The Assault Rifle Feels Pretty "Weak"

Man, I tried pulsing shots and I’ve always tried to keep the trigger on my target, but the AR just feels wrong. I feel like it takes far too many to kill a person when they’re unshielded (don’t know the exact number), and it takes around 20 shots in total to kill a person, but thats only if they’re hit with every bullet… the bloom on this thing is crazy, and even pulsing will cause a noticeable reticle increase. Punching twice takes nowhere near as long as that, and the DMR can kill people much faster than an AR pulsing shots at mid range AND spraying in close range, which is where the assault rifle is supposed to excel…

I feel like it’s an smg with half the bullets. Opinions on the matter? Should 343i address this?

edit - after quite a bit more AR usage i think another big issue is its reload speed, reloading occurring frequently as the AR needs over half of its clip to kill someone, and i think it feels a tad slow. also, i think its current potential damage output is fine, but i’d like to see the damage tables changed a bit, and make it like a reverse plasma rifle-> strong armored damage but weaker shield damage.

> Man, I tried pulsing shots and I’ve always tried to keep the trigger on my target, but the AR just feels wrong. I feel like it takes far too many to kill a person when they’re unshielded, and besides, it takes around 20 shots in total to kill a person, and thats only if they’re hit with every bullet. Punching twice takes nowhere near as long as that, and the DMR can kill people much faster than an AR pulsing shots AND spraying in close range, which is where the assault rifle is supposed to excel…
>
> I feel like it’s an smg with half the bullets. Opinions on the matter? Should 343i address this?

i completely agree. the AR could def use a slight buff (maybe +12% damage?). theres basically no reason to ever use the AR over things like the DMR or NR or Pistol in halo reach (unless you run out of those weapons and need to switch because its faster than reloading).

It takes 19 shots to kill someone with Reach AR.

In Team Classic it takes 17, much more faster kill time, so if you want a stronger AR, you should play Team Classic.

> It takes 19 shots to kill someone with Reach AR.
>
> In Team Classic it takes 17, much more faster kill time, so if you want a stronger AR, you should play Team Classic.

I do, but i’d really like to play normal maps with this kind of gameplay… i’ve nothing against the old maps, its just that nothing but forgeworld maps gets pretty old fast, and classic has very few players in it. also i miss armor abilities.

It doesn’t change the fact that the assault rifle is relatively weak and can’t kill more than one person without reloading in the “standard” playlists, nor that it does much less damage to unshielded flesh than you’d think a human weapon would.

Technically we’re still wearing Mjolnir ;]. I’m pretty sure the AR has a faster kill time than a DMR or NR if you avoid that dreaded unshielded headshot.

> it does much less damage to unshielded flesh than you’d think a human weapon would.

You be the judge.

Its questionable, compared to 3 its a pop gun.

Having said that it still does its job, and covers my escape at times.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3vDDUKyVgE
>
> You be the judge.

what does this prove, exactly? that the AR is good at point blank range? holy cow. lol

to the OP: try burst firing, it helps tremendously with kill times, range, and accuracy for the AR.

about how fast is considered “burst firing”? I’ve tried rapidly clicking the trigger and slightly faster than the dmr fires, dunno how fast to actually shoot.

> about how fast is considered “burst firing”? I’ve tried rapidly clicking the trigger and slightly faster than the dmr fires, dunno how fast to actually shoot.

1 or 2 bullets / trigger pull. more than that and you lose the tight spread needed for 100% accuracy over most distances. it def. takes some practice, thats for sure.

make a custom game with -bottomless clip- enabled. thats the best way to practice with it.

Yeah it just needs to be more accurate.

> Yeah it just needs to be more accurate.

a slight decrease in how fast the reticle grows would be welcome

> Technically we’re still wearing Mjolnir ;]. I’m pretty sure the AR has a faster kill time than a DMR or NR if you avoid that dreaded unshielded headshot.
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>
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> > it does much less damage to unshielded flesh than you’d think a human weapon would.

The problem with avoiding headshots when you don’t have a shield is, you’re at the mercy of the other player’s skill. People try to avoid me all the time while using the AR and I still pull that headshot off about 90 - 95% of the time. Besides, it is pretty much bullcrap that two melees is faster than unloading into a guy fully automatic at point blank. Besides, the AR is worthless at medium - long range due to it’s inaccuracy anyway, so the DMR would still be the main go to gun anyway.

true, i can’t count the times that i’ve been shooting at a guy with the AR and he’ll kill me first through punching me twice… or i’ll start shooting at a guy with the DMR first and he’ll kill me anyway…

besides fixing its accuracy i think they should tweak the balance table a bit and make it less effective against shields and more effective against armor.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3vDDUKyVgE
>
> You be the judge.

it shows that the assault rifle kills people just as fast if not slightly faster/slower… at point blank stationary targets. These situations never happen in multiplayer ever, as people will always be moving and firing at you as well. The AR loses its effectiveness drastically anywhere outside of short range, forcing you to “pulse” shots when other weapons don’t have to. The fact that it doesn’t excel at close quarters combat despite its short range is what i’m trying to bring up… its a terrible weapon.

Well then video has established 2 things.

  1. The AR isn’t weak compared to the other weapons, at least as far a kill times are concerned.
  2. If the AR didn’t have a precision-mechanic that caused it to loose said precision with sustained fire, the AR could kill from across most medium-sized maps with sustained fire.

