The Fans are destroying Halo, not 343i

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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many Words PR

I have waited 5 long years to make this thread and now. Here it is and it is an UGLY truth about Halo fans.

Now lets Time Travel a bit…all the way back to 2000 where the world was happy that (to our knowledge ) Y2K didn’t happen and a great amazing games was being made. So great that it literally made people buy a 3 hundred dollar box just to play it. Now me being 7 when Halo came out had no clue that is existed until 2002 when I meet a friendly neighbor that had Halo Ce in his house and let me play it and ever since i was hooked on the game. My friends would come over just to play halo and enjoy the best thing ever made.

So we had no clue that Bungie was making a sequel we just thought Halo was this great game and nothing more until one day when i went to my older brothers house i saw a magazine with HALO 2 on the front and i was bouncing off the walls. So when 2004 hit i got my Halo 2 and was off and never looked back UNTIL THAT MAJOR CLIFF HANGAR OF AN ENDING LEFT ME AND MY FRIENDS HIGH AND DRY LIKE AN EPISODE OF DRAGON BALL Z!

So as we grew older we separated and i could finally stop being an XBL squeaker playing at my brothers house and really get into Halo gear…To Finish the Fight and after months of Enjoying Halo 3 me being 13 at the time began to see how many people just kept hating on the game. Hell i even got into fights with people at school who said COD was better than Halo.(nobody likes hearing BS)

But in 2008 it became clear to me that people were complaing about things they me and all my friends had wanted and really enjoyed hating like. Dual wielding, Plasma pistol and BR AKA n00b Combo which is a great tactic BTW and just railing Halo. So i took the liberty to go on Bungie.net to make an account and take a look at the forums it was filled with good and bad things but more good than bad…unlike now. But I saw things like people begging for a Halo strategy game even before Halo 3 came out and on the forums people were in an orgasmic bliss to here that a game called Halo Wars was being made.

The first thing i realized being in a clan called RTS that this was -Yoinking!- awesome. But than i saw people having post about why adding in Elites was a horrible mistake in Halo, that Halo need things like Sprint, that dual wielding was stupid and gave an unfair advantage because a guy had two guns to my one. maulers are cheap,Take away the hornets missiles they are OP(I agreed with this), AR’s should be able to headshot, Add in the Halo 2 Shadow Tanks,scarab Gun, Super Jump, We need jetpacks, make the Bubble shield stop people from walking into it, better forge,( i think what people did in halo 3 was far better than that of 4 and Reach in the Forge) Multiplayer doesn’t make sense to the story, i want to choose what gun i want to spawn with, knifing, being able to knock someone off when they board you, Mongoose Hijacks, Plasma weapons are too weak, no half shield melee kills, we should be able to play as ODST’s and Halo needs something like Horde mode < these last two are funny LOL see why later and oh, how could i forget this one…RECON!

It went on and on and i was just like WTF is wrong with these people Elites are awesome, how is dual wielding maulers Cheap but having a shotgun isn’t a Shogun can instant kill and you need two maulers to do that and even than you had to be up close. There were so many things that i just was like…WTF. I tired t explain things to these people but they were just fixated on how these things made the game bad.

So Halo Wars came out and after a moth of that it was disappointing because it was/is just a rushing game and the story was a bit conflicting with lore. Moving on.

2

Halo 3 O D S T! Prepare to Drop! Hell Yeah. great game, didn’t disappoint me in anyway. The terminals were great and if you got them all you got to kill your first ever Canon Halo Human kill. THe First Human kill in Halo that didn’t happen because your warthog slipped and ran over 3 marines, not because you were bored and wanted to see what it was like to fight marines not because you were mad at Captian Keyes for giving you a pistol with little to no ammo so you walked back into that room and blow his brains out along with the crew just to be hunted down by IMMORTAL marines and hiding in the lower area because they locked the exits leaving you with a :open_mouth: face. Or that guy in Halo one…you know when you firt see the flood…if you count that than it was out second but he was scared -Yoink- so that doesn’t count. Back to the subject.

ODST came out and it was great, gave people Recon. It was a perfect game,besides how Dare looked just as scary as the brutes the game was Visto Waaaaaaay. But no…more people complained about ODST not having MC in the game…How hte Hell could you expect MC to be in the game if it is called HALO 3 ODST. Hell they let you play as the more badass guy in the Halo Universe and that doesn’t mean anything and gave us access to the Halo Reach beta. NOw this is were it gets to this dark time we are in now.

