The DMR and it's (maybe) future place in Halo

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I’ve noticed a lot of threads floating around about how we should “increase the player count now!” While I agree to some extent with this statement, (No higher than 32, 24 is just right.), some others I’ve noticed vehemently or passively do not.

An argument I’ve seen used many times to counter larger player counts is that the gameplay changes dramatically. This is true, and I’ve been contemplating over this and found no way around this until I read a thread today about removing the DMR. I thought to myself “this is not a good idea, there must be some way to preserve the DMR’s relativity to Halo!”

Well ladies and…other spartans, I’d like to propose an idea. Assuming identical starts become used in Halo XB1, the DMR could be the bridge of a weapon necessary to make 16v16+ matches work. It already has INCREDIBLE range for a primary starting weapon, so why not put this to good use. Only gamemodes with larger player counts and maps would feature the DMR as a starting weapon whilst the BR gets featured with the AR on smaller medium-smaller maps.

The second question I had concerning this fix for the DMR was “well, the BR/AR combo starts players off in standard playlists, what would complement the DMR well?”

That is where my new concept for a redesigned magnum comes in. The “M6K”. The M6K pistol has a single-shot fire-rate akin to that of the Halo 3 pistol, but the twist is that holding the trigger makes it a fully-automatic weapon like in CE. The pistol is capable of killing spartans with 4 shots and features a six-round magazine (maybe 8) paired with a 2x scope.

So, what do you think?

2

While I have my own beliefs on this discussion, this is a reasonable trade off I feel.

3

Something along these lines, yes. DMR or BR starts for larger, like bigger than ragnarok, maps holding 24+ people with vehicular combat as well. AR or BR starts for mid-small maps.

Covie and Pro weapons as pickups, as well as AA’s for petes sake.

4

In my opinion Halo has done precision rifles to death, they will be it’s undoing.

Medium range DMR/BR battles aren’t fun anymore because they been the center piece of HALO 2, HALO 3, HALO REACH, HALO 4, and likely HALO X1.

5

The DMR and it’s future in Halo: Removed from Loadouts and made into a map pickup with scant few placed around maps. Power increased so it’s a 3SK and Aim assists drastically lowered.

Done.

6

> Something along these lines, yes. DMR or BR starts for larger, like bigger than ragnarok, maps holding 24+ people with vehicular combat as well. AR or BR starts for mid-small maps.

This.

> Covie and Pro weapons as pickups, as well as AA’s for petes sake.

Don’t neccecarily agree with this.
I’d say bring back the Needle Rifle next to the Carbine. Make one of them a BR equal, the other a DMR equal (probably NR=BR, C=DMR). That way the DMR wouldn’t be the only weapon within its little niche.

Pro weapon pick up: yes.

AA pick up: Not all. Shield regen, Auto Sentry, Hardlight Shield, Camo: yes.
The rest could easily work as “standard” AA’s.
Pick up AA’s should work as they do in H4: use once, refresh time etc. You die: you lose it.

7

Nice ideas. I like the DMR but that’s because I like my scoped rifles to be single shot precision weapons. So I believe it has a place in Halo, even in loadouts if they return. But I don’t think Reach or Halo 4 have perfected the formula yet.

If loadouts go the way of the dodo (moa?) then I like this arrangement for starting weapons:

Close Quarters maps: AR/Pistol

Medium-Large sized maps: BR/AR

Large-Extra Large maps: DMR/AR

8

> In my opinion Halo has done precision rifles to death, they will be it’s undoing.
>
> Medium range DMR/BR battles aren’t fun anymore because they been the center piece of HALO 2, HALO 3, HALO REACH, HALO 4, and likely HALO X1.

Still have done PLENTY of close combat in all said games including 4.

9

> > In my opinion Halo has done precision rifles to death, they will be it’s undoing.
> >
> > Medium range DMR/BR battles aren’t fun anymore because they been the center piece of HALO 2, HALO 3, HALO REACH, HALO 4, and likely HALO X1.
>
> Still have done PLENTY of close combat in all said games including 4.

