The big problem nobody talks about...

Games Other Halo
1

We’ve all addressed or heard others address problems in halo 4 some time or another…

Wether it be an op weapon, flinch replacing scope, and a plethora of weapons and features from previous halo iterations removed I. This game…

We have all heard it, and we all more or less respond to these threads in the same way, asking 343 for change and asking why it was in the game in the first place…

But here’s an issue that I don’t see many people discuss, and this is in my opinion the issue that RUINS the game, and no matter how lenient I have bee. With halo 4, this issue was what pushed me to the edge to the point of never playing it…

the entire remodeling of the halo multiplayer experience…

Now, at first, you might sound confused, how was halo changed gameplay wise? It still has the same vehicle and weapons, similar maps, and you still need to deplete shields to kill, but this is an issue that needs to be looked at in a more broader sense…

Let’s look at what halo is…

Halo is an Arena style first person shooter, similar to the Quakes and unreal tournaments of its time, where each individual player started with the same weapons, health, speed, ect… And all the tools of destruction you needed were on the map…

Want to hop into. Attlee immediately but don’t like your assault rifle? Pick up a battle rifle or a covenant carbine, they can be found all over the map…

Want CQB power? Grab a shotgun, mauler, or duel wield a magnum or spiked you find off of a dead spartan

Looking to stay back and pick up Spartans at a distance? Get control of the sniper, with some practice, snipe away

Want something bigger deadlier to turn the tide of a match? Coordinate with your team to control the center of the map and pick up a rocket launcher, beam rifle, ect…

Teamwork and death match skills are important in order to win a halo match, you have to be Abel to control strategic points with high activity and to understand the value of the weapon you pick up…

That seemed to be how halo worked, and it was popular, bring halo 3 to be the peak of its franchise, being the #1 shooting franchise of 2007, beating out modern warfare ( remember this) and the orange box…

But now, with halo 4 we have a drastically different play style, that seems to fit to the casual crowd… At least in theory…

Instead off starting off from scratch, players now have the option to choose what primary they want, what secondary they want, even what grenades they want…

And that’s just weapons, now we have the option of game enhancing abilities likes perks, and armor belittles that give us a handicap in certain situations…

Want to take out that tank? You don’t need teamwork to take it out, just put a plasma pistol and sticky grenades in your load outs and take it out in seconds flat, you don’t even need to be in a vie hole since there are so many counters to them…

Want to get to that certain area without map knowledge and being careful not to get killed trying to get. There? Put on a jet pack and just glide to that area in mere seconds…

Want a good power weapon but don’t want to pick it up on the map and get killed a second later because you suck? Just rack up a couple kills and use personal ordinance to get the big rocket launcher you always wanted but weren’t good enough to hold on too…

So, in the end, what halo comes out to be is. Now a mesh of everybody having what they want, when they need it, and no encouragement to work as a team or lay eye weapon you hold…

Is that really what halos about? Is this what people play halo for?
There’s updating a game to meet modern standards, and then there’s changing an entire genre to get more sales… And we all know what halo 4 did…

So, unless 343 can is willing to change back to Arena style shooting, I don’t think halo will ever be the big hard hitting franchise it was back in the day, and all that’ll be left are clutches for players who don’t want to use skill or tactics to succeed in a match…

I doubt halo 5 will change… Ahh well?.. There’s quake 5 coming out in a year or 2, so arena gaming snot dead yet…

It’s just dead in halo

2

Really? I see this stuff typed all the time.

3

> Really? I see this stuff typed all the time.

Mindflip

Yea, this has been talked about so many times. This is essentially loadout and ordnance discussion.

4

how does nobody talk about ordnance or loadouts?

this is the most talked about thing on this website dude.

we just have to hope halo 5 is better and they stop going in this direction. i think reach was as far as it needed to go when it comes to perks and classes. that to me is the best middle ground.

5

Halo 4, like CoD, is what I call teamwork-indifferent. That is, the gameplay encourages players to customize their playstyle regardless of the team.

Now, this works in games that are designed for classes. Take the traditional MMORPG classes as examples: tank, DPS (damage-per-second), and healer. The tank draws the enemies to him, the DPS kill the enemies, and the healer makes sure everyone stays alive. Each one of these players has a role so important that if he fails even for a moment, he could cause the entire team to fail.

