The Future of Explosives

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Hello, dear Waypointers. Please, sit down. Have a biscuit. Let’s talk about grenades.

Or, rather, I’m going to talk about grenades, and you’re going to listen. Sorry. :slight_smile: These are some ideas I had to introduce new/reworked grenades into the sandbox. We probably shouldn’t have too many as that could get needlessly complicated, but I’ll talk about that later. Now, the ideas!

EMP grenade: I see this idea thrown about a lot, but no one ever seems to elaborate. So I will!

  • Small UNSC unit, appears to be a Tesla coil in a housing. Glows blue.
  • Appears on map as just the one grenade, due to the power its effect has.
  • When thrown, sticks to the surface it lands on, and starts producing a Power-drain-esque effect with about half the radius and double/triple the duration.
  • If attached to a vehicle or player, it sticks there and shuts the vehicle down/ drains the shields for as long as it’s attached.
  • It can be destroyed by shooting it if it’s on the ground or on a vehicle, (1 BR/DMR shot, a few AR bullets) or by holding down melee if it’s attached to you. This will start an animation which will leave you temporarily vulnerable, but removes and destroys the grenade.

Since the PP probably won’t be in Halo 5’s loadouts (if Halo 5 even has loadouts), this could be a powerful alternative that players could use in BTB. It would definitely feel better to be on the receiving end of than the PP/PG combo.

Gravity grenade: I feel kind of meh about this one. It would be cool in single-player for wiping out Unngoy Hordes, but I dunno about in Multiplayer.

  • Covenant/Forerunner design. Glows in pulses.
  • When thrown, comes to rest before activating (like a plasma).
  • Lands, and slowly starts generating a gravity field that pulls entities towards it. As the field increases in strength, it drags in everything; grunts, fusion coils, Spartans, forklifts, scorpions… You name it. As with the EMP grenade, you can shoot it before things get too chaotic.
  • Initially entities are simply dragged towards the grenade, but upon reaching it, they are thrown up into the air, swirling around in a vortex. They retain their ability to shoot and use Spartan Abilities (maybe a well-timed thrust could help them to escape?) but throwing grenades will probably not be a good idea.
  • Upon the Grenade’s destruction or expiry, everything drops, doing a small amount of damage.

I can see this requiring quite a bit of aim to hit someone while they’re trapped, and even then, it wouldn’t be that hard to escape. I was serious about the Scorpion, though. Ignoring a problem won’t make it go away.

Reworked Fire and Pulse Grenades: Well, I lie. This isn’t really a reworking as much as an addition. Both of these weren’t as much offensive weapons as area denial tools, with the Pulse being slightly more so. They were bothy epic, though, so I propose giving them both special effects to differentiate them. They both involve map interactivity.

Fire: Allow it to set fire to flammable things. I mean, come on, guys. It’s -Yoink!-ing THERMITE GEL! Look up thermite if you haven’t heard of it. It’s awesome. And it could definitely set fire to a field of dry grass. If this is implemented, then it probably would be restricted to certain maps to prevent people from burning Ragnarok or Blood Gulch to the ground. But it would be a very good contextual tool.

Pulse: As a forerunner weapon, this thing, by definition, kicks -Yoink-. But it lacks… effect. Sure it obliterates victims into glowing cornflakes, but I think it should effect the landscape as well. Imagine lobbing one of those babies at a vital support structure on a giant urban skyscraper and watching that thing fall, a la Battlefield, only better. To prevent abuse, there could be an option in Forge that allows you to choose whether your structures can have circular holes cut in them by Pulses.

If we had all these plus the regulars (I’m not a fan of the spike grenade) then we’d probably need a system that only allowed you to carry only a few types of grenades. Not sure how that would work, but I’ll leave that to you lot!

Please discuss. And enjoy the biscuit.

2

I definitely think Halo is missing a trick not having more grenade types. But if we expanded the grenade sandbox I don’t think we should continue with the current format of having a new grenade slot for every new grenade. I think there should just be 2 grenade slots and we should mirror the weapon pick up system and allow players to swap out grenades. However to avoid a situation where you want to pick up a weapon but accidentally swap grenades have it so you have to hold down the grenade switch button to swap out grenades.

