With literally everyone hating on the system on here (except Darwi) it’s a wonder why they don’t address the issue or change it.
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Good point - that could well be the reason why many people find it so hard to move up to the next tier - because the lowest skilled players in that tier are just happy to have made it and stop playing ranked.
343 can “gatekeep” my “CSR”. Heh. 
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The team has been conducting a “experiment” with CSR over the weekend. Yesterday I had a 30% win rate. The lowest I’ve ever seen since launch.
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Yeah it was a bad day for me.
You can check the post game stats on halotracker and it says which team had the higher chance of winning each match, and most of mine had me on the losing team with a 30-40% win chance. I was very aggressively being prevented from winning matches
Yep, I had two primary causes to my 70% loss ratio yesterday.
- Poor team balancing. Consistently getting inflated low diamond players on my team who’s skill sets was low platinum at best.
- Bad matchmaking. I live in Washington state and I had four games almost back to back on UK servers with UK teammates at 150+ ping. My average ping yesterday was 90. Which we all know anything above 60 is unplayable as is.
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That’s another factor that contributes to the problem. Most people are placed somewhere in low-mid Diamond in their placement rankings, which significantly muddies the talent pool. If someone is playing like a gold, but winds up a D1 because of a forgiving placement system, then the matchmaker is going to throw them in with people way better by “accident”
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God what a horrible community, people are now complaining that the matchmaking system actually puts them up against people with thumbs.
its been this way since 2004.
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imagine thinking that’s the issue lol
Your KPM is set BEFORE the game starts. It was you have been doing.
Or it is at least the KPM of what people of your level have been doing (this bit isn’t clear yet). But that is still established BEFORE the game starts.
But it has to wait for the game to finish to multiply that number by the match time to get your expected number. That is all.
It assumes nothing.
It’s saying if you want me to rank you up to Onyx then you need to match the x/y of what Onyx players are doing.
It’s just letting you know the standard being set by those ranked above you.
We should be using it as a tool to help up rank up!
Somewhat ironic that you are being extremely subjective about this.
The definition of a “worse” team mate seems to boil down to if you won or lost.
And Menke mentioned many times that the way the system is set up actually works well for people who genuinely perform well. If you carry (actual >> expected) you can push your MMR in the opposite direction to the result. You just need to do it consistently. Not just 1 in 10 games.
Winning is clearly #1.
You would hope that it’s not always that extreme. But the low population has been causing issues.
But if you are asked to go 30 and 10 - it’s because that’s what you have done before. It’s the benchmark. If you go 28 and 12 you have underperformed. But if you go 32 and 8 your MMR will tend to drift up.
That’s a very good point.
I don’t know how strong the influence would be - and it probably depends on who is playing at the start of each season.
I think Menke has addressed similar issues before. I recall him saying that it is slower to change your rank if you are the best player in a squad - and that your personal performance becomes more critical. I think he even suggested to a couple of players to try playing solo for a bit to boost their MMR?
I don’t recall the exact context - or know if/how it applies to the current low population problem.
Not sure what you mean by this. There is no ratio. Your CSR just chases your MMR but with a couple of rules (has to go up with a win and down with a loss - and can only change by a max of 15 points).
It’s frustrating. The key is not to count your CSR points. Especially not on a game to game basis.
You have to focus on pushing your MMR up. Were any of those wins against better sides. Were any of those losses against lesser ones?
How did you go expected vs average kills and deaths.
Keep in mind they probably didn’t want to be in the lobby either.
And it comes down to expected kills and deaths.
You can only say you “carried” them if you performed above expected. And you can only say they pulled you down if they performed below expected.
And was there anything you could control in the game. Communication? Even if they aren’t talking they may be listening. Did you recognise early they were in trouble - did anyone run with them to help them?
The other team probably had the same mix of skills - but were able to work better together.
And finally - the MMR system recognises when players carry or under perform. Your CSR has to go down on the loss but your MMR will work with you.
Do you have a reference for this?
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Yeah that’s why it gets you a nice solid 4 CSR per win and -15 per loss
4 CSR. For carrying more weight than a prize oxen
That’s the RANK. It’s how you RANK UP. If CSR doesn’t matter then CSR shouldn’t exist.
