The Auto's vs Precision Balance.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I replied in another thread and decided to make my own. Here it is.

Lightning Struck! I have the solution.

There isn’t a problem with the AR. The H4 version in pretty spot on. Other auto’s do need some fine tuning. However, the issue is with what happens if you press the Zoom. It goes into useless binocular mode. Its a complete waste. I was thinking on this today how can you make auto’s useful without adding a Zoom and still keep ADS(Iron Sights) out of Halo, but still use your Zoom button.

It came to me when I was thinking on a post I read earlier. It was about going into and firing from cover like Gears of War. Obviously the poster was immediately attacked by Halo Elitists about how it would destroy multiplayer and its not Halo, blah, blah blah. Anyway I couldn’t get these two thoughts out of my head. Makeing Zoom button useful and the advantages of going into cover. Meanwhile thinking about all things Halo. Then Blam! It hit me Halo already has the solution and has had it since Halo 3! There is a game mechanic that can utilize the Zoom button while using Auto’s and still not need to be buffed by adding headshot capabilities. Its so obvious now that is see it. 3RD PERSON. Just like picking up a Heavy Turret from halo 3, even though 3rd person has been in Halo since CE with vehicles I use H3 because its the first time 3rd is used with a gun you carry.

Its killing two birds with one stone! Retaining usefulness of all your buttons while adding an enter into cover feature without locking you against the wall. It fits into everything that is already in Halo. If you think Being able to check around corners over powers Zoomed precision aiming that can be fixed by making the Auto Bloom bigger while in 3rd person, let’s say the AR shoots like the Suppressor while in 3rd person. Also you couldn’t Sprint , toss grenades, or melee either, you could only do what you can in Zoom. Walk, Crouch, Jump and Shoot. This can also be applied to the shotgun, sword and hammer.

Thanks for the inspiration. Blam!

I also ran this idea by some CoD players at work that don’t even like halo and they liked the idea. Ha ha they can never have it! Unless they Join us!

Here’s some of my cliff notes so you don’t have to read so much.

This just exchanges a useless element for a useful one. All without adjusting any kill time, weapon capabilities, or map integrity. If I had to classify Binocular mode I would say its a Recon aspect, its just about gathering intel, the same with third person turret carry.

If slow movement would help balance this feature so be it, but I think it won’t be necessary. As far as practicality I would use the 3rd person when I’m being pinned down by ranged attacks. being able to peek without sticking my whole body out would balance to out.

3rd person view would help you keep an eye on the ranged attackers while your in cover, they might be out of motion tracker range. It would also help create a little more stealth feel to players that like Invis or prefer to amush rather than run’n’gun.

The movement deficiency wouldn’t be necessary. The slow movement for turrets is to compensate for the firepower. With the Automatics since its a starting gun it should not impede movement. The restriction for this feature should be the same as zoom on percisions. Crouching, looking, walking, jumping, and shooting are ok. Sprinting, using AA’s (I use AA’s because we really don’t know what Spartan Abilities are), throwing grenades, and melee would pop you back. Now that I think about it having the 3rd person Zoom on the Flag and Oddball might be handy too.

This idea is straight out of Halo not other shooters I can’t think of any that have it. There’s been 3rd person elements in Halo since CE. I don’t think of Halo as an FPS in a little box, I think of it more of a Tiered Arena Shooter

Having 3rd person on automatic is needed to compensate for the restricted range and lack of head shot capability. Also there are very few stealth capabilities in the Halo multiplayer. Having the ability to peek around door ways and objects would help check if the coast is clear. So besides balancing ranged and precision it also balances play styles, run’n’gun vs stealth.

This isn’t about adding to the AR specifically. Its about any weapon that you can’t Zoom in and fire with added precision. Right now Precision weapons gain while pressing Zoom, any weapon with Binocular mode gains nothing. If it was balanced weapons like Pistol, DMR, BR, CC and Power weapons like Sniper would not be able to fire while scoped. A precision weapon still gets headshots even while not scoped. They GAIN ranged accuracy at the cost of peripheral vision.

The 3rd Person view grants Peripherals at the cost of Precision. So that weapons like the AR, Suppressor, Plasma Repeater and Power Weapons like the Shotgun can have a balanced GAIN instead of a useless Binocular Zoom.

The weapons work the way they are intended, yes, and 3rd person would not impact the CQC weapons directly but it would alter the how and when you use them.

I wouldn’t say CQC weapons are the only ones that use radar and audio for a gain I’ve run across campers with rocket launchers and other weapons that have Zoom. Everyone in the radar and audio range gets those benefits. Heck we could even lose radar when popping to 3rd person too, proving even further that the 3rd person view could be perfectly balanced against precision Zoom, But remember Precision weapons will always retain a benefit CQC can never have and that’s being able to get kills from a SAFE distance. No matter the gain its always better to be somewhere your enemy can’t shoot at you.