Fair point, and one that doesn’t get enough attention IMHO. Halo, for me, has always consisted of weapons battles, vehicle action, and beat-downs. I really hope Halo 5 considers all 3 of these and takes a fresh look at all 3. Giving attention to all the different kinds of combat which Halo provides should help to improve even things like precision rifle combat. I don’t see why it wouldn’t…

10

> In my opinion Halo has done precision rifles to death, they will be it’s undoing.
>
> Medium range DMR/BR battles aren’t fun anymore because they been the center piece of HALO 2, HALO 3, HALO REACH, HALO 4, and likely HALO X1.

Pretty much every shooter in existence has a precision weapon of some sort, regardless if its automatic or semi-automatic. The idea of automatic precision weapons is interesting but I feel it would ultimately end up being way too easy to use, which would be boring either way.

The one automatic weapon that I feel (as well as others) could end up being precise and still skillful is the Storm Rifle or Plasma Rifle, but I bet 343I will probably make a hitscan accurate AR and ruin the game instead of the obvious, more skillful choice.

Similar argument can be made for the DMR, I don’t really find its maximum range to be an issue, there are several ways to get up close to a DMR user. The issue is how easy using it at these ranges is.

I like the OP’s idea of having the DMR in large combat and then having the Magnum essentially be what the DMR is now on smaller maps.

> and beat-downs

Probably the worst aspect of the “golden triangle”. Melee was a bit underpowered in Halo CE, but ever since Halo 2 pressing the B button is an instant-win at close range with no thought or skill required.

Hopefully melee is changed drastically in future releases, but I doubt it will happen.

I’m hoping Halo 5 is a game that drastically changes and improves the sandbox, but we will probably get a rehashed Halo 3 or Halo 4 that is flawed at the core and has to be stripped 90% to be viable in competitive play. As per usual.

> The DMR and it’s future in Halo: Removed from Loadouts and made into a map pickup with scant few placed around maps. Power increased so it’s a 3SK and Aim assists drastically lowered.
>
> Done.

Making it an questionably balanced, crutchy sniper rifle reskin is not the solution.

11

> I’ve noticed a lot of threads floating around about how we should “increase the player count now!” While I agree to some extent with this statement, (No higher than 32, 24 is just right.), some others I’ve noticed vehemently or passively do not.
>
> An argument I’ve seen used many times to counter larger player counts is that the gameplay changes dramatically. This is true, and I’ve been contemplating over this and found no way around this until I read a thread today about removing the DMR. I thought to myself “this is not a good idea, there must be some way to preserve the DMR’s relativity to Halo!”
>
> Well ladies and…other spartans, I’d like to propose an idea. Assuming identical starts become used in Halo XB1, the DMR could be the bridge of a weapon necessary to make 16v16+ matches work. It already has INCREDIBLE range for a primary starting weapon, so why not put this to good use. <mark>Only gamemodes with larger player counts and maps would feature the DMR as a starting weapon whilst the BR gets featured with the AR on smaller medium-smaller maps</mark>.
>
> <mark>The second question I had concerning this fix for the DMR was “well, the BR/AR combo starts players off in standard playlists</mark>, what would complement the DMR well?”
>
> That is where my new concept for a redesigned magnum comes in. The “M6K”. The M6K pistol has a single-shot fire-rate akin to that of the Halo 3 pistol, but the twist is that holding the trigger makes it a fully-automatic weapon like in CE. The pistol is capable of killing spartans with 4 shots and features a six-round magazine (maybe 8) paired with a 2x scope.
>
> So, what do you think?

I said this in another post

12

> > The DMR and it’s future in Halo: Removed from Loadouts and made into a map pickup with scant few placed around maps. Power increased so it’s a 3SK and Aim assists drastically lowered.
> >
> > Done.
>
> Making it an questionably balanced, crutchy sniper rifle reskin is not the solution.

Then the only solution would be to remove it.

