The Best solution to Sprint (With Supports)

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

Sprint: The community is obviously split over whether or not Sprint should be in Halo 5. However, 343i seems fixed on keeping Sprint and at the end of the day they make all content decisions for the Halo franchise. Having said that, 343i will still need to make some changes if they are going to make Sprint appealing to the majority of the Halo community. Having read through the masses of sprint related forums, the two main complaints players have with Sprint is that it stretches maps and causes cat and mouse chases between Spartans. There really isn’t any way to prevent maps from being dilated (at least not without removing Sprint), however, cat and mouse chases can still be avoided with the right balances. A plausible option would be to implement a mechanic that slows down players as their shields deplete. For example, if a player’s shields were full they would be able to sprint at full speed, however, if their shields were at 50% they would only sprint at half-speed and if the player had no shields they wouldn’t be able to sprint at all. Spartan Abilities, such as Slide, could still be used so long as the player retained some shield health, however, the range of the Spartan Ability would be proportional to the amount of shield health the player currently had. This change should make Sprint a viable addition to Halo 5.

Note that all 343i’s balances will be removed with the exception of the balance allowing players to knock someone out of sprint within the first second.

UPDATE: Why these solutions should be implemented

Map dilation: It is undeniable that sprint will dilate Halo 5’s multiplayer maps. However, with my sprint system implemented map dilation will be less intense. The reason maps are so stretched currently is because players can achieve a maximum sprint whenever they want. However, if my system were to be implemented players would be restricted from sprinting at max speed continually and therefore maps could be reverted back to an acceptable size.

Over-Nerfing: Many people are worried that sprint will be nerfed to oblivion and that its function will therefore be impeded, breaking the mechanics of the game. However, this is not an issue with my solution. In fact the way it functions is quite simple. For example, if I have full health and begin to sprint I will sprint at full velocity. Then say I am shot by a DMR. One shot would take around 25% of my shields. Now I will only sprint at 75%. However, say my opponent is killed and I continue to sprint. As my shields recharge I will begin to sprint faster.

Strategy: Many people dislike sprint because it involves no strategy, meaning players can simply run and gun without any consequences. My system prevents that too. For example, if I am shot by a Battle Rifle I will sprint significantly slower, allowing my opponent to finish me off easily if I continue to sprint. In order to prevent such an occurrence I would have to be more cautious when sprinting.

Lack of Gun Play: Many people complain that sprint takes away from gun play because your gun is lowered while sprinting. However, say I was hiding behind cover with low shields. If I tried to sprint away I would be too slow and would surely be killed. However, if I “walked” out and actually engaged my opponent I would have a better chance or surviving. This would encourage more gun play and more strategy (reinforcing my previous point).

Canon: Many people have claimed that Spartans can run super fast so why can’t they sprint. Its a bad argument, but it’s a point nevertheless. However, like 343i current (flawed) system, sprinting would still be tied to a player’s shields. Thus canonically my system would be applicable as well.

#2

h4 had it right already with being slowed down while being shot imo, no need to get things overcomplicated
…this combined with the nerfs in h5 and I’ll be fine

#3

Before the sprint discussion devolves into what every anti-Sprint threads become, I want to highlight the basis of your topic: tying distance of abilities/speed of sprint to shields would lead to more randomized play, offering the player less predictable movement. In the end, it ends up just as uneven as AAs did in reach, and introduces even more balancing issues/convoluted gameplay.

The way sprint exists, post beta, will remain to be seen (after testing, they should at least provide some footage to show the new vs old build). It has been tweaked far more from reach and 4 than many thought, and some even flipped on their position after seeing the implementation.

It’s good to theorize methods to reduce these arguments from frequently filling to forum, but the example you used might propose more negative feedback overall. To many, it is binary - sprint or not sprint. for most on the no side, any attempt to balance will yield to the idea that is should just go away. But at least you’re thinking objectively. Kudos, sir!

