, was extremely useful when engaging in close quarters and finishing the kill with a melee. Now why is this aspect not apparent in Halo 5? Well it really does come down to the fact that the BR, or at least precision weapons, are extremely accurate in Halo 5. Now why does this affect other weapons?
  • If you increase the range on the main precision weapon, then what happens to the other weapons? In Halo 3, the BR did not have range, especially compared to Halo 2, and why is that a good thing? Well the BR’s range in Halo 3 did surpass the AR, but it was not to the extreme like in Halo 2 and instead, it forced the BR user to engage enemies, and in turn made the CQC weapons a viable choice. Whether or not you liked the Halo 3 BR, it at least made the BR not a god tier weapon, which in Halo 2 it was. The thing interesting with Halo 2 though, was that it didn’t make the other weapons have extreme range, like the SMG or pistol. So what did Halo 5 do different?
  • Halo 5 added range to every weapon, not just the BR. This is so easy to figure out and yet either 343i is blind to it or they literally don’t care, but when range is added to all weapons, melee becomes used substantially less. This in turn, effects the Golden Triangle that was in the Original Halos. And since the AR was made to flow with melee, now that the range on everything is increased, melee isn’t an option, so then the AR needs a damage buff, to counteract that, which it definitely got in Halo 5.
  • Now, that is the most important reason Halo doesn’t feel like halo anymore, beside core things like aim assist and bullet magnetism, but there are also the new things that also mess with Golden triangle, for instance thruster pack makes grenades extremely easy to evade, and more importantly, used to escape certain death.I guess the only message I can really send to 343i, is to fix the golden triangle, and anything that makes a major change to it, needs to be left out. Thank you for reading.

Alright, after listening to about half of replies state that they think Halo 5 still contains the golden triangle, or, the golden Rectangle anyways.

PLAYER FREEDOM

Does Halo 5 allow as much player freedom as previous Halo’s? Well I can argue that it does not. So I already talked about the golden triangle and range, but what do the armor abilities do to it? Well first off, it isn’t a triangle now, it’s a rectangle. I do not agree with this though, the triangle should remain, and not change, that does not however, mean that things can’t be added via weapons, melee, and grenades.

  • Sprint, sprint offers faster movement at the cost of the player going straight forward, not having his weapon raised, and in Halo 5 you do not regenerate your shield. - Thruster, thruster allows for you to have an instant change in direction, not only getting you out of trouble but also allowing completely random movement that can’t be anticipated by the enemy. - Spartan charge, not a big deal, leaves you looking like an idiot when rushing towards anyone, but can also be used as a thruster to get around corners faster. - Slide, again, not a big deal, and honestly I don’t think it changes gameplay enough to even have. - Ground pound, not a big deal, but will probably end up being very annoying because it’s an instant kill.So sprint, thruster, spartan charge, slide, and ground pound, the new abilities everyone has.

First lets talk about sprint. Sprint can be used to get closer to an enemy, but at the cost of not being able to shoot or recharging shields. This means that the camping player has a huge advantage over the sprinter, the sprinter can’t fire back, while getting shot, and his shield won’t recharge, but the enemy shooting him will be doing damage, have full control on his movements, have the better position (most of the time) and able to recharge his shields. Sprinting is not a good option, in other words. And everyone saying that you can easily get melee kills, no, if you are versing a decent team melee will not hardly ever be a factor in Halo 5.

Now lets talk about thruster pack. Thruster pack allows for you to instantly evade an incoming grenade, and also allows to evade someone shooting at you, especially when you are camping by a corner. This allows for easier camping strategies and is obviously very cheap.

Now what the poop does this have to do with player freedom? Some of this stuff sounds like it allows more? No, it doesn’t, and here’s why.

