The de-evolution & great gameplay of Halo 5

[I posted this as a comment in another thread, but felt it deserved a shout out]

Reach will always be the best. You’ve read this a lot by now, I understand, but since Reach, we’ve lost more and more customizable options and basic modes previously included on disk, and great storytelling without overwhelming lore details.

Where Halo has become diluted
Let’s face it…Halo has become both, Star Wars and Lord of The Rings. I mean, the lore can really go on…if you want to pry further. You have the Covenant, a group of multi-raced aliens that worship their “Great Journey,” that consider the ancient Forerunners to be their gods. Then you have the pre-cursors, a far more ancient species(?) that is said to have created both, man and Forerunner. Sister races, that were never meant to war amongst one another. Then, you have the “Great World Eaters,” a spore that travels through comet/ asteroid/ space debris, where it only takes one sport to infect and destroy a civilization. The Flood. Mix that in with Chief and Blue Team’s history, the insurrectionist wars, Halsey and the S1 and S2 programs, Forerunner installations/ Halo rings and artifacts, the division and up-rise between Brute and Elites, the Elite separatists, such as the Arbiter and his men, and the extremist sects of the Covenant, such as Jul…and you’ve got a recipe for confusion. Too much! Nobody could possibly guess the next theme of the next Halo game. It leaves nothing to the imagination…and this is why I only like the Erick Nylund books.

So, going back to Reach…sure, whatever, people will speak of this “bloom” and “armor lock” multiplayer breaking elements, whatever that means. I never had any issues with armor lock and I most certainly don’t even know what Bloom is, other than a process that a flower undergoes. I guess Reach had too many flowers? Huh. As far as armor lock, it was sweet and taken from the books. The Spartan’s suit will lock down when undergoing a tremendous impact…because of this fact, it was always kind of stupid that a Spartan could die by being ran over by a 10mph ghost/ wraith and yet, Master Chief could use his suit to crash land onto a ship or planet’s surface. Armor lock helped to combat vehicles. If armor lock was an issue in MP, they could have just removed its EMP capabilities that discharged shields and allegedly turned it into a great way to cheese a gunfight…and remember, it’s only really the sore losers that complain about any given gameplay mechanic for which they can base their blames on. Take Armor lock and bloom away and that player doesn’t necessarily win any more rounds. Just as those in MMO’s complain about all the high end PVP gear, and are responsible for needless nerfing of said gear, on account they are more jealous, than anything else.

That said, let’s get to the point
The campaign in Reach was memorable. You start by landing on Reach and you’re questioning the locales, doing a bit of detective work and trying to uncover as to whether or not these attacks were orchestrated by insurrectionists(the war that was going on between humanity at the time) or Covenant. Your crew was badass and you grew to care for them…also, you were your own spartan, as opposed to being forced to play a predetermined protagonist… e.g. why couldn’t have fire team Osiris leader have been you? Don’t get me wrong, I like Locke…just an idea and a point – part of what made Reach special, was you were you. Back to the campaign, I will never forget that scene with Kat, when I was totally listening to everything she was saying, as we rushed out and then all of a sudden it was over…my heart completely sank and it shocked my wife as well, when she co-opt with me. There was also those series of missions, where we took over Oni Sword Base, stormed the beaches, took over the Longsword facility and launched into Space. That was amazing. Everything was so realistic and right out of a Neil Blomkamp movie. Reach also had that Halo CE style evening sniping mission, which felt totally covert. At the end of Reach, that final gunfight is chilling, I mean creepy chilling.

Overall, the campaign had a ton of grit, it was rustic, the color palette was more realistic, the art direction was the best ever and not cartoony…if only Reach implemented the HudLink system of Halo 5, it would be perfect. Hudlink is something thing taken from the books that I have been waiting to observe in a game. You never experienced it before, just read about how the Spartan and Marine aiming system worked.

