The evolution of Invasion

Hi, everyone. I would like to start a conversation about how the game type “Invasion” could be resurrected. Let me start by saying that I have spent a TON of time playing Halo over the years and that by far it is my favorite series. That being said, although I classify myself as a purist when it comes to classic halo gameplay, I find myself being very open to new concepts as long as they fall in line with the core concepts of what makes a Halo game what it is. New gameplay ideas MUST be fair, skill-based, and competitive in nature.

General Concept: Anyone who played Halo: Reach is likely to remember the game type “Invasion”. One team plays an offensive roll, attacking objectives or stealing artifacts, while the opposite team plays a defensive roll, protecting objectives or preventing the loss of artifacts. Obviously, this is an asymmetrical game type, being that depending on which team you are on, you have certain advantages/disadvantages. In order for a game mode such as this to be fair, each team must have a chance to attack and defend. So, after one round, the teams switch sides and play a second round. The prominent difference in the Halo: Reach version of invasion and the one that I am suggesting is scale.

Objectives: The objectives in this game mode are map specific. So, a match of invasion of the city streets of New Mombasa would have totally different objectives than a match in the middle of the jungle on a Halo installation. Objectives could range from, “Destroy the 2 covenant communication points” to “Defend the Scarab from enemy forces”. The main point is that in each match there is a SERIES of objectives that each team must attack or defend accordingly. The game ends after the attackers complete all objectives or the defenders hold out long enough. Either the attackers could have a certain amount of lives that are depleted by the defenders, or a time limit could be set to end the game.

Teams: Teams are broken down into smaller fire teams of four members each. I think that roughly six fire teams per team is a good number for this game type. The next question is whether to have each team play as Spartans, or have one play as Spartans while the other plays as Elites.

Spartans vs Spartans: The idea of each team playing as Spartans is an attractive one because it is very straight forward. One team plays as Hot colors, such as red, orange, yellow, while the other plays as Cool colors, like blue, purple, or green. Each fire team would have a certain color, so that you have a red fire team or a blue fire team and etc. Each team has access to the same weapons.

Spartans vs Elites: If one team played as Spartans, while the other played as Elites, a unique style of gameplay is offered. Many players like the idea of playing as Elites in multiplayer. An advantage of this idea is that the individuals of each team could wear custom colors, rather than Hot vs Cold colors. Also, each team would have access to a different set of weapons and vehicles. This is my personal choice between the two.

Spawning: Each team has a base at which spawning is always possible and that enemies cannot enter; bases also serve as armories. When respawning, you have a choice to make. you can either spawn at your base, spawn into the fight on an eligible fire team member, or use an available drop pod. Spawning at one’s base is very straightforward. You spawn and either leave on foot or in a vehicle. If you choose to spawn on a fire team member, that member must meet the following conditions: the player must not be in danger, too close to enemy objectives, or too close to enemy spawn points. When it comes to this option, think Co-op campaign, if your buddy is getting his butt kicked, he must remove himself from combat before you can spawn on him. If you choose to use a drop pod, there firstly must be one available after a cool down timer, the specific map must feature drop pods, and you MUST use it at a certain distance away from your base, as to prevent wasting them too close to home.

Load outs: I know that this term has become a sore subject with many people, but it only makes sense for this game type to incorporate load outs. Load outs will operate on a point system. Essentially different weapons and items have different point values, and you must choose how to spend your points accordingly. EACH PLAYER HAS EVEN POINTS. So, if a player wants to spawn with a sniper rifle, an incredibly powerful power weapon, he must give up other things, such as his primary weapon, grenades, and equipment, as an example only. So, if players are allotted 10 points to spend on spawn, you could either buy many cheap items, or few expensive ones. You can only purchase one item for each “slot”, so only one primary, secondary, grenade type, or equipment. You can’t by 10 pistols or something absurd.