#4

> 2533274820441404;2:
> h4 had it right already with being slowed down while being shot imo, no need to get things overcomplicated
> …this combined with the nerfs in h5 and I’ll be fine

But what about the stretched out maps like bigshippp. Lol I actualy hate that argument. The perfect sized halo 5 map being considered big compared halo 2 is common sense not a problem. They are two different games.

#5

> 2535458386964330;3:
> Before the sprint discussion devolves into what every anti-Sprint threads become, I want to highlight the basis of your topic: tying distance of abilities/speed of sprint to shields would lead to more randomized play, offering the player less predictable movement. In the end, it ends up just as uneven as AAs did in reach, and introduces even more balancing issues/convoluted gameplay.

Not saying your wrong but what do you mean randomized play. It seems pretty simple to me. Full health = full sprint. 80% health = 80% sprint etc. Could I get some clarification on your point.

#6

> 2533274922858087;5:
> > 2535458386964330;3:
> > Before the sprint discussion devolves into what every anti-Sprint threads become, I want to highlight the basis of your topic: tying distance of abilities/speed of sprint to shields would lead to more randomized play, offering the player less predictable movement. In the end, it ends up just as uneven as AAs did in reach, and introduces even more balancing issues/convoluted gameplay.
>
>
> Not saying your wrong but what do you mean randomized play. It seems pretty simple to me. Full health = full sprint. 80% health = 80% sprint etc. Could I get some clarification on your point.

Sure thing - the percentage of speed, while on paper seems clear cut, in game would be inconsistent for the player. Unless the player has experience in monitoring the precise amount of shields at a given time (meaning the would force a % counter somewhere on the hud), the player would not reliably be able to use the feature. This can come into play in battle, to stop running away (which is the only real reason behind any additoon nerfing) but also in strafing. For instance, nerfing the Thruster distance would not allow the player to gauge how far from a blast radius or line of sight under fire.

Like I said it is good in theory. And certainly possible to implement. It just forces the player to overly rely on being out of sight (thus more camper play), or not use the abilities at all (since that is the only way the player can be certain they will have the same movement at all times).

It creates a headache for the player to manage all of those things during battle, and while it would add to the skill gap, it would also hinder the enjoyment of the game for those learning how to effectively use the new features (by putting players on less even footing at any given time). This basically promotes the first shot/sight player over the defensive player.

#7

> 2535458386964330;6:
> > 2533274922858087;5:
> > > 2535458386964330;3:
> > > Before the sprint discussion devolves into what every anti-Sprint threads become, I want to highlight the basis of your topic: tying distance of abilities/speed of sprint to shields would lead to more randomized play, offering the player less predictable movement. In the end, it ends up just as uneven as AAs did in reach, and introduces even more balancing issues/convoluted gameplay.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not saying your wrong but what do you mean randomized play. It seems pretty simple to me. Full health = full sprint. 80% health = 80% sprint etc. Could I get some clarification on your point.
>
>
> Sure thing - the percentage of speed, while on paper seems clear cut, in game would be inconsistent for the player. Unless the player has experience in monitoring the precise amount of shields at a given time (meaning the would force a % counter somewhere on the hud), the player would not reliably be able to use the feature. This can come into play in battle, to stop running away (which is the only real reason behind any additoon nerfing) but also in strafing. For instance, nerfing the Thruster distance would not allow the player to gauge how far from a blast radius or line of sight under fire.
>
> Like I said it is good in theory. And certainly possible to implement. It just forces the player to overly rely on being out of sight (thus more camper play), or not use the abilities at all (since that is the only way the player can be certain they will have the same movement at all times).
>
> It creates a headache for the player to manage all of those things during battle, and while it would add to the skill gap, it would also hinder the enjoyment of the game for those learning how to effectively use the new features (by putting players on less even footing at any given time). This basically promotes the first shot/sight player over the defensive player.