Halo Reach…Remember Reach…right…Spartans never Die…RIGHT! Well reach was disappointing matchmaking wise to Elite fans. Since in the Beta it they were beast. Bungie gave us many things that people were SUPER HYPED for like loadouts, Armor Lock, assassinations,JETPACKS and playing as Spartan III’s basically . Like the little brothers and sisters of the Spartan II’s. They even made those sisters look like…sisters…AMAZING RIGHT! After a few months people hated everything about Reach but sprint…oh Never mind people hated sprint because Spartans couldn’t sprint apparently. Yet again on the Forum people Raged of simple things. Things that 343i changed in Halo 4 and you all got mad at them for…now we are coming closer to the present if no one has noticed…(I know you did)

Bungie took use to their last Halo game and so many people trashed teh -Yoink- out of the game and treated it like garbage eveen smack talking the game today for what Armor Lock. Really so bringing this up like i said before people were made at Bungie for giving them what they wanted. A bubble shield that gives you health and people couldn’t just run in it. They split this into two because it would be OP if they were together they made the dropshield and Armor Lock.(Which was only 5 seconds of safety until you were -Yoinked!-. I remember i had so many of my friends lolz on countdown when a guy went into armor lock…so i went and told him…

“I GOT ALL DAY -Yoink-!”

And killed him. We laughed at people who used armor lock while other said it broke the game like jetpacks. People said that the jetpack made maps use less and defeated map control. They said armor lock was slowing down gameplay and they said SPRINT SHOULDN’T BE A LOADOUT CHOICE EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE IT! So you guys know what 343i did. They did what you asked…they did ever -Yoinking!- thing Halo fans wanted since the dawn of Time apparently but to their knowledge they did the right thing but by you -Yoinks!-, Not all of you only those complainers who i am now set are people from other companies sent here to sabotage Halo are the asswipes that got what they wanted and complain about it in Halo 4.

Firefight has a story, Sprint for everyone, faster, gameplay, stronger plasma weapons, Multiplayer being apart of lore…a Halo Series that explains the Forerunners more. NO ELITES(I love elites why remove them because you couldn’t get a headshot)

reached max had to separate them but if anyone wants me to tell them what else the fans wanted but are not calling a blasphemy just ask please. Also…since you have my Halo origin story maybe some of you might have a good one. You guys aren’t bad people just…funny

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I like how each Halo has evolved and,I hope that Halo keeps on evolving! For that to happen, people can Yoink all they want, if it keeps making Halo better! But,yes,it is amazing how people forget the truth!

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The fans aren’t ruining Halo; the developers are. They’re 100% in control of the direction of the franchise. Bungie actually started straying off the path when they released the abomination that was Reach. I thought 343i would fix things with Halo 4 but I was wrong; they actually managed to make it worse. Hopefully they’ll do a better job with Halo 5.

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> I like how each Halo has evolved and,I hope that Halo keeps on evolving! For that to happen, people can Yoink all they want, if it keeps making Halo better! But,yes,it is amazing how people forget the truth!

Yep i agree…lol i expected the first comment to be someone raging at me…lol guess itsweird how things turn out…but the way i see games is sort of like pokemon…COD is Pikacu…electric and always comes back in the same form and never evolving while Halo is Eevee…it has so many possibilities and can become so many great and powerful things.

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> The fans aren’t ruining Halo; the developers are. They’re 100% in control of the direction of the franchise. Bungie actually started straying off the path when they released the abomination that was Reach. I thought 343i would fix things with Halo 4 but I was wrong; they actually managed to make it worse. Hopefully they’ll do a better job with Halo 5.

Well i would say Devs have about 73 percent of control of what they make…sometimes alot a things get cut out because the game can’t handle things also…did you read my big post…i understand that it is a huge read but the first half is mainly random crap only skip to the halo 3 part.

Reach wasn’t an abomination…play Dragon Age and you will see abominations. It was just a farwell game to fans and was made of everything fans wanted to have in Halo.
Also what you say about Devs is true but if they make the game off what the fans want aren’t the fans the problem.

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> Well i would say Devs have about 73 percent of control of what they make…sometimes alot a things get cut out because the game can’t handle things.

Yeah no.