That might be a hard thing to do given how H4 has it. Bungie provided a way for a clean break by making it an Army based weapon that was being phased out but it’s presence in H4 is going to make it messy and hard to make that break again.

Best option I can come up with is to make it a Sub-Power Weapon in the same vein that the SAW is.

13

> > I’ve noticed a lot of threads floating around about how we should “increase the player count now!” While I agree to some extent with this statement, (No higher than 32, 24 is just right.), some others I’ve noticed vehemently or passively do not.
> >
> > An argument I’ve seen used many times to counter larger player counts is that the gameplay changes dramatically. This is true, and I’ve been contemplating over this and found no way around this until I read a thread today about removing the DMR. I thought to myself “this is not a good idea, there must be some way to preserve the DMR’s relativity to Halo!”
> >
> > Well ladies and…other spartans, I’d like to propose an idea. Assuming identical starts become used in Halo XB1, the DMR could be the bridge of a weapon necessary to make 16v16+ matches work. It already has INCREDIBLE range for a primary starting weapon, so why not put this to good use. <mark>Only gamemodes with larger player counts and maps would feature the DMR as a starting weapon whilst the BR gets featured with the AR on smaller medium-smaller maps</mark>.
> >
> > <mark>The second question I had concerning this fix for the DMR was “well, the BR/AR combo starts players off in standard playlists</mark>, what would complement the DMR well?”
> >
> > That is where my new concept for a redesigned magnum comes in. The “M6K”. The M6K pistol has a single-shot fire-rate akin to that of the Halo 3 pistol, but the twist is that holding the trigger makes it a fully-automatic weapon like in CE. The pistol is capable of killing spartans with 4 shots and features a six-round magazine (maybe 8) paired with a 2x scope.
> >
> > So, what do you think?
>
> I said this in another post

I’ll admit you said some, but not all. You excluded the DMR from the statement as well as didn’t come up with any new traits for the magnum.

14

> > > The DMR and it’s future in Halo: Removed from Loadouts and made into a map pickup with scant few placed around maps. Power increased so it’s a 3SK and Aim assists drastically lowered.
> > >
> > > Done.
> >
> > Making it an questionably balanced, crutchy sniper rifle reskin is not the solution.
>
> Then the only solution would be to remove it.
>
> That might be a hard thing to do given how H4 has it. Bungie provided a way for a clean break by making it an Army based weapon that was being phased out but it’s presence in H4 is going to make it messy and hard to make that break again.
>
> Best option I can come up with is to make it a Sub-Power Weapon in the same vein that the SAW is.

The Reach DMR was actually used by all branches of the UNSC but was phased out in return for the BR-55 in all branches except the Army by Reach’s time. The DMR in Halo 4 is a different, newer model that is being phased back into the Marine Corps and Navy alongside the BR-85.

15

> > > > The DMR and it’s future in Halo: Removed from Loadouts and made into a map pickup with scant few placed around maps. Power increased so it’s a 3SK and Aim assists drastically lowered.
> > > >
> > > > Done.
> > >
> > > Making it an questionably balanced, crutchy sniper rifle reskin is not the solution.
> >
> > Then the only solution would be to remove it.
> >
> > That might be a hard thing to do given how H4 has it. Bungie provided a way for a clean break by making it an Army based weapon that was being phased out but it’s presence in H4 is going to make it messy and hard to make that break again.
> >
> > Best option I can come up with is to make it a Sub-Power Weapon in the same vein that the SAW is.
>
> The Reach DMR was actually used by all branches of the UNSC but was phased out in return for the BR-55 in all branches except the Army by Reach’s time. The DMR in Halo 4 is a different, newer model that is being phased back into the Marine Corps and Navy alongside the BR-85.

That’s my point.

Bungie provided a way out for 343 to quietly ditch the weapon if it proved problematic. And spawning with a near accurate pin point precision weapon with a high powered scope is a problem; It kills player movement. Especially on larger maps. Instead 343 decided to bring the weapon back. And if that’s the canon behind the DMR, it’ll be nigh impossible to just ditch the weapon for HXB1.