…but what about multiplayer? This is where Reach shined
It’s just those little things that added up. It was all still Halo 3’s multiplayer engine, but with new abilities and features, such as assassinations and sprinting…and let’s not forget the first-ever ODST style jet packs! However, where Reach really shined was customization – adding tactical vests, tactical helmet and arm accessories, changing individual shoulder armor and even being able to mix them up. having the ability to change individual gear pieces and mixing them up e.g. using MKIV chest piece with orbital helmet, one MKIV shoulder pad and one commander shoulder pad, in addition to using assault leggings with grenadier(or other) knee pads, changing forearm/ gauntlet pieces etc. There were also more realistic armor colors(muted) and the ability to remove and add blast visors from your favorite helmets. In Halo 5 what can you do? Change your helmet and visor and use one type of complete suit of armor. Reach was also the last time we saw an updated Firefight game mode. Halo 5 has absolutely no co-op…at least not outside of campaign, where you cannot use your custom Spartan, can no longer turn on campaign scoring and no longer get campaign commendations and nor can you any longer unlock gear in campaign. So what is the incentive to replay/ co-op campaign, again? Nothing.

…but Halo 5 is not all lost
All this being said. This is not to say Halo 5 is a complete wash by any means. Halo 5 has some of the most evolved gameplay I’ve been waiting for, such as run/ slide(which has it’s sneaky uses), hudlink, and ADS. The series has become a tiny bit more grounded, but not enough that you can’t call it Halo. Sophisticated, is the word…I just miss some of those powerups, such as dome shield and jet packs and I feel the story/ lore could use some grounding as well, as it is just too far into the depths and realms of Lord of The Rings, for me…but the lack of additional co-op is the real stinger. Last, I would conclude with one, small critique…I miss that Halo 4-style Stomp sound that your Spartan would make when landing from great heights and off of launch ramps. It really helped to convey the heaviness of these war suits.

Every problem we have in Halo today started with Reach, so you are wrong with it being the best. That is your opinion, but it is not fact. Everything except the gameplay and multiplayer in Reach was good, the campaign, the customization, firefight, etc.

The entire competitive community stopped playing reach after the first week and here is why:

  • Bloom on the DMR (worst thing ever added in Halo, making combat all about luck) - Sprint being added (ruined map design, Reach has the worst maps of all time, forge maps saved multiplayer) - Armor lock (second worst thing that ever happened to Halo, ruined 1v1 fights in Halo) - Jetpack (third worst thing that happened to halo, ruined map movement and lines of sight) - MLG dropped Halo because of how bad Reach was and this was the official dagger to the heart of competitive HaloTill this day, people still fight about sprint and armor abilities. Reach forums were the worst and the community has never healed since then. That is a fact. And all of this started in Reach. Reach is the best casual Halo ever made in which you enjoyed this experience specifically because there is no competitive element to the game as pointed out in my above points.

H5 > H4 > Reach > CE > H2 > H3. This is my opinion on both MP and Campaign. Ive been playing Halo since CE.

> 2683394777979415;2:
> Every problem we have in Halo today started with Reach, so you are wrong with it being the best. That is your opinion, but it is not fact. Everything except the gameplay and multiplayer in Reach was good, the campaign, the customization, firefight, etc.
>
> The entire competitive community stopped playing reach after the first week and here is why:
>
> - Bloom on the DMR (worst thing ever added in Halo, making combat all about luck)
> - Sprint being added (ruined map design, Reach has the worst maps of all time, forge maps saved multiplayer)
> - Armor lock (second worst thing that ever happened to Halo, ruined 1v1 fights in Halo)
> - Jetpack (third worst thing that happened to halo, ruined map movement and lines of sight)
> - MLG dropped Halo because of how bad Reach was and this was the official dagger to the heart of competitive Halo
> Till this day, people still fight about sprint and armor abilities. Reach forums were the worst and the community has never healed since then. That is a fact. And all of this started in Reach. Reach is the best casual Halo ever made in which you enjoyed this experience specifically because there is no competitive element to the game as pointed out in my above points.

I second this. Reach was the worst Halo in my opinion and it started the downhill slope of Halo.