Ordnance: Ordnance items are also rated on the point system. Ordnance points, however, are earned in game by completing objectives or performing exceptionally. If your team is attempting to extract a piece of enemy intelligence, you might have a mongoose or warthog dropped in so that you can make a fast get away. Likewise, you might call in a rocket launcher if you know you are about to face enemy armor. This system is much like Halo 4’s except that it is not random. You select exactly what you want from a list of items that you have EARNED in that match.

Maps: Maps must be LARGE for this game type. Think ODST’s city, or playing a match on a portion of High Charity. If you have ever played games from the Battlefield franchise you know what I mean when I say that the map must be large enough for enemies to be pushed back to the next set of objectives several times.

Shew… Sorry for the long read! If you have comments or questions please leave them below and I will gladly address them. I look forward to your responses! :slight_smile:

liked everything other than the loadouts and ordanance. i’m not against loadouts as a whole but im not a fan of this idea. i’d rather see equal starts, title update reach like loadouts or maybe the option to pick your primary among the utility weapons(br,dmr,carbine etc). and ordance im just not a fan of at all.

The problem with Invasion is maps. Invasion-oriented maps don’t really work for anything else, so you’re losing resources for other game modes like 4v4 and normal BTB.

Dominion was meant to be Invasion-like but work for normal BTB maps. They just needed to go further with the idea of rounds and progression.

> The problem with Invasion is maps. Invasion-oriented maps don’t really work for anything else, so you’re losing resources for other game modes like 4v4 and normal BTB.
>
> Dominion was meant to be Invasion-like but work for normal BTB maps. They just needed to go further with the idea of rounds and progression.

I should have clarified. I do mean that the maps for this game type would be specific to it and that they would not be used for other game types. You are right though that the creation of the game type and maps would drain resources from other aspects :confused:

I liked lmost all of your idea. One problem I am seeing is that you want 36 vs 36 gameplay. That is just too large a leap for Halo to make. I would think that 12 vs 12 would suit it fine here if we minimize the objectives a tad. Nothing too extreme though so that the objectives are still grand enough in scale to feel important.

> I liked lmost all of your idea. One problem I am seeing is that you want 36 vs 36 gameplay. That is just too large a leap for Halo to make. I would think that 12 vs 12 would suit it fine here if we minimize the objectives a tad. Nothing too extreme though so that the objectives are still grand enough in scale to feel important.

Actually it is 24 v 24 being 6 fire teams of 4 players. Definitely right about wanting the objectives to feel important.

The way i see invasion evolving is to implement a few small things on paper but huge in concept. Play it like a one-sided first person MOBA

Add MOBA grade AI.

If you’ve ever played a MOBA (league of Legends, Defense of the Ancients Smite) or Titanfall you know that the AI have a very simple but major role. Give you money, levels and absorb damage with little opposition. Of course every now and again minions become winions but adding a feature like this into the game wouldn’t be a bad idea and having each unit killed add into the teams overall score.

I.E. Battlefront Style. The defending team could kill 200 AI and only 1 player and still win.

Power Bonuses-Certain things that for players to make map control i.e. securing landing zones for ammo, weapons, vehicles and more troops. Whoever holds these locations get more in the battle. Landing zones could be places were AI normally don’t go and what ever is deployed is a team decision not just a guy who ran over to grab it and ask for magnum ammo when his team mates have 4 rocket launchers that are low on ammo.

Destructible defense platforms. Rather they be a tower or a power node or even keep the to original style of invasion plans. Adding in DDP could only enhance the invasion experience on top of what we had before.

This would stop people from down right camping in their base with a shotgun and force outside interaction. Imagine if all the Elites with their energy Swords in the Spire looked out the window and saw tanks just shooting the spire down or all the Spartans with camo on Boneyard bases being taking out by sniper fire. This would also expand of defensive and offensive play styles.

capturing or destroying is purely optional useless the mission calls for it not to be. Like taking key Intel away from the enemy.