I see your point but the only Spartan Abilities currently tied to sprint are slide and spartan charge. Thrusters are separate.

#8

The problem with trying to discourage the use if sprint is that maps are entirely designed around using sprint. See where that gets messy?

#9

I see, I misread that portion (hard to review again when on my phone). That would simplify the problem, although slide is related to the full sprint velocity, so it might not be as viable in that case. Until we have the whole sandbox available and maps that promote slide at all (other than for cover, think shotgun vs sword), we won’t know how useful it would be. As it stands, with the second ramp up and current nerfs, chases are still fewer in frequency to H 4/reach. So I don’t see your points making as big of an impact ad my initial post would suggest (due to the thrusters - I know someone brought up doing that in another post, though).

#10

> 2533274929479318;8:
> The problem with trying to discourage the use if sprint is that maps are entirely designed around using sprint. See where that gets messy?

See, this is still baffling though. Maps are not designed with players in mind sprinting the entire match. That wouldn’t even be close to a logical as -Yoink!- of the beta maps, and even with added mechanics in mind, only certain parts of the map are used to emphasize certain abilities. Clamber being the least “forced” due to crouch jumping w/ gp (although clunky in the beta) still existing.

Instead of arguing that maps are scaled for sprint, it should be noted that maps are design around theobility of the players. Not for the purpose of traversing the map only with those mechanics.

#11

> 2535458386964330;10:
> > 2533274929479318;8:
> > The problem with trying to discourage the use if sprint is that maps are entirely designed around using sprint. See where that gets messy?
>
>
>
>
> See, this is still baffling though. Maps are not designed with players in mind sprinting the entire match. That wouldn’t even be close to a logical as -Yoink!- of the beta maps, and even with added mechanics in mind, only certain parts of the map are used to emphasize certain abilities. Clamber being the least “forced” due to crouch jumping w/ gp (although clunky in the beta) still existing.
>
> Instead of arguing that maps are scaled for sprint, it should be noted that maps are design around theobility of the players. Not for the purpose of traversing the map only with those mechanics.

Whether or not maps were designed around sprint being used all the time is irrelevant, the fact that map need to be designed around it at all means sprint is supposed to be an integral part of the game. It’s meant to be the games primary mode of travel around the map, which means bigger maps as it’s too chaotic on smaller maps, 343 has even admitted to the fact that maps are being designed around sprint.

now again, trying to change sprints role of the primary travel ability, when the game is based around that role, makes absolutely no sense, and since you can’t shrink maps, the only option is to remove it.

#12

> 2533274922858087;1:
> Having read through the masses of sprint related forums, the two main complaints players have with Sprint is that it stretches maps and causes cat and mouse chases between Spartans.

I really wish those were the only problems. In addition to the issues you mentioned, sprint also causes the following:

  • Forces players to lower their weapon (my personal most hated sprint effect)
  • Affects the spawn system
  • Significantly decreases the base movement speed
  • Affects the predictability of players’ actionsAs you can see, the only thing that can solve those problems is the removal of sprint. You can’t balance it to work with Halo, it’s either in or out.
#13

> 2533274973373704;12:
> > 2533274922858087;1:
> > Having read through the masses of sprint related forums, the two main complaints players have with Sprint is that it stretches maps and causes cat and mouse chases between Spartans.
>
>
>
> I really wish those were the only problems. In addition to the issues you mentioned, sprint also causes the following:
> - Forces players to lower their weapon (my personal most hated sprint effect)
> - Affects the spawn system
> - Significantly decreases the base movement speed
> - Affects the predictability of players’ actions
> As you can see, the only thing that can solve those problems is the removal of sprint. You can’t balance it to work with Halo, it’s either in or out.

