The Case for Commando Starts

Games Halo Infinite
1

I gave the BTB settings a go today for the first time and I have to say…the game would be almost unplayable without a better starting weapon. I spent the majority of my play time looking for any BR or Commando spawns, hoping I could find one so I would be able to do anything of value on such a large map. When the main strategy to play is looking for a base functional weapon, the implication is that the base functional weapon should be what you spawn with.

There is a case for having AR starts on smaller maps, since the AR isn’t useless anymore, but in BTB we really need something with more reliable range and stopping power. The vehicles alone prove that…they are very very strong and a good team would absolutely annihilate randoms all game if they couldn’t fight back.

That being said, I wouldn’t mind giving Commando starts a go. I feel like it’s a pleasant middle ground between the AR and BR in so many ways, and could appeal to both sides of the aisle. It’s a new weapon, it’s got a headshot bonus and decent range capabilities, it can be spammed for newer players who just want a full auto experience, and it actually feels good to use. I don’t see the real problem honestly.

As a bonus, it actually does decent damage to vehicle armor, unlike the AR and Sidekick. So it would be a fair team-shot based counter off the spawn without making the vehicles useless at the same time.

I really feel like the balance in this game is still off, but that the Commando is fitting a niche that could work best for everyone.

2

I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not a huge player of BTB…

But I thought the AR / pistol were fine. There were plenty of bigger guns to find / scavenge.

And with the staged presentation of vehicles it wasn’t a case of having to be anti-scorpion right off the bat.

And it was lovely jumping on a mongoose and not being killed instantly.

3

> 2585548714655118;2:
> But I thought the AR / pistol were fine. There were plenty of bigger guns to find / scavenge.

That’s my point, in a nutshell. Having to spend most of the game looking for usable weapons is not good game design. While half the team is looking for weapons, the other half is fighting the entire enemy team, etc. Being able to work together as soon as you spawn is much more efficient.

4

I would honestly prefer they just go with BR starts.

The Commando is capable of a much faster TTK than the BR and in BTB it showed pretty hard how dominant it can be on M&K, when ranges get too far out for even scoped BR and Commandos to have a red reticle M&K
players have much freer range to shut down controller players if all the have to work with that far out is a Commando.

5

> 2533274824268736;3:
> > 2585548714655118;2:
> > But I thought the AR / pistol were fine. There were plenty of bigger guns to find / scavenge.
>
> That’s my point, in a nutshell. Having to spend most of the game looking for usable weapons is not good game design. While half the team is looking for weapons, the other half is fighting the entire enemy team, etc. Being able to work together as soon as you spawn is much more efficient.

Isn’t there about six weapons literally at spawn, two of which are mid teir weapons? Also about 6 Brs on the maps as well as two “loot caves”
Not like the map forces you to use the starting weapons

Always found myself using diffrent weapons within seconds of the game starting. Didn’t ever get to the point where I was hunting for a better weapon

Plus if all else fails, there is the fusion coils to throw at people haha

6

> 2535417930992401;5:
> > 2533274824268736;3:
> > > 2585548714655118;2:
> > > But I thought the AR / pistol were fine. There were plenty of bigger guns to find / scavenge.
> >
> > That’s my point, in a nutshell. Having to spend most of the game looking for usable weapons is not good game design. While half the team is looking for weapons, the other half is fighting the entire enemy team, etc. Being able to work together as soon as you spawn is much more efficient.
>
> Isn’t there about six weapons literally at spawn, two of which are mid teir weapons? Also about 6 Brs on the maps as well as two “loot caves”
> Not like the map forces you to use the starting weapons
>
> Always found myself using diffrent weapons within seconds of the game starting. Didn’t ever get to the point where I was hunting for a better weapon
>
> Plus if all else fails, there is the fusion coils to throw at people haha

Why should you HAVE to look for a functional weapon just to play the game? Why not just spawn with something that works and go from there?