Devs are 100% in control of everything the game has. If something is cut, it’s still in the dev’s control because they’re the ones cutting it. If something is added, it’s them adding it. Fans are in no control of what gets added to the game unless the devs especially ask them, properly.

> Reach wasn’t an abomination…play Dragon Age and you will see abominations. It was just a farwell game to fans and was made of everything fans wanted to have in Halo.
> Also what you say about Devs is true but if they make the game off what the fans want aren’t the fans the problem.

See, the fans aren’t a problem, the devs choose what they put into the game and what not to put in. If a fan asks for a ridable Unicorn in multiplayer that can tackle tanks, and the devs put it in, it’s still the Dev’s putting it in.

8

Blame the fans as much as you please, it wont be any more true.

Microsoft is probably to blame at the end of the day, unless it was 343’s idea to chase Call of Duty fans, and class based shooter fans in general. Though I don’t feel like 343i would have been allowed to make those decisions.

I’ve seen all kinds of requests from Halo “fans”, such as wanting Halo to be an open world 3rd person shooter from now on. But if 343 did that, it would still be 343’s fault because luckily, the vast majority of fans are smart enough NOT to request such things.

This is the situation we are in now with AA’s, sprint, loadouts and ordnance drops. Very few people would have asked for these changes, yet here we are with a Halo whose “innovations” are exactly those things.

You can’t blame that tiny, almost none existent minority that asked for silly things to be added to Halo, 343 didn’t have to listen to them.

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People ask for stuff, developers add it, people get mad, it will always happen, the fans can be so damn stuck up it makes me ashamed to be called a Halo fan

If they revert to “classic” (aka Halo 2 not actual classic CE gameplay I bet people will whine)

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> People ask for stuff, developers add it, people get mad, it will always happen, the fans can be so damn stuck up it makes me ashamed to be called a Halo fan
>
> If they revert to “classic” (aka Halo 2 not actual classic CE gameplay I bet people will whine)

Nope.

A small percentage of people ask for stuff which would offset the core of Halo.

Most fans say no don’t be silly, as Halo grows, it has to remain Halo.

Developer chooses to listen to that tiny percentage who don’t appreciate the core.

The majority that didn’t want those things complain about the terrible changes.

Developer and minority act surprised about the backlash.

The majority of the fans have a face-palm moment.

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> > People ask for stuff, developers add it, people get mad, it will always happen, the fans can be so damn stuck up it makes me ashamed to be called a Halo fan
> >
> > If they revert to “classic” (aka Halo 2 not actual classic CE gameplay I bet people will whine)
>
> Nope.
>
> A small percentage of people ask for stuff which would offset the core of Halo.
>
> Most fans say no don’t be silly, as Halo grows, it has to remain Halo.
>
> Developer chooses to listen to that tiny percentage who don’t appreciate the core.
>
> The majority that didn’t want those things complain about the terrible changes.
>
> Developer and minority act surprised about the backlash.
>
> The majority of the fans have a face-palm moment.

I remember people complaining that they wanted sprint, jetpack, etc. in Halo 2 quite a lot, at least once every day I heard it

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> > People ask for stuff, developers add it, people get mad, it will always happen, the fans can be so damn stuck up it makes me ashamed to be called a Halo fan
> >
> > If they revert to “classic” (aka Halo 2 not actual classic CE gameplay I bet people will whine)
>
> Nope.
>
> A small percentage of people ask for stuff which would offset the core of Halo.
>
> Most fans say no don’t be silly, as Halo grows, it has to remain Halo.
>
> Developer chooses to listen to that tiny percentage who don’t appreciate the core.
>
> The majority that didn’t want those things complain about the terrible changes.
>
> Developer and minority act surprised about the backlash.
>
> The majority of the fans have a face-palm moment.

You both make the false assumption of judging “people” as a single entity that thinks alike. Obviously, that’s not the case and the “people”, in fact, comprises of numerous different individuals, each of whom have – surprise, surprise – differing opinions.

The reality of it is, everyone has their own expectations from Halo. Some are more like others, but all are different in one way or another. For that reason, regardless of what the developer does, someone will always complain. It’s unavoidable, and just happens.

All the developer does here is makes a game they want to make. They don’t take suggestions from individuals, they don’t take suggestions from the majority, they just make their own game and tweak it afterwards and maybe even during the latter part of the development according to player feedback.

