The fault in "Halo needs to evolve"

I have been hearing this same tired line over and over again. Anytime somebody criticizes Halo 5 and its questionable design choices, 75% of responses are “You’re stuck in the past” or “Go play MCC for old Halo” and my favorite one: "Halo needs to change" Lets break this down.

“You’re stuck in the past” - People who want a game to stay true to its roots are NOT stuck in the past. Do I agree some people are? YES, but only when they use the wrong reasons for a return to classic Halo. Things like “I miss the ragdoll physics” or “The under suits aren’t black” add nothing constructive. Do I want those back? Of course, but not because I think it improves the game. Those are just little side additions that I miss. The real meat of my arguments to return to form are purely gameplay-based. Trying to explain why sprint breaks maps or why ground pound and spartan charge are both useless are real pressing issues that are dismissed with this rebuttal (if you can even call it that) Its on the same scale of stupidity as the whole “You’re just jealous” argument that gets thrown around a lot whenever anyone criticizes somebody.

“Go play MCC for old Halo” - Another great example of stupidity. This is what we all wanted to do in the first place. Unfortunately, the game doesn’t work. At all. Patch after patch have been mere band--Yoink!-, and this new “Beta test patch” is their last-ditch effort to get this game back in the limelight. Its too late! The population is gone, and with the delay and thoughts of scrapping the beta test entirely, we may never get a working, stable Master Chief Collection. The other problem with this argument is how it assumes everyone wants a carbon copy of the games included. Some people do want that, and they are idiots for it. But, again, the people asking for a more traditional Halo experience without using the rose-tinted glasses exist and have well thought out reasons and points. To dismiss them trying to help a new game by recommending they play an old one is insulting and defeats the whole purpose of giving honest feedback on the next Halo game.

“Halo needs to change” - Sums up both the other two points. Halo does need to change, YES, but not by stripping itself of any unique or outstanding features and being reduced to a game trying to compete with the likes of COD and Titanfall. 2014 was when the whole “movement” concept was integrated into the FPS market, and it is anoher factor contributing to the homogenizing of the genre and the lack of innovation that its been plagued with for the last couple of years. Change is good when its POSITIVE CHANGE. Trying to rework the golden triangle of Halo to fit these new abilities that add nothing to the gameplay is NOT and its a slap in the face to the people who have been giving feedback in the hopes to get Halo back to form. Like I have said before, they take on step forward then two steps back. Power weapons and no loadouts are great, but when you have to add this jetpacking and movement that isn’t needed in Halo, you’ve taken another element away from what made Halo great: deliberate movement. When the majority of people want features like sprint gone and it keeps getting added, despite the countless arguments as to why it completely destroys Halo’s gameplay and maps shows 343’s lack of understanding or willingness to change, not us.

TL;DR Halo needs to change, but for the right reasons and with the right changes. Not because of “lore” or “because its expected”, or with ideas like “movement” that the casual audience that only plays for a few weeks will eat up. It needs to change for logical reasons and the changes need to be meaningful.

I dunno. The movement in halo 5 was rreeeeeaaalllyyy good. And the gunplay is basically the same, so I’m happy with the evolution.

> 2533274857398125;2:
> I dunno. The movement in halo 5 was rreeeeeaaalllyyy good. And the gunplay is basically the same, so I’m happy with the evolution.

Gunplay I agree, but the movement just feels tacked on to be a gimmick.

> 2533274857398125;2:
> I dunno. The movement in halo 5 was rreeeeeaaalllyyy good. And the gunplay is basically the same, so I’m happy with the evolution.

And that’s fine. You should like Guardians.

We just want to like it too.

> 2535421619942348;4:
> And that’s fine. You should like Guardians.
>
> We just want to like it too.

Post of the YEAR.

> 2535421619942348;4:
> > 2533274857398125;2:
> > I dunno. The movement in halo 5 was rreeeeeaaalllyyy good. And the gunplay is basically the same, so I’m happy with the evolution.
>
>
> And that’s fine. You should like Guardians.
>
> We just want to like it too.

This sums up everything I want to say.