A mini power drainer might be a cool grenade. I think I would have it behave similar to the one in Halo 3. Activating mid flight and rolling around. I think any new grenade type should have unique characteristics and provide new tactics. A frag bounces then explodes, a plasma grenade sticks then explodes, a shock grenade activates mid fight and creates a damage field.

I do quite like the idea of a fire bomb. I wouldn’t have it being an instant kill grenade like in Halo 3 but rather a gradual damage grenade. I prefer it as my area of denial tool of choice since it reacts with vehicles in a much more satisfying way than pulse grenades, setting it on fire.

I do have some ideas for the Pulse grenade though, since it is a sci-fi grenade I would like it being in the game and it is the flagship grenade of a new enemy class. The only thing is it’s kind of a merge between the 2 above grenade types. If it came back I would want it revamping significantly. I wouldn’t want it to explode at all I think it should just be a damaging field kind of like the Vortex grenade in Destiny. And it should do quite a lot of damage fast. I actually don’t think it should ‘snap’, I think it should bounce and nearly immediately activate but then it should float. The key difference being if it hits something in the air it will fall down and levitate just above the ground similar to a Ghost. It should actually be destructible when floating there as well. I was also thinking it could create a low grav area useful for jumps and it could have a minor vehicle stun effect, not as significant as a plasma pistol emp but enough to slow it down, and it should do a lot of damage to a vehicle whilst it is in the field. The aesthetic of the grenade could use improving and the field could have a new pulsating effect. When in the field it would first strip your shields, then cause damage creating an orange electrical effect around the player and a gradual orange cracking disintegration effect on the Armour, then if the player is in it too long they should die then disintegrate. The damage would be stronger the closer you are to the centre and the radius slightly bigger than Halo 4 since it doesn’t need to be balanced for loadouts. This is quite an elaborate revamp but it would be bad -Yoink-.

I also have ideas for a Blamite Grenade based off needler tech except it would detonate into shards/ crystal chunks not needles that explode like a cluster bomb but each shard has the ability to home in on nearby enemies. Kind of a combination of Scatter grenade and swarm grenade from Destiny.

3

I like your ideas. Especially the EMP grenades, if it was Loadout then you could stun vehicles but not have the ability to follow that up with your plasma grenades (unless you found some as a map pick up), one or the other - not both. Balanced. But how long does it take? (As in plasma grenade arming fuse of a second or two then explosion or an instant draining effect.
As for gravity grenades I was thinking more like a gravity generator that pulls anyone in the radius down to slow down / get dragged to wards it so you can’t move through at normal speed. Your idea of pulling in Scorpions and Hornets out of the sky sounds like it could pass as equipment along with an EMP (Halo 3 style) where you throw it down and slowly drains power from its large area of effect, or maybe a blast which instantly disables everything in its AOE.
The pulse grenade terminator style is just yes.
I would personally like a grenade type that explodes on impact, not as powerful as frag (less damage as well as area of effect) but thrown faster. Perhaps Titanfall style mini missile launcher, instead of throw extends wrist and fire a small missile that travels fast but as mentioned does less damage then your typical grenade.
Not sure how to balanced max distance but it could be quite long range.

4

all your ideas i think would work better integrated into the map, what i mean is you could see a fuse box and shoot it and it will burst an electric charge out taking the shields of everyone in their AOE, same thing with gravity and fire. So it won’t be overused and just be annoying.

5

> all your ideas i think would work better integrated into the map, what i mean is you could see a fuse box and shoot it and it will burst an electric charge out taking the shields of everyone in their AOE, same thing with gravity and fire. So it won’t be overused and just be annoying.

That’s a seriously high-voltage fuse box. :slight_smile: My only concern with that would be that as soon as everybody knows about it, those elements will become no-go areas for the things they affect the greatest. Vehicles will steer clear of fuse boxes, infantry from gravity-thingies and thermite pipes. Map movement is stifled.