I’m literally forced to teach my teammates the basics of the game every match. I’m getting very tired of doing it. Especially when half the matches include people telling me to stop calling out or taking a hit off their bong on the mic or yelling expletives in other languages while they swan dive into fights one shot over and over.
There are graphs showing the most common rank is about Plat 6/D1/2. Almost nobody is Silver or Bronze, and very few people are Gold.
The bell curve is very skewed because the placement process is too forgiving. We tested it. An associate played absolutely awful on an alt and still placed Plat 6. People SELL Bronze accounts.
The ranking system doesn’t actually start until D3. Anything below that doesn’t matter
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That only happens when your MMR is above your CSR.
In this case it’s not so much winning that’s important. It’s don’t lose. You need to drag that MMR up or you are just going to hover around the same rank.
You know that personal performance doesn’t contribute to the post game CSR change. So let it go.
If you truly did carry (ie. actual > expected) then your MMR will be pushed up and that will carry into your next few games.
If you are just beating teams ranked around you, and performing as “expected”, you don’t deserve to rank up.
The context, as always, is don’t count your CSR points on each match.
Your rank is a trend. It shouldn’t swing on one result. In either direction.
And to that end, the main problem of the current CSR system is the scale. It needs to be reduced so players don’t frustrated with the game by game, or even day by day, fluctuations.
Start beating teams ranked above you. Consistently. And make sure you are at least meeting expectations on kills and deaths (or better, exceed them). And you will rank up. Over time.
Josh once said that a Platinum will perform as an Onyx in about 1:20 games. That doesn’t mean they are Onyx.
I think you are confusing the stat site graphs. These type of graphs only reflect those who join / log in to those services. Which will be heavily skewed to the right.
343 have confirmed that the median rank in Infinite is around Platinum 1.
They did publish some graphs towards the end of Season 1. It showed one of the queues was fairly perfect. The other one had a significant peak in Diamond 1 - which would have dragged the median up to Platinum 2 or 3.
Part of the reason for the big CSR reset mid S1 was too recalibrate that outlier.
Edit; found them. Via a website called dotesports. D1 was 5.7% in open queue (should have been around 4.2%) and 9.8% in Solo/Duo (should have been around 6.3%). It definitely needed addressing - but hardly constitutes “most” people.
Frustrating, but good work.
I don’t know what else to say. Team mates can be good and bad. As can leaders. If you feel you are losing more than winning because of your team-mates that means there are others out there winning more than they are losing with the same issue.
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That’s an absolutely insane way to ever approach a ranked playlist. Completely nonsensical.
“If you beat people ranked the same as you, you don’t deserve to rank up”
That’s LITERALLY the reason you SHOULD rank up.
And ffs the CSR change is HOW you rank up, so the CSR should change based on how well you are doing and how hard you carried the team.
If the ranking system is based on you being carried by better players, that’s moronic. The better players should rank up faster. YOU should be the stagnant one.
That’s evidently NOT how it works at all, because that’s what I do and I get a nice crispy 1-4 CSR per match.
What about that is not registering for you? What do I need to explain precisely?
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Really?
If you are Diamond 3 and you beat a team of Diamond 3 (and perform as expected) how can the system rank you up?
You have told it nothing except that it correctly ranked as Diamond 3.
The only insane thing is 343 giving you a token amount of CSR for the win - that just has to be paid back on your next loss.
Now, if you start winning those games more consistently and/or show a marked improvement in personal performance - then you deserve some harder games to give you a chance to prove yourself worthy of ranking up.
If you get instantly promoted for beating a team of the same rank you are just going to get thrashed - and spend the next few hours getting frustrated with your “bad” team mates.
The CSR is just a way of averaging out your MMR.
If you start beating better teams your MMR will go up - and your CSR will follow.
If you can’t beat those better teams (ie. you aren’t good enough) then your CSR will move back down to your MMR.
The message has been very consistent. The ranking system is based on beating teams that are better than you.
There is a weighting for personal performance based on KPM and DPM. Which can help you rank up faster. But it is only a weighting.
If you want to be Onyx then start going 50:50 vs Onyx teams.
Nothing really.
I’m pretty comfortable how the system is supposed to work.
I’m just trying to help you understand where you may have come to a standstill. I’m all for helping you push back into Onyx.
Stop fighting the system and try to use it to your advantage.