Agreed

> 2535421619942348;4:
> > 2533274857398125;2:
> > I dunno. The movement in halo 5 was rreeeeeaaalllyyy good. And the gunplay is basically the same, so I’m happy with the evolution.
>
>
> And that’s fine. You should like Guardians.
>
> We just want to like it too.

Best comment ever couldn’t explain it better

All I have to say is look at the title of the very first Halo game. Halo: Combat Evolved, Halo’s sole purpose is to evolve, to stay above the competition, yes they have been failing at this for a while but they are catching up so that they can take the lead. But what you do not do is jump too far, cause than you alienate more people overall.

I question the need for Halo to remain “stagnate” when just comparing Halo: CE to H2.

> 2603643534597848;10:
> I question the need for Halo to remain “stagnate” when just comparing Halo: CE to H2.

I don’t want Halo to stagnate. I want it to evolve, but with meaningful changes. If you’re making changes for the sake of just because, there shouldn’t be a sequel or those changes shouldn’t be in the game.

Wow. Thanks guys!

> 2603643534597848;10:
> I question the need for Halo to remain “stagnate” when just comparing Halo: CE to H2.

I like how users like you equate us saying that we don’t want incompatible mechanics in a certain game to wanting it to stagnate.

It’s like you’re trying to actively misconstrue constructive criticism. As killmachine9T1 already said: we want meaningful changes. Not change for the sake of change.

> 2533274881015020;13:
> > 2603643534597848;10:
> > I question the need for Halo to remain “stagnate” when just comparing Halo: CE to H2.
>
>
>
>
> I like how users like you equate us saying that we don’t want incompatible mechanics in a certain game to wanting it to stagnate.
>
> It’s like you’re trying to actively misconstrue constructive criticism. As killmachine9T1 already said: we want meaningful changes. Not change for the sake of change.

I’m not trying anything. It’s meaningless rhetoric to make the claim you want meaningful change but the only changes acceptable have been from CE to H2, not seemingly any other.

And the lack of praise for H2A’s mechanics as contrast for what H5 should or shouldn’t bring back speaks volumes.

> 2603643534597848;14:
> It’s meaningless rhetoric to make the claim you want meaningful change but the only changes acceptable have been from CE to H2, not seemingly any other.

That’s purely nothing but baseless assumption.

> 2603643534597848;14:
> And the lack of praise for H2A’s mechanics as contrast for what H5 should or shouldn’t bring back speaks volumes.

That’s not how society works. Complaining is what everyone is good at - not over-congratulatory backpats. Compare the amount of complaints that H5’s Beta has to H2A (apart from the broken networking and buggy menus, there’s hardly any negative criticism of its gameplay mechanics).

Having both the sprint and the boost feels redundant. Both are used to get players from place to place faster, but only one has true tactical value. If 343 were to scrap sprint and put an emphasis on mastering the tactical capabilities of the new boosters, they might actually have something going for them. The boosters adds a little something extra to movements and can shake things up in a gunfight without breaking the classic Halo pacing of multiplayer matches. Although it’s never going to happen, I would love if 343 just focused on evolving the mp around this new mechanic cause it just reeks of potential. As far as the spartan melee ram thing and the ground pound, those could find their own niche if more thought was put into it. That pretty well sums up 343s additions to Halo’s mp, interesting but underdeveloped mechanics. It is as if they hear a cool idea, put it in the game just for the novelty of it, then leave it at that. When it comes to the new ADS I don’t really have an opinion. I don’t think it really changed much besides the fact it feels clunkier and takes up more of the screen than the old zoom.

> 2603643534597848;14:
> > 2533274881015020;13:
> > > 2603643534597848;10:
> > > I question the need for Halo to remain “stagnate” when just comparing Halo: CE to H2.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I like how users like you equate us saying that we don’t want incompatible mechanics in a certain game to wanting it to stagnate.
> >
> > It’s like you’re trying to actively misconstrue constructive criticism. As killmachine9T1 already said: we want meaningful changes. Not change for the sake of change.
>
>
> I’m not trying anything. It’s meaningless rhetoric to make the claim you want meaningful change but the only changes acceptable have been from CE to H2, not seemingly any other.
>
> And the lack of praise for H2A’s mechanics as contrast for what H5 should or shouldn’t bring back speaks volumes.