Invasion was great I missed it allot in halo 4

The game type is great but I feel it’s weakness was a lack of maps

> The way i see invasion evolving is to implement a few small things on paper but huge in concept. Play it like a one-sided first person MOBA
>
> Add MOBA grade AI.
>
> If you’ve ever played a MOBA (league of Legends, Defense of the Ancients Smite) or Titanfall you know that the AI have a very simple but major role. Give you money, levels and absorb damage with little opposition. Of course every now and again minions become winions but adding a feature like this into the game wouldn’t be a bad idea and having each unit killed add into the teams overall score.
>
> I.E. Battlefront Style. The defending team could kill 200 AI and only 1 player and still win.
>
>
>
> Power Bonuses-Certain things that for players to make map control i.e. securing landing zones for ammo, weapons, vehicles and more troops. Whoever holds these locations get more in the battle. Landing zones could be places were AI normally don’t go and what ever is deployed is a team decision not just a guy who ran over to grab it and ask for magnum ammo when his team mates have 4 rocket launchers that are low on ammo.
>
>
> Destructible defense platforms. Rather they be a tower or a power node or even keep the to original style of invasion plans. Adding in DDP could only enhance the invasion experience on top of what we had before.
>
> This would stop people from down right camping in their base with a shotgun and force outside interaction. Imagine if all the Elites with their energy Swords in the Spire looked out the window and saw tanks just shooting the spire down or all the Spartans with camo on Boneyard bases being taking out by sniper fire. This would also expand of defensive and offensive play styles.
>
> capturing or destroying is purely optional useless the mission calls for it not to be. Like taking key Intel away from the enemy.

Great ideas! The AI portion would be especially good for the covenant team in my opinion. Not sure that attackers need them really, but having player controlled elites alongside other AI controlled covenant factions could be awesome. Especially if you throw in units like Hunters :slight_smile:

> Invasion was great I missed it allot in halo 4
>
>
> The game type is great but I feel it’s weakness was a lack of maps

Definitely. It just had a general lack of support so people lost interest. It wasn’t my favorite game type by any means but I certainly saw potential in it, but I guess you already read about that lol.

Invasion is the reason i actually got to inheritor, if i could have only one gametype back for H5, it’d be invasion.

Though personally i’d keep the progressive loadout system for it reach had, maybe tone down the power weapons but to be honest, i never felt sword/shotgun spawn loadouts really hurt invasion. i KNOW for a fact one-weapon starts the whole way through would, invasion is more about the immersion of a real battle between the spartans and the elites, so it makes sense to have the bigger toys get brought in as the fight goes on, and i’d rather them not ALL on-map (seriously, just the uber weapons like FRG or sniper caused quite a bit of team-kill)

I get people want halo to be this ‘competitive or -Yoink-’ game, but seriously, for invasion if nothing else, immersion over competitive, im not saying dont keep it balanced, im just saying keep it like its a real battle, and that the closer each team gets to success/failure, the more assets they dedicate to this battle.

> Invasion is the reason i actually got to inheritor, if i could have only one gametype back for H5, it’d be invasion.
>
> Though personally i’d keep the progressive loadout system for it reach had, maybe tone down the power weapons but to be honest, i never felt sword/shotgun spawn loadouts really hurt invasion. i KNOW for a fact one-weapon starts the whole way through would, invasion is more about the immersion of a real battle between the spartans and the elites, so it makes sense to have the bigger toys get brought in as the fight goes on, and i’d rather them not ALL on-map (seriously, just the uber weapons like FRG or sniper caused quite a bit of team-kill)
>
> I get people want halo to be this ‘competitive or Yoink!’ game, but seriously, for invasion if nothing else, immersion over competitive, im not saying dont keep it balanced, im just saying keep it like its a real battle, and that the closer each team gets to success/failure, the more assets they dedicate to this battle.

