The BR and AR are the biggest problem for the franchise's sandbox problems

Despite being iconic staples to the franchise, I firmly believe that these two weapons are why the Halo franchise has in summary gone through a process I call the combat devolved crisis and ultimately why Halo needs to move on from these weapons for the foreseeable future. I’ll explain why in brief detail.

Both of these weapons peaked in their first appearance and I’ll start with one rifle first:

The AR was basically a spray and pray weapon that had a fire rate of a sub machine gun but has a range of an ordinary assault rifle. Contrary to popular belief, the AR in Halo Combat Evolved indeed has range. You just have to do burst fire manually to nail nearly every shot at a target. Playing the map Boarding Action demonstrates this. The weapon truly lived up to the name because while it is an assault rifle, it carries 60 rounds and has a quick fire rate like an Uzi. Making it a deadly weapon up close and still lethal down range when going burst. It has a purpose in the sandbox, being optimized up close when facing against say the Magnum and generally beats every weapon up close most of the time besides the shotgun.

Unfortunately every version of the AR got worse than, devolving into a regular modern day, standard assault rifle with a drop of 32 rounds, then for some reason 36 in the last two installments. We gone through the rifle getting worse and worse until Guardians allowed it to be the equivalent of Call of Duty’s M4, being too viable and easy to use in every range and scenario. This problem in Guardians was amplified to a 10 in the next game, creating an infinite amount of problems for the AR since it defeats every weapon but the Sidekick (and obviously power weapons of course).

As we know Halo 2 introduced the BR. This rifle replaced the Magnum and shoots burst, not semi. While being faster in projectiles making it essentially hitscan, the weapon is a lot easier to use compared to the Magnum in CE. The saving grace are the button combos regarding skill gap. Despite steamrolling the game’s entire sandbox, at least the BR is fun to use for and introduced depth. You can hate the button combos and consider it lame or cheating, fact remains is that it is very distinct from other BRs and the weapon itself created an entire meta. It’s interesting and in a way evolved some of Halo’s combat even if I disagree with it being hitscan, burst and frankly too easy to use. While I prefer the beta version of the H2 BR, the final version is the best official BR to date.

Just like the AR, the BR got neutered and arguably weaker in every sequel. H3 took away the entire appeal of the BR from 2 and made it a bland and unsatisfying weapon to use. Leading shots with a weapon that’s burst in an arena shooter is demonstrably terrible and there’s a reason no Halo game has returned to the model H3 did with it. Even Destiny 2 made sure the BXR55 wasn’t following the travesty footsteps 3 did (leading shots, slower projectile, random spread etc). This has lead to every sequel besides Guardians being basically H2 BR being a laser weapon that doesn’t miss except no button combos.

Guardians added the inconsistent recoil. Making it very ineffective and useless since Magnum and Promethean pistol stomp it. Infinite managed to make it have terrible spread and poorly zeroed, your shot goes way too high. This is noticed easily in gun fights as the BR is not caring of skill but luck. You either get that lucky spread or don’t. At least 2 BR spread wasn’t insane and tightly nit.

The reason the respective weapons peaked in their first appearance is due to having a scenario of purpose or place in the sandbox (AR in CE), or altering the combat of Halo in some unique form compared to it’s predecessor (Halo 2 BR). Most importantly, they stood out. Not causing redundancy or clones in the sandbox in which 4 and Guardians greatly indicate the problems of a logjam weapon sandbox.

In Halo Infinite, these two rifles frankly further illustrate just exactly why they need to either be removed, or never appear in a future Halo title ever again. They caused a new problem with their appearance in Infinite which is, the sandbox no longer having a purpose anymore.

Why use anything else but the AR in mid or sometimes close range when it out guns everything, even Sidekick from time to time? Why use anything else but the BR when in long range? The sniper, Shock Rifle, Pulse Carbine, Stalker Rifle, in multiplayer frankly all suck. They just don’t even matter. No skill ceiling, no depth, no strategy, nothing.

Yes, the Halo 2 BR was a God tier weapon with BXR, double or quad shots but it still lost to say a duel wield SMG up close or Sniper Rifle /Beam Rifle. Even the Carbine gave it some fights. Even plasma pistol to melee can cause surprises.

The BR and AR in Infinite dominate their respective ranges to where it negates the sandbox variety entirely even with the sole fact they removed redundancy problem in Halo Infinite. These two weapons even in other games have managed to harm the sandbox overall in various games, not just Infinite.

Noob combo gave Bungie the idea to make plasma pistols do EMPs. The SMG (which is an improvement from the CE AR since it’s able to carry two and is even faster fire rate) has unfortunately degraded the plasma rifle (no more stun mechanic, which only CE had) because they had to showcase the BR. Reach introduced bloom to combat the problems the BR brings to the sandbox, but no one likes bloom and would rather stick with hitscan anyway. Yet hitscan leads to higher aim assist and magnetism, which reduces skill ceiling?

Do you see why I just want these weapons gone? They will never live to their peak and even then, caused problems in their sandbox since their very inception. Halo needs to move on from these two rifles. Come up with something new, and I’m not talking about the Commando for the prophets sakes. The combat devolved crisis aka sandbox problem is a thing plaguing this series because the franchise refuses to move on from these two weapons.

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I see what you mean and it sounds like you realy prefer the older weapons. 343 did say they would add new items to the sandbox, what they should do (or at least it would be cool if they do this) is add the halo 2 BR and the halo CE Assault rifle as power items. They would be far more powerful in a way, and if they do this they should nerf or buff the original two. I understand you think the weapons have been on a rollercoaster but lets real, they are NOT leaving anytime soon.

