The Cycle of Hate

Games Other Halo
1

Now, seriously, let’s all take a step back and think for a second.

The general idea held on this forum is that Reach was the Halo that wasn’t Halo. It was the bad egg in the bunch. The stinker. The ugly step child not worthy of the great family Halo name. Given, it took a near perfected, tried and true formula, and sprinkled it with a bunch of bull -Yoink- (yes I’m looking at you, armor lock).

In comes Halo 4, with a handful of things vaguely similar to Reach, and many people are upset, with many cries of “Halo 4=Halo Reach 2” and such.

But. Older fans.

Do you remeber.

Halo 2.

And the sheer amount of hate it got. Ohhhhhhh lordy you guys think people are critical of Reach… you have no idea. Same for Halo 3 (equipment, TWAS HERESY!). And yet, over time, these two sequels were accepted, and remain the most popular in the series. Now, all I’m trying to say is this is what 4 is going through right now.

Change, good or bad, is subjective, and, is never, ever, welcomed with open arms. For a lot of people Halo 1 is the only Halo that is Halo. Give 4 a chance. Sure, MP might be reminiscent of another popular FPS franchise cough but let’s see what happens./rant

2

> Now, seriously, let’s all take a step back and think for a second.
>
> The general idea held on this forum is that Reach was the Halo that wasn’t Halo. It was the bad egg in the bunch. The stinker. The ugly step child not worthy of the great family Halo name. Given, it took a near perfected, tried and true formula, and sprinkled it with a bunch of bull Yoink! (yes I’m looking at you, armor lock).
>
> In comes Halo 4, with a handful of things vaguely similar to Reach, and many people are upset, with many cries of “Halo 4=Halo Reach 2” and such.
>
> But. Older fans.
>
> Do you remeber.
>
> Halo 2.
>
> And the sheer amount of hate it got. Ohhhhhhh lordy you guys think people are critical of Reach… you have no idea. Same for Halo 3 (equipment, TWAS HERESY!). And yet, over time, these two sequels were accepted, and remain the most popular in the series. Now, all I’m trying to say is this is what 4 is going through right now.
>
> Change, good or bad, is subjective, and, is never, ever, welcomed with open arms. For a lot of people Halo 1 is the only Halo that is Halo. Give 4 a chance. Sure, MP might be reminiscent of another popular FPS franchise cough but let’s see what happens./rant

heh…oh i remember. btw saying hi from renton! ohh yeah washington representing old school halo =P

3

Give them time. Im sure they will apreciate Halo 4.

4

I’m excited for it :smiley:

5

Not quite.

With the release of Halo 2, people seemed to love Halo CE more. When Halo 3 was announced, people suddenly loved the blasphemy that was Halo 2. When Halo Reach was announced, people loved Halo 3.

However, people still hate Halo Reach and Halo 4 at the same time. The pattern is broken.

6

> Not quite.
>
> With the release of Halo 2, people seemed to love Halo CE more. When Halo 3 was announced, people suddenly loved the blasphemy that was Halo 2. When Halo Reach was announced, people loved Halo 3.
>
> However, people still hate Halo Reach. The pattern is broken.

i actually loved halo 2 post-patch. the competitive play, custom games getting out of maps and superbouncing like a crazy kid, tower of power, zombies, great maps, mlg games with double shots and bxrs.

those were good times.

CE was fantastic. halo 3 was a bit of a letdown compared to 2 for me, in several ways.

but yeah, Reach was just terrible. dont reach for the sun too far or your hand will get burned? well bungie’s entire arm was burnt after that one.

7

I personally, loved halo 2 and 3, stuff like equipment never bothered me. In fact during Reach’s development AA’s and Bloom didn’t scare me either, I was really excited for the game. After playing it I realised how the two things really changed the core Halo gameplay and even though I think it is a great game, it’s not a good Halo game.

So keep in mind when I (and others) voice negative opinions about certain features of Halo 4. It’s not out of hate, but of love. We want Halo 4 to be the best Halo game yet as well.

8

its not really a pattern at all, its just what people use forums for.