7

> 2533274810177460;4:
> I would honestly prefer they just go with BR starts.
>
> The Commando is capable of a much faster TTK than the BR and in BTB it showed pretty hard how dominant it can be on M&K, when ranges get too far out for even scoped BR and Commandos to have a red reticle M&K
> players have much freer range to shut down controller players if all the have to work with that far out is a Commando.

I mean, that’s just a case of MKB being broken in an FPS setting. They’re marketing the game to them for that reason. This was inevitable as soon as PC crossplay became a factor.

8

> 2533274824268736;3:
> > 2585548714655118;2:
> > But I thought the AR / pistol were fine. There were plenty of bigger guns to find / scavenge.
>
> That’s my point, in a nutshell. Having to spend most of the game looking for usable weapons is not good game design. While half the team is looking for weapons, the other half is fighting the entire enemy team, etc. Being able to work together as soon as you spawn is much more efficient.

I don’t agree that you had to actively look for weapons. They did a great job placing them along all the paths you take and I rarely had a spawn that didn’t allow me to gear up without effort if I wanted to.

Still very much like the idea of replacing the sidekick with the commando in BTB (So having and AR+Commando start). For one it wouldn’t mess with the engagement ranges too much (in comparison to BR starts, which is still laser accurate at very long range so will make moving around a lot more dangerous). Secondly it seems logical that Spartans are a bit heavier geared when going into a massive battle instead of an arena.

(Added the BR comment mainly to explain the impact of load-out engagement ranges, we have enough BR start posts so not trying to make this also one)

9

Bruh I just straight up don’t like the commando, maybe it’s the reticle, aim assist or it being a rapid fire full auto dmr basically, but I’d much rather have a BR, however it’s a step up from the sidekick.

I hardly ever trade my AR for the Commando.

10

Spawning the pistol and AR in BTB is awful. I’m not playing a Battle Royale game I shouldn’t have to run around and pick up something to defend myself with, hoping I don’t get picked off by someone who spawned closer to a BR/Commando/any power weapon before I do.

11

> 2533274800264382;10:
> Spawning the pistol and AR in BTB is awful. I’m not playing a Battle Royale game I shouldn’t have to run around and pick up something to defend myself with, hoping I don’t get picked off by someone who spawned closer to a BR/Commando/any power weapon before I do.

There’s plenty of cover and routes to take that you don’t need to engage someone at distance in most scenario’s.

I think they genuinely designed this with BR games in mind. Grand scale, larger map which means more movement. They’ve made it so you can fight at close range or long range if you want. Fragmentation has been designed well as you can enter almost every engagement with the AR/Sidekick if you want.

But there’s also a plethora of weapons you can scavenge. At no point did I respawn and was unable to get some good weapons or equipment within the first 10 seconds. You also don’t get caught on the spawn trap like in old Halo games. I absolutely love the format and think it helps casual players a bunch. I think more people will be able to enjoy it this way, especially newer players to the franchise.

12

> 2533274801036271;11:
> > 2533274800264382;10:
> > Spawning the pistol and AR in BTB is awful. I’m not playing a Battle Royale game I shouldn’t have to run around and pick up something to defend myself with, hoping I don’t get picked off by someone who spawned closer to a BR/Commando/any power weapon before I do.
>
> There’s plenty of cover and routes to take that you don’t need to engage someone at distance in most scenario’s.
>
> I think they genuinely designed this with BR games in mind. Grand scale, larger map which means more movement. They’ve made it so you can fight at close range or long range if you want. Fragmentation has been designed well as you can enter almost every engagement with the AR/Sidekick if you want.
>
> But there’s also a plethora of weapons you can scavenge. At no point did I respawn and was unable to get some good weapons or equipment within the first 10 seconds. You also don’t get caught on the spawn trap like in old Halo games. I absolutely love the format and think it helps casual players a bunch. I think more people will be able to enjoy it this way, especially newer players to the franchise.