In Halo 4 though, classes/loadouts are not dependent on each other. Everyone is free, encouraged even, to play how they want to play regardless of what their team needs. You would almost never see 4 healers in WoW get together and attempt to take on a dungeon, but you often see six players in Halo 4 equip Gunner and Wheelman and fight over the Mantis.

Personal Ordnance does the same thing. Power weapons are no longer seen as team advantages, but individual advantages. My POD is mine, and since I have it, I’m going to use it regardless of how useless it would be to me or my team.

All-in-all, Halo 4 creates an environment that allows and encourages players to play however the heck they want regardless of the team. This is why teammates in Halo 4 are less cooperative, less competent, less friendly, and less team-oriented than in any previous Halo game.

6

People discuss this all the time.

7

> Really? I see this stuff typed all the time.

> Yea, this has been talked about so many times. This is essentially loadout and ordnance discussion.

> how does nobody talk about ordnance or loadouts?

> People discuss this all the time.

Usually, when I see arguments against loadouts, they are about the imbalanced options (e.g. Boltshot, Active Camo) or the unpredictability. I don’t often see people make the case that they lead to a lack of teamwork. I’m pretty sure that’s what the OP was trying to say.

8

Since the update normal weapons have been placed on the maps and we’ve had to pick up power weapons and grenades since the beginning. So Halo 4 is still an arena game for the most part.

9

> Now, this works in games that are designed for classes. Take the traditional MMORPG classes as examples: tank, DPS (damage-per-second), and healer. The tank draws the enemies to him, the DPS kill the enemies, and the healer makes sure everyone stays alive. Each one of these players has a role so important that if he fails even for a moment, he could cause the entire team to fail.

Well, the concept of teamwork was the whole point of the game when AA’s were introduced in Reach. The main character didn’t even have a name. The opening cutscene talked about lone wolf tactics not being an option.

This would have been ok if that sort of thing had stayed with Reach. Unfortunately 343i decided to make a sequel to Reach instead of Halo 3. After all, we all learned that SPARTANS seemed to be able to do just fine without AA’s in Halo CE - 3, all of which took place after the events of Reach. It has not been explained in canon yet why AA’s made a comeback, but the introduction of specializations without encouraging a need for forming a team as described in the quote above suggests that the multiplayer folks never talked to the campaign/story folks.

10

> Want to take out that tank? You don’t need teamwork to take it out, just put a plasma pistol and sticky grenades in your load outs and take it out in seconds flat, you don’t even need to be in a vie hole since there are so many counters to them…
>
> Want to get to that certain area without map knowledge and being careful not to get killed trying to get. There? Put on a jet pack and just glide to that area in mere seconds…
>
> Want a good power weapon but don’t want to pick it up on the map and get killed a second later because you suck? Just rack up a couple kills and use personal ordinance to get the big rocket launcher you always wanted but weren’t good enough to hold on too…

I liked the idea of personal loadouts, but I was instantly critical of the covenant and forerunner tech being available in them. Plasma grenades and plasma pistols really do hurt the concept of teamwork in Halo 4 multiplayer. I wish they had limited our loadouts to human tech only.

To be honest, I never did like many of the armor abilities. Holograms especially just feel out of place in halo.

I think personal ordinance is an awesome idea, but it was implemented poorly. My solution would have had it so you could only call in ordinance at certain locations, making it important for your team to hold a position. The conditions for ordinance acquisition would have been harder to achieve as well. These locations would also replace power weapon spawns; so in essence ordinance would become the new power weapon. Then I would have made two separate playlists at the release of the game, so that the classic gametype was still available.

11

> Really? I see this stuff typed all the time.

Just because I mentioned load outs and ordinance doesn’t mean I’m talking about them in the same sense as everyone else…

What I mean is, these new features completely changed the gameplay and style of halo…

Teamwork is no longer nessisary, you don’t have to work together to control important weapons or hold a good area, you can just use armor abilities or your specific load outs to do whatever you want…

I’ll be honest, outside of spinoff , I’ve never seen an entire genre of a video game changed before halo 4…

We’ll at least on console…

12

> > Really? I see this stuff typed all the time.
>
> Just because I mentioned load outs and ordinance doesn’t mean I’m talking about them in the same sense as everyone else…
>
> What I mean is, these new features completely changed the gameplay and style of halo…
>
>
> Teamwork is no longer nessisary, you don’t have to work together to control important weapons or hold a good area, you can just use armor abilities or your specific load outs to do whatever you want…
>
>
> I’ll be honest, outside of spinoff , I’ve never seen an entire genre of a video game changed before halo 4…
>
> We’ll at least on console…

All of which has been talked about quite a bit.