Um…H2A is good? There. Praise for H2A.

And WTF is this -Yoink- about us not liking -Yoinking- change!? Myself and Astronaut started two pretty successful threads about innovations we’d like to see and a ton of people liked our ideas.

Innovation.
From two Sprint Haters.

> 2535421619942348;17:
>

I’m not sure why you feel offended if you’re for not staying stagnate…
I would also disagree with your belief a “ton of people liked the ideas.” While I myself do like some of the ideas tossed out there in those threads, especially more gamemodes that play to the strengths of Invasion, I like this most;
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/what-would-you-innovate/00f38f1e-85d7-4f77-8345-8550f4ad2e05/posts?page=1#post3

> 2533274812652989;3:
> I kinda like having more movement options in Halo 5 as opposed to being walking brick ala Halo 1-3.

> 2603643534597848;14:
> > 2533274881015020;13:
> > > 2603643534597848;10:
> > > I question the need for Halo to remain “stagnate” when just comparing Halo: CE to H2.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I like how users like you equate us saying that we don’t want incompatible mechanics in a certain game to wanting it to stagnate.
> >
> > It’s like you’re trying to actively misconstrue constructive criticism. As killmachine9T1 already said: we want meaningful changes. Not change for the sake of change.
>
>
>
> I’m not trying anything. It’s meaningless rhetoric to make the claim you want meaningful change but the only changes acceptable have been from CE to H2, not seemingly any other.
>
> And the lack of praise for H2A’s mechanics as contrast for what H5 should or shouldn’t bring back speaks volumes.

Where are you getting this from? In fact, I consider Halo 3 the benchmark in terms of meaningful change. The two big things: Forge and Theater. Both added depth, both gave an outlet for the community, and most importantly, both didn’t change the core gameplay. THAT’S innovation. Not tacking on mantling and sliding and all that other stuff. 343 keeps trying to leave their mark on Halo in the most stupid ways. Iconic weapon designs? Yeah, lets change those for absolutely no reason. Loadouts? Of course, Halo needs to evolve! Titanfall movement abilities? We’re on it!

Halo needs to change. But it doesn’t need to change fundamentally. There’s a difference. This is what I would have considered meaningful change in Halo 5

-Just the thruster as a new ability. It adds a new option in a firefight, and its a great strafing tool. Have it so you can shoot while using it, and give it to everyone. Discard everything else.

-A stepped up Forge editor with Far Cry level options. Leveling or rising terrain, creating water, placeable AI, etc.

-Campaign mode with squad based mechanics. Since Blue Team is pretty much guaranteed to show up in Halo 5 and Tim Longo (creative lead on Republic Commando) is on board, why not make it happen? It would change the dynamic of working with AI while still maintaining the core Halo gameplay of grenade, melee, and gun.

Those impact the game in ways that let the series keep its identity while adding new features to compliment its gameplay.

> 2533274859193782;19:
>

Forge and Theatre are not gameplay changers and they are innovations for consoles, not gaming. Yes it is absolutely AWESOME we started to get basic map and player editors and ways to not only review our games but also use with DVR’s to make many types of videos… But those are not game changers.
“Default Halo” is still to be played by an apparently strict set of rules by some and those rules are the ones that players seem to claim are not needed to evolve Halo.

Dual wielding, vehicle boarding, fall damage/stun, fully/partial/non-regenerating health, sprint, armour abilities (be them equipment, suit or other forms) are game changing mechanics. Forge can be used to restrict or remove some of those abilities but that’s as far as Forge changes something.

I have no issues with Republic Commando style commands as it’s something I have been asking for for a while. But be careful… Suddenly it’s OK to “copy” from RC but it was naughty to copy other stuff from other games.

How does one stand on hit indicators and avatar callouts for the majority of players that do not speak to their team because of many other reasons other than “anti-social”?