9

> Now, seriously, let’s all take a step back and think for a second.
>
> The general idea held on this forum is that Reach was the Halo that wasn’t Halo. It was the bad egg in the bunch. The stinker. The ugly step child not worthy of the great family Halo name. Given, it took a near perfected, tried and true formula, and sprinkled it with a bunch of bull Yoink! (yes I’m looking at you, armor lock).
>
> In comes Halo 4, with a handful of things vaguely similar to Reach, and many people are upset, with many cries of “Halo 4=Halo Reach 2” and such.
>
> But. Older fans.
>
> Do you remeber.
>
> Halo 2.
>
> And the sheer amount of hate it got. Ohhhhhhh lordy you guys think people are critical of Reach… you have no idea. Same for Halo 3 (equipment, TWAS HERESY!). And yet, over time, these two sequels were accepted, and remain the most popular in the series. Now, all I’m trying to say is this is what 4 is going through right now.
>
> Change, good or bad, is subjective, and, is never, ever, welcomed with open arms. For a lot of people Halo 1 is the only Halo that is Halo. Give 4 a chance. Sure, MP might be reminiscent of another popular FPS franchise cough but let’s see what happens./rant

After Halo 2, there was a MASSIVE amount of hate for dual-wielding.

Same for equipment in Halo 3.

Then AAs in Reach.

While I can understand hatred for just one of these mechanics as personal preference, what I don’t get are these “veterans” who claim that ALL these mechanics ruin “classic Halo”. So by their reasoning, “classic Halo” is basically Halo CE with a few minor new additions like hijacking, ripping off turrets, and assassinations.

Is this what the “veteran” community really wants? Just Halo CE recycled with a few minor mechanics tacked on?

10

Anyone else think it’s worth noting that Bungie was still trying to balance these new features that people were complaining about with every new game.

Halo 2 Dual wielding - Halo 3 re-introduce the AR as start

Halo 3 Equipment - Halo Reach evolve them in to AA’s so that everybody has them (plus no DW)

Halo Reach Bloom and AA’s - (343i) Halo 4 BR no Bloom and Nerfed AA’s

I think the AR start was a great idea that counter-acted DW, it meant that DW was an option, a choice you made after the game had started. It meant DW wasn’t the focus of the initial gameplay.

Maybe as a community we should be helping 343i fix these features so that they work well during gameplay.

11

This is why i hate reach’s forum and why im starting to hate this one, its the same -Yoink- just change the name of the game

12

> > Now, seriously, let’s all take a step back and think for a second.
> >
> > The general idea held on this forum is that Reach was the Halo that wasn’t Halo. It was the bad egg in the bunch. The stinker. The ugly step child not worthy of the great family Halo name. Given, it took a near perfected, tried and true formula, and sprinkled it with a bunch of bull Yoink! (yes I’m looking at you, armor lock).
> >
> > In comes Halo 4, with a handful of things vaguely similar to Reach, and many people are upset, with many cries of “Halo 4=Halo Reach 2” and such.
> >
> > But. Older fans.
> >
> > Do you remeber.
> >
> > Halo 2.
> >
> > And the sheer amount of hate it got. Ohhhhhhh lordy you guys think people are critical of Reach… you have no idea. Same for Halo 3 (equipment, TWAS HERESY!). And yet, over time, these two sequels were accepted, and remain the most popular in the series. Now, all I’m trying to say is this is what 4 is going through right now.
> >
> > Change, good or bad, is subjective, and, is never, ever, welcomed with open arms. For a lot of people Halo 1 is the only Halo that is Halo. Give 4 a chance. Sure, MP might be reminiscent of another popular FPS franchise cough but let’s see what happens./rant
>
> After Halo 2, there was a MASSIVE amount of hate for dual-wielding.
>
> Same for equipment in Halo 3.
>
> Then AAs in Reach.
>
> While I can understand hatred for just one of these mechanics as personal preference, what I don’t get are these “veterans” who claim that ALL these mechanics ruin “classic Halo”. So by their reasoning, “classic Halo” is basically Halo CE with a few minor new additions like hijacking, ripping off turrets, and assassinations.
>
> Is this what the “veteran” community really wants? Just Halo CE recycled with a few minor mechanics tacked on?

The “veteran” community or whatever people refer to them as isn’t unified in what they want. I can say one thing that equipment, bloom, armor abilities, and many of the changes already announced for Halo 4 have in common is that they increased randomness in the game.

  • Equipment, while it gave you big advantages in certain situations (think bubble shield when the enemy has rockets) but it was impossible to tell if another player was carrying it, and it wasn’t treated like a power weapon which teams had to fight for control of (it respawned quickly and was often placed at decentralized locations).

  • Bloom literally made randomness a built in element of the game. Yeah, pacing your shots helped most of the time, but if you’re half shields fighting a fully shielded enemy, you’re going to spam because there’s no way you’d win by pacing your shots. Bloom could have been a great addition if they had built it in a way that it consistently punished spammers. But it didn’t, so it was a crappy addition.