I’m not saying you should stop, at least not until if/when all of it gets sorted out, but we’ve been over this a thousand times already, and probably will a thousand times more.

Really, how HAVEN’T you seen all of this stuff before?

13

> > > Really? I see this stuff typed all the time.
> >
> > Just because I mentioned load outs and ordinance doesn’t mean I’m talking about them in the same sense as everyone else…
> >
> > What I mean is, these new features completely changed the gameplay and style of halo…
> >
> >
> > Teamwork is no longer nessisary, you don’t have to work together to control important weapons or hold a good area, you can just use armor abilities or your specific load outs to do whatever you want…
> >
> >
> > I’ll be honest, outside of spinoff , I’ve never seen an entire genre of a video game changed before halo 4…
> >
> > We’ll at least on console…
>
> All of which has been talked about quite a bit.
>
> I’m not saying you should stop, at least not until if/when all of it gets sorted out, but we’ve been over this a thousand times already, and probably will a thousand times more.
>
> Really, how HAVEN’T you seen all of this stuff before?

Once again, just because I brin me up doesn’t mean I mean it in the same context as other people…

Most other people just say its bad because of a certain weapon or that it makes halo unpredictable,

I say it ruined the fundamentals of halo…

Look more into my posts next time…

14

> > > > Really? I see this stuff typed all the time.
> > >
> > > Just because I mentioned load outs and ordinance doesn’t mean I’m talking about them in the same sense as everyone else…
> > >
> > > What I mean is, these new features completely changed the gameplay and style of halo…
> > >
> > >
> > > Teamwork is no longer nessisary, you don’t have to work together to control important weapons or hold a good area, you can just use armor abilities or your specific load outs to do whatever you want…
> >
> > Really, how HAVEN’T you seen all of this stuff before?
>
> Most other people just say its bad because of a certain weapon or that it makes halo unpredictable,
>
>
> I say it ruined the fundamentals of halo…

Well, to El Tigre’s credit, I have seen the fundamentals of halo discussed in the same light as you have brought it up.

Although I don’t think Halo 4 fundamentals have been “ruined”, I would say they are scarred or warped. You bring up very good points that I agree with.

I think the greatest issue was the lack of classic playlists that were sacrificed in favor of unpopular gametypes. People were not finding their favorite gametype, or if they did, it was changed beyond recognition with game options decided by 343i (often for the worse).

15

> Most other people just say its bad because of a certain weapon or that it makes halo unpredictable, I say it ruined the fundamentals of halo…

Yeah, plenty of people have made that point, and quite a few of them have used those exact words, too…

16

APPLAUSE

Did you read my mind or something? I’ve literally had the exzact same thoughts. Halo 4 is CoD in a future setting. Whereas in 3/Reach people would fight over power weapons, sometimes for whole games, now people just use their OP BRs/DMRs and personal ordnance because they don’t care.

17

> Halo 4, like CoD, is what I call teamwork-indifferent. That is, the gameplay encourages players to customize their playstyle regardless of the team.
>
> Now, this works in games that are designed for classes. Take the traditional MMORPG classes as examples: tank, DPS (damage-per-second), and healer. The tank draws the enemies to him, the DPS kill the enemies, and the healer makes sure everyone stays alive. Each one of these players has a role so important that if he fails even for a moment, he could cause the entire team to fail.
>
> In Halo 4 though, classes/loadouts are not dependent on each other. Everyone is free, encouraged even, to play how they want to play regardless of what their team needs. You would almost never see 4 healers in WoW get together and attempt to take on a dungeon, but you often see six players in Halo 4 equip Gunner and Wheelman and fight over the Mantis.
>
> Personal Ordnance does the same thing. Power weapons are no longer seen as team advantages, but individual advantages. My POD is mine, and since I have it, I’m going to use it regardless of how useless it would be to me or my team.
>
> All-in-all, Halo 4 creates an environment that allows and encourages players to play however the heck they want regardless of the team. This is why teammates in Halo 4 are less cooperative, less competent, less friendly, and less team-oriented than in any previous Halo game.