I don’t see a problem with encouraging camping, doesn’t having a precision Zoom encourage shooting at a safe distance? I would think that having the 3rd person view might actually encourage the campers to move around the map more because it would give them an element of safety to move from a cover area to a cover area. So instead of sitting in one spot and calling them Campers they would move and we call them Creepers

I work with 2 people that I know of that are deaf in one ear. They are both gamers. Their main issue with playing shooters, which they enjoy, is that they cannot use surround sound to help track enemy footsteps of incoming fire. This leaves them at a slight disadvantage. However consider completely hearing impaired people’s disadvantage. The 3rd person replacing the Zoom on CQC weapons could really benefit these people. Halo being Xbox’s Flagship game could really benefit by being more accessible. Halo should be a game for everybody. Halo is still an FPS. Its always had 3rd person elements. If they would also add custom controller options , that could help people with slight hand movement impairments and you’d have a game to draw a group to the Xbox for its Accessibility. These people could then play more competitively because the playing field for them would be more balanced

2

Awful idea. You are just dead set at changing Halo as much as possible.

3

No, But I do think this is a good match of already in game mechanics. The ability is to preform this is already in the game I’m only limited when there is no turret on a particular map. Nothing is stopping me from having an AR and picking up an dropping the turret at each corner then using my AR in combat.

4

Yea but with the turret you move very slowly. No way that would be practical in real gameplay. I don’t care if they add that in single player but there is zero point for that in multiplayer. All it does is give players reasons to use non skill based guns. Halo 5 needs a large learning curve. Something that has decreased with every game made. Catering to casual players caused Halo 4 to lose most of its population in less than a year. We haven’t had a Halo game that catered to competitive players since CE with Halo 2 doing a decent job at being competitive as well. Keep adding unneeded things to Halo and there won’t be a Halo to buy in 10 years.

5

This may be a fairly good idea on paper, but it may not translate well in Gameplay.

What they really need to do is find a good balance between Precision weapons and automatic weapons. Automatic weapons should obviously have a place in the sandbox, and shouldn’t be completely nerfed in favor of making precision weapons king at all ranges.

6

And for the Elitists they could but in the option for toggle 3rd person on / off. So I could be in social and not ranked.

7

> And for the Elitists they could but in the option for toggle 3rd person on / off. So I could be in social and not ranked.

That’s not really fixing the issue as a whole then is it? Fixing a competitive problem with a social solution doesn’t seem like it’s accomplishing anything.

And for future posts you might not want to say that COD players thought the idea sounded good because I don’t think that does a whole lot to make your idea look like it’d be good for Halo. Personally I have no problem if they like it or not but that just means it’s irrelevant to me. It has no positive effect on your post.

As to your actual idea…um… how would this be fixing the problem? I must be missing something here because I have absolutely no idea what this is actually fixing.

The way I see it the major problem regarding the balance between the three primary rifle types is that the medium and long range rifles can achieve faster kill times through head shots while the automatics have no such opportunity in any form.

Sorry for my ignorance but could you tell me the specific problem this would be solving and how exactly it solves it?

8

The easiest solution would be just to do what CE did. Or something similar. Give the AR a large Mag capacity (60 mag, higher ROF). Give the Plasma Rifle superior accuracy, chunky projectile hit boxes, perks like bonus shied damage, plasma stun and a head shot multiplier.

I would actually give the AR the headshot multiplier not the Plasma rifle. But yeah, easy solution. Doesn’t require anything fancy.

9

> immediately attacked by Halo Elitists about how it would destroy multiplayer and its not Halo, blah, blah blah.

You can’t dismiss other people’s arguments as “blah blah blah” simply because they disagree with you. The thing is, they made sound and logical arguments whereas you buried your head in the sand because you refused to acknowledge your ideas simply aren’t that great.

> I also ran this idea by some CoD players at work that don’t even like halo and they liked the idea. Ha ha they can never have it!

There’s your problem, you were asking people for advice about Halo when they don’t even play it. A useless perspective.

Overall, no. Halo is a first person shooter and doesn’t need an option to be in third person. It would be redundant and would do little to help the issues you’ve described in this thread regarding zoom. Not to mention the fact that the AR doesn’t need a zoom or a scope as it is intended for close range. Adding such a feature would make the AR overpowered as it would become a medium range weapon, thus filling the BR’s niche as well as it’s own.

10

Since I don’t see the need for third person when operating detached turrets in the first place, my vote is no.

There is a practical reason for third person for vehicles (though I think it should be toggle-able . . . there are a number of ideas on here for a practical way of implementing 1st-person for vehicle passengers, gunners, and even drivers of some types of vehicles . . . but that’s off-topic). Those reasons do not extend to hand-held weapons.

If I wish to play a 3rd-person shooter, GoW exists. I personally do not want to blend Halo and GoW.