A conjecture can be made this. The AR is a CQB weapon.
The AR is meant to kill without effort in close range. The AR is meant to kill with average effort in short range. The AR isn’t meant to kill unless it’s a completely weakened enemy at mid-range. And the AR certainly isn’t suppose to engage an enemy at long-range unless it is to pepper the player to de-scope them or attempt to luckily shred the health of a dying enemy.

Now the DMR, get this, is said to be a long-range weapon while the NR is a medium-ranged weapon. The ROF and damage per shot is different from both but they both kill in relatively the same times if a headshot is not made by the DMR. If the headshot is missed, the AR can skill kill quicker.

In previous Halos, the spread of the weapons, be it AR, Carbine or BR (or other) was not determined by ROF. And the farther the enemy, the more the spread effected a players shot. And even with perfect aim and/or leading, a player would still miss due to spread and be forced to fire more shots than necessary to gain a kill. Having to fire more shots than necessary slows the game down.
So bloom doesn’t slow kill times, at least compared to Halo3, it allows weapons to excel within their niches while maintaining better control of their ammo. All the while allowing weapons to be used but not very effectually outside of their niches.

I guarantee that if you were to do a 100 kill test between both the Halo3 AR and Reach AR across varying ranges you’d find the Reach AR is the much more reliable weapon at any range over its precursors. They have equal kill times in theory, but because the Halo3 AR is much less precise, even at the ranges shown in the linked video, the AR is still going to miss a lot of shots around the enemy because the AR in CE and H3 both shot outside of their reticles. The Reach AR not only has a tighter burst shot than the previous ARs, it doesn’t shoot outside of its reticle.

You know why? Because in a balanced sandbox, if a fullauto weapon is to loose precision with sustained fire, a semi-auto must loose precision with rapid-fire.

But the thing is, the assault rifle has no advantage to other weapons in close range because it kills just as slow as they do! Not only that, once you get outside of short range the other weapons are STILL able to kill you relatively easily while the assault rifle faces significant difficulties thanks to its bloom!

Despite its poor accuracy the halo 3 AR was stronger than reach’s. It filled its role as a CQB weapon perfectly, dealing more damage than the BR could in close range. Reach’s AR isn’t strong enough to fill the same role, and is easily replaced by weapons like the DMR or the needle rifle in the same range. the AR needs SOMETHING to make it stand out, either a slight firepower boost to make it become a better CQB weapon or an accuracy boost to be more versatile (i’m more for the former, honestly).

I believe you are factually in error. The reason the AR in Reach takes 18 not 16 bullets to kill is because of how more effective beyond melee range it is compared to H3.
Because the spread is more controllable with the Reach AR, you will hit more often than the Halo3 AR as you increase range. As you decrease range and increase the sustained firing time, the Reach AR will always shoot inside its reticle. The Halo3, like the CE, can fire shots outside of its reticle after I think its 1.5 seconds of sustained fire. Meaning all 3 weapons down shields with very decent precision but it is only the Reach AR that fires with any sort of reliable precision after the shields are down due to sustained fire. A player has to be in melee range for the H3-AR to kill more effectively than the Reach AR. Of course the CE AR shreds both the H3 and Reach ARs if in optimal firing range.

And of course the AR doesn’t give you an advantage outside of CQB. It’s not suppose to. It’s suppose be there when you spawn and be your CQB weapon.
Your Pistol in your ranged spawning weapon. It isn’t suppose maintain any type of precision when rapid-fired. Nor is it suppose to have the ammo reserve to be the awesome CQB weapon it could be with a few more bullets.

The Shotgun, Sword, Hammer, Grenade-Launcher and Concussion-Rifle are suppose to be your more dominating CQB weapons. The last 2 being special cases of CQB style of course. The CR is dangerous to its user at melee range or if the user’s team is in the splash zone. And the GL leaves its user very vulnerable if the first shot misses, least alone the problem of a ricocheting explosive bouncing around an enclosed room.

but right now there IS no benefit for using the AR, even in CQB. it has too few bullets to kill more than one person, doesn’t kill people faster than most other weapons in CQB, and it constantly loses to doublepunch. I’d like it if all the weapons were balanced, not just a few overshadowing the rest… a weapon being added in to be purposefully weak is a waste of a weapon, honestly.

i’m not saying it should become a one-shot weapon like the shotgun or sword, i’m saying that i’d pretty underpowered right now and it needs SOME sort of improvement.

I understand to a degree what you mean. I believe the Halo3 Flamethrower and any detachable-LMG is about the idea of what you want, but in a starting weapon. Maybe being given the Focus-Rifle as a starter.

That or screw the basic weapons. Let’s have a war where nothing but the heavy or powerweapons are brought to the battle. If it doesn’t kill in 1 or 2 hits, or in less than half a second, it isn’t worthy of being brought.

The irony is see in the second paragraph is that we might as well be regular soldiers using basic weapons if we are to be super-soldiers using super-weapons instead.

To which I think ODST and Spartan FPS Halo titles should run side by side. One where the weapons are as deadly as they are intended to be and one where the players are as durable as they are suppose to be.

You’ve got me all wrong, man. I just want a slight increase in the power of the assault rifle, thats all. “Slight” being 1 or 2 less bullets to kill, not giving it the strength of a light machine gun and completely wreck enemies. I’d be fine with making the thing do more damage against unshielded spartans than it does now too. i just feel like the thing is too weak even for a “starting” weapon… i’m not saying the thing should become a killing machine, jeez.

i’d like for it to be able to kill a person without reloading, which, right now, it’s 2 bullets short of being able to do.