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yes, really. None of the rest of that section is based on any sort of logic. Its what people who don’t know how to play competitive FPS games think competitive SHOULD be, instead of what it IS. You win, you go up. You lose you go down. None of this stupid “if you win against pros then you go up a little but only if you also outslayed the pros and died less than them while carrying the oddball the most and controlling all the hills solo because your teammates aren’t going to help you.”
Insurmountable
So to get 5 CSR as a Diamond 5, you have to beat Onyx 1800’s multiple games in a row.
For some crazy reason that makes sense to you and not one other person on the planet.
Why. Nobody else is but you.
The system is actively working against me and thousands of other people. On PURPOSE.
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@Darwi you’ll be pleased to know I just lost CSR in a match where the game started with only 3 teammates on my team against their 4.
That’s your fair system right? I mean, If I was any good at the game I would be able to solo all 4 of them for about 5 CSR to win the match right? Because the system works perfectly with no flaws right?
I should just perform better than average right? I mean, if you can’t go 30 and 10 down a man then you’re just bad at the game right?
Right?
Oh its fair though because they had an Onyx 1605, that means the system is doing what its supposed to do and I should just perform better than expected, right?
Yeah, I won too many in a row so the powers that be are screwing me over to slap me back down. Good for them, I’m glad they have a game that is literally hemorrhaging players EVERY DAY, and this is the system we have to “boost player retention”.
Someone doesn’t know how to read the room.
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Ranking systems such as that are essentially sorting algorithms. They are VERY slow and inefficient.
You shouldn’t rank up if you beat a team lower ranked than you. That’s just silly.
You should only rank up by beating a team better than you. And the bigger the skill gap the more you should go up. That makes much more sense - and is essentially how it works now.
You are exaggerating now.
If you are beating the “pros” and matching them in the slaying stakes - you will very quickly be ranked as such.
Team mates can be troublesome. I’ll give you that. But it’s a team game. Hopefully you’ll get FFA ranked in the near future and then you won’t have to worry.
If you are playing and beating Onyx 1800 teams you will rank up very quickly.
If you are occasionally beating a team that just happens to have a high Onyx player - not so much.
Scanning through Halo Tracker yesterday you appeared to occasionally get low Onyx players for and against. And rarely more than one.
If you are only getting 5 CSR then you aren’t playing well enough to raise your MMR.
Ok…
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Have you considered that you have been given a rank that you cannot supersede because you’re not improving?
The problem seems to be that you have plateaued.
True match takes your MMR and predicts how you will perform based on this, finding you matches with a 50% win chance as often as possible. If you start winning more of these matches it will adjust team MMR values and you should be able to rank up.
Problem is you can’t rank up because you’re not improving.
With respect - this is a you problem
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No, because a large portion of my matches that I lose are unavoidable. Teammates quitting, teammates not even being in the game from the beginning, teammates I can’t possibly carry, really skewed team matchups (the post game reports often have my team on the 45-40% win chance side of things.
My ability to play the game has improved astronomically over the past few months, and its the SYSTEM that has decided not to care.
No algorithm can predict what a Gold 6 will do. They don’t even know what they’re supposed to do.
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Feels like you are maybe taking this game too seriously.
There have been reports of instability online, with people disconnecting more frequently and even getting banned. Drop pod arrived last night so maybe some of these changes have been fixed, guess we will have to wait and see.
What’s you’re measure for this? What have you learnt that has made you astronomically better?
Were you stuck at platinum 6 last season and now you’re stuck at diamond 6? What did you do to get over that hump last time?
The system is designed for you to achieve you’re rank and to hover there until you actually improve. So unless you’re actually performing better than expected in comparison to how you were 3 months ago you haven’t improved enough to break division.
Lol. So true.
It doesn’t predict what single players do. It bases it’s calculations per fireteam then award individuals based on team and individual performance. This is a choice made in order to reduce datapoints and therefore cost - it’s probably the single biggest issue with the system and is why they’ve enforced the rank variance caps,
Hopefully with ranked doubles you’ll have a better time. Smaller fireteams and an average team MMR that is less skewed due to there being less data points should allow for a more accurate calculation of your rank. Just remember though…once you reach it you will plateau again and it’s down to you to discover how you can improve further.
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