> 2683394777979415;2:
> Every problem we have in Halo today started with Reach, so you are wrong with it being the best. That is your opinion, but it is not fact. Everything except the gameplay and multiplayer in Reach was good, the campaign, the customization, firefight, etc.
>
> The entire competitive community stopped playing reach after the first week and here is why:
>
> - Bloom on the DMR (worst thing ever added in Halo, making combat all about luck)
> - Sprint being added (ruined map design, Reach has the worst maps of all time, forge maps saved multiplayer)
> - Armor lock (second worst thing that ever happened to Halo, ruined 1v1 fights in Halo)
> - Jetpack (third worst thing that happened to halo, ruined map movement and lines of sight)
> - MLG dropped Halo because of how bad Reach was and this was the official dagger to the heart of competitive Halo
> Till this day, people still fight about sprint and armor abilities. Reach forums were the worst and the community has never healed since then. That is a fact. And all of this started in Reach. Reach is the best casual Halo ever made in which you enjoyed this experience specifically because there is no competitive element to the game as pointed out in my above points.

Didn’t like Armor Abilities, freaking love sprint.

I like that Halo is faster now. It still feels like Halo.

Reach was much better after those two major updates. But that was too little too late.

> 2533274792195095;1:
> …but what about multiplayer? This is where Reach shined

Great banter mate.

> 2533274794912367;5:
> > 2683394777979415;2:
> > Every problem we have in Halo today started with Reach, so you are wrong with it being the best. That is your opinion, but it is not fact. Everything except the gameplay and multiplayer in Reach was good, the campaign, the customization, firefight, etc.
> > The entire competitive community stopped playing reach after the first week and here is why:
> >
> >
> >
> > - Bloom on the DMR (worst thing ever added in Halo, making combat all about luck)
> >
> >
> >
> > - Sprint being added (ruined map design, Reach has the worst maps of all time, forge maps saved multiplayer)
> >
> >
> >
> > - Armor lock (second worst thing that ever happened to Halo, ruined 1v1 fights in Halo)
> >
> >
> >
> > - Jetpack (third worst thing that happened to halo, ruined map movement and lines of sight)
> >
> >
> >
> > - MLG dropped Halo because of how bad Reach was and this was the official dagger to the heart of competitive Halo
> >
> > Till this day, people still fight about sprint and armor abilities. Reach forums were the worst and the community has never healed since then. That is a fact. And all of this started in Reach. Reach is the best casual Halo ever made in which you enjoyed this experience specifically because there is no competitive element to the game as pointed out in my above points.
>
>
> Didn’t like Armor Abilities, freaking love sprint.
> I like that Halo is faster now. It still feels like Halo.
> Reach was much better after those two major updates. But that was too little too late.

The fastest gameplay Halo is still Combat Evolved and that was the first game in the series. Sure you run fast now, but it does not mean the gameplay is faster.

Edit:
I will provide an example for you. A 2v2 match in Halo 5 takes 8-10 minutes in high ranks. A 2v2 match in H:CE takes 5-7 minutes to finish. Also, you only need 25 kills in H5, but in H:CE it was until 50. So lets do the math here. If a match lasted 8 minutes in H5, there is 3.125 kills per minute and if a game takes 5 minutes in H:CE, that is 10 kills per minute. Wow, that’s a 7 kill differential in just one minute. Interesting. Now lets do the max time. For H5 after 10 minutes, there is 2.5 kills per minute, while in CE after 7 minutes there is 7.14 kills per minute. I will provide equal times and show you how much faster the gameplay is for H:CE and H5.

Lets say both games are equal in length, 10 minutes. Halo 5 is still 2.5 kills per minute while H:CE is 5 kills per minute. That is double the amount of kills per minute as H5. That’s just not right, because people keep telling me sprint, thruster, and clamber makes gameplay faster, but in reality all it does it provides a fake sense that the gameplay is faster. I’m basing it on my experience in these games, not an average of the entire population. I can also tell you 4v4 CE has higher kills per minute than H5 does as well.

I stopped reading when you said Reach is the best. In my opinion that is false. Halo 3 is the game with the largest community that lasted for years, unlike Reach, or Halo 4.

OH, BTW- You were able to customize chest. shoulder pieces, and helmets in Halo 3.

You know, as valid as most of these “Halo is changing for worse/dying” arguments are, I don’t understand what’s stopping them from playing Halo 3 on MCC. Multiplayer is working fine, and the lag isn’t really noticeable outside of Halo 4 matchmaking. That’s probably why 343i made the MCC: to give the older Halo fans the ability to re-experience the multiplayer they loved, which had been depopulated significantly by the time MCC came out.