By halo you mean the games bungie created without sprint in mind. Which isnt what we’re getting . If they want it to work in their halo and they succeed that does not change the fact that it would not work in bungies halo. You are not getting a classic halo. So you do not know if it can work in THIS halo because they are clearly not the same. What’s so hard to grasp? Now with that said it doesn’t mean that you will enjoy “this” halo but it doesn’t make it “bad”. 343 is not trying to give us back our halo with “minor” changes. They have been very vocal that they have a vision and that’s what they are going for.

#14

> 2533274929479318;11:
> > 2535458386964330;10:
> > > 2533274929479318;8:
> > > The problem with trying to discourage the use if sprint is that maps are entirely designed around using sprint. See where that gets messy?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > See, this is still baffling though. Maps are not designed with players in mind sprinting the entire match. That wouldn’t even be close to a logical as -Yoink!- of the beta maps, and even with added mechanics in mind, only certain parts of the map are used to emphasize certain abilities. Clamber being the least “forced” due to crouch jumping w/ gp (although clunky in the beta) still existing.
> >
> > Instead of arguing that maps are scaled for sprint, it should be noted that maps are design around theobility of the players. Not for the purpose of traversing the map only with those mechanics.
>
>
> Whether or not maps were designed around sprint being used all the time is irrelevant, the fact that map need to be designed around it at all means sprint is supposed to be an integral part of the game. It’s meant to be the games primary mode of travel around the map, which means bigger maps as it’s too chaotic on smaller maps, 343 has even admitted to the fact that maps are being designed around sprint.
>
> now again, trying to change sprints role of the primary travel ability, when the game is based around that role, makes absolutely no sense, and since you can’t shrink maps, the only option is to remove it.

That’s the point I just countered. Sprint is not the primary mode of travel for the player- if it was, you most certainly would be able to shoot. It is a means for traversal, as well as the other SAs. Maps are being designed with player mobility in mind. Not just sprint.

Regardless of that, there is nothing showing the map design being “stretched”. They scale maps differently for the engine or mechanics. Stretching implies that maps change from some prjor, determined stated. They might be molded from a different build based on tweaks to the engine, but after release, the maps do not change. They don’t build a Halo 2 or 3 or ce map, and then stretch it to fit their vision. Even with Truth, the art and design team make the general layout, but they do not state that Truth IS Midship. It is a reimagining of the other, not even a full remake.

Now, Halo 2 and 3 had remakes. They did stretch maps. And they did not have sprint. Go ahead, try whatever blood gulch or Zanzibar or longest variant you want. They are far from identical. Warlock is another example, but there’s not much to shift a cylinder with 2 levels. But it’s far bigger than Wizard

#15

> 2535458386964330;14:
> > 2533274929479318;11:
> > > 2535458386964330;10:
> > > > 2533274929479318;8:
> > > > The problem with trying to discourage the use if sprint is that maps are entirely designed around using sprint. See where that gets messy?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > See, this is still baffling though. Maps are not designed with players in mind sprinting the entire match. That wouldn’t even be close to a logical as -Yoink!- of the beta maps, and even with added mechanics in mind, only certain parts of the map are used to emphasize certain abilities. Clamber being the least “forced” due to crouch jumping w/ gp (although clunky in the beta) still existing.
> > >
> > > Instead of arguing that maps are scaled for sprint, it should be noted that maps are design around theobility of the players. Not for the purpose of traversing the map only with those mechanics.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether or not maps were designed around sprint being used all the time is irrelevant, the fact that map need to be designed around it at all means sprint is supposed to be an integral part of the game. It’s meant to be the games primary mode of travel around the map, which means bigger maps as it’s too chaotic on smaller maps, 343 has even admitted to the fact that maps are being designed around sprint.
> >
> > now again, trying to change sprints role of the primary travel ability, when the game is based around that role, makes absolutely no sense, and since you can’t shrink maps, the only option is to remove it.
>
>
>
>
> That’s the point I just countered. Sprint is not the primary mode of travel for the player- if it was, you most certainly would be able to shoot. It is a means for traversal, as well as the other SAs. Maps are being designed with player mobility in mind. Not just sprint.
>
> Regardless of that, there is nothing showing the map design being “stretched”. They scale maps differently for the engine or mechanics. Stretching implies that maps change from some prjor, determined stated. They might be molded from a different build based on tweaks to the engine, but after release, the maps do not change. They don’t build a Halo 2 or 3 or ce map, and then stretch it to fit their vision. Even with Truth, the art and design team make the general layout, but they do not state that Truth IS Midship. It is a reimagining of the other, not even a full remake.
>
> Now, Halo 2 and 3 had remakes. They did stretch maps. And they did not have sprint. Go ahead, try whatever blood gulch or Zanzibar or longest variant you want. They are far from identical. Warlock is another example, but there’s not much to shift a cylinder with 2 levels. But it’s far bigger than Wizard