As to the repetitivity argument, I don’t think frags, plasmas, the assault rifle or SPNKr have gotten annoying yet, do you? But seriously, I think these grenades are more ‘power’ grenades than loadout grenades, if Halo 5 has loadouts, so they’d appear more rarely and make it possible to pass over a patch of dry grass without dying instantly.

6

You didn’t say, but this Emp has about 3 times the duration as Power drainer, so I’m guessing that it still has the ability to explode after duration limit is reached? I like the idea, but still prefer how the Power drainer has a wider effect and can roll towards an enemy. The Power drainer also doesn’t have a wait time like the plasma grenade.

All the Power drainer needs is a better throwing distance, more of a bounce when thrown on the ground or attempting to wall bank, and slightly longer duration (not 2x or 3x duration). Also, I of course would just like for the Grenade launcher to return…

The Pulse grenade is strong as is. Most of the damage takes place at the time it expands, which is instantaneously and when it explodes. They should really buff them to 2 per player.

The gravity grenade would be nice. I imagine it be used to stall for time. Say you are in danger and being pursued heavily. The player can throw it behind him to stop the enemy in their tracks. Unless they thruster at a good point. I can also see it being used to stop an enemy from escaping to a power weapon or vehicle. Imagine someone getting to a Warthog to drive off and the Gravity nade grabs them, surrounding vehicles too, and launches them into the air quickly.

I think after the vortex swirling stops, players and everything else caught should be launched fast to the point that your shields would pop if there was a ceiling or create fall damage. Who knows, after coming back down to earth, you may be crushed by a tank lol. Only one of these gravity nades should be on the map. I am for the return of firebombs.

7

> You didn’t say, but this Emp has about 3 times the duration as Power drainer, so I’m guessing that it still has the ability to explode after duration limit is reached? I like the idea, but still prefer how the Power drainer has a wider effect and can roll towards an enemy. The Power drainer also doesn’t have a wait time like the plasma grenade.
>
> All the Power drainer needs is a better throwing distance, more of a bounce when thrown on the ground or attempting to wall bank, and slightly longer duration (not 2x or 3x duration). Also, I of course would just like for the Grenade launcher to return…
>
> The Pulse grenade is strong as is. Most of the damage takes place at the time it expands, which is instantaneously and when it explodes. They should really buff them to 2 per player.
>
> The gravity grenade would be nice. I imagine it be used to stall for time. Say you are in danger and being pursued heavily. The player can throw it behind him to stop the enemy in their tracks. Unless they thruster at a good point. I can also see it being used to stop an enemy from escaping to a power weapon or vehicle. Imagine someone getting to a Warthog to drive off and the Gravity nade grabs them, surrounding vehicles too, and launches them into the air quickly.
>
> I think after the vortex swirling stops, players and everything else caught should be launched fast to the point that your shields would pop if there was a ceiling or create fall damage. Who knows, after coming back down to earth, you may be crushed by a tank lol. Only one of these gravity nades should be on the map. I am for the return of firebombs.

I never liked equipment, so I referenced the power drain reluctantly. It felt far too powerful to be something that could be devastatingly effective with just one panicked button press in no particular direction. I didn’t think about the EMP grenade exploding afterwards, though. Maybe just a small, insignificant one.

The grenade launcher was okay, IMO. I remember accidentally pulling off some incredible trickshots with it, but it felt… I can’t say weak, because if used right it was a 1sk, but still… I prefer the sticky detonator. A bit. Hey… That gives me an idea for another thread…

I know the Pulse is strong as is, I just think it could have some extra map functionality. If the ionisation sphere can disintegrate MJOLNIR, then it can do the same for brick, plaster, wood, maybe some metal walls. Glad you like the Gravity Grenade idea. Chucking a few Mantises in there would certainly make for a destructive show…

8

Completely different suggestion for Gravity Grenades:

[/li]- Grenade detonates shortly after bouncing on solid ground

  • Upon detonation, grenade produces a spherical zone of reversed gravity, visible as a translucent blue field
  • All objects inside the field are rapidly accelerated upwards
  • As the field is spherical, being closer to the grenade means you’re thrown upwards with greater force
  • Players inside can be splattered against ceilings; players outside may take fall damage
  • As gravity is reversed, the mass of the object is irrelevant; tanks and other vehicles will be thrown up just as easily as players, making this a good ‘soft’ anti-vehicle weapon
  • Non-hitscan projectiles will also be affected by the field
  • Field lasts for 5 seconds or so before dissipating
  • Undecided on whether or not it should be able to move around. Custom option?
9

It would be cool to have an Impact Grenade that explodes as soon as it hits a surface. Like throwing a mortar round. However, it would have to be a tad weaker than a Frag due to the inability to effectively avoid it.

10

> It would be cool to have an Impact Grenade that explodes as soon as it hits a surface. Like throwing a mortar round. However, it would have to be a tad weaker than a Frag due to the inability to effectively avoid it.

i give you the pulse grenade

11

> > It would be cool to have an Impact Grenade that explodes as soon as it hits a surface. Like throwing a mortar round. However, it would have to be a tad weaker than a Frag due to the inability to effectively avoid it.
>
> i give you the pulse grenade

The Pulse Grenade was horribly ineffective and was more of an area-of-denial grenade rather than an explode-on-impact grenade. It was only effective if the enemy was caught in the pulse field collapse that happened after a few seconds.

Pulse Grenade /= Handheld Mortar Round

12

> > > It would be cool to have an Impact Grenade that explodes as soon as it hits a surface. Like throwing a mortar round. However, it would have to be a tad weaker than a Frag due to the inability to effectively avoid it.
> >
> > i give you the pulse grenade
>
> The Pulse Grenade was horribly ineffective and was more of an area-of-denial grenade rather than an explode-on-impact grenade. It was only effective if the enemy was caught in the pulse field collapse that happened after a few seconds.
>
> Pulse Grenade /= Handheld Mortar Round

What you described is essentially the Pulse grenade. Coming from someone who has completed its commendation. I can tell you it is definitely effective. If you throw it down right at the enemy’s feet, they will lose all shielding like any other frag. It does have bleedthrough. If you choose to run past a pulse grenade, you better do it during the middle of its phase.

Honestly I’ve grown to like it after mastering it. It needs to be bumped up to 2 nades instead of one.

13

> > > > It would be cool to have an Impact Grenade that explodes as soon as it hits a surface. Like throwing a mortar round. However, it would have to be a tad weaker than a Frag due to the inability to effectively avoid it.
> > >
> > > i give you the pulse grenade
> >
> > The Pulse Grenade was horribly ineffective and was more of an area-of-denial grenade rather than an explode-on-impact grenade. It was only effective if the enemy was caught in the pulse field collapse that happened after a few seconds.
> >
> > Pulse Grenade /= Handheld Mortar Round
>
> What you described is essentially the Pulse grenade. Coming from someone who has completed its commendation. I can tell you it is definitely effective. If you throw it down right at the enemy’s feet, they will lose all shielding like any other frag. It does have bleedthrough. If you choose to run past a pulse grenade, you better do it during the middle of its phase.
>
> Honestly I’ve grown to like it after mastering it. It needs to be bumped up to 2 nades instead of one.

I don’t know, the Pulse Grenade doesn’t come off as behaving like a mortar round from my perspective.

How about a rocket dart that you throw at a single enemy to blow him up?

14

> Pulse Grenades… area denial tools, with the Pulse being slightly more so.

Why do people still think this?

Firebombs were area denials, they dealt large amounts of damage if you walked through it and the flames persisted for a significant amount of time. Pulses do neither. They certainly deal damage but the damage to shields is negligible and the amount of time it stays active is far too short in creating an area of denial.

Pulses are however, incredibly finisher grenades given their near instantaneous activation time and their apparent ability to shred health.

15

This topic will be irrelevant until the BIG -Yoink- INDICATOR telling me that a grenade is nearby has be gotten rid of.

I strongly dislike threads like these because they ask fore improvements to be placed on top of underlying problems.