Just because you’re apparently ignorant of what bloom is doesn’t make it less of a problem. Arguing from a position of willfully ignorance isn’t a strong position to begin with. Flowers, really?

And it doesn’t matter if armor lock is from the books. Gameplay is more important than lore. Always. And I’m not about to get in an argument with someone about whether an emergency invincibility button is good for competitive gameplay.

And jet pack ruined lots of maps because it made many of the design choices pointless because you can bypass having to take an actual path somewhere by just jet packing to a position.

All this stuff was cool in campaign and even Invasion, but that’s where it should have been limited to and reach would have been a much better game if it had been done that way.

And speaking of the books, the game diverged from the books big time and most of the squad deaths were pointless and stupid.

> 2533274950478805;9:
> You know, as valid as most of these “Halo is changing for worse/dying” arguments are, I don’t understand what’s stopping them from playing Halo 3 on MCC. Multiplayer is working fine, and the lag isn’t really noticeable outside of Halo 4 matchmaking. That’s probably why 343i made the MCC: to give the older Halo fans the ability to re-experience the multiplayer they loved, which had been depopulated significantly by the time MCC came out.

Unfortunately, it’s hard to find matches anymore. BTB is a ghost town :frowning:

> 2683394777979415;2:
> Every problem we have in Halo today started with Reach, so you are wrong with it being the best. That is your opinion, but it is not fact. Everything except the gameplay and multiplayer in Reach was good, the campaign, the customization, firefight, etc.
>
> The entire competitive community stopped playing reach after the first week and here is why:
>
> - Bloom on the DMR (worst thing ever added in Halo, making combat all about luck)
> - Sprint being added (ruined map design, Reach has the worst maps of all time, forge maps saved multiplayer)
> - Armor lock (second worst thing that ever happened to Halo, ruined 1v1 fights in Halo)
> - Jetpack (third worst thing that happened to halo, ruined map movement and lines of sight)
> - MLG dropped Halo because of how bad Reach was and this was the official dagger to the heart of competitive Halo
> Till this day, people still fight about sprint and armor abilities. Reach forums were the worst and the community has never healed since then. That is a fact. And all of this started in Reach. Reach is the best casual Halo ever made in which you enjoyed this experience specifically because there is no competitive element to the game as pointed out in my above points.

Someone here gets it. :applause: . OP, I agree with your thoughts on Campaign and Options, but Reach Multiplayer was a step backwards from halo 3 in terms of competitiveness. 343 has dropped the ball 3 times in my book. (MCC,H4,H5). Halo 5 could be an amazing game! It has new components that keeps it fresh and balanced, it also removed horrible ones ie: jetpack, x-ray vision, load outs, to name a few off the top of my head. But it’s missing a lot of “HALO” things, ie: Game types, Maps, Customs Options, Customization in general, Split screen, No Social playlists. My point is, it seems 343 is on the fence and needs to decide which direction they are taking the Halo Franchise in terms of Multiplayer. That being said, I hope they can recreate a Halo that is balanced for Competitive community and FUN for everyone. IMHO Halo 3 executed that near perfectly.

> 2533274800383882;7:
> > 2533274794912367;5:
> > > 2683394777979415;2:
> > > Every problem we have in Halo today started with Reach, so you are wrong with it being the best. That is your opinion, but it is not fact. Everything except the gameplay and multiplayer in Reach was good, the campaign, the customization, firefight, etc.
> > >
> > > The entire competitive community stopped playing reach after the first week and here is why:
> > >
> > > - Bloom on the DMR (worst thing ever added in Halo, making combat all about luck)
> > > - Sprint being added (ruined map design, Reach has the worst maps of all time, forge maps saved multiplayer)
> > > - Armor lock (second worst thing that ever happened to Halo, ruined 1v1 fights in Halo)
> > > - Jetpack (third worst thing that happened to halo, ruined map movement and lines of sight)
> > > - MLG dropped Halo because of how bad Reach was and this was the official dagger to the heart of competitive Halo
> > > Till this day, people still fight about sprint and armor abilities. Reach forums were the worst and the community has never healed since then. That is a fact. And all of this started in Reach. Reach is the best casual Halo ever made in which you enjoyed this experience specifically because there is no competitive element to the game as pointed out in my above points.
> >
> >
> > Didn’t like Armor Abilities, freaking love sprint.
> >
> > I like that Halo is faster now. It still feels like Halo.
> >
> > Reach was much better after those two major updates. But that was too little too late.
>
>
> The fastest gameplay Halo is still Combat Evolved and that was the first game in the series. Sure you run fast now, but it does not mean the gameplay is faster.