  • Armor abilities not only broke the age old tradition of everyone starting on even ground, but in many cases it was impossible to tell what armor ability an opponent had until you started fighting them (think about all the times you sworded someone only to discover they had armor lock).

-Combined with other changes like the decrease in movement acceleration (this made strafing much less effective in halo 3 and especially Reach), and crappy maps like Sword Base and The Cage, I can definitely see why people didn’t like Reach or Halo 3 as much as previous titles.

And yes, there’s often irrationality in many of the arguments against change. But I think there are many more rational arguments as to why Reach and 3 weren’t as great as previous halo games.

13

Yes I remember the good ol days. I remember eoic walls of text dedicated to how hijacking lowered the skill gap. I remember rants about everything from melee lunge, melee weapons, slower movement, jump height, massive hitboxes, crappy weapons. And that’s before we even begin to mention the startling amount of bugs and glitches in that game, or the idiot community who didn’t view exploiting said bugs as cheating. Button combos, super bouncing, rocket lunging…and that doesn’t even cover how easy it was to mod that game.

Oh yes. I remember Halo 2 in it’s prime, and it was NOT well liked, because when you strip away the nostalgia Halo 2 was a buggy, laggy, poorly thought out and rushed game that catered to casuals.

14

> > Now, seriously, let’s all take a step back and think for a second.
> >
> > The general idea held on this forum is that Reach was the Halo that wasn’t Halo. It was the bad egg in the bunch. The stinker. The ugly step child not worthy of the great family Halo name. Given, it took a near perfected, tried and true formula, and sprinkled it with a bunch of bull Yoink! (yes I’m looking at you, armor lock).
> >
> > In comes Halo 4, with a handful of things vaguely similar to Reach, and many people are upset, with many cries of “Halo 4=Halo Reach 2” and such.
> >
> > But. Older fans.
> >
> > Do you remeber.
> >
> > Halo 2.
> >
> > And the sheer amount of hate it got. Ohhhhhhh lordy you guys think people are critical of Reach… you have no idea. Same for Halo 3 (equipment, TWAS HERESY!). And yet, over time, these two sequels were accepted, and remain the most popular in the series. Now, all I’m trying to say is this is what 4 is going through right now.
> >
> > Change, good or bad, is subjective, and, is never, ever, welcomed with open arms. For a lot of people Halo 1 is the only Halo that is Halo. Give 4 a chance. Sure, MP might be reminiscent of another popular FPS franchise cough but let’s see what happens./rant
>
> After Halo 2, there was a MASSIVE amount of hate for dual-wielding.
>
> Same for equipment in Halo 3.
>
> Then AAs in Reach.
>
> While I can understand hatred for just one of these mechanics as personal preference, what I don’t get are these “veterans” who claim that ALL these mechanics ruin “classic Halo”. So by their reasoning, “classic Halo” is basically Halo CE with a few minor new additions like hijacking, ripping off turrets, and assassinations.
>
> Is this what the “veteran” community really wants? Just Halo CE recycled with a few minor mechanics tacked on?

Basically, yes. And they know more about the game than the developer so we should all bow down and obey.

15

> Now, seriously, let’s all take a step back and think for a second.
>
> The general idea held on this forum is that Reach was the Halo that wasn’t Halo. It was the bad egg in the bunch. The stinker. The ugly step child not worthy of the great family Halo name. Given, it took a near perfected, tried and true formula, and sprinkled it with a bunch of bull Yoink! (yes I’m looking at you, armor lock).
>
> In comes Halo 4, with a handful of things vaguely similar to Reach, and many people are upset, with many cries of “Halo 4=Halo Reach 2” and such.
>
> But. Older fans.
>
> Do you remeber.
>
> Halo 2.
>
> And the sheer amount of hate it got. Ohhhhhhh lordy you guys think people are critical of Reach… you have no idea. Same for Halo 3 (equipment, TWAS HERESY!). And yet, over time, these two sequels were accepted, and remain the most popular in the series. Now, all I’m trying to say is this is what 4 is going through right now.
>
> Change, good or bad, is subjective, and, is never, ever, welcomed with open arms. For a lot of people Halo 1 is the only Halo that is Halo. Give 4 a chance. Sure, MP might be reminiscent of another popular FPS franchise cough but let’s see what happens./rant

Problem is, Reach and even 2 had few people complaining before launch. 4 on the other hand…