The great thing about the whole idea is that it IS competitive. It isn’t the same exact gameplay as arena but that’s kind of the point. There is enough love for Halo in my heart that I could play arena and this both. Sounds like you have enough love for it too :wink:

Oh trust me Tuck0rz, i loved invasion ALMOST as much as i love my gungnir helmet (sorry invasion but i can’t sleep with both of you). I’m just worried all the pushes to send halo 5 back to 2004 might have negative effects on things that ARENT pure competitive you know? this community really does have the power right know to make or break every bone in H5’s body, and given this communities attitude at times, its a little worrying.

> Oh trust me Tuck0rz, i loved invasion ALMOST as much as i love my gungnir helmet (sorry invasion but i can’t sleep with both of you). I’m just worried all the pushes to send halo 5 back to 2004 might have negative effects on things that ARENT pure competitive you know? this community really does have the power right know to make or break every bone in H5’s body, and given this communities attitude at times, its a little worrying.

It’s a bit outstanding to me that the community has had such an impact this time around honestly. I am extremely happy about this though because even if we get 0 innovation in Halo 5, at the very least we will still have a playable Halo game. I do hope for innovation though obviously.

> > The way i see invasion evolving is to implement a few small things on paper but huge in concept. Play it like a one-sided first person MOBA
> >
> > Add MOBA grade AI.
> >
> > If you’ve ever played a MOBA (league of Legends, Defense of the Ancients Smite) or Titanfall you know that the AI have a very simple but major role. Give you money, levels and absorb damage with little opposition. Of course every now and again minions become winions but adding a feature like this into the game wouldn’t be a bad idea and having each unit killed add into the teams overall score.
> >
> > I.E. Battlefront Style. The defending team could kill 200 AI and only 1 player and still win.
> >
> >
> >
> > Power Bonuses-Certain things that for players to make map control i.e. securing landing zones for ammo, weapons, vehicles and more troops. Whoever holds these locations get more in the battle. Landing zones could be places were AI normally don’t go and what ever is deployed is a team decision not just a guy who ran over to grab it and ask for magnum ammo when his team mates have 4 rocket launchers that are low on ammo.
> >
> >
> > Destructible defense platforms. Rather they be a tower or a power node or even keep the to original style of invasion plans. Adding in DDP could only enhance the invasion experience on top of what we had before.
> >
> > This would stop people from down right camping in their base with a shotgun and force outside interaction. Imagine if all the Elites with their energy Swords in the Spire looked out the window and saw tanks just shooting the spire down or all the Spartans with camo on Boneyard bases being taking out by sniper fire. This would also expand of defensive and offensive play styles.
> >
> > capturing or destroying is purely optional useless the mission calls for it not to be. Like taking key Intel away from the enemy.
>
> Great ideas! The AI portion would be especially good for the covenant team in my opinion. Not sure that attackers need them really, but having player controlled elites alongside other AI controlled covenant factions could be awesome. Especially if you throw in units like Hunters :slight_smile:

Thanks and i guess Hunters could spawn in as Super Minions.

> Teams: Teams are broken down into smaller fire <mark>teams of four members each. I think that roughly six fire teams per team is a good number</mark> for this game type. The next question is whether to have each team play as Spartans, or have one play as Spartans while the other plays as Elites.

That’s a lot of player, but if dedicated servers stay it would be possible.

> Spartans vs Spartans: The idea of each team playing as Spartans is an attractive one because it is very straight forward. <mark>One team plays as Hot colors</mark>, such as red, orange, yellow, while <mark>the other plays as Cool colors</mark>, like blue, purple, or green. Each fire team would have a certain color, so that you have a red fire team or a blue fire team and etc. Each team has access to the same weapons.

So like the Reach Beta.