Ok, devs have said themselves that they stretched maps because of sprint. what are you not getting about that, and many of the maps are the same size or smaller in Avalanches and valhallas case, midship stays the exact same size in halo 2 to 3, hell btb maps aren’t being criticized here it’s 4v4 maps.

The maps being stretched to accommodate sprint means that it is intended to be the main source of travel, it is the most effective ability to do so as well. The biggest problem is that it’s the Main travel mechanic and yet it weakens the player by forcing them to put their gun down, and having the player keep up their gun would just be redundant. You can’t encourage not using a mechanic that meant to be used to get around the map as fast as possible most of the time, clamber or thruster don’t do the job sprint does nearly as well.

now how does this size with sprint impact the game? Well, it doesn’t, in the speed sense at least. The game is no faster than it would be with smaller maps and a fast base speed. Look at halo ce, it is by far the fastest halo game to date, h5 doesn’t come close because sprint neither speeds up the game, nor does it encourage offensive play because the players aren’t getting there any faster and are weaker because they can’t shoot, encouraging defensive play on a grand scale since everyone has it. It may not happen every time, but it is allowed and encouraged by sprinting, and it slows down the game. I mean seriously, h5 is not fast, neither is reach and 4, and they all had sprint(h3 was slow because of the slow base speed and slow kill times, which where sped up in mlg). It would have bursts of speed, but would go back to being slow again. Hell, I’ve had games with full teams that ended by time running out, games in halo ce could last as little as 3 minutes.

sprint is an illusion of speed that the exact opposite of speeding up the game. It adds no depth, and is inflexible.

#16

UPDATE: I have added a segment in the main post outlying why these solutions are better than any other.

#17

Bump

#18

> 2533274835305187;4:
> > 2533274820441404;2:
> > h4 had it right already with being slowed down while being shot imo, no need to get things overcomplicated
> > …this combined with the nerfs in h5 and I’ll be fine
>
>
>
> But what about the stretched out maps like bigshippp. Lol I actualy hate that argument. The perfect sized halo 5 map being considered big compared halo 2 is common sense not a problem. They are two different games.

If a simple map like midship is being contorted and butchered for the sake of new gameplay mechanics, then there is a HUGE problem. Sequels serves as expansions and successors, not an entirely new experience.

#19

bump

#20

> 2533274822366750;18:
> > 2533274835305187;4:
> > > 2533274820441404;2:
> > > h4 had it right already with being slowed down while being shot imo, no need to get things overcomplicated
> > > …this combined with the nerfs in h5 and I’ll be fine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > But what about the stretched out maps like bigshippp. Lol I actualy hate that argument. The perfect sized halo 5 map being considered big compared halo 2 is common sense not a problem. They are two different games.
>
>
> If a simple map like midship is being contorted and butchered for the sake of new gameplay mechanics, then there is a HUGE problem. Sequels serves as expansions and successors, not an entirely new experience.

They dint recreate midship and stretched it out they created a map based on midship but the map is not midship. Problem is it is blunt to be a new experience when the ppl creating the game changes. God I have no excuse for bungie and reach other than they were leaving and needed a test subject for Destiny