The maps in Halo 5 are huge, whether or not it’s because of sprint, but sprint is still in the game, and weapons still have extreme range. So if you see a guy camping in the back of the map, you either get closer or stay back. Staying back allows you to be safer, next to your corner with thruster pack, engaging leaves you more open and you will be easier for the enemy to engage you. Well that’s why you have sprint, so you can run really fast to the enemies location and get melee kills like in Halo 3… Nope, sprinting towards your enemy just leaves you even more open, and you can’t fire back, nor recharge you shields, and that’s not the worst part, the worst part is that the enemy can thrust behind his corner, even if you hurt him, he will still hurt you more. So… when weapons have extreme range and the maps are huge there is no reason to engage. The only reason to engage is if the gametype is an objective, which is not as popular as slayer.

That’s why player freedom is lessened, even though there may be more things to do, most of them are not the viable choice, and will end up with the enemies crotch on your face. This is just one of the situations I can come up with, but I can guarantee that thruster will be a super cheap factor later on, and I can also guarantee that camping is the best choice easily over 50% of the time.

I can still see myself using all of it. The faster movement mechanics allow you to get up close and personal faster which balances with extra range. I use grenades as the enemy rounds the corner anyways in which case they can’t react fast enough. I think the triangle is still an integral part of Halo 5.

343 dont change this or that, we cant have new elements, we need halo 2/3 every year. You need to learn to adapt. Thats all humans ever did, why is there a problem adding a new movement to the sand box to help this from getting stale. Adapt to use this to your advantage. who cares if you break a triangle, something new has to come eventually

> 2533274915983628;3:
> 343 dont change this or that, we cant have new elements, we need halo 2/3 every year. You need to learn to adapt. Thats all humans ever did, why is there a problem adding a new movement to the sand box to help this from getting stale. Adapt to use this to your advantage. who cares if you break a triangle, something new has to come eventually

Sorry for lashing out, i got plenty of melee kills in the beta so im not worried.

> 2533274891841289;2:
> I can still see myself using all of it. The faster movement mechanics allow you to get up close and personal faster which balances with extra range. I use grenades as the enemy rounds the corner anyways in which case they can’t react fast enough. I think the triangle is still an integral part of Halo 5.

The faster movement mechanics, especially sprint, leave a person open for a direct attack, and thruster pack allows someone who’s camping to evade back across the corner they were camping at, and the maps are undeniably bigger, making camping an even more viable choice than past Halo’s, maybe besides Reach.

I think this is really interesting and I’ve never thought of that before. I wonder if weapons having much more range is caused by the maps being stretched-out and open for sprint. I’ve noticed that people tend to stay in cover and run away more in Halo 5 as opposed to the way people bounced around in Halo 3.

Melee is still relevant since you can close in very fast on opponents with thruster pack and sprint.

The golden triangle still lives on.

> 2533274915983628;4:
> > 2533274915983628;3:
> > 343 dont change this or that, we cant have new elements, we need halo 2/3 every year. You need to learn to adapt. Thats all humans ever did, why is there a problem adding a new movement to the sand box to help this from getting stale. Adapt to use this to your advantage. who cares if you break a triangle, something new has to come eventually
>
>
> Sorry for lashing out, i got plenty of melee kills in the beta so im not worried.

the golden triangle is Halo though, just like changing COD Black ops 2 and then going to COD AW, one of the two is not COD anymore. Halo is not “Halo” anymore. At least that is my opinion, but I would suspect it to be others also.

> 2533274805712917;6:
> I think this is really interesting and I’ve never thought of that before. I wonder if weapons having much more range is caused by the maps being stretched-out and open for sprint. I’ve noticed that people tend to stay in cover and run away more in Halo 5 as opposed to the way people bounced around in Halo 3.

Or maybe the range increase is partly because of warzone, therefore they needed to make arena maps bigger.

> 2533274832140639;8:
> > 2533274915983628;4:
> > > 2533274915983628;3:
> > > 343 dont change this or that, we cant have new elements, we need halo 2/3 every year. You need to learn to adapt. Thats all humans ever did, why is there a problem adding a new movement to the sand box to help this from getting stale. Adapt to use this to your advantage. who cares if you break a triangle, something new has to come eventually
> >
> >
> > Sorry for lashing out, i got plenty of melee kills in the beta so im not worried.
>
>
> the golden triangle is Halo though, just like changing COD Black ops 2 and then going to COD AW, one of the two is not COD anymore. Halo is not “Halo” anymore. At least that is my opinion, but I would suspect it to be others also.