> Load outs: I know that this term has become a sore subject with many people, but it only makes sense for this game type to incorporate load outs. Load outs will operate on a point system. Essentially different weapons and items have different point values, and you must choose how to spend your points accordingly. EACH PLAYER HAS EVEN POINTS. So, if a player wants to spawn with a sniper rifle, an incredibly powerful power weapon, he must give up other things, such as his primary weapon, grenades, and equipment, as an example only. So, if players are allotted 10 points to spend on spawn, you could either buy many cheap items, or few expensive ones. You can only purchase one item for each “slot”, so only one primary, secondary, grenade type, or equipment. You can’t by 10 pistols or something absurd.

Idk how your point system would work in game. It might work it might not. I would like to be on the safe side and go with the Reach system of handling load outs.

> Maps: Maps must be LARGE for this game type. Think ODST’s city, or playing a match on a portion of High Charity. If you have ever played games from the <mark>Battlefield</mark> franchise you know what I mean when I say that the map must be large enough for enemies to be pushed back to the next set of objectives several times.

When i started reading the post i thought i was reading something from the Battlefield forums.

> Add MOBA grade AI.

Lastly i would like to talk about AI. This is not easy by any means. To put it in simple terms our options are a learning AI that takes time or AI only on disk maps.

I like most of this but h the loadouts
I think they should work in the sense of unlock phases like in reach so if I want I can feel like a honor filled elite with a sword

> I like most of this but h the loadouts
> I think they should work in the sense of unlock phases like in reach so if I want I can feel like a honor filled elite with a sword

That could work just as easily. As the game progresses every player unlocks more and more guns to use.

> > I like most of this but h the loadouts
> > I think they should work in the sense of unlock phases like in reach so if I want I can feel like a honor filled elite with a sword
>
> That could work just as easily. As the game progresses every player unlocks more and more guns to use.

sounds good to me

Rather than Invasion loadouts progressively allowing players to spawn with more powerful weapons, it should allow players to progressively spawn with different modified base traits or “perks”. Halo’s two weapon system shines brightest when players spawn with an effective utility weapon then move off spawn to possibly pick up a niche weapon. Always spawning players with a utility weapon also prevents an entire team from wielding Energy Swords inside their base.

The one place where perks would work is in Invasion loadouts that unlock with each phase. Where a fast reload may be more advantageous in the infantry based second phase, being able to move at full speed while carrying a support weapon, like the Missile Pod, may be more desirable in the vehicle based third phase.

12v12 is probably the maximum player count I would go. Any higher and the gameplay differences between Invasion and everything else becomes too great. Six fire teams of two is best because the importance of coordinating with your spawn buddy is higher than if three dead teammates could all respawn on their one buddy.

While it is true that Invasion will need maps built specifically for that single gametype, the large scale asymmetric nature of Invasion maps allows them to fit right into a Campaign experience. Design maps for Invasion then incorporate those pre built areas into Campaign as epic battles where Chief must assault these enemy infested strongholds without the aide of an entire team behind him.

Spartans having Thruster as a base movement ability and Elites having Evade as a base movement ability seems fairly balanced.

Similar to how Sandtrap had an Elephant as a mobile base containing spawn points, Spartans could have an AI controlled Pelican flying above the map where players could initially spawn then launch down to the map in some sort of drop pod.

As for the objectives that must be completed, keep them simple. Objectives do not need to be unnecessarily complex.

Securing an area: Territories

Delivering an object: One Bomb Assault

Collecting an object: One Flag CTF

Players as objectives: VIP

For example, attackers hold one of two territories for X seconds to secure a beachhead which opens the second phase. Attackers then deliver a bomb to destroy a key support strut blocking off the third phase. Attackers must then steal the Elite’s software cipher then bring it back to the satellite uplink to remotely disable their anti aircraft defenses. At this point the Elites would be beat; the Spartans objective becomes hunting down and killing the enemy team before they can flee to the safety of an awaiting escape Phantom. If the Spartans fail to complete any phase then their support Pelican is destroyed by the Elite’s anti aircraft guns and they become the ones who are hunted with no way to escape the map.