It might be the fastest but it feels slow.

I came into this thread expecting a good, long post on the decline of Halo’s gameplay, why it happened and possibly how to improve it… and I enter to find the first thing I read is “Reach will always be the best.”

I am disappoint. Reach did almost everything right outside of the actual gameplay. That’s where it ends.

> 2683394777979415;2:
> Every problem we have in Halo today started with Reach, so you are wrong with it being the best. That is your opinion, but it is not fact. Everything except the gameplay and multiplayer in Reach was good, the campaign, the customization, firefight, etc.
>
> The entire competitive community stopped playing reach after the first week and here is why:
>
> - Bloom on the DMR (worst thing ever added in Halo, making combat all about luck)
> - Sprint being added (ruined map design, Reach has the worst maps of all time, forge maps saved multiplayer)
> - Armor lock (second worst thing that ever happened to Halo, ruined 1v1 fights in Halo)
> - Jetpack (third worst thing that happened to halo, ruined map movement and lines of sight)
> - MLG dropped Halo because of how bad Reach was and this was the official dagger to the heart of competitive Halo
> Till this day, people still fight about sprint and armor abilities. Reach forums were the worst and the community has never healed since then. That is a fact. And all of this started in Reach. Reach is the best casual Halo ever made in which you enjoyed this experience specifically because there is no competitive element to the game as pointed out in my above points.

Reach started the problems, but 343 chose to continue them with Halo 4 and partially into Halo 5. They could’ve easily built off of Halo 3 and brought back a more classic style of gameplay, but they chose to build off of the worst Halo at the time.

Now, in my opinion, Halo 4 is the worst Halo. It made me realize Reach wasn’t so bad after all. Halo 5 is a step in the right direction, but the lack of content and level of customization from the previous games hurts it bad. There’s absolutely no reason why Halo 5 shipped with less content and customization than the other games.

> 2533274866682248;11:
> > 2533274950478805;9:
> > You know, as valid as most of these “Halo is changing for worse/dying” arguments are, I don’t understand what’s stopping them from playing Halo 3 on MCC. Multiplayer is working fine, and the lag isn’t really noticeable outside of Halo 4 matchmaking. That’s probably why 343i made the MCC: to give the older Halo fans the ability to re-experience the multiplayer they loved, which had been depopulated significantly by the time MCC came out.
>
>
> Unfortunately, it’s hard to find matches anymore. BTB is a ghost town :frowning:

With all these Halo 2/3 fanboys one would think they’d be playing Halo 2/3 and enjoying it, instead of playing Halo 5 and hating it. And that means that “Halo is dead,” all because the latest game in the series is apparently the only Halo that exists.

I wanted see where this going but then everything turned into Reach was the best thread. Reach was one of the lesser Halo’s for me personally so I am not to eager to return to that type of game. We should take the few really great things like Headhunter from Reach but the Rest can stay in that game.

> 2533274950478805;16:
> > 2533274866682248;11:
> > > 2533274950478805;9:
> > > You know, as valid as most of these “Halo is changing for worse/dying” arguments are, I don’t understand what’s stopping them from playing Halo 3 on MCC. Multiplayer is working fine, and the lag isn’t really noticeable outside of Halo 4 matchmaking. That’s probably why 343i made the MCC: to give the older Halo fans the ability to re-experience the multiplayer they loved, which had been depopulated significantly by the time MCC came out.
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, it’s hard to find matches anymore. BTB is a ghost town :frowning:
>
>
> With all these Halo 2/3 fanboys one would think they’d be playing Halo 2/3 and enjoying it, instead of playing Halo 5 and hating it. And that means that “Halo is dead,” all because the latest game in the series is apparently the only Halo that exists.