Did you avoid picking up a BR or Commando when you came across it or did you immediately switch your AR/Sidekick for them?

13

> 2533274824268736;12:
> > 2533274801036271;11:
> > > 2533274800264382;10:
> > >
>
> Did you avoid picking up a BR or Commando when you came across it or did you immediately switch your AR/Sidekick for them?

I’d only pick up one of them, depending on the gametype was if I dropped the Sidekick or AR. Which I’ve never had to do in a Halo game before so those 4 weapons especially have been balanced beautifully.

But even though I scavenged and wanted the BR/Commando, I felt I could play with no issues with just the AR/Sidekick as well. They felt very useful a lot of the time based on the map layout. A lot of engagements fall into the ARs domain.

I’ve been having a blast with BTB honestly.

14

> 2533274824268736;6:
> > 2535417930992401;5:
> > > 2533274824268736;3:
> > > > 2585548714655118;2:
> > > > But I thought the AR / pistol were fine. There were plenty of bigger guns to find / scavenge.
> > >
> > > That’s my point, in a nutshell. Having to spend most of the game looking for usable weapons is not good game design. While half the team is looking for weapons, the other half is fighting the entire enemy team, etc. Being able to work together as soon as you spawn is much more efficient.
> >
> > Isn’t there about six weapons literally at spawn, two of which are mid teir weapons? Also about 6 Brs on the maps as well as two “loot caves”
> > Not like the map forces you to use the starting weapons
> >
> > Always found myself using diffrent weapons within seconds of the game starting. Didn’t ever get to the point where I was hunting for a better weapon
> >
> > Plus if all else fails, there is the fusion coils to throw at people haha
>
> Why should you HAVE to look for a functional weapon just to play the game? Why not just spawn with something that works and go from there?

Because this is Halo, not CoD you don’t have a loadouts in Halo, since the beginning of Xbox Live it has always been about map/weapon control. If you want loadouts in Halo go play Halo 4/Reach/Warzone. Halo infinite is designed to be a dynamic play where you are constantly building on your loadouts through small firefights and managing ammo and equipment this sort of system is lifted straight from Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST, and 5. If they do Commando or BR starts you will have no reason to swap it out and it would just be about cross map engagements instead of having a balance between close, medium, and long ranges that BTB currently has.

15

I think a Commando Start is honestly a great idea. The BR is still better than it due to its longer range and higher consistency of shot placement and it’s where the AR is right now - if the AR gets a nerf, and it should, the The Commando is an excellent BTB starting weapon choice…!

16

Main problem I see with people being uncomfortable with the lack of BR/precision starts is that we’ve been conditioned to accept it as normal since Halo Reach, where you could pick people off from range from the other side of the map. People are upset that the AR is not useful, but this is by far the most powerful AR we’ve ever had since CE.

Halo’s TTK is long enough that you can be engaged at long range by someone with a BR, find cover, and either work your way towards him to close the gap or to just escape.

> There is a case for having AR starts on smaller maps, since the AR isn’t useless anymore, but in BTB we really need something with more reliable range and stopping power. The vehicles alone prove that…they are very very strong and a good team would absolutely annihilate randoms all game if they couldn’t fight back.

Why shouldn’t a group of randoms be annihilated by a skilled, well co-ordinated team?

> Having to spend most of the game looking for usable weapons is not good game design.

> Why should you HAVE to look for a functional weapon just to play the game? Why not just spawn with something that works and go from there?

This has ALWAYS been the game design of Halo, and it works. Start out with an all-rounder, and grab the weapons you want. If you can’t find them, pry it off the dead hands of someone who does. As I said about the AR’s ‘usability’, it’s not the AR that is bad, in fact it’s devilishly powerful, but it’s the fact that it’s probably pushing you out of your comfort zone with not starting the game with a precision weapon. The BTB map we played had plenty of cover spots to keep you out of the crosshairs of players with precision weapons. Furthermore, the BTB map we played on was littered with BR/commando weapon racks.