The AR is a close range weapon with mid range capabilities. It is outgunned by the Sentinel Beam and Needler in short range, the Bulldog / Heatwave win in close range, the Sidekick / Commando in the hands of a skilled user will beat the AR every single time as well, and then obviously every power weapon beats the AR. You can make an arguement for other weapons situationally (example plasma pistol, mangler with melee). Obviously every ranged weapon will also beat the AR when not in a short range gunfight. Really the only thing the AR has going for it is it’s easy to use.

The BR75 has one of the slowest TTK in the game. The Sniper is a one shot headshot, as is the Shock Rifle (which has bonus EMP and chain damage), the Stalker Rifle is a 3 shot kill if you hit your headshot, the Pulse Carbine is also a 2-3 burst kill which beats the BR75 when enemies are in that mid range sweet spot (especially if you switch to a sidekick to finish the enemy). Even the Sidekick and the Commando are more powerful than the BR75. Again, what does the BR75 have going for it (besides range)? Like the AR, it is easy to use.

You (and everyone, myself included) use the AR and BR because they are consistent and reliable, but if you’re skilled the other weapons all give you an edge in combat, especially if you play smart.

Claiming the AR and BR have to go is a huge hot take, they are the foundation of the weapon sandbox, they are literally the basic weapons in the game.

This thread I made which compares scores from the weapon drills had the BR ranked 14th and the AR 17th out of 20 weapons (Sword and Hammer weren’t included). Its not perfect, but it illustrates a weapons damage potential. The BR and AR are far from the best weapons in the game, they’re just the easiest to use.

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/t/weapon-drills-weapon-rankings/512608

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There are definitely ways to counter the AR, my favorite being the Pulse Carbine to Sidekick headshot combo. However as you said, the AR like the BR is just too consistent. Favyn’s video on the AR highlights exactly why it is problematic. Sure you can use other weapons if skilled but it doesn’t help when anyone who lacks skill can continue to use the AR. Regardless of the weapon rankings, Favyn’s video in various rounds proves that the AR needs to be nerf and it simply makes no sense in a Halo game anymore, since the SMG with duel wielding was the perfect replacement in the first place (not the Halo 3 SMG, they nerfed it severely). Favyn event accounted for each weapons range to demonstrate just how much damage it has done to this sandbox alone.

What this has caused is a breakdown of Halo’s sandbox meta. The precision weapon now gets outgunned by the automatic. I’m not sure if you don’t see why this is very bad for the pvp, but it’s just wrong.

To not cause confusion, I’m specifically addressing the sandbox for pvp environment. I’ll concede that the sandbox is fine for the campaign. The multiplayer is where you noticed huge faults, to which I’m surprised that 343 won’t nerf the AR but they will nerf the Wrangler, to the point where it’s now useless and just another Bulldog. The Bulldog on paper should beat AR but a lot of times, it’s just not the case due to headshot multiplier.

You are definitely correct that the Needler beats it. I frankly forgot to even mention it but you’re correct. I give the Needler a pass since it’s technically a power weapon.

Last point on Commando, I can’t judge since I personally hate it and find it difficult to use. I’ll have to adjust to it, but I may eventually concede to it being better than BR since the BR is just a mess overall with being inconsistent at times or just weird. Such as headshots being counted when you aim at the chest.

Overall I do appreciate your response and will give the game a play through sometime and assess the sandbox again. It could just be that the skill ceiling of Infinite, with the AR being too easy, has made the game far less competitive compared to Guardians and even previous games.

I still believe these two weapons need to go because even fans of these weapons even have preferences for whatever version was the best or did it correctly. I would rather have replacements entirely. Which I advocate for.

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I would only EVER accept the BR being removed if the CE Magnum replaces it. Same goes for the AR if the Mangler became the new AR.

I don’t believe BR and AR can be removed with Halo not feeling like Halo though.

This is just untrue though. The MK50 Sidekick outguns the MA40 AR at any range, it just requires more skill. This is exactly what I like about Halo right now, for a new player the AR is a suitable choice but experienced players are going to beat you with the Sidekick. When I started playing Halo Infinite my “go to” was the AR, now that I’ve played enough I’ve realized the Sidekick gives me an edge in combat. The only gun the AR beats in TTK at short range is the BR75, which is fair considering the AR is useless vs the BR at Mid - Long Range.

By “God-tier”, you really meant it was strong enough to compete in most scenarios and versus Rockets and Snipers. The og H2 BR (post-patch) was good, and favored, because it was consistent, similar range to the M6D from HCE, and a good versatile starting weapon.

The glitches have nothing to do with how favored it was. In fact, most regular players including very good players never used them especially since few used claw-grip.

Dual-SMG was useless except for giggles. If you were a good player, you likely knew the benefit of being able to use grenades or combo’ing the BR with any weapon like PP, PR, Shotgun, or Sniper (even though PP was a cheese move and would diminish the skill presented). Anyway, I lost count the number of times some player thinks they are getting the drop on me with dual-SMGs, only to die from my nade-shot.

Had to be said :grin:
The biggest problem with the sandbox was setting close-ranged weapons that can’t compete with mid to long ranged and power weapons as your starting weapon. It resulted in so many things people hate like reticule or bullet bloom, loadouts, weaker BR (ie H3), and strong AR.

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