Blaming anyone else but the developer for the game is silly. Thinking that there is this anonymous “minority” who mysteriously gets to affect development of the game is equally silly. Finally, trying to speak for anyone else but yourself is as silly as the two aforementioned things.

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I blame Call of Duty for attracting an unimaginably huge fan base and making every developer think that straying from CoD’s systems would mean losing CoD’s fan base. That lead just about every MP game to adopt CoD features like custom classes and in the end just about every MP game out there added them in. Now not adding these features has truly become an issue since the features have become part of the mainstream and inseparable from the modern MP formula. I also blame Bungie for making Reach a step in that direction (with Loadouts and the Progression System) and making the final decision to make Halo mainstream that much easier. So in a sense I blame the system. Halo’s change was inevitable and it would take an extremely stubborn developer to not go with the flow, and Microsoft may not have allowed 343i to be stubborn. It sucks but it was definitely inevitable.

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> > > People ask for stuff, developers add it, people get mad, it will always happen, the fans can be so damn stuck up it makes me ashamed to be called a Halo fan
> > >
> > > If they revert to “classic” (aka Halo 2 not actual classic CE gameplay I bet people will whine)
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > A small percentage of people ask for stuff which would offset the core of Halo.
> >
> > Most fans say no don’t be silly, as Halo grows, it has to remain Halo.
> >
> > Developer chooses to listen to that tiny percentage who don’t appreciate the core.
> >
> > The majority that didn’t want those things complain about the terrible changes.
> >
> > Developer and minority act surprised about the backlash.
> >
> > The majority of the fans have a face-palm moment.
>
> You both make the false assumption of judging “people” as a single entity that thinks alike. Obviously, that’s not the case and the “people”, in fact, comprises of numerous different individuals, each of whom have – surprise, surprise – differing opinions.
>
> The reality of it is, everyone has their own expectations from Halo. Some are more like others, but all are different in one way or another. For that reason, regardless of what the developer does, someone will always complain. It’s unavoidable, and just happens.
>
> All the developer does here is makes a game they want to make. They don’t take suggestions from individuals, they don’t take suggestions from the majority, they just make their own game and tweak it afterwards and maybe even during the latter part of the development according to player feedback.
>
> Blaming anyone else but the developer for the game is silly. Thinking that there is this anonymous “minority” who mysteriously gets to affect development of the game is equally silly. Finally, trying to speak for anyone else but yourself is as silly as the two aforementioned things.

No mistakes here pal, just logic.

You have assumed that I see both sides of the argument as single entities, and an assumption is all it is.
I can assure you that no one understands that there are many different opinions out there more than I do.
I’m just not going to specify to that degree, because, why should I?
Surely it goes without saying that no two people will have the EXACT same opinions.
I am having a certain amount of faith that people have enough intellegence to know what I’m talking about without me having to specify every little detail.
Though judging from your response, maybe some people do need a little extra ‘help’.

So to clarify, when I say “majority” for example, I am referring to how more people would agree on the additions in Halo 4 being detrimental to the game. Even though they wont all agree 100% on the details, in general their opinions will connect to the same thing - COD aspects do not work well for HALO.

Oh and another thing, I am not literally suggesting that 343 did what they did as a result of listening to a minority. That would be silly.
I think it came as a result of trying to interest fans of COD style games into Halo, seeing as they are seemingly the market to chase right now.

15

The fans deserve blame like or not, people asked for features which were implemented the developers just get hate for it

16

The fans can only do so much, the developer has the keys to the Halo door and can alter and shape it in any way they wish.

Getting feedback is one thing, but they’re the ones who put it in and they’re the ones that decide how it’s going to work.

If Halo is ruined, it’s the developers fault. Not ours for suggesting things. That being said, Halo fans aren’t completely blame free…

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> I can assure you that no one understands that there are many different opinions out there more than I do.

And in what way, exactly, do you believe to be qualified to say that? I would’ve been happy with you assuring that you understand people can have different opinions in the first place. However, such a hyperbole isn’t necessarily to get the point through.

> I’m just not going to specify to that degree, because, why should I? Surely it goes without saying that no two people will have the EXACT same opinions.
>
> I am having a certain amount of faith that people have enough intellegence to know what I’m talking about without me having to specify every little detail.
> Though judging from your response, maybe some people do need a little extra ‘help’.