16

> > Now, seriously, let’s all take a step back and think for a second.
> >
> > The general idea held on this forum is that Reach was the Halo that wasn’t Halo. It was the bad egg in the bunch. The stinker. The ugly step child not worthy of the great family Halo name. Given, it took a near perfected, tried and true formula, and sprinkled it with a bunch of bull Yoink! (yes I’m looking at you, armor lock).
> >
> > In comes Halo 4, with a handful of things vaguely similar to Reach, and many people are upset, with many cries of “Halo 4=Halo Reach 2” and such.
> >
> > But. Older fans.
> >
> > Do you remeber.
> >
> > Halo 2.
> >
> > And the sheer amount of hate it got. Ohhhhhhh lordy you guys think people are critical of Reach… you have no idea. Same for Halo 3 (equipment, TWAS HERESY!). And yet, over time, these two sequels were accepted, and remain the most popular in the series. Now, all I’m trying to say is this is what 4 is going through right now.
> >
> > Change, good or bad, is subjective, and, is never, ever, welcomed with open arms. For a lot of people Halo 1 is the only Halo that is Halo. Give 4 a chance. Sure, MP might be reminiscent of another popular FPS franchise cough but let’s see what happens./rant
>
> Problem is, Reach and even 2 had few people complaining before launch. 4 on the other hand…

That’s just incorrect. Were you on b.net before Reach’s launch? It got just as much hate. The moment they showed that in game trailer with six stepping off the falcon, it was doomed. From day one people were complaining.

17

People will always rather the legacy games, as your memories aren’t quite what they are – it’s called miss-guided nostalgia. Making something that was good, seem absolutely amazing when you haven’t played/ watched it in a while (which cannot be matched)

18

In Final Fantasy X, it was the cycle of Sin and the Final Summoning.
In Mass Effect, it was the cycle of the Reapers.
In the Matrix, it was the cycle of…whatever the hell the robots and the Archiect were.
In Halo, its the cycle of the forum-users who bemoan every change and often have little constructive feedback other than “it’s not Halo” and expect the developers to rebuild the entire game to suit their tastes.

19

I agree.

20

> The “veteran” community or whatever people refer to them as isn’t unified in what they want. I can say one thing that equipment, bloom, armor abilities, and many of the changes already announced for Halo 4 have in common is that they increased randomness in the game.
>
> - Equipment, while it gave you big advantages in certain situations (think bubble shield when the enemy has rockets) but it was impossible to tell if another player was carrying it, and it wasn’t treated like a power weapon which teams had to fight for control of (it respawned quickly and was often placed at decentralized locations).
>
> - Bloom literally made randomness a built in element of the game. Yeah, pacing your shots helped most of the time, but if you’re half shields fighting a fully shielded enemy, you’re going to spam because there’s no way you’d win by pacing your shots. Bloom could have been a great addition if they had built it in a way that it consistently punished spammers. But it didn’t, so it was a crappy addition.
>
> - Armor abilities not only broke the age old tradition of everyone starting on even ground, but in many cases it was impossible to tell what armor ability an opponent had until you started fighting them (think about all the times you sworded someone only to discover they had armor lock).
>
> -Combined with other changes like the decrease in movement acceleration (this made strafing much less effective in halo 3 and especially Reach), and crappy maps like Sword Base and The Cage, I can definitely see why people didn’t like Reach or Halo 3 as much as previous titles.
>
> And yes, there’s often irrationality in many of the arguments against change. But I think there are many more rational arguments as to why Reach and 3 weren’t as great as previous halo games.

  • I agree with how “increasing randomness in the game” is a growing problem. However I think all of the aforementioned mechanics can become balanced with some tweaking:

  • Equipment and AAs: It should be made more obvious what AA we are using. Either we give off some kind of glow, or our choice of AA actually affects our armor appearance very noticeably. And I believe that all the hate on AAs would be fixed if AAs became pick-ups instead of loadouts. AAs aren’t the main problem, starting with them is. AAs on their own are awesome.

-Bloom: Agree with what you said about how it would work if it punished spammers. While spamming is sometimes a legitimate technique, proper pacing should be encouraged with bloom, not downplayed.

  • Movement acceleration: Agreed.

  • “Crappy maps” like Sword Base and The Cage: Disagree. They weren’t as fantastic pieces of designed as other Halo maps, but I liked SB’s vertical gameplay and the Cage’s unpredictability. Sure, a lot - A LOT - could be done to improve them. But all in all I think they weren’t as bad as most people say.