11

> There’s your problem, you were asking people for advice about Halo when they don’t even play it. A useless perspective.
>
> Overall, no. Halo is a first person shooter and doesn’t need an option to be in third person.

I didn’t ask their advice I asked if they liked the idea and thought it was useful. Halo 3rd person elements are in it already. This just exchanges a useless element for a useful one. All without adjusting any kill time, weapon capabilities, or map integrity. If I had to classify Binocular mode I would say its a Recon aspect, its just about gathering intel, the same with third person turret carry.

12

> <mark>Yea but with the turret you move very slowly. No way that would be practical in real gameplay.</mark> I don’t care if they add that in single player but there is zero point for that in multiplayer. All it does is give players reasons to use non skill based guns. <mark>Halo 5 needs a large learning curve</mark>. Something that has decreased with every game made. <mark>Catering to casual players</mark> caused Halo 4 to lose most of its population in less than a year. We haven’t had a Halo game that catered to competitive players since CE with Halo 2 doing a decent job at being competitive as well. Keep adding unneeded things to Halo and there won’t be a Halo to buy in 10 years.

If slow movement would help balance this feature so be it, but I think it won’t be necessary. As far as practicality I would use the 3rd person when I’m being pinned down by ranged attacks. being able to peek without sticking my whole body out would balance to out.

Having a large learning curve. This is partly the reason for the loss in popularity. I agree that to compete on the same level in Arena you do actually have to play to win. But the whole game can’t be catered to the Ranged Competitive Bumper Jumpers that think the only way to enjoy a game is to crush everybody else by Map control and spawn killing. Not that you use Bumper Jumper I won’t know.

I’m sure you’ve heard “you can’t make everybody happy”. If you cater to one group over another you lose an audience. 343i needs to at least try to bring useful and fun elements to the less Competitive Casual crowd.

13

> I replied in another thread and decided to make my own. Here it is.
>
> Lightning Struck! I have the solution.
>
> There isn’t a problem with the AR. The H4 version in pretty spot on. Other auto’s do need some fine tuning. However, the issue is with what happens if you press the Zoom. It goes into useless binocular mode. Its a complete waste. I was thinking on this today how can you make auto’s useful without adding a Zoom and still keep ADS(Iron Sights) out of Halo, but still use your Zoom button.
>
> It came to me when I was thinking on a post I read earlier. It was about going into and firing from cover like Gears of War. Obviously the poster was immediately attacked by Halo Elitists about how it would destroy multiplayer and its not Halo, blah, blah blah. Anyway I couldn’t get these two thoughts out of my head. Makeing Zoom button useful and the advantages of going into cover. Meanwhile thinking about all things Halo. Then Blam! It hit me Halo already has the solution and has had it since Halo 3! There is a game mechanic that can utilize the Zoom button while using Auto’s and still not need to be buffed by adding headshot capabilities. Its so obvious now that is see it. 3RD PERSON. Just like picking up a Heavy Turret from halo 3, even though 3rd person has been in Halo since CE with vehicles I use H3 because its the first time 3rd is used with a gun you carry.
>
> Its killing two birds with one stone! Retaining usefulness of all your buttons while adding an enter into cover feature without locking you against the wall. It fits into everything that is already in Halo. If you think Being able to check around corners over powers Zoomed precision aiming that can be fixed by making the Auto Bloom bigger while in 3rd person, let’s say the AR shoots like the Suppressor while in 3rd person. Also you couldn’t Sprint either, you could only do what you can in Zoom. Walk, Crouch, Jump and Shoot. This can also be applied to the shotgun, sword and hammer.
>
> Thanks for the inspiration. Blam!
>
> I also ran this idea by some CoD players at work that don’t even like halo and they liked the idea. Ha ha they can never have it!

I actually do use the binocular mode at times, no joke. I do agree with you that the Ar in Halo 4 was done right (after the patch) I am not an AR hater. It has it’s role and in H4 they got that right (one of the only things they did get right really, lol) I do not want ADS in halo and Spartans don’t need ADS because of there suit abilities (all the info is in the books and stuff)

As of now, I don’t think anything needs to be done with the AR

14

> If slow movement would help balance this feature so be it, but I think it won’t be necessary. As far as practicality I would use the 3rd person when I’m being pinned down by ranged attacks. being able to peek without sticking my whole body out would balance to out.
>
> <mark>Having a large learning curve. This is partly the reason for the loss in popularity. I agree that to compete on the same level in Arena you do actually have to play to win. But the whole game can’t be catered to the Ranged Competitive Bumper Jumpers that think the only way to enjoy a game is to crush everybody else by Map control and spawn killing. Not that you use Bumper Jumper I won’t know.</mark>
>
> I’m sure you’ve heard “you can’t make everybody happy”. If you cater to one group over another you lose an audience. 343i needs to at least try to bring useful and fun elements to the less Competitive Casual crowd.