Since ditching it isn’t an option and leaving it as a Loadout weapon is a problem, only solution I see is to make it up it’s power and make it a sub-PW and a map pickup.

16

I do believe the dmr has a place in halo, like the op said the dmr should only be available in large scaled maps.

A good idea to balance the dmr is add bloom,lower aim assist, maybe make it 5 shot kill, make it slow shooting.

17

> I do believe the dmr has a place in halo, like the op said the dmr should only be available in large scaled maps.
>
> A good idea to balance the dmr is add bloom,lower aim assist, maybe make it 5 shot kill, make it slow shooting.

You’ve effectively just made it worthless. If we keep the DMR as-is in Halo 4, and just reduce the magazine back to 12 rather than 14, we’d be set.

18

> > > > > The DMR and it’s future in Halo: Removed from Loadouts and made into a map pickup with scant few placed around maps. Power increased so it’s a 3SK and Aim assists drastically lowered.
> > > > >
> > > > > Done.
> > > >
> > > > Making it an questionably balanced, crutchy sniper rifle reskin is not the solution.
> > >
> > > Then the only solution would be to remove it.
> > >
> > > That might be a hard thing to do given how H4 has it. Bungie provided a way for a clean break by making it an Army based weapon that was being phased out but it’s presence in H4 is going to make it messy and hard to make that break again.
> > >
> > > Best option I can come up with is to make it a Sub-Power Weapon in the same vein that the SAW is.
> >
> > The Reach DMR was actually used by all branches of the UNSC but was phased out in return for the BR-55 in all branches except the Army by Reach’s time. The DMR in Halo 4 is a different, newer model that is being phased back into the Marine Corps and Navy alongside the BR-85.
>
> That’s my point.
>
> Bungie provided a way out for 343 to quietly ditch the weapon if it <mark>proved problematic</mark>. And spawning with a near accurate pin point precision weapon with a high powered scope is a problem; It kills player movement. Especially on larger maps. Instead 343 decided to bring the weapon back. And if that’s the canon behind the DMR, it’ll be nigh impossible to just ditch the weapon for HXB1.
>
> Since ditching it isn’t an option and leaving it as a Loadout weapon is a problem, only solution I see is to make it up it’s power and make it a sub-PW and a map pickup.

The thing with the DMR though is that due to it’s single-shot ability it makes it the most consistent precision weapon Halo has seen other than the Sniper Waffle. It’s the weapon Halo players have been asking for since the start of the series, but it’s hated because of it’s range which can easily be accommodated for through other means of balancing other than making it a sub-PW.

19

> The thing with the DMR though is that due to it’s single-shot ability it makes it the most consistent precision weapon Halo has seen other than the Sniper Waffle. It’s the weapon Halo players have been asking for since the start of the series, but it’s hated because of it’s range which can easily be accommodated for through other means of balancing other than making it a sub-PW.

The other means of balancing mean placing significant amount of debris around the maps to allow players to leapfrog between positions.

This in my mind creates problems on BTB maps because to facilitate vehicle play you create islands where the players operate and channels for the vehicles to move through.

This negatively impacts said vehicle play.

Turning the scope magnification down doesn’t make sense canon-wise and I question if the weapon is good enough as is to warrant a map pickup or if reducing the aim assist will be enough to fix the problem.

20

The problem with the DMR and the rest of the precision rifles is that if they were removed completely then the game plays totally different then how it currently plays, but in stark contrast if there were only the DMR, BR, CC, and LR the way Halo plays now only shifts marginally due to the lack of power weapons. In other words the DMR, BR, CC, and LR are 90% of the Halo experience which hasn’t changed since HALO 2. Do we really want the same exact thing again?

Now if 343 reduces the availability of the DMR, BR, CC, and LR to limited map drops then Halo can get back to it’s HALO CE run and gun arena heyday.