> I wouldn’t mind giving Commando starts a go. I feel like it’s a pleasant middle ground between the AR and BR in so many ways

I disagree. Have you seen the amount of ammo that the commando has when you pick it up? That’s there for a reason. In the hands of a very skilled player the commando is an absolute death machine. Infinite’s TTK is already weirdly low compared to other games, it would be almost at Call of Duty levels if we had commando starts.

BR starts I would be happy with. In separate playlists like we do with the AR/Precision Starts on MCC. But the commando? Very much not.

17

> 2533274824268736;3:
> > 2585548714655118;2:
> > But I thought the AR / pistol were fine. There were plenty of bigger guns to find / scavenge.
>
> That’s my point, in a nutshell. Having to spend most of the game looking for usable weapons is not good game design. While half the team is looking for weapons, the other half is fighting the entire enemy team, etc. Being able to work together as soon as you spawn is much more efficient.

That wasn’t the vibe I was getting.

I didn’t feel defenceless off the bat. Certainly not to the point where I was wasting time and not joining in the game.

And it didn’t take too long to find an upgrade or two.

I thought it was a nice balance. You weren’t immediately under a hail of long range precision gun fire (yay - let’s go mongoosin’). Plus there has to be some penalty for dying. If you immediately respawn with a WMD there is no point trying to stay alive.

18

The complaints about this game are all over the place.

I’ve heard/read loads of people saying the AR is too powerful and has too much range and now others saying it’s useless and has to be replaced with the BR or Commando.

Personally I didn’t feel like I was helpless with the AR in BTB and there seemed to be far more BR or Commando pickups than there used to be BR or DMR pickups in past Halo games so it was very easy to swap out anyway.

19

> 2533274969977277;14:
> > 2533274824268736;6:
> > > 2535417930992401;5:
> > > > 2533274824268736;3:
> > > > > 2585548714655118;2:
> > > > > But I thought the AR / pistol were fine. There were plenty of bigger guns to find / scavenge.
> > > >
> > > > That’s my point, in a nutshell. Having to spend most of the game looking for usable weapons is not good game design. While half the team is looking for weapons, the other half is fighting the entire enemy team, etc. Being able to work together as soon as you spawn is much more efficient.
> > >
> > > Isn’t there about six weapons literally at spawn, two of which are mid teir weapons? Also about 6 Brs on the maps as well as two “loot caves”
> > > Not like the map forces you to use the starting weapons
> > >
> > > Always found myself using diffrent weapons within seconds of the game starting. Didn’t ever get to the point where I was hunting for a better weapon
> > >
> > > Plus if all else fails, there is the fusion coils to throw at people haha
> >
> > Why should you HAVE to look for a functional weapon just to play the game? Why not just spawn with something that works and go from there?
>
> Because this is Halo, not CoD you don’t have a loadouts in Halo, since the beginning of Xbox Live it has always been about map/weapon control. If you want loadouts in Halo go play Halo 4/Reach/Warzone. Halo infinite is designed to be a dynamic play where you are constantly building on your loadouts through small firefights and managing ammo and equipment this sort of system is lifted straight from Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST, and 5. If they do Commando or BR starts you will have no reason to swap it out and it would just be about cross map engagements instead of having a balance between close, medium, and long ranges that BTB currently has.

There has not been a single halo where you didn’t have a functional starting weapon in the main game type.

The pistol in CE, the BR or DMR in all games after, etc.

Everyone that’s saying the AR and Sidekick will be enough are seriously underestimating what it will be like when they run into good players. A good btb team will make playing AR starts impossible for you all. You have to have something more well rounded than the AR to compete off the spawn.

20

As those feedback from M/K players, if Commando starts, controller players will lose most range fight, but that’s no matter what starts. Each side (1/3 map) has 8 BR/Commando racks on Fragmentation, totally 20.

Map Layout: imgur.com/a/BN1AXzr