The triangle isnt why i loved halo, hell, even if nades were out id still love it.

I don’t feel like the golden triangle has been violated in any way. It’s still very apparent and the core part of Halo. Just because certain weapons have range now doesn’t mean that CC is any less effective, especially with the additions of thruster, shoulder charge and sliding (great for shotguns, Destiny style.)

Good read, and while I see what you are getting at, I respectfully disagree.

The Halo “feel” is unique (from your post, I know we agree on that), but I don’t believe its creation is limited to this “Golden Triangle.” You state that Halo 3 adhered to this model and therefore adopted the “feel” better than the previous title (if that isn’t what you are saying, then I apologize), and you are correct about Halo 3’s multiplayer definitely “feeling Halo,” but lets go back to Halo: CE. In Halo: CE, in every multiplayer match (LAN, SS and even XBL on the MCC) you are equip with a Magnum, arguably the most powerful weapon ever to be used in Halo. The Magnum dealt more damage than any of the other non-power weapons, held more ammunition than any power weapon and had range that made you feel like a Sniper when using it. While the Magnum and the Sniper Rifle were two of the only real “ranged” weapons in CE, they were plentiful enough to compare to this plethora of ranged weapons in the newer Halo games.
From my experience in Halo: CE, melee was something awful to resort to. If you managed to hit someone, the time it took to bring your gun to bare almost certainly killed you unless it was a 1 on 1 situation.

I know i’m wording this terribly, but essentially what I’m trying to say is that Halo: CE, arguably the game with the most Halo “feel” to it out of any of them, also breaks this Golden Triangle, but does nothing to change how the game feels.
Halo 4 felt Halo to me, that is why I love it.
The Halo 5 beta felt Halo to me, that is why I’m confident Ill love Halo 5 as well.

Bungie created a “magical” multiplayer in Halo 3, but I don’t think Halo can only be Halo when limited to those margins.

Hmmmm I find everything about the movements adds to the trinity for me. A well timed thrust into the right direction should save you from a last effort grenade throw from the opponent you just defeated. The beggiest thing that will affect the trinity is not having autos that suck lol. There goes a majority of my melee medals :p.

Hmmm Halo 3’s sandbox was terrible! All these cool guns that no one bothered to go after if they were playing to win. Duel wield made the smaller guns useless on their own. AR start is unplayable if the other teams locks down BRs( even if they have below average shot).

“AR being made to flow with melee” is what we tell ourself to avoid how terrible bungee was at balancing autos.

i was still bouncing grenades off wa lls before cleaning up a room with headshots and beating ppl down through out the beta. I honestly am not worried about the trinity.

Something else I need to add or make a whole new topic about, is what they have done to player freedom, something that games and developers don’t understand, besides Bethesda and somewhat Bungie in their early days.

This is yet another byproduct of sprint

Sprint causes elongated maps. Elongated maps require weapons to have further ranges.

> 2533274838804559;12:
> Good read, and while I see what you are getting at, I respectfully disagree.
>
> The Halo “feel” is unique (from your post, I know we agree on that), but I don’t believe its creation is limited to this “Golden Triangle.” You state that Halo 3 adhered to this model and therefore adopted the “feel” better than the previous title (if that isn’t what you are saying, than I apologize), and you are correct about Halo 3’s multiplayer definitely “feeling Halo,” but lets go back to Halo: CE. In Halo: CE, in every multiplayer match (LAN, SS and even XBL on the MCC) you are equip with a Magnum, arguably the most powerful weapon ever to be used in Halo. The Magnum dealt more damage than any of the other non-power weapons, held more ammunition than any power weapon and had range that made you feel like a Sniper when using it. While the Magnum and the Sniper Rifle were two of the only real “ranged” weapons in CE, they were plentiful enough to compare to this plethora of ranged weapons in the newer Halo games.
> From my experience in Halo: CE, melee was something awful to resort to. If you managed to hit someone, the time it took to bring your gun to bare almost certainly killed you unless it was a 1 on 1 situation.
>
> I know i’m wording this terribly, but essentially what I’m trying to say is that Halo: CE, arguably the game with the most Halo “feel” to it out of any of them, also breaks this Golden Triangle, but does nothing to change how the game feels.
> Halo 4 felt Halo to me, that is why I love it.
> The Halo 5 beta felt Halo to me, that is why I’m confident Ill love Halo 5 as well.
>
> Bungie created a “magical” multiplayer in Halo 3, but I don’t think Halo can only be Halo when limited to those margins.