I’m not expecting you to be any more specific. I’m simply asking your text to be more coherent with what you think. You see, the developer catering to a group of people differs vastly from a group of people asking the developers to cater to them. So, I wouldn’t say it’s as much about extra help as it is about thinking what you write.

> So to clarify, when I say “majority” for example, I am referring to how more people would agree on the additions in Halo 4 being detrimental to the game. Even though they wont all agree 100% on the details, in general their opinions will connect to the same thing - COD aspects do not work well for HALO.

The issue here is that you assume that the majority actually thinks the additions are detrimental to Halo. This is exactly why I said you aren’t qualified to speak for anyone except yourself. That’s an assumption you have made, not a fact everyone can agree upon equally.

> Oh and another thing, I am not literally suggesting that 343 did what they did as a result of listening to a minority. That would be silly.

“A small percentage of people ask for stuff which would offset the core of Halo. Developer chooses to listen to that tiny percentage who don’t appreciate the core.”

That seems rather literal and clear to me. I don’t see how it could be interpreted figuratively in a sensible way. There is no asking or listening in developing a game based on the current state of the market. There are just different games with diffferent levels of popularity.

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> > Well i would say Devs have about 73 percent of control of what they make…sometimes alot a things get cut out because the game can’t handle things.
>
> Yeah no.
>
> Devs are 100% in control of everything the game has. If something is cut, it’s still in the dev’s control because they’re the ones cutting it. If something is added, it’s them adding it. Fans are in no control of what gets added to the game unless the devs especially ask them, properly.
>
>
>
> > Reach wasn’t an abomination…play Dragon Age and you will see abominations. It was just a farwell game to fans and was made of everything fans wanted to have in Halo.
> > Also what you say about Devs is true but if they make the game off what the fans want aren’t the fans the problem.
>
> See, the fans aren’t a problem, the devs choose what they put into the game and what not to put in. If a fan asks for a ridable Unicorn in multiplayer that can tackle tanks, and the devs put it in, it’s still the Dev’s putting it in.

Alright, I’ve read enough. If you really are naïve enough to think that the Dev’s are in control, let’s have a history lesson. Remember the events that took place with the release of the Xbox One (Gee, I hope you remember lol). The fans had raged so hard, that Microsoft turned and walked away with their tail in between their legs, and laid back down by their dog dish.

That’s right, the fans and customers ultimately have the power. Ever hear the saying, “the customer is always right”? While we might not always be right, they do have to do whatever it takes to satisfy us, whether we are right or wrong.

I don’t agree with all of the things that people said about the Xbox One, but it is a PRIME example of how the customers ultimately have the say in what happens. If we all say that we want unicorns and -Yoinking!- rainbows in the game, then that’s what they very well might do. Is it right? Hell no. Hope you see my point.

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I’m not saying the Dev’s are innocent… yet again, I don’t mind any of the changes. I’ve been here since Halo: CE, and played every game made, although my time with ODST and Reach was brief. I love the fast paced feel to Halo 4, and I will be more than glad to admit that it does need some more fine tuning. That can be handled through updates, and I have faith that more updates of this nature are yet to come. This is all strictly my opinion, and I’m not here to say that anyone is wrong.

@ tsassi & Jazzii Man – Neither of you are right or wrong. If you two feel so strongly about your opinions that you gotta argue here in the public forums (instead of in PMs), then put your theories to the test, and make your own thread, with a poll. Whoever loses can leave the forums for good. Still feel like arguing with each other?

20

You are set in your ways tsassi, I would explain why you are wrong with each point, but I can see that wouldn’t make a difference, so I wont bother.

I’ll leave you with a couple things though.

  1. I can see that I should have worded that part differently as it does look like I’m literally suggesting they did what they did as a result of the fans suggestions. However, I should only have to explain to you once after that, what I was really trying to say.

  2. If you really want to entertain the idea that more Halo fans might like Halo 4 than those who don’t, just because it can’t be easily proven beyond a shadow of a doubt either way, then go right ahead. This seems to be a big thing of yours.

But for me, the huge drop in population vs the huge sales, the massive amount of negative feedback in comparison to other Halo games, the polls, and just speaking to lots of people on Halo 4 who more often dislike the changes. All this stuff makes it all too obvious that more are against these new aspects in Halo 4.