We have explained this to you and you refuse to acknowledge it. Competitiveness is not the reason for a decrease in population, but the fundamental core issues of Reach/4 that make the games infuriating to play for most of the population. Hence the massive population drop months after release.

Here goes Battle again on changing Halo into a gimmicky mess.

Autos should have a place and they do. The current balance between autos and precision is that autos are dumb-fire and you just have to pull the trigger to hit someone with less aim involved in exchanged for longer kill times vs precision when aimed toward the head. Precisions have bonuses headshot damage and enhanced range in exchange for having to aim to the head for maximum effectiveness. Having an auto excel at a range that a precision ruins balance. That means, Battle we are gonna have posts like this complaining to balance Precisions over Autos because they are suddenly beating them at ranges they were never supposed to.

Posts like these simply encite flame wars. A realistic solution is to tone down aim assist and increase the movement speed.

15

> > There’s your problem, you were asking people for advice about Halo when they don’t even play it. A useless perspective.
> >
> > Overall, no. Halo is a first person shooter and doesn’t need an option to be in third person.
>
> I didn’t ask their advice I asked if they liked the idea and thought it was useful. Halo 3rd person elements are in it already. This just exchanges a useless element for a useful one. All without adjusting any kill time, weapon capabilities, or map integrity. If I had to classify Binocular mode I would say its a Recon aspect, its just about gathering intel, the same with third person turret carry.

Their opinions on ideas for Halo are useless if they don’t play it. 3rd person elements are used when needed, for example, to compensate for the restricted movement when carrying a heavy weapon or to assist in piloting and driving vehicles. There’s no point in having it for regular weapons. 3rd person mode with an AR would be equally useless as the binoculars.

16

> Having a large learning curve. This is partly the reason for the loss in popularity.

Nope.

There are far more complicated games with a steep high learning curve out there drawing a much wider audience than Halo. You’re also forgetting that i343 admitted to making the game easier for newcomers and players who aren’t good. Not much of a learning curve.

> I agree that to compete on the same level in Arena you do actually have to play to win. But the whole game can’t be catered to the Ranged Competitive Bumper Jumpers that think the only way to enjoy a game is to crush everybody else by Map control and spawn killing. Not that you use Bumper Jumper I won’t know.

And in other game modes you shouldn’t have to really compete to win? Is that how they should make the game? Because that’s how Halo 4 more or less is from time to time.

> I’m sure you’ve heard “you can’t make everybody happy”. If you cater to one group over another you lose an audience. <mark>343i needs to at least try to bring useful and fun elements to the less Competitive Casual crowd.</mark>

Okay, here’s what you totally misunderstand about the “competitive” audience and the “casual” audience.

You think that the more competitive audience wants a certain type of mechanics and features, while you think the more casual crowd wants another set of mechanics that you label as “fun”.

That’s false on so many levels.

The more casual crowd is not in possesion of some ultimate list of mechanics and features they require to find the game “fun”. Then the more competitive crowd is not in possesion of another list of banned features and another set of features they’d like. You’re thinking that the casuals are oranges and that competitives are apples.

Every single competitive player started out as a casual player. You don’t magically start as either or, you start as a casual and then move on to competitive, or you stay a casual. There’s no magic barrier you cross where you change opinion on what’s fun in a game. Being casual doesn’t mean that you automatically love exaggerated explosions, custom loadouts and gimmicks.

Some casuals have the same wants and wishes as some competitives, and the other way around.

And as someone already asked but you haven’t answered, what problem does this idea of yours fix? You didn’t specify a problem in the first place.

17

The only way to balance the two is to put more limits on the precision weapons and/or give the automatics more advantages. This could be done by adding damage to autos, more ammo for autos, etc. Since loadouts are truly gone and there will be AR start for most gametypes then you can have a longer spawn time for precision weapons on the map as well.

18

ADS in the CoD sense doesn’t needed to be in halo, but I don’t see why autos can’t utilize the aim feature to boost accuracy at the cost of movement.

19

> ADS in the CoD sense doesn’t needed to be in halo, but I don’t see why autos can’t utilize the aim feature to boost accuracy at the cost of movement.

The zoom might be a good idea in theory, but think about it. The movement deficiency could be horrendous and you would be getting 4 shot consistently, which starts up a whole different balance issue and argument.

20

> > ADS in the CoD sense doesn’t needed to be in halo, but I don’t see why autos can’t utilize the aim feature to boost accuracy at the cost of movement.
>
> The zoom might be a good idea in theory, but think about it. The movement deficiency could be horrendous and you would be getting 4 shot consistently, which starts up a whole different balance issue and argument.

Then you choose not to use it.

It wouldn’t be to make the autos function in close ranges, but to give them some ability to harry opponents at range.