16

This topic will be irrelevant until the BIG -Yoink- INDICATOR telling me that a grenade is nearby has been gotten rid of.

I strongly dislike threads like these because they ask for improvements to be placed on top of underlying problems.

Didn’t mean to double post. just saw spelling errors and hit backspace.

17

> > Pulse Grenades… area denial tools, with the Pulse being slightly more so.
>
> Why do people still think this?
>
> Firebombs were area denials, they dealt large amounts of damage if you walked through it and the flames persisted for a significant amount of time. Pulses do neither. They certainly deal damage but the damage to shields is negligible and the amount of time it stays active is far too short in creating an area of denial.
>
> Pulses are however, incredibly finisher grenades given their near instantaneous activation time and their apparent ability to shred health.

Functionally I actually think the best ‘area of denial tool’ Halo has ever had are actually the old Plasma grenades, prior to Halo 4, before they were nerfed. It was an instant kill with a fairly large radius and a fairly slow det time. When ever you saw one of them on the ground you wouldn’t go anywhere near it, or else you’d likely die.

I think both the fire bomb and pulse grenade were more useful for their impact damage, the fire bomb being a 1 hit kill and the pulse grenade being good at that melee nade beat-down trick. The fire bombs lasting area of effect was very small, and you could just jump over it, it couldn’t really deny a significant area. The pulse grenades field damage is barely existent, the only thing you have to look out for is the second explosion which is a fairly weak explosion. At best I would call the pulse grenade a weak area deterrent.

> This topic will be irrelevant until the BIG -Yoink!- INDICATOR telling me that a grenade is nearby has be gotten rid of.
>
> I strongly dislike threads like these because they ask fore improvements to be placed on top of underlying problems.

Sure get rid of the indicators. The visual and audible cues should be more than enough.

18

> This topic will be irrelevant until the BIG -Yoink!- INDICATOR telling me that a grenade is nearby has be gotten rid of.
>
> I strongly dislike threads like these because they ask fore improvements to be placed on top of underlying problems.

I think enough has been said about all those problems, don’t you? We’ve had so many complaint threads after Halo 4, I think we should start looking to the future rather than dwell on the past.

The fact that an indicator exists has nothing to do with the introduction of new grenades. I don’t rally care one way or another about the indicators, but just because they exist and haven’t been confirmed out or in doesn’t mean that we can’t speculate on new ideas in the same loosely related section.

@Methew: Pulses work as area denials in a different way to firebombs. They deal less damage and are shorter-lived, but have a 3D AOE, rather than the firebomb that could simply be jumped over. The continuous effect is weak, but the collapse is stronger, and anyone doing some pursuing is likely to have taken a bit of damage at least, and probably wouldn’t want to chance getting caught in it.

19

> > This topic will be irrelevant until the BIG -Yoink!- INDICATOR telling me that a grenade is nearby has be gotten rid of.
> >
> > I strongly dislike threads like these because they ask fore improvements to be placed on top of underlying problems.
>
> I think enough has been said about all those problems, don’t you? We’ve had so many complaint threads after Halo 4, I think we should start looking to the future rather than dwell on the past.
>
> The fact that an indicator exists has nothing to do with the introduction of new grenades. I don’t rally care one way or another about the indicators, but just because they exist and haven’t been confirmed out or in doesn’t mean that we can’t speculate on new ideas in the same loosely related section.
>
> @Methew: Pulses work as area denials in a different way to firebombs. They deal less damage and are shorter-lived, but have a 3D AOE, rather than the firebomb that could simply be jumped over. The continuous effect is weak, but the collapse is stronger, and anyone doing some pursuing is likely to have taken a bit of damage at least, and probably wouldn’t want to chance getting caught in it.

When you try to put improvements on something without fixing it’s problems then it will remain broken. Fact is that grenades are much less of a threat due to indicators so whatever type you’re using people are much more likely going to be able to get away. I’m making a legitimate argument. Don’t be mad that I want to play ACTUAL HALO and not some broken copy of other games.

20

I’d like to see the spike grenade return but changed a little bit to be more effective. Specifically, a damage boost.