I would’ve thought the same thing as you a year ago, but I’ll tell you a story. When I bought MCC I was convinced it was all the Halo I’ll ever need. Obviously the problems made it unplayable for a time, but I never returned the game or tried to get a refund because I knew once it gets fixed, I’ll start playing it again because the games are great. Then it took 6 months to get the game in a playable state and I found that… I just didn’t care anymore. And neither did my friends. It sounds crazy but that’s just what happened and now I’m hearing that the NXE update -Yoinked!- up the game again, so there’s that.

> 2533274819567236;18:
> > 2533274950478805;16:
> > > 2533274866682248;11:
> > > > 2533274950478805;9:
> > > > You know, as valid as most of these “Halo is changing for worse/dying” arguments are, I don’t understand what’s stopping them from playing Halo 3 on MCC. Multiplayer is working fine, and the lag isn’t really noticeable outside of Halo 4 matchmaking. That’s probably why 343i made the MCC: to give the older Halo fans the ability to re-experience the multiplayer they loved, which had been depopulated significantly by the time MCC came out.
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, it’s hard to find matches anymore. BTB is a ghost town :frowning:
> >
> >
> > With all these Halo 2/3 fanboys one would think they’d be playing Halo 2/3 and enjoying it, instead of playing Halo 5 and hating it. And that means that “Halo is dead,” all because the latest game in the series is apparently the only Halo that exists.
>
>
> I would’ve thought the same thing as you a year ago, but I’ll tell you a story. When I bought MCC I was convinced it was all the Halo I’ll ever need. Obviously the problems made it unplayable for a time, but I never returned the game or tried to get a refund because I knew once it gets fixed, I’ll start playing it again because the games are great. Then it took 6 months to get the game in a playable state and I found that… I just didn’t care anymore. And neither did my friends. It sounds crazy but that’s just what happened and now I’m hearing that the NXE update -Yoinked!- up the game again, so there’s that.

Hm. I hadn’t heard that. Just goes to show how quickly everyone’s forgotten about it, even though they wanted it so badly to work. Though, Custom Game nights were always what made me enjoy Halo the most. I remember playing a 2+ hour long Assassination-Only FFA on Longbow, and we had at least 25 different players, be it our friends or just recent players, that came and went during the course of the game. I have the full match saved on my Halo 4 fileshare. That was the most fun I’ve ever had playing a video game.

> 2533274803493024;13:
> > 2533274800383882;7:
> > > 2533274794912367;5:
> > > > 2683394777979415;2:
> > > > Every problem we have in Halo today started with Reach, so you are wrong with it being the best. That is your opinion, but it is not fact. Everything except the gameplay and multiplayer in Reach was good, the campaign, the customization, firefight, etc.
> > > >
> > > > The entire competitive community stopped playing reach after the first week and here is why:
> > > >
> > > > - Bloom on the DMR (worst thing ever added in Halo, making combat all about luck)
> > > > - Sprint being added (ruined map design, Reach has the worst maps of all time, forge maps saved multiplayer)
> > > > - Armor lock (second worst thing that ever happened to Halo, ruined 1v1 fights in Halo)
> > > > - Jetpack (third worst thing that happened to halo, ruined map movement and lines of sight)
> > > > - MLG dropped Halo because of how bad Reach was and this was the official dagger to the heart of competitive Halo
> > > > Till this day, people still fight about sprint and armor abilities. Reach forums were the worst and the community has never healed since then. That is a fact. And all of this started in Reach. Reach is the best casual Halo ever made in which you enjoyed this experience specifically because there is no competitive element to the game as pointed out in my above points.
> > >
> > >
> > > Didn’t like Armor Abilities, freaking love sprint.
> > >
> > > I like that Halo is faster now. It still feels like Halo.
> > >
> > > Reach was much better after those two major updates. But that was too little too late.
> >
> >
> > The fastest gameplay Halo is still Combat Evolved and that was the first game in the series. Sure you run fast now, but it does not mean the gameplay is faster.
>
>
> It might be the fastest but it feels slow.

I agree. It feels incredibly slow. Slayer on smaller maps right now in Halo 5 is fast and furious. I love it.