this

18

> <mark>Halo 4, like CoD, is what I call teamwork-indifferent.</mark> That is, the gameplay <mark>encourages players to customize their playstyle regardless of the team.</mark>
>
> Now, this works in games that are designed for classes. <mark>Take the traditional MMORPG classes as examples: tank, DPS (damage-per-second), and healer.</mark> The tank draws the enemies to him, the DPS kill the enemies, and the healer makes sure everyone stays alive. <mark>Each one of these players has a role so important that if he fails even for a moment, he could cause the entire team to fail.</mark>
>
> <mark>In Halo 4 though, classes/loadouts are not dependent on each other. Everyone is free, encouraged even, to play how they want to play regardless of what their team needs.</mark> You would almost never see 4 healers in WoW get together and attempt to take on a dungeon, but <mark>you often see six players in Halo 4 equip Gunner and Wheelman and fight over the Mantis.</mark>
>
> Personal Ordnance does the same thing. <mark>Power weapons are no longer seen as team advantages, but individual advantages.</mark> My POD is mine, and since I have it, I’m going to use it regardless of how useless it would be to me or my team.
>
> All-in-all, <mark>Halo 4 creates an environment that allows and encourages players to play however the heck they want regardless of the team.</mark> This is why teammates in Halo 4 are less cooperative, less competent, less friendly, and less team-oriented than in any previous Halo game.

^ Absolutely correct.

19

> Halo is an Arena style first person shooter, similar to the Quakes and unreal tournaments of its time, where each individual player started with the same weapons, health, speed, ect… And all the tools of destruction you needed were on the map…

Can we please stop with this particular brand of nonsense?

If you define arena shooters simply based on having weapons on map you must include EVERY shooter with a multiplayer component before loadouts were used. But you can’t, arena shooters are defined by a particular style of gameplay, of level design, and of sandbox balance that are DISTINCT from the general pattern of older shooters that games like UNREAL TOURNAMENT simply borrowed from in order to create a relatable game that still accomplished new things. IE. It borrowed weapons on map and equal spawns because they were ubiquitous to the shooter format at the time!

IT IS NOT SPECIAL. IT IS NOT SOMETHING WORTH PRESERVING. It is just a way the arena genre setup it’s other aspects, and that genre did not nor ever did include Halo. Halo approached the balanced setup of a progressive weapon system and warped that into a binary relationship between power weapons and the rest. Above all else this BROKE arena gameplay by downplaying the individuals ability to use whatever tool they prefer (shock rifle, flak cannon, it’s all roughly the same except where it comes to execution) and emphasized situational weapon selection (ex. Shotgun V. Sniper).

Halo 4 is thus NOT IN ANY WAY an unnatural Halo for choosing to favor a model of weapon selection that is IN KEEPING with the situational gameplay THE FRANCHISE HAS ALWAYS HAD (but never had the right weapon spawning system to manage to effectively.)

20

> > Halo is an Arena style first person shooter, similar to the Quakes and unreal tournaments of its time, where each individual player started with the same weapons, health, speed, ect… And all the tools of destruction you needed were on the map…
>
> Can we please stop with this particular brand of nonsense?
>
> If you define arena shooters simply based on having weapons on map you must include EVERY shooter with a multiplayer component before loadouts were used. But you can’t, arena shooters are defined by a particular style of gameplay, of level design, and of sandbox balance that are DISTINCT from the general pattern of older shooters that games like UNREAL TOURNAMENT simply borrowed from in order to create a relatable game that still accomplished new things. IE. It borrowed weapons on map and equal spawns because they were ubiquitous to the shooter format at the time!
>
> IT IS NOT SPECIAL. IT IS NOT SOMETHING WORTH PRESERVING. It is just a way the arena genre setup it’s other aspects, and that genre did not nor ever did include Halo. Halo approached the balanced setup of a progressive weapon system and warped that into a binary relationship between power weapons and the rest. Above all else this BROKE arena gameplay by downplaying the individuals ability to use whatever tool they prefer (shock rifle, flak cannon, it’s all roughly the same except where it comes to execution) and emphasized situational weapon selection (ex. Shotgun V. Sniper).
>
> Halo 4 is thus NOT IN ANY WAY an unnatural Halo for choosing to favor a model of weapon selection that is IN KEEPING with the situational gameplay THE FRANCHISE HAS ALWAYS HAD (but never had the right weapon spawning system to manage to effectively.)

… You don’t know what arena is do you? What you describe as broken arena more or less only relates to halo 4