To put it simply, I don’t ever relate anything to Halo CE, it was not even supposed to be competitive, and Halo 3 was the natural evolution of Halo 2, which was trying to be competitive.

…if the game is always played on flat, open surfaces, sure.

But it’s not. It’s played on maps with cover and areas with entry/exit points.

> 2535434698932794;15:
> This is yet another byproduct of sprint
>
> Sprint causes elongated maps. Elongated maps require weapons to have further ranges.

No, me and my older brother talked for days about this, and we couldn’t figure it out quite fully until warzone was shown off. Because of the size of warzone, weapons needed more range, more range meant that arena maps needed to be bigger. Now you can combine that with sprint AND thruster pack. That’s why maps are bigger, therefore making melee the less viable choice.

While Halo may feel like the triangle to you, to me its something else. There are many ways to define Halo, as well as many games that use the “Golden Triangle” MW2 and MW1 are great examples of solid CoD games which revolve around the golden triangle

Halo has always been about the ability to always fight back. In any other shooter, seeing someone before they see you, or shooting them before they shoot you, is essentially a guaranteed kill. In Halo, Spartans have the ability to turn around and fight, the use their surrounding to their advantage and to turn an ambush into something positive. That is what Halo will always be about to me

> 2533274832140639;16:
> > 2533274838804559;12:
> > Good read, and while I see what you are getting at, I respectfully disagree.
> >
> > The Halo “feel” is unique (from your post, I know we agree on that), but I don’t believe its creation is limited to this “Golden Triangle.” You state that Halo 3 adhered to this model and therefore adopted the “feel” better than the previous title (if that isn’t what you are saying, than I apologize), and you are correct about Halo 3’s multiplayer definitely “feeling Halo,” but lets go back to Halo: CE. In Halo: CE, in every multiplayer match (LAN, SS and even XBL on the MCC) you are equip with a Magnum, arguably the most powerful weapon ever to be used in Halo. The Magnum dealt more damage than any of the other non-power weapons, held more ammunition than any power weapon and had range that made you feel like a Sniper when using it. While the Magnum and the Sniper Rifle were two of the only real “ranged” weapons in CE, they were plentiful enough to compare to this plethora of ranged weapons in the newer Halo games.
> > From my experience in Halo: CE, melee was something awful to resort to. If you managed to hit someone, the time it took to bring your gun to bare almost certainly killed you unless it was a 1 on 1 situation.
> >
> > I know i’m wording this terribly, but essentially what I’m trying to say is that Halo: CE, arguably the game with the most Halo “feel” to it out of any of them, also breaks this Golden Triangle, but does nothing to change how the game feels.
> > Halo 4 felt Halo to me, that is why I love it.
> > The Halo 5 beta felt Halo to me, that is why I’m confident Ill love Halo 5 as well.
> >
> > Bungie created a “magical” multiplayer in Halo 3, but I don’t think Halo can only be Halo when limited to those margins.
>
>
> To put it simply, I don’t ever relate anything to Halo CE, it was not even supposed to be competitive, and Halo 3 was the natural evolution of Halo 2, which was trying to be competitive.

Well, if you are talking about the “feel” of a Halo game, I would hope you would use Halo: CE as a reference. Every Halo has been competitive and fun, I guess we are just